Fox form veno need advice for genie skills

Exude - Harshlands

Who can help to choose genie skills? I'm fox form build; I need some amp and atack speed genie skills. I'm think about Wind Shield, Extreme Poison, Tangling Mire, and Relentless Courage.
First Trangling Mire - 35% Physical defense reduction. Extreme Poison 20% more damage on target. So, if I choose Trangling Mire, I do 15% more dmg than Extreme poison? Which is better genie skill to take more dmg on target?
For dps I can't choose between Wind Shield and Recentless Courage. How much atack speeds give these buffs, if my veno has 1.25 attack/s? And which skill better in your opinion?

Exude - Harshlands

Why I can't delete other threads? Some1 do it!

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

I haven't played around with wind shield or relentless courage, so can't comment on them.

Extreme poison is single target, and the increased damage curse it gives stacks with other amps and benefits from higher dex (the amp time increases with increased genie dex.) It has a short cooldown. I have it on a dex/mag genie. If you're squadded with a bunch of casters, this is the one to use.

Tangling mire is AOE pdef debuff which stacks with other debuffs, and the %age of debuff increases with higher strength. It has a long (30 second) cooldown. I have it on a pure str genie. Use this if squadded with a bunch of melee types. Be cautious using this solo near non-aggroed mobs.

tweakz

Fox form isn't really a build: it's a play style.

Most of what you'll want is what other venos / toons want as well. Tangling Mire is more of a squad skill. You're not going to benefit from it as much when you only have 1 melee AoE that does significant dmg. It costs too much to use regularly as a solo skill but is still a great skill to have.

Extreme Poison again; you get more benefit per cost if used in squads.

You want a luring skill especially since your strength is going to be 1-1; so go with Zeal as primary. A healing skill (I'd base this off your build): a high HP -go with ToP, High Def - go with Second Wind. I'd then base your genie build (str vs dex) off your healing skill since aside from luring: healing will probably be most beneficial personal use from it.

Tangling Mire, and Extreme Poison are good skills for most to have for squad use. A wizard can use Tangling Mire even to boost the aggro / dmg of a melee tank. Tangling favors the Str build, and Poison the dex. Both would be nice to work off each other but they're mostly going to be used in squads and someone else can use the other in conjunction.

Absolute Domain is something anyone that doesn't use Expel will probably benefit from. It can be strung with Feral Concentration for a nice long immunity with mobility.

Most can also benefit from a chi recovery skill based on their genie build. There is Chi Siphon and Cloud Eruption.

Holy Path is another skill almost anyone should have.

-See, all those skills are good for just about anyone.

Mauntille - Heavens Tear

I had Relentless Courage on my genie for a long time, mainly for the extra -channel though. The % bonus you'll get is dependant on the extra stats you put on your genie (str/dex), so it'll vary from genie to genie. To be honest, I really didn't feel like it was worth it. The benefits were minimal and short lived for a high casting cost. I'd focus more on damage amplication skills (xpoison and mire) and defensive skills (ToP and Second Wind). I got more benefit from being able to spam Extreme Poison than I ever did from Relentless Courage. Also note that the damage amp skills benefit your pet and not just you.

If you plan on soloing/tanking bosses, you should probably look into interrupt skills as well. Earthquake is the most popular although some people like Lightning Chaser for the range it gives.

Tangling Mire is an excellent skill with the exception of it's animation. Its graphics can be quite taxing on some machines, even with all the graphic settings at the minimum. So if you are on such a machine or regularly play with someone who is, this may become a bit of an issue.

It's great to have a lure genie, but I don't think it's quite as essential for venos since we have other ways of luring. I love being able to individually pull 3 mobs at once safely (pet/stow, tame, Earthflame), but it's more useful in higher levels than it is in lower levels.

Also look for patterns in what you fight. If you like to grind on wood mobs that poison you, Nullify Poison might be worth getting. Or if you find that you're getting slept from the bosses you fight, you might like Adrenalline Surge.

tweakz

You're going to burn 7 seconds on ch/cast Tame Beast (fastest veno lure), then use a genie skill that might save 2-3s and cost more stamina? The lure skill made farming instances a lot less tedious for me.

I didn't think about Earthquake, but might be more useful specifically for foxform.

Mauntille - Heavens Tear

I didn't mean that Earthflame is not a more efficient lure, just that priorities have to be considered more at low levels. I would say that everyone should get it eventually. However, in lower levels, it's less crippling for a veno to not have it than for other classes.

In lower levels, you have fewer genie skill slots available, so I feel it's more worth it to expand your skill set at that time than to broaden your options for one specific task. Then there's also the consideration as to when luring needs to take place - bosses and some mobs. There are plenty of mobs that don't aggro, especially in the lower levels, making luring irrelevant. I just feel it's more worth your time in the lower levels to explore other skills and see what works best for you. It also means that you can go with any genie, instead of specifically a Zeal.

High levels - essential. Low levels - convenient, but not necessary.

The other skills give you more of an advantage in longer fights than just saving 2-3s and perfect stones are effectively free now since they're a dq point reward, so stamina shouldn't be an issue.

Mad__Skillz - Raging Tide

Tai chi is a very good skill if you solo alot, holy path only useful in squads...and even then we already have a speed buff so not high priority really.

Tai chi also heals so i'd say its a better all round skill to get, even more so if your genie is str build.

tweakz

I thought DQ points would destroy the Perfect Stone market but they haven't. Perfect Stones are far from free. If using DQ: you're paying (giving up) rep or some other reward you could use it for. Their value on the market is about 700 ea.

Tai Chi's effect is barely noticeable.

Some of the skills suggested aren't even available until higher levels, and Zeals are profitable to raise; not so much if missing Earth Flame.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Mauntille - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I didn't mean that Earthflame is not a more efficient lure, just that priorities have to be considered more at low levels. I would say that everyone should get it eventually. However, in lower levels, it's less crippling for a veno to not have it than for other classes.

The problem is Earthflame (the luring skill) is the default skill of the Zeal genie. If you remove it, there's no way to put it back. So if you want your genie to have it at higher levels, it has to have it at low levels too.

And if it's got it, might as well use it.

Mauntille - Heavens Tear

lol, when did I say to remove Earthflame? That would be stupid. The thought was to take advantage of what's available and play around with the skills to see what works best for you before settling in on a nice genie. I said that you don't have to focus on luring at early levels, meaning that there really isn't a need to go out of your way to get a Zeal. If you get one as your free genie, great, by all means practice with Earthflame in the early levels. If you don't, then you have a little extra flexibility to play around with skills.

As for useing DQ points for other rewards besides perfect stones, every DQ reward except for the pets can be bought from players in game. Wealth is wealth regardless of where it is. If you purchase perfect stones from players, you're spending coin that you could use for a wider variety of rewards than the DQ points can get you.

Yes Zeals are profitable to raise, but the ones that sell best are the ones with high lucky points and are either clean or have a good skill set. I was advocating using a cheap disposable genie to test things out. Use and abuse it and then decomp it and feed it into a Zeal to either sell or use.

tweakz

Mauntille - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lol, when did I say to remove Earthflame? That would be stupid.

That's about the equivalent of not starting with a Zeal in the first place. -Feeling stupid? Imho the Discipline Genie has some value for Wind Force but not nearly as much as Zeal.

The thought was to take advantage of what's available and play around with the skills to see what works best for you before settling in on a nice genie.

Ok, but they could get a second genie for that and they are here seeking advice on skills rather than wasting SP and other resources on a genie they might keep or that has some value.

Mauntille - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

That's about the equivalent of not starting with a Zeal in the first place. -Feeling stupid? Imho the Discipline Genie has some value for Wind Force but not nearly as much as Zeal.

No, I'm not feeling stupid. I see value using what's disposable while on your way to making/getting something permanent.

tweakz wrote: »

Ok, but they could get a second genie for that and they are here seeking advice on skills rather than wasting SP and other resources on a genie they might keep or that has some value.

So you would have someone make a permanent genie at the same time as a test genie, potentially altering the permanent genie with skills and affinity points that will later have to be reset? Coming to the forums and seeking advise is a great start, but all of the advise in the world can't compete with experiece. Knowing first hand what works for you and what doesn't is worth the cost of spirit to test things out on a test genie first.

Mad__Skillz - Raging Tide

tweakz wrote: »

Tai Chi's effect is barely noticeable.

Wrong.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

technically as a veno you shouldn't even really -NEED- a zeal in the first place <.<

Chi in foxform is easy peasy, as much as it is in human form. the chi skill is only handy if your dead set on always being able to spark, and in that case if your relying on your spark attack too much, somethings wrong.
Can see it being usefull in a FFC run, BUT even there chi is easily gained, specially for a veno.

Extreme poison is something i hardly see people use, but is sooooo droolable, it even stacks with HF and Amp. do i need to say more ?

Holy path ? a veno is already fast enough and even though i have it on mine, hardly use it. specially for the demon veno's, they run ... hella fast.