Vs Sins.

RuneSeeker - Harshlands

How are archers supposed to fight against sins?
I have a pretty good idea on how to fight every other class, except sins...
It usually ends 2 ways:
1: An assassin pops up from invisibility and starts attacking you... and you are forced to drop the soap while paralyzed/sleep/slowed.
2: An assassin teleports to you, paralyzes/sleeps/slows you and you're dead before you realize whats happening.
I feel like I'm just forced to watch the screen as I can't do anything and am getting sliced up.
Any strats on how to fight assassins without atleast getting totally owned?

Furries - Dreamweaver

if the sin is at all competent in any way you wont ever win.
their ganna talcking slash you so u cant run, their ganna rib strike so bow and fists are useless.

use occult ice and try to kill them b4 it wears off. if u dont then u lose

Teppeii - Dreamweaver

Sadly you won't be able to effectively fight sins till you're in your later levels. So when you get to such a point here's some tips that have helped me

If you get the jump and attack first you have a decent chance. Sins use light armor too so they have all the squishiness of archers. Stun -> metal combo works nicely.

If they attack you first, it's basically a matter of surviving their initial stunlock. Get Absolute Domain and pop it as soon as they unstealth next to you. Their stunlock lasts a second or two after maxed AD's duration so all I can say is use whatever means you can to survive the last two seconds. Unfortunately this requires having decent gears, no way around that.

After their first stun wears off, pop Elven Alacrity (Not Wings of Grace. You're immune to damage during cast but not stuns) and kite a decent distance. Then just use the aforementioned stun -> metal combo and you should do fine.

Course, charmed sins exist. And charmed sins tend to force stealth once they tick, but in my experience I found a way around that It takes quick reflexes, but once you see the sin's force stealth animation use Take Aim and fire it right as they disappear. The attack still reaches them and instantly knocks them out of stealth. Spiffy, yeah?b:cute

Anyhow, didn't mean for such a long post x.x but yeah, I tried to help. lol

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Teppeii - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It takes quick reflexes, but once you see the sin's force stealth animation use Take Aim and fire it right as they disappear. The attack still reaches them and instantly knocks them out of stealth. Spiffy, yeah?b:cute

Just out of interest, what sort of ping do you play with? Just wondering if it's possible for EU players. We have like 400 ms ping

Morty - Raging Tide

Its all to do with reflexes when it comes to Assassin vs Archers. even sins know this.

If you attack a sin first then yeah he will die no problem, even if the guy force stealths he will still have low HP and will probably just flee the area and come back when he is invis.

At this point soon as the sin shows up it helps to have that affliction fairy, and use its skill soon as the assassin shows up weather or not he has used rib strike this will get you distance then you can stun them and pew pew them.

But like I said, its all about reflexes, so now the sin will most likley dash at you causing you to be stunned, which if this is case every archer knows to use wings of grace, all in all it really is down to player skill. I've seen so many threads of archers complaining against sins but what you have to realise is a sin kills fast, and dies easy.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

You have three problems, when you fight assassins:

First, you need to survive long enough to take action. Genie skills can help here, but you also need good gear. If your gear is 1/5 the quality of the assassin's gear you will have a very difficult time. If you can survive long enough to use them, your level 79 skills can also give you a few extra seconds of action.

Second, if you can survive, you need to dish out enough damage to make a difference. Gear will help you here, again. Triple spark (which you will not have yet) will also help (and cleans up some of the debuffs they had landed on you, if you can survive long enough to triple spark).

Third, you need to somehow deal with them vanishing on you. Skills with channelling can help here. If you kill them after they vanish, you win. (Though that might change once earthguards show up.)

Finally, friends can help. Assassins are very powerful against a single target. But if you are in a decent squad, you have all sorts of possibilities that you would not have if you were alone, including some that involve squad use of AoEs. Though, even here, relative power still plays a role (for example: a coordinated squad of six assassins with absolute domain genies can be "immune to damage" for 24 seconds, and if they are willing to burn apothecaries they could bump that up to 36 seconds... but of course nothing about that option depends on class).

RuneSeeker - Harshlands

Thanks for the great tips guys! I never knew the Take Aim trick, so that's definitely going to help out b:victory
Now when being stunlocked, I know that genie skills are really useful. Which is better to cast when a sin pops up and attacks you first: Expel or occult ice? Occult ice seems kind of risky since it's only a percent chance that the target will be frozen, but expel will make me not take any of the sins phys dmg. Am I missing something?
Also, is holy path a good substitute until lv 79?

Zhadi - Archosaur

Teppeii - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Get Absolute Domain and pop it as soon as they unstealth next to you. Their stunlock lasts a second or two after maxed AD's duration so all I can say is use whatever means you can to survive the last two seconds.

I use AD for magic classes to resist a last hit or a one shot..
But for sins you're better off using expel. It resists physical attacks only but it's a much longer duration than AD.

Teppeii - Dreamweaver wrote: »

After their first stun wears off, pop Elven Alacrity (Not Wings of Grace. You're immune to damage during cast but not stuns).

Cmon now... seriously?
Grants Invincibibility... that includes stuns, attacks, debuffs, everything.
You're just timing it wrong or you're getting stunned during "Casting Time"

The secret to killing a sin is just surviving their initial attack. How do you do that?

Well, it depends how they start.

If they choose to start with a normal attack out of stealth mode: Jump up, run away, holy path, elven alacrity, whatever. Basically kite them, get to a safe point, stun, and do whatever combination works best for you to kill them.

If they start off with tackling slash: Wings of grace, stun, metal skills/wingspan/winged pledge, whatever. Also use Winged Shell wisely.

If they start off with a stun: Expel, run away, elven alacrity/wings of grace, whatever.

Carry around apothecary.
Detection Pots: obvious reasons
Tranquilizing Orbs/Ironguard Powders: Use these with Absolute Domain, or after your Wings of Grace/Elven Alacrity and you'll be invincible while not suffering from the stun effect.
Dew Stars: Reduces damage greatly = you can tank whatever.
Phy Damage Reduction Charms: Obvious reasons. Reduces p damage taken.

Practice, practice, practice.
Ask a sin friend to go out and give you a few PK fights.
1. its fun
2. gives you experience. experience = skill.
3. decreases reaction time / gives you better reflexes.

Teppeii - Dreamweaver

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

I use AD for magic classes to resist a last hit or a one shot..
But for sins you're better off using expel. It resists physical attacks only but it's a much longer duration than AD.

Ohh, right. Forgot about that. Would work too =P

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

Cmon now... seriously?
Grants Invincibibility... that includes stuns, attacks, debuffs, everything.
You're just timing it wrong or you're getting stunned during "Casting Time"

I didn't say it didn't grant invincibility against stuns. I even mentioned casting time. The simple fact is that it happens to be incredibly easy to stun an archer during the 4 seconds of flashy animation that makes you unable to move.b:surrender

SilverCleric - Lost City

Teppeii - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sadly you won't be able to effectively fight sins till you're in your later levels. So when you get to such a point here's some tips that have helped me

If you get the jump and attack first you have a decent chance. Sins use light armor too so they have all the squishiness of archers. Stun -> metal combo works nicely.

If they attack you first, it's basically a matter of surviving their initial stunlock. Get Absolute Domain and pop it as soon as they unstealth next to you. Their stunlock lasts a second or two after maxed AD's duration so all I can say is use whatever means you can to survive the last two seconds. Unfortunately this requires having decent gears, no way around that.

After their first stun wears off, pop Elven Alacrity (Not Wings of Grace. You're immune to damage during cast but not stuns) and kite a decent distance. Then just use the aforementioned stun -> metal combo and you should do fine.

Course, charmed sins exist. And charmed sins tend to force stealth once they tick, but in my experience I found a way around that It takes quick reflexes, but once you see the sin's force stealth animation use Take Aim and fire it right as they disappear. The attack still reaches them and instantly knocks them out of stealth. Spiffy, yeah?b:cute

Anyhow, didn't mean for such a long post x.x but yeah, I tried to help. lol

I see some flaws in your strategy but I don't want to give any sin's ideas...

ShineZ - Raging Tide

Expel work wonders here tho u only have probably one shot at it... as soon as they att u.. hit expel.. either they will get expelled and not be able to move or u get expelled and they cant rlly hit you... if you got good genie with vitality or good magic, u might be able to hit holy path after expel to run or use sutra power orb... basically u gonna need all the support from pot/genie/allies here...

Also it depends on ur gear too of corse.. if ur super OP, u can take more hits

then run and shoot.... if u cant run do metal shots

Zhadi - Archosaur

ShineZ - Raging Tide wrote: »

Expel work wonders here tho u only have probably one shot at it... as soon as they att u.. hit expel.. either they will get expelled and not be able to move or u get expelled and they cant rlly hit you... if you got good genie with vitality or good magic, u might be able to hit holy path after expel to run or use sutra power orb... basically u gonna need all the support from pot/genie/allies here...

Also it depends on ur gear too of corse.. if ur super OP, u can take more hits

then run and shoot.... if u cant run do metal shots

I have a vit build genie so I can spam skills easily.
In fact, I have enough energy for 2 expels in a row.
This pisses sins off so much.

That's what I recommend for any PvP archer ^^

RuneSeeker - Harshlands

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

I have a vit build genie so I can spam skills easily.
In fact, I have enough energy for 2 expels in a row.
This pisses sins off so much.

That's what I recommend for any PvP archer ^^

How much energy would you recommend for a pvp genie?
Also, I've been fighting a lot more sins lately, some pking, some just friends for practice, and I've noticed that really, if I'm going to die, I'll die in the first 5 seconds of the fight, during which I'm under a bunch of debuffs. So yeah, just like its been said, you just need to survive the first few seconds then kite some ground and you're gold.
I've checked out a few of Transcend's pvp vids and she makes it look so easy b:chuckle

Teppeii - Dreamweaver

RuneSeeker - Harshlands wrote: »

How much energy would you recommend for a pvp genie?
Also, I've been fighting a lot more sins lately, some pking, some just friends for practice, and I've noticed that really, if I'm going to die, I'll die in the first 5 seconds of the fight, during which I'm under a bunch of debuffs. So yeah, just like its been said, you just need to survive the first few seconds then kite some ground and you're gold.
I've checked out a few of Transcend's pvp vids and she makes it look so easy b:chuckle

Lolsauce.

RuneSeeker - Harshlands

Teppeii - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lolsauce.

The toon's a she. I just like calling people by their toons.

Evict - Heavens Tear

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

I have a vit build genie so I can spam skills easily.
In fact, I have enough energy for 2 expels in a row.
This pisses sins off so much.

That's what I recommend for any PvP archer ^^

Sealing yourself for 18 seconds isn't the least bit detrimental to me beating you or any other archer who does it, ijs.

Teppeii - Dreamweaver

Evict - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sealing yourself for 18 seconds isn't the least bit detrimental to me beating you or any other archer who does it, ijs.

Is it lonely up there on that pedestal you put yourself upon?

RuneSeeker - Harshlands

RuneSeeker - Harshlands wrote: »

Which is better to cast when a sin pops up and attacks you first: Expel or occult ice? Occult ice seems kind of risky since it's only a percent chance that the target will be frozen.

RuneSeeker - Harshlands wrote: »

How much energy would you recommend for a pvp genie?

I still have two questions about the topic, if anyone would be so kind as to answer.

Teppeii - Dreamweaver

RuneSeeker - Harshlands wrote: »

I still have two questions about the topic, if anyone would be so kind as to answer.

Expel. And at least 145.

ArchSaber - Sanctuary

RuneSeeker - Harshlands wrote: »

she makes it look so easy b:chuckle

1. I heard Transcend is a G.I.R.L

2. When you try her way of kiting at level 90+, you will be surprised how it wasn't as hard as you thought.

3. When I used to play Archer, I fought a lot of Assassins and won. Simply because a lot of the Assassins I fought never used their Anti-Stun. So what I do is I fly and wait for them to strike. Right when I see him pop out, I use Absolute Domain and use level 10 Aim Low. I quickly fly down and shoot him to death with my crappy soulsmasher. b:victory And If he gets lucky with Focused Mind(or whatever it's called) and takes 1 damage for a few hits. Use Stunning Arrow. Most Sins won't react fast enough to switch to their bow, or most sins don't even have a bow.

Lono_archer - Sanctuary

how do u defeat sins??????????

Pray!!!b:thanks

RuneSeeker - Harshlands

I'm going to be getting expel soon and I'm just wondering if it's more useful to cast expel on yourself or on the sin that's attacking you.
I'm thinking casting expel on yourself is only good when the sin sparks or it's an air battle where you can kite by falling down, while casting expel on a sin in the beginning of a battle is good because you won't be hit with all those nasty debuffs while you use some metal attacks against him.
Correct or am I missing something?

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Half-decent sins will have the PK filter 'screen neutral buffs' turned on, thus meaning that expel will not affect them.

Teppeii - Dreamweaver

RuneSeeker - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm going to be getting expel soon and I'm just wondering if it's more useful to cast expel on yourself or on the sin that's attacking you.
I'm thinking casting expel on yourself is only good when the sin sparks or it's an air battle where you can kite by falling down, while casting expel on a sin in the beginning of a battle is good because you won't be hit with all those nasty debuffs while you use some metal attacks against him.
Correct or am I missing something?

Most people these days are smart enough to have their buff filters turned on.