Sin survivability & gea

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver

I see a LOT on these forums about the 5aps sins and the way to get there.

But, getting all that will cost an arm & a leg IF you're willing to spend that much to reach it.

How about other builds ? Other armor combinations ? Getting 5aps might be nice, but it's nearly unobtainable for most regular players and those below lvl 100.

My questions are as follows :

1. how much HP does a sin need to have to be able to survive instances above lvl 80 ?

2. is it worthwile to refine the Hook & Thorn daggers since they will in all likelyhood be used till Nirvana, so from lvl 80 till 99 at least ? I'm not gonna do 80 =>99 in just 3 months....

3. If you're not planning on going the 5 aps road, is the TT 80 and later TT90 (ALL 4 socketed) the best way to go ? I'm keeping my rank 4 chestpiece and will change to rank 6 at lvl 90, so i still have some nice -int combined.

And lastly : what the hell drops the mold for Bracers of blood Moon ?? They're freakin hard to find, IF you find any at all.

Thx.

LeiMai - Raging Tide

Uhh I'm not a typical pure dex sin, but if I had to guess I'd say 3500hp+ unbuffed from 80 on..all from gear, not vit. But it might be lower than that, I'm really not sure!

If you are more concerned with survivability (like myself) I would suggest you look into investing in a nice helm and cape.

★Cape of Tauran Chieftain
★Helm of Aqua Viciousness

Thats what I used at 80ish. Cape can be kind of pricy (several million, I think I paid maybe 3mil for mine). The helm was my barb husband's old one, so I had to restat some strength for it. But I like having more survivability.

If you want free(cheap?) -int gear theres a farmable cape from level 60-80 I think, from Wraithgate. Others could tell you more about it but if you're a low enough level its probably a good idea.

I think I was told not to go past like +3 or +4 for Hook and Thorn, I went to +2 but I've decided to upgrade at 90. You can get to +3 or even +4 with just mirages if you're lucky!

Pretty sure alot of people kinda skip TT80. At 80 I believe I was using:
★Blood Bracers of Fang (Legendary 79 LA)
★Swiftwind Boots (TT70 Green)
★Dark Shinguards of Hades (Legendary 69 LA)
★Counterstream Armor (Rank chest)

I ended up getting the Gold TT80 pants cheap, so I used those/use those now. Focus on better gear for 90.

This is a pretty typical gear I think for 90: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a7e1a0add01bce5d but I'm guessing on some pieces. My original 90 plans were similar to that, but I've gone for some..higher end survivability gear. But it is pretty pricy and I don't want to assume anything...The 2 pieces of TT90 Gold are for the dex bonus, but the gold boots require GBAs which are too expensive...and the green boots give MP recovery to help with stealth.

Don't totally avoid the aps road, even if 5aps isn't your goal/isn't possible for you (Sage). More aps = more damage = more HP back on Bloodpaint lol.

That mold is a DQ mold: http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/quest/8464 I'm told its about 13mil. But I believe they can be resold. You could also look for a random set of bracers with an -int bonus.

Think I got your all your questions, but some people who know better might correct me/hopefully will if I'm wrong about anything b:chuckle

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver

Well, atm i'm at 4.4K HP unbuffed , using TT80 pants, boots and braces, each 4 socketed. As helmet i'm using a 3* Helmet also 4 sockets. So i think i'm good there.

I already have the tauran cape (4 socks) Everything is refined to +3, my Hook&Thorn to +4.

The reason i went with TT80 is because it isn't my main and i'm equipping my sin to the best of my "income" and possibilities.

Also , i like the extra adds on the TT, esp resistances. But i am keeping the counterstream rank gear until 90.

That dq mold is pretty expensive....think i'm gonna skip that one, lol.

Thx.

LeiMai - Raging Tide

well it sounds like you're all set then b:laugh I only have about 4.3k hp unbuffed at level 87, but I also only have 3 base vit.

Did you do a hybrid build?

_Leif - Lost City

Honestly I always thought the DQ mold was way overhyped. Just rush to 90 and get the 90 gold bracers (requires the decomped 80 bracers, which require the 70 decomped bracers) which are significantly cheaper than the DQ mold. That alone (with demon spark) gets you to 2 aps. With rank chest and hook and thorn you'll be at 2.22, which is a respectable amount of interval for a casual player. IF you manage to get a -int cape, it may be a good idea to trade in your hook and thorn for the 85 frost daggers, as your aps will be the same as hook and thorn, but your dps and dph will be quite higher.

If you're not planning to hit 100 and farm your way into HH99/NV/rank gear, this is your engame gear.

TT 90 legs, sky demon's pearl, frostcore pendant, attendance ring, misty forest ring (pvp)/ring of heavenly lord (pve)/rank ring (pve), and either TT 90 boots or preferably decently statted OHT boots are solid (and cheap) choices for 9x gear. The helmet choice is up to. I know a lot of people go for the helm of aqua visciousness, but I personally did not want to sacrifice the dex to equip it, so I went with the 85 gold frost helm: http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/16009. The HP bonus on refining is equivalent to a regular helmet, though the str requirement is that of an arcane hat. Not to mention the +6 mp regen combined with my other gear allows me to permanently be in stealth without losing mana. Another choice is a tourny helm for 10 mil or so.

Also, refining anything up to +4 requires nothing more than a few tienkang stones, which means all of your gear should be refined to +4. Gold is expensive, but you can also farm DQ points, trade in for the demon/sage card, and buy them from event boutique. Shards should be at least flawless citrine (preferably immac if you can afford it).

You won't kill any NV geared barbs, but you'll be fairly decent in PvP and beast in PvE.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

_Leif - Lost City wrote: »

Honestly I always thought the DQ mold was way overhyped. Just rush to 90 and get the 90 gold bracers (requires the decomped 80 bracers, which require the 70 decomped bracers) which are significantly cheaper than the DQ mold. That alone (with demon spark) gets you to 2 aps. With rank chest and hook and thorn you'll be at 2.22, which is a respectable amount of interval for a casual player. IF you manage to get a -int cape, it may be a good idea to trade in your hook and thorn for the 85 frost daggers, as your aps will be the same as hook and thorn, but your dps and dph will be quite higher.

Personally, the DPS difference between Hook and Thorn and Ghost Cry Thorn, at +5, might be insignificant enough to warrant actually using Ghost Cry Thorn due to the proc it has.

As for the bolded, you are forgetting that Hook and Thorn still has the -0.05, so it's DPS will still be higher. Unless, of course, the Ghost Cry Thorn has an unfairly high refine or shards in comparison.

The helmet choice is up to. I know a lot of people go for the helm of aqua visciousness, but I personally did not want to sacrifice the dex to equip it, so I went with the 85 gold frost helm: http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/16009. The HP bonus on refining is equivalent to a regular helmet, though the str requirement is that of an arcane hat.

Shining Snow Helmet, at least on my server, is pretty rare. And all gold FC gear is pretty expensive. And that helmet has a sucky starting life. However, if you manage to get it with 4 sockets, it'll be superior to Helmet of Lion Spirit. Otherwise, I'd pick Helmet of Lion Spirit.

Also, refining anything up to +4 requires nothing more than a few tienkang stones, which means all of your gear should be refined to +4. Gold is expensive, but you can also farm DQ points, trade in for the demon/sage card, and buy them from event boutique. Shards should be at least flawless citrine (preferably immac if you can afford it).

WarrenWolfy's online refine sheet gives an average cost of 507,752 coins for +4 if you assume Tienkangs are free, which they would be if you got them with DQ points.

And I, too, plan to use any remaining DQ points for the Demon/Sage Event card for Tienkangs and Tishas.

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver

Also, refining anything up to +4 requires nothing more than a few tienkang stones, which means all of your gear should be refined to +4.

Well, as far as refines go, i got my Hook & Thorn to +5 where it will stay. I don't believe anything more is needed there.

For my gear i chose TT80 specifically because i could make it all on my main and i already had some of the mats, not all though ., All is at +3.

Did you do a hybrid build?

No.Pure dex.

I always shard my gear with the next lvl of shards as well. Meaning Immacs/4 sockets on ALL pieces. The only thing i used perfect shards on (2) was on my weapon, because i believe that more dmg = faster kills. Weapon comes first in my book.

Just rush to 90 and get the 90 gold bracers

I am planning on going with the General's bracers at lvl 90, which give me another -int. I need the TT80 bracers for that, so that's why i got em.

With rank chest and hook and thorn you'll be at 2.22

That was my general idea too. Bracers, Rank chest , H&T. I am not planning on getting that cape though. I think that with my intention, 2.22 should be very nice with a very good survivability.

As for helmet, i chose the lower lvl helmet i got now because not only does it have 200+ extra Hp, it has some nice adds on it. Refined to +3 as well it serves its purpose till i can afford & find something better. 3* gear is often just as good and less expensive.

For pure grinding purposes and farming DQ, i use a bow : Soulsmasher. Made that one from my old Unicorn.

I "think" i'm pretty well set for the next levels b:pleased

Thx for the input.

Typhyse - Sanctuary

It's ridiculous how the price of Cape of TC has skyrocketed. I got mine in my 60s I believe, severl months ago, as a mold and paid 2.5mil. Everyone told me I got robbed.
Now...now I see them going for as high as 6mil 0.o;;

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver

At 2.5Mill for a Tauran mold, you made a bargain.

First, imo the best cape pre Cape of Elite Leather, not counting the super expensive Wings of cloudcharger (mostly seriously overpriced)

Second, its not that hard or expensive to get 4 sockets on it. Filled with Immacs, it will last you a LONG time.

Third, the mold doesn't drop that much either. If it did, nearly everyone at 69+ would wear one (Well, they should).

Lastly, between gold prices and the cash currently on the market, prices for some things will naturally rise with that.

I'm using a Tauran on each of my toons, and trust me, they're worth every penny. Although i got mine as drops b:chuckle

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

First, imo the best cape pre Cape of Elite Leather, not counting the super expensive Wings of cloudcharger (mostly seriously overpriced)

I can give you at least 3 capes better than either of those:
Energetic Robe: Lunar Glade (level 90)
Energetic Robe: Wraithgate (level 60)
Any cape with 4 sockets and 2x HP mods, such as my level 87 cape with HP+80, HP+80 and Dex +4

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

I can give you at least 3 capes better than either of those:
Energetic Robe: Lunar Glade (level 90)
Energetic Robe: Wraithgate (level 60)
Any cape with 4 sockets and 2x HP mods, such as my level 87 cape with HP+80, HP+80 and Dex +4

1. he was talking PRE lvl 90.... so lunar glade is out.

2. Wraithgate : need to get 10 gold medals in throphy mode, its not a drop either, unless you got a very good SQ good luck with that one.(and its very pricey)

3. i don't see "any" cape with +250 MagRes/hp-mp recovery ....at the same lvl requirement either.

Unless you find a cape with about the same stats on it or you do "successful" throphy mode runs, the Tauran is still the best cape pre 90+. I don't see myself socketing "any" cape with 4 immacs(or higher) either. Unless it has unusually high stats on it and it's a 3* one.

Oc, you can always invest an insane amount of cash and get the cloudcharger, refine it to +12 and socket it with the highest shards possible....

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

2. Wraithgate : need to get 10 gold medals in throphy mode, its not a drop either, unless you got a very good SQ good luck with that one.(and its very pricey)

Um, a few mistakes there:
1. It's 8 Gold Medals.
2. It's not really that hard.
3. It's not that expensive, it's actually 600,000 per run.

What my squad does we have 4 level 60-80 characters and 2 high level DDs. Each of the 60-80 characters pays 200,000 coins, out of which 50,000 goes to the DDs as a payment for being there. That means that if you succeed at all 8 runs, the cape costs you 1,600,000. That's about 1/30 of what Energetic Robe: Lunar Glade costs.

Looking at the squads that we run with, we have usually about the following:
An expensive barb (He's the organizer of the runs)
A regular cleric
A regular Wizard/Archer
A regular Sin (me)
Level 100 5 aps Sin (Faction mate of the organizer)
Level 95+ DD (often from WC, so the gear varies)

Normally, our runs are extremely smooth with nothing wrong. Only when the barb lags, do things get messy. After all, he does pulls of about 20+ mobs at a time, so him dying is kinda bound to make things go wrong.

3. i don't see "any" cape with +250 MagRes/hp-mp recovery ....at the same lvl requirement either.

The mag res itself is useless for an Assassin outside of PvP. The recoveries also, unless you're looking to perma-stealth.

Unless you find a cape with about the same stats on it or you do "successful" throphy mode runs, the Tauran is still the best cape pre 90+. I don't see myself socketing "any" cape with 4 immacs(or higher) either. Unless it has unusually high stats on it and it's a 3* one.

4 Immaculates is actually pretty cheap, it's what, 3,000,000 coins? It starts looking really cheap when all of your gear is +3 with 4 Flawlesses in it.

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

That means that if you succeed at all 8 runs

that's indeed a big IF. "Usually" it doesn't get that smooth. And try finding 4 Capable lvl 60-80"s who can do it without any errors. If you got a good squad, so much the better, but usually they're hard to come by. By the time you find one that's willing to do all 8 runs you've probably lvld already.

The mag res itself is useless for an Assassin outside of PvP. The recoveries also, unless you're looking to perma-stealth.

So MagRes is useless ? Obviously you've never fought against bosses with a Matk or get ganged by several mobs with MagAtk.

As for PvP (i'm on pve server so that means TW) i love the extra MagDef. Esp when you encounter high enuf wizzies and clerics who know what they're doing. And in TW you go stealth a LOT. Otherwise you're just a noobie cannonfodder talking out of your a..

4 Immaculates is actually pretty cheap, it's what, 3,000,000 coins? It starts looking really cheap when all of your gear is +3 with 4 Flawlesses in it.

Euhmmmm....what ? So you are going to spend between 2.8 and 3.6mill (at standard prices for immacs) on a simple cape that might have cost you around 500K in AH, or making it for that price, knowing that it will soon be replaced by a better cape ?

Because don't tell me you're gonna keep an npc (1/2/3*) cape till you're lvl 90+....

In the end, look at the shops , the AH. How many wraithcapes you see in there ? If it all was so easy as you make it seem, there would be much more robes in use.
I've seen a lot of chars, and so far, i can count the number of em wearing one on 1 hand.

Wake up man, just look at all the normal bh69 runs. How many people make mistakes in there ? Do you really believe that all those people can do trophy runs within their own faction ? Even so, i see a LOT of people running around with crappy gear. For a trophy mode you need to be decently equipped for starters, otherwise you're just gonna mess things up. Or do you go in with a crappy equipped cleric ?

Please refrain from commenting again till you reach maturity, thx.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

that's indeed a big IF. "Usually" it doesn't get that smooth. And try finding 4 Capable lvl 60-80"s who can do it without any errors. If you got a good squad, so much the better, but usually they're hard to come by. By the time you find one that's willing to do all 8 runs you've probably lvld already.

It's not that hard. You just need a capable cleric and a capable barb. The others don't really matter to the successfulness of the run. That, and the high level DDs.

I've stayed on level 80 exactly because someone I know does a lot of TMs.

So MagRes is useless ? Obviously you've never fought against bosses with a Matk or get ganged by several mobs with MagAtk.

Fighting MagAtk mobs as a melee-range is silly, especially since doing quests kinda stops being relevant after 40.

Bosses with Magic Attack might be another deal, but 250 magic resistance won't save you if you died without it.

Euhmmmm....what ? So you are going to spend between 2.8 and 3.6mill (at standard prices for immacs) on a simple cape that might have cost you around 500K in AH, or making it for that price, knowing that it will soon be replaced by a better cape ?

Already did that. I bought the said cape (1* Chromacy Cape, HP+80, HP+80, Dex +4) as 2 sockets at 300k. I then spent about 700,000 to refine it to +3, then about 1,500,000 to add 4 sockets, and finally 800,000 to add 4 Flawlesses to it. That puts the total costs at about 3,300,000 for the whole thing. Before that, I used a +3, 4 Flawless Cape of Tauran Chieftain. The reason being that I counted that I'd have to get pretty damn good stats and refine quite high on a Cape of Elite Leather for it to have the same amount of +life as my cape had.

Because don't tell me you're gonna keep an npc (1/2/3*) cape till you're lvl 90+....

Used a 1* level 87 Cape on my 92 Archer until I stopped playing him.

In the end, look at the shops , the AH. How many wraithcapes you see in there ? If it all was so easy as you make it seem, there would be much more robes in use.
I've seen a lot of chars, and so far, i can count the number of em wearing one on 1 hand.

Energetic Robe: Wraithgate has a lot of problems:
1. It can only be gotten by someone who is lvl 60-80.
2. It cannot be traded in any form whatsoever, except via Account Stash.
3. Most people don't even know about Trophy Mode.

And btw, the squad that I do TM with would now have 3/6 members with the cape, since the barb uses Wings of Cloudcharger, he does have 2 capes already though.

Wake up man, just look at all the normal bh69 runs. How many people make mistakes in there ? Do you really believe that all those people can do trophy runs within their own faction ? Even so, i see a LOT of people running around with crappy gear. For a trophy mode you need to be decently equipped for starters, otherwise you're just gonna mess things up. Or do you go in with a crappy equipped cleric ?

Well, the people we have are all pretty normally equipped with the exception of the DDs and the Barb. Me, I got flawless shards in my stuff with at most +3 refines. The DDs, being usually 95+, obviously have good gear. The Barb, on the other hand, has spent about 80,000,000 to get where he is, but he might be a bit overgeared in certain sections. And his armors are green TT80s with 4 Immaculate Citrines in them.

And for the record, I got into the TM squad by PMing the guy and asking if I could go and he told me to get to 80, get decent gear and level up the relevant skills. Believe me, if there is a squad that does TMs on any server and they have open spots, they'll rather take someone, train them to be good and make them a regular than pick someone random from WC.

And btw, I only say that Cape of Tauran Chieftain is bad because it's really expensive for the mods you get on it. Energetic Robe: Wraithgate is endgame level, and being a TM cape, it's a highly luxurious item. I'd still prefer a cape with 4 sockets and a HP mod over Cape of Tauran Chieftain.

Please refrain from commenting again till you reach maturity, thx.

Please refrain from trying to ad hominem your way to "victory".

b:cute

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver

4 Immaculates is actually pretty cheap, it's what, 3,000,000 coins? It starts looking really cheap when all of your gear is +3 with 4 Flawlesses in it.

Already did that. I bought the said cape (1* Chromacy Cape, HP+80, HP+80, Dex +4) as 2 sockets at 300k. I then spent about 700,000 to refine it to +3, then about 1,500,000 to add 4 sockets, and finally 800,000 to add 4 Flawlesses to it

You should really try to read your own posts. First you're making it sound that immacs are pretty cheap, letting me and probably others to believe you put that on your cape, then you state you added flawless to it, making it cheaper.

Fyi: Immacs > Flawless.

4 immacs = 4*50 hp = 200 hp
4 flawless = 4*40 hp = 160 hp

Insert 4 immacs on chest, pads, boots and bracers = 800 hp, where as using flawless : 640 hp. Difference = 160 hp.

If you're so obsessed about 160 HP on that cape, you could have used immacs instead of flawless citrines as well. Scoll up to the start of this post and you should have seen what kind of gear i have now and what my base hp is as a pure dex. And that's way before lvl 90.

Energetic Robe: Wraithgate has a lot of problems:
1. It can only be gotten by someone who is lvl 60-80.
2. It cannot be traded in any form whatsoever, except via Account Stash.
3. Most people don't even know about Trophy Mode.

THAT, is true. So my point of getting a GOOD sq together still remains. YOU migh have been so lucky, most aren't.

The Barb, on the other hand, has spent about 80,000,000 to get where he is, but he might be a bit overgeared in certain sections. And his armors are green TT80s with 4 Immaculate Citrines in them.

Now, seriously, how many of those you see around ? It's hard to find a barb nowadays to do instance runs, let alone a well geared one. Same deal with clerics.
My point still stands, by the time you find a good sq, you're already lvld. And for most it's all about the lvls in this game.

And back on original track, buying a TC for only 2.5 Mill to see it selling now at 6+ mill, the guy made a bargain. It's also not that +250 Magres is gonna save your a.. , but it makes a difference when being hit. Taking LESS damage = better survivability.
and that's what this whole post was about to begin with.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You should really try to read your own posts. First you're making it sound that immacs are pretty cheap, letting me and probably others to believe you put that on your cape, then you state you added flawless to it, making it cheaper.

Fyi: Immacs > Flawless.

4 immacs = 4*50 hp = 200 hp
4 flawless = 4*40 hp = 160 hp

Insert 4 immacs on chest, pads, boots and bracers = 800 hp, where as using flawless : 640 hp. Difference = 160 hp.

If you're so obsessed about 160 HP on that cape, you could have used immacs instead of flawless citrines as well. Scoll up to the start of this post and you should have seen what kind of gear i have now and what my base hp is as a pure dex. And that's way before lvl 90.

I added the flawlesses, but I was fully intending to add 4 Immaculates eventually. I also did the same with my Bracers of Blood Moon and my Helmet of Lion Spirit. Oh, and I'll probably also do that with my Rank 6 armor.

And btw, when all of your stuff is +3 and socketed full with Flawlesses, re-socketing to Immaculates to get more HP kinda starts being an option. In my case, I was literally at either +4'ing any of my pieces, re-socketing to Immaculates or spending 3m to add a third socket to my TT90s.

THAT, is true. So my point of getting a GOOD sq together still remains. YOU migh have been so lucky, most aren't.

Doesn't change the fact that Energetic Robe: Wraithgate is the best cape you can have 60-989 for an Assassin, with it being an alternative option for Energetic Robe: Lunar Glade for endgame purposes.

My point still stands, by the time you find a good sq, you're already lvld. And for most it's all about the lvls in this game.

And that's why we have so many fail level 100s. Such as the people asking about where to get Rank 8 gear on WC.