TW Solution

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

So it's been months since the TW update was released, and not once has any GM, Mod, or Dev even acknowledged our complaints, and the "early GM response to TW changes" thread was never folowed up with a "GM solutions to TW changes" thread
So if they won't help us, then I figure we might as well start making ideas on our own.

So here's the format; I'm going to designate a problem with the new TW system, and then attempt to give a solution for it.
Don't like my ideas? Give me some -constructive- critisicm, and pherhaps even a solution of your own. If it seems reasonable and others think you're onto something, then I'll add it to this post and give you props.

Problem 1: No refund for bidding on land
Solution 1: I'm starting with this problem, simply because it was the most poorly thought out part of the update there was. The reasoning behind it? "We don't want fake bidding." Well way to go, you eilminated fake bidding (since when was this such a problem anyways?). But in doing so, you also eliminated the possibility of smallers factions to attempt to start TWing. And on top of that, if someone outbids you, then you lose all your money. So a big faction could actually outbid a threatning faction to take up a time slot, AND waste that other faction's money.
So the solution for this problem? Remove it altogether, or give us a REAL reason as to why this should stay.

Problem 2: TW payout
Problem 3: Strong factions strangling the map
Now the reason they gave us for decreasing TW payout was too stop the problem of inflation. Now we could argue all day that inflation is caused by packs, but that's not the point here.

Solution 2: I think both the above problems could be solved with one thing: Wiping the map every 3 months. Why do that?
For one, it gives everybody a chance to own territory and experience NPC tw's. Also, until the strongest fac takes all the territory again, it let's the smaller facs fight it out. It also gives smallers facs the ability to recruit better. People can press the map button, and see what factions are activley trying to become the best.
Now before all the people from the best facs QQ, let me explain some fine details of the solution: Your faction would still recieve the regular marriage payout. TW's would actually mean something now- no more defenses where you just go through the motions. And best of all- at the end of the 3 months, all factions holding land are given double the amount of payout IN COIN that they would had recieved prior to the update.
You also may of noticed that I said that the map resets every 3 months, as opposed to when a faction owns all the land- this is so that a mega-fac doesnt keep the map from resetting by allowing another fac to hold a piece of land.

Another Solution to Problem 2: All individuals in a faction recieve "X" number of DQ points per week per territory owned. -Borsuc
Any ideas on how much DQ points any territory should give? Keep in mind that different Tier'd land should give varying amount of DQ points.

that's all for now, post, reply, and let the idea's fly.
Feel free to tell me all my ideas rock or suck, just make sure to leave a reason as to why.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Um, you do realize that a single faction can only attack once a week?

Wiping the map every 3 months would mean that any faction would have at most 12 lands at the time.

And wiping the map would pretty much result in no TW pay, which was the biggest complaint about the change of the TW pay. So then you'd end up having to bump up the prices, which would result in some no-name faction holding a single land for the full 3 months and receiving massive loads of coins for it.

And really, the factions that do hold lots of land for lots of time don't just do it with numbers and coins, they have experience and better strategies. And because they're better, they get all the good players.

And the no refunds acts as a pretty good coin sink, btw.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

And really, the factions that do hold lots of land for lots of time don't just do it with numbers and coins, they have experience and better strategies. And because they're better, they get all the good players.

Tbh I think it's more of a snowball effect than good stragedy. Good fac beats another good fac afew times, and suddenly all the sheep are flocking to the good fac.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Simple solution. Change TW pay to Dragon Points.

QQ about not affording charms? Get event gold with it.
QQ about breaking economy? Everything is bound from there.
QQ about inflation? No coin injected into the economy.

and lastly

Want rank9 medal to show off? Get it with Dragon Points of course!




and add Dragon Orbs to the DQ points and make them combine-able or just give us option for all types of D.Orbs b:angry

Only issue is finding how to distribute these dragon points, because we all know can't give them all to leader... lol

Aesthor - Heavens Tear

How many times did I tell myself not to read a thread that is titled as "solution".... -_-

Scandalous - Dreamweaver

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Simple solution. Change TW pay to Dragon Points.

QQ about not affording charms? Get event gold with it.
QQ about breaking economy? Everything is bound from there.
QQ about inflation? No coin injected into the economy.

and lastly

Want rank9 medal to show off? Get it with Dragon Points of course!




and add Dragon Orbs to the DQ points and make them combine-able or just give us option for all types of D.Orbs b:angry

Only issue is finding how to distribute these dragon points, because we all know can't give them all to leader... lol

I like this idea, as long as the Dragon points get sent to individual people :P

Loltank - Harshlands

How about for every land you own, 50 dragon points are added to each faction member's account.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Since horns technically can still be used, and yet aren't in the cash shop, the winning TW faction should get 200 horns so everyone in their faction can spam horn chat. Then, could really get to see people whine on the forum about TW -- which is way more entertaining than TW itself.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

and add Dragon Orbs to the DQ points and make them combine-able or just give us option for all types of D.Orbs b:angry

This is largely a pragmatic difficulty. The crafting (combining) system can only accept 1 type of material per recipe. So in order to allow combing of bound & non bound dragon orbs you end up with an exploding amount of new recipes needing to be added becoming a virtual labyrinth of recipes just to find the specific recipe you need. Simple example: 4x1* => 1x2*

Recipes needed:

---

4x1* unbound => 2* unbound
3x1* unbound + 1x1* bound => 2* bound (since they dont want Event orbs tradeable, they wont allow them to be combined, and then traded for any amount.)
2x1* unbound + 2x1* bound => 2* bound (see above)
1x1* unbound + 3x1* bound => 2* bound (see above)
4x1* bound => 2* bound (see above)

So now just for combing 1* to 2* they need 5 seperate recipes. Imagine the total number of recipes they'd have to add for all combination possibilities.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Simple solution. Change TW pay to Dragon Points.
l

me likes

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

How many times did I tell myself not to read a thread that is titled as "solution".... -_-

lol

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Since horns technically can still be used, and yet aren't in the cash shop, the winning TW faction should get 200 horns so everyone in their faction can spam horn chat. Then, could really get to see people whine on the forum about TW -- which is way more entertaining than TW itself.

lol

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is largely a pragmatic difficulty. The crafting (combining) system can only accept 1 type of material per recipe. So in order to allow combing of bound & non bound dragon orbs you end up with an exploding amount of new recipes needing to be added becoming a virtual labyrinth of recipes just to find the specific recipe you need. Simple example: 4x1* => 1x2*

Recipes needed:

---

4x1* unbound => 2* unbound
3x1* unbound + 1x1* bound => 2* bound (since they dont want Event orbs tradeable, they wont allow them to be combined, and then traded for any amount.)
2x1* unbound + 2x1* bound => 2* bound (see above)
1x1* unbound + 3x1* bound => 2* bound (see above)
4x1* bound => 2* bound (see above)

So now just for combing 1* to 2* they need 5 seperate recipes. Imagine the total number of recipes they'd have to add for all combination possibilities.

they could just make a way to trade regular orbs for DQ orbs.
but i dont mind not being able to compine regular with DQ too much

Yamiino - Heavens Tear

Problem 1: Stopped fake bidding, so it actually worked as intended.

Problem 2: TW pay changed because they wanna ninja your economy, nothing to do there. Call Chuck Norris to fix it.

Problem 3: Strong factions deserve the land they have for the simple reason of kicking everyone off it with their own hands. Wiping the map would just result on them taking all the map again and again and again which would be dumb to do over and over... not to mention people would complain of "problem 1" when spending so much on bidding b:chuckle



CHUCK NORRIS FIX ALL PLZ! b:shutup

SteelStar - Heavens Tear

Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »

How about for every land you own, 50 dragon points are added to each faction member's account.

I personally think this here is a good idea.

anwynd

i like both the op's ideas and the idea of giving DQP instead of coinb:victory

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »

How about for every land you own, 50 dragon points are added to each faction member's account.

waaait a sec, 50 dragon points? that's ~1.5 lvl91 dq items...
i get waay more by just doing the oht daily XD

and 50 points is a perfect stoneb:surrender

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »

How about for every land you own, 50 dragon points are added to each faction member's account.

That's a pretty horrible amount. That's like 2-3k per week if you hold the entire map which is like, almost nothing.

mortie

I believe it was an example, not an actual amount. Don't get hung up on it being 'just 50 points', the idea in itself is pretty good.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

So it's been months since the TW update was released, and not once has any GM, Mod, or Dev even acknowledged our complaints, and the "early GM response to TW changes" thread was never folowed up with a "GM solutions to TW changes" thread

Actually, you're wrong. There was. GM said they had observed the new changes being detrimental to TW on PWI and had forwarded their data and suggestions to PWE.

b:bye

Oh, BTW, the 'wiping the map every 3 months' idea is idiotic. That's 12 weeks. That doesn't even let one faction rule 1/4 of the map.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

I'd ask when people would stop QQing about TW, but that will likely happen. PWI can you please troll them by giving horns as a reward?

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Actually, you're wrong. There was. GM said they had observed the new changes being detrimental to TW on PWI and had forwarded their data and suggestions to PWE.

Can you give me the link please? I'd like to read the thread myself b:thanks

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Oh, BTW, the 'wiping the map every 3 months' idea is idiotic. That's 12 weeks. That doesn't even let one faction rule 1/4 of the map.

So do you think the whole concept is idiotic? or that the length should be extended to 5 months? 8months? a year?

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

So do you think the whole concept is idiotic? or that the length should be extended to 5 months? 8months? a year?

10 years. We're due up for a map reset in 2018!

TigerLily - Lost City

Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »

How about for every land you own, 50 dragon points are added to each faction member's account.

How about people that never attend TW shouldn't get any points tho lol. I mean i haven't been to a TW in months because i need the sleep atm, but getting free shiet for doing absolutely nothing is so wrong. People in a guild will be wasting millions on charms for TW while others dont do **** and all get same reward, that to unfair.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Bump

Thanks b:pleased

Michael_Dark - Lost City

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Can you give me the link please? I'd like to read the thread myself b:thanks

frankieraye wrote: »

I've been compiling data regarding the TW system for the past ~2 months since the changes were made, and you guys are right, there are significantly fewer wars per week than there used to be. We understand the importance of TW as the most enjoyable end-game activity, and this concern is something that we are bringing up with the devs.

I'm un-stickying this thread so that we can revert to the system of forum stickies being used solely for announcements.

So do you think the whole concept is idiotic? or that the length should be extended to 3 months? 8months? a year?

The map shouldn't be force reset.

DeLetar - Sanctuary

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Simple solution. Change TW pay to Dragon Points.

QQ about not affording charms? Get event gold with it.
QQ about breaking economy? Everything is bound from there.
QQ about inflation? No coin injected into the economy.

This actually seems like a really good idea.

I don't mind the map being reset every now and then. Three months sounds too little and a year might be too much. Six months? Maybe just reset it when it looks like a single faction is holding 40- 50% of the land. Barring a faction from holding more than one tier 3 land sounds good to me as well or more than two tier 2 lands.

As for no refund to losing to another faction, that was there as default. You only got money back if you won the fight.

sleepcat

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Problem 1: Stopped fake bidding, so it actually worked as intended.

I'm kinda curious as to whether to TW changes really did fix fake bidding because of no refunds, or that the new bidding system accomplishes what fake bidding intended to do so there is no need to fake bid at all. After all, fake bidding was originally done to prevent ganks right? Or is there something I'm missing?

Born_Free - Harshlands

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Oh, BTW, the 'wiping the map every 3 months' idea is idiotic. That's 12 weeks. That doesn't even let one faction rule 1/4 of the map.

There are two points to this....

One: The OP said it gives newer players and factions a chance to experience parts of the game, like NPC wars and ACTUALLY OWNING LAND. I mean, I know you've always been part of a land owning faction Mike, but think about people in circumstance other than your own.
I think we all can agree, that new factions with weaker levels, even if they recruit 70+ don't stand a d@mn chance in TW these days. It used to be different, but then again, a LOT of things were different back when we were 7x.

Two: 3 months I don't agree with because Mike makes a point; that's not enough time for large factions to take part of the map, and if your faction is strong enough to own several territories, they should be able to keep them.

BUT-- I DO agree that there should be a reset. New members need a chance to experience all the parts of the game; otherwise we're just continuing to breed a new generation of Hyper/Oracle fed nabs.

Six months is enough to take about half the map if a faction (Like Zulu/Calamity *COUGH*) is unstoppable. REALLY, ACTUALLY unstoppable. Like, as in you could gather every other high level not in that faction, and it STILL wouldn't be enough. That would be Zulu and Calamity as the main two culprits, in Dreamweaver and Harshlands, and several others which I don't know in other servers.
In fact, I think Archosaur is one of the few servers with more than five colors on the map.


I am up for lol's idea 150%. DQ points, ftw.
Wrong; you got your money refunded to you if you were outbidded, so nobody was freaking out if a larger faction outbid you because...you got it back anyway. This was a new addition, and it pissed off a lot of people.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

I think we all can agree, that new factions with weaker levels, even if they recruit 70+ don't stand a d@mn chance in TW these days. It used to be different, but then again, a LOT of things were different back when we were 7x.

No, nothing was different. Only the strong would be able to own any portion of the map. That's never changed.

Two: 3 months I don't agree with because Mike makes a point; that's not enough time for large factions to take part of the map, and if your faction is strong enough to own several territories, they should be able to keep them.

BUT-- I DO agree that there should be a reset. New members need a chance to experience all the parts of the game; otherwise we're just continuing to breed a new generation of Hyper/Oracle fed nabs.

TW isn't an aspect of the game designed for mid levels. It's considered end-game content. If any map should ever be reset it's because one faction has managed to take it all. There should be no other reason.

It's the hyper/oracle nubs who think they should just be able to TW without earning it.

You might as well just give one land to every faction that thinks they want one and have it permanently set to be owned by that one faction. Sounds stupid, eh? It should... it's as stupid a suggestion as any in this thread.

Kaste - Sanctuary

Nowdays it isn't even worth owning land, so stop QQing.
Can't win TW? Want to own land? Too bad go do some classic raids for your equip, go join the land owning faction, farm or give 'em your credit card, BUT PLEASE STOP THE ****ING QQ ALL THE ****ING TIME! By the name of god it is a frickin game, seriously. . .

Born_Free - Harshlands

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

No, nothing was different. Only the strong would be able to own any portion of the map. That's never changed.

I have to wonder Mike, (I know you know the answer to this) who owned the map when nobody was REALLY 'the strongest'?

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

TW isn't an aspect of the game designed for mid levels. It's considered end-game content. If any map should ever be reset it's because one faction has managed to take it all. There should be no other reason.

You and I both know that there have been more than a few mid level factions going to in TW. My position with the reset is that if ONE faction owns HALF of the map, it need to be reset. Or if TWO factions own HALF of the map (like Kylin and Kindgom did pre-Zulu era in Harshlands,) the map needs to be reset.

Because those of us who aren't endgame yet need something to look forward to besides epic PK's Nirvana, (sh*tty) TT3-3, and endgame gears that we will eventually get bored with and ragequit due to lack of content.

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

You might as well just give one land to every faction that thinks they want one and have it permanently set to be owned by that one faction. Sounds stupid, eh? It should... it's as stupid a suggestion as any in this thread.

Don't be such a sourpuss Mike, you're killing the mood! b:sad

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

You and I both know that there have been more than a few mid level factions going to in TW. My position with the reset is that if ONE faction owns HALF of the map, it need to be reset. Or if TWO factions own HALF of the map (like Kylin and Kindgom did pre-Zulu era in Harshlands,) the map needs to be reset.

Because those of us who aren't endgame yet need something to look forward to besides epic PK's Nirvana, (sh*tty) TT3-3, and endgame gears that we will eventually get bored with and ragequit due to lack of content.

I dunno, Harshlands pretty much shown that resetting the map isn't altogether necessary. It's changed color numerous times since the server first opened. Albeit, mostly due to drama because the contending rpk faction could never hold itself together to take more than a few lands... it doesn't look like Zulu will be stopped in this iteration. Who knows, it still could fall apart.

The map is supposed to be open to be conquered. Once the map is owned by one faction, it probably should be reset, however there does need to be a 'prize' for those that were actually able to take the whole map. It shouldn't be reset without fair compensation.

BTW, being in a land owning faction doesn't change my viewpoint. Even if I weren't in a TW faction, I still think people who earned what they built on hard work deserve a reward for it and taking away what they worked for every time it becomes something is just unfair.

I still like the idea that for each land there should be a percentage chance that NPCs randomly attack it at any given time (aside from fri-sun)... so the members on at that time would need to face it or risk losing the land and having it open for bidding the next TW cycle. So if a faction owns 20 lands, they'll most likely have to face several NPC attacks during the week, at even 3am or whenever, and if they can't defeat this NPC attack in the given time, the land goes back to NPC status and is free for anyone to bid on. So if a faction has 20 or more lands, they'll be facing a half-dozen or more attacks at any random time of the week.

I think a system like that would be much more fair.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Mike I agree with you that the best factions should recieve a sort of prize for owning land.

But the problem with your suggestion of only resseting the map once the faction owns all the land is problematic in that it gives mega factions an incentive to allow one faction to own 1 piece of land so as to not reset the whole map.

Though I'll admit that giving a large enough prize for owning all territorys might be a good enough incentive to get past the problem of mega factions allowing for one piece of land to be left for lower factions.

What do you think would be a big enough prize to give mega factions a reason to go through with it and conquer all lands, but that's not too much as to make the faction OP after winning once (like giving the fac +10 d orbs or something)