Better idea to help reduce the APS problem.
Sunked - Lost City
Posts: 84 Arc User
So i won with my laziness and put together some:
APS PROBLEM SOLUTION (from bm's point of view)
TADA!
All what need to be done is to:
PUT COOLDOWN ON SPARK (30 sec. to 1 min.)
Pros and cons:
Pros:
1.Easy to implement
All complicated/funy ideas will never go with busyness/laziness of devs + all mayor changes are difficult to maintain and will cose even more hard to spot and fix bugs.
2. Agro holding
W/e barb is needed or not, thats other discussion, but without perma spark barb have actually chance to hold/reset agro with some pingponging. That will require skill from barb and some agro switching will make cleric job more fun. (i have -int bm and at 2.5 there is no barb able to hold agro against my +4 deicide which is sad and making this class useless, and in perma sage spark i can tank as good)
3. No APS classes
Dmg Gap will be much lower + look next point. Team work would be much more important than just boss poking.
4. Chi stacked
APS classes would have enough chi to actually use some other skills, amp stuns, heals, selfbuffs, dmg reduction. Possibilities r endless. Good team will have much higher dmg output with wizzi timing his ulti with various skills so it will go in favor of good team work instead of just random high aps squads.
5. Money
Other classes would have reason to buy stuff, cs wont be only to get ur aps, but also to improve some other aspect of your character like skills, hp etc, for example making -chan wizzi, 30k hp barb is much more expensive than 5aps sin, and aps classes would actually invest in some skills usable again. And 5APS will be sill very good to have so it wont stop ppl from getting it. (as BM im not rly bothered with anything else but aps cose why i need skills if im rarely using them?)
5. Diversity
Ofc Magic classes still would be less wanted in instances, but good wizzi/psy will have place in squad and could be more valuable than 1 more aps dude and able to fill their actual roles. That will help other classes to actually progress in game, and end game will be different than bunch of making money sins/bms.
6. Pro and Noobs
Good bm/sin will be able to support their team much better, improve dmg output in different way than just clicking 1 skill every 15 sec. So game will be requiring skills again. (im as bm slowly forgetting about dragons cose in spark im dealing more dmg than whole team together so why?)
7. Genie
Good player will find a numerous uses for genie to improve dmg output other than extreme poison.
8.PVP
All classes are balanced in pvp, APS can be owned in numerous different ways so no problem here, and spark cooldown wont effect it that much.
9.Other
Less healing from bp = barb cleric more needed,
longer runs = more cs cose i want tiz gear NAO!
loooonger nirvana = more farming other instances (so ill be able to buy some **** hh99 mats)
cons:
idk some minor QQing maybe.
Cont find anything really, maybe someone will come up with something.
APS PROBLEM SOLUTION (from bm's point of view)
TADA!
All what need to be done is to:
PUT COOLDOWN ON SPARK (30 sec. to 1 min.)
Pros and cons:
Pros:
1.Easy to implement
All complicated/funy ideas will never go with busyness/laziness of devs + all mayor changes are difficult to maintain and will cose even more hard to spot and fix bugs.
2. Agro holding
W/e barb is needed or not, thats other discussion, but without perma spark barb have actually chance to hold/reset agro with some pingponging. That will require skill from barb and some agro switching will make cleric job more fun. (i have -int bm and at 2.5 there is no barb able to hold agro against my +4 deicide which is sad and making this class useless, and in perma sage spark i can tank as good)
3. No APS classes
Dmg Gap will be much lower + look next point. Team work would be much more important than just boss poking.
4. Chi stacked
APS classes would have enough chi to actually use some other skills, amp stuns, heals, selfbuffs, dmg reduction. Possibilities r endless. Good team will have much higher dmg output with wizzi timing his ulti with various skills so it will go in favor of good team work instead of just random high aps squads.
5. Money
Other classes would have reason to buy stuff, cs wont be only to get ur aps, but also to improve some other aspect of your character like skills, hp etc, for example making -chan wizzi, 30k hp barb is much more expensive than 5aps sin, and aps classes would actually invest in some skills usable again. And 5APS will be sill very good to have so it wont stop ppl from getting it. (as BM im not rly bothered with anything else but aps cose why i need skills if im rarely using them?)
5. Diversity
Ofc Magic classes still would be less wanted in instances, but good wizzi/psy will have place in squad and could be more valuable than 1 more aps dude and able to fill their actual roles. That will help other classes to actually progress in game, and end game will be different than bunch of making money sins/bms.
6. Pro and Noobs
Good bm/sin will be able to support their team much better, improve dmg output in different way than just clicking 1 skill every 15 sec. So game will be requiring skills again. (im as bm slowly forgetting about dragons cose in spark im dealing more dmg than whole team together so why?)
7. Genie
Good player will find a numerous uses for genie to improve dmg output other than extreme poison.
8.PVP
All classes are balanced in pvp, APS can be owned in numerous different ways so no problem here, and spark cooldown wont effect it that much.
9.Other
Less healing from bp = barb cleric more needed,
longer runs = more cs cose i want tiz gear NAO!
loooonger nirvana = more farming other instances (so ill be able to buy some **** hh99 mats)
cons:
idk some minor QQing maybe.
Cont find anything really, maybe someone will come up with something.
Post edited by Sunked - Lost City on
0
Comments
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Sunked - Lost City wrote: »cons:
idk some minor QQing maybe.
Cont find anything really, maybe someone will come up with something.
Borsuc would win. That's big enough reason why it shouldn't be done. ijs
Joking aside, it wouldn't chance much. People would go for 4 aps base, get a MAG (+possibly vit) genie with aps boost skill and that's it, 5 aps attacks. Of course it would be less OP, but enough to make room for barbs OR magic classes? It would have to be much bigger nerf to actually make a difference.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
look...this thread...again
*facedesks repeatedly*Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
How does that make mag users more wanted? That just makes people want to run 5 -int squads even more. Before people might take a caster or two other than cleric because they can finish the run fast anyway, with this nerfed that incentive is gone.
Most of your points are wrong. I'm just not going to waste my time.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Ok as a pure dex archer, barbs seem to have an issue holding aggro with my unsparked bow damage (from a crappy +5 FC Gold bow) unless they literally spam their aggro skills. The moment I spark, I can tell for certain that I'd surely steal aggro unless the barb really really knows what he/she is doing. To top it all, I dont even use the Jones' Blessing.
If youre looking at giving back the barb their role to tank, then I suggest increasing the hate they generate using their skills.
Irrespective of perma spark or not....there are only a few skills with genies that do increase the damage output. People would still use the same skills without the perma spark
And Good BMs/Sins already know when to use their skills and when to use their 5.0 aps perma sparking ability. So I dont see anything needing here.
Truthfully, this should be in the suggestions section and not here.0 -
It won't solve anything.
It may make people even more prone to having all-aps classes in a squad to compensate.
They should also 'balance' magic damage increase from spark. Currently casters currently get 700% of weapon damage for triple spark that should be reduced to 500%. Also, no skills should be more than 100% extra weapon damage. Also, why should magic classes have the range of archers? All magic should be ranged, perhaps only 15-20m. Archers should be the only truly long-ranged DD class.
b:byeI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
If you put a cooldown on sparks, it really isn't fair to the other classes, especially the casters that need that extra boost, epecially for the caster classes that can get chi pretty quickly.
Cooldowns in sparks are not a solution, just slightly nerf the aps...or have the cleric cast red bubble....*fades away from the forums because of the expected flame <_>[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »It won't solve anything.
It may make people even more prone to having all-aps classes in a squad to compensate.
They should also 'balance' magic damage increase from spark. Currently casters currently get 700% of weapon damage for triple spark that should be reduced to 500%. Should Casters also get hp from sparking? Also, no skills should be more than 100% extra weapon damage. Including all bm skills like myriad or bolt? Also, why should magic classes have the range of archers? All magic should be ranged, perhaps only 15-20m. then bms should be melee so 5m perhaps?. Archers should be the only truly long-ranged DD class.
b:bye
and after this make normal atk has a channeling and casting time and magic classes having zerk...
ups...to much trolling already...i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »and after this make normal atk has a channeling and casting time and magic classes having zerk...
ups...to much trolling already...
lol sure, and give melee classes long ranged ultis as well while you're at it. I want to be able to dragon + highland cleave people that are 30m away. b:pleasedI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
A few problems:
1. Archers and Sins can get 5 aps base with claws.
2. 4 aps base + Wind Shield -> 5 aps
3. Demon Cyclone Heel -> 5 aps
And a decent genie can hold Windshield for over a minute straight.
And the only thing it'd do is allow people to use skills instead of sparking, since they could still gain massive chi.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Seriously. stop making this fix the aps thingy. its a ****** part of the game. if u dislike then you're in a wrong game.0
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The moment I spark, I can tell for certain that I'd surely steal aggro unless the barb really really knows what he/she is doing.
Thats the point pro barb will reset agro and back to tanking, it require skills with perma sparking no can do.It may make people even more prone to having all-aps classes in a squad to compensate.
more 5aps wont be as good as magic user in squadIf you put a cooldown on sparks, it really isn't fair to the other classes, especially the casters that need that extra boost, especially for the caster classes that can get chi pretty quickly.
no magic user can permasparkAnd Good BMs/Sins already know when to use their skills and when to use their 5.0 aps perma sparking ability. So I dont see anything needing here.
yes but why to use skills if spark will give u better output than anything else u can use
without perma spark the whole aps is not that OP, unsparked bm hitting about 5k x 5 per sec, wizzi is hiting 15-20k if magic timed rite into amp with 0 chaneling heavy skills it will outdd fists easly, but that require skills, cooperation and pro team members working together0 -
Eyeofthtiger - Sanctuary wrote: »Seriously. stop making this fix the aps thingy. its a ****** part of the game. if u dislike then you're in a wrong game.
i like this game, just like my wizzi more than bm, and i would be happier to run nv on the class i like not on the class i hav to0 -
Sunked - Lost City wrote: »more 5aps wont be as good as magic user in squad
Justify this please.without perma spark the whole aps is not that OP, unsparked bm hitting about 5k x 5 per sec, wizzi is hiting 15-20k if magic timed rite into amp with 0 chaneling heavy skills it will outdd fists easly, but that require skills, cooperation and pro team members working together
Against a single target, fists would still out-damage a caster.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Eyeofthtiger - Sanctuary wrote: »Seriously. stop making this fix the aps thingy. its a ****** part of the game. if u dislike then you're in a wrong game.
Seriously. stop making this fix the pack thingy. its a ****** part of the game. if u dislike then you're in a wrong game.
Seriously. stop making this fix the rubberband thingy. its a ****** part of the game. if u dislike then you're in a wrong game.
Seriously. stop making this fix the tab glitch thingy. its a ****** part of the game. if u dislike then you're in a wrong game.
Seriously. stop making this fix the bugs thingy. its a ****** part of the game. if u dislike then you're in a wrong game.
Seriously. stop making this fix the QQ thingy. its a ****** part of life. if u dislike then you're in a wrong planet.
you may say i'm a dreamer, but i'm not the only one~0 -
Pros: This is never gonna happen.
Cons: This is never gonna happen.0 -
@ Michael_Dark - Lost City
yes dps > dph against high hp single target, but without permaspark difference mele/magic is not that big, and all bms sin must do something with all those unused sparks, and magic timed with amp can eat some nice chunk of boss'es hp, but like i said that require bit more than clicking 1 icon every 15 sec
+ unsparked bp is not that great and most of ppl would need cleric to keep em alive
and i miss yelling DRAGOOON IN 5 b:laugh0 -
got bored posted what should be common sense
there is not has never been and will never be an aps problem in the only place balance has ever mattered in pwiGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Well I've done quite a bit of farming. I don't see how this would motivate me to bring non-aps people at all.
I'm far more likely to help non-aps squads now because I have it. If I didn't, runs would take considerably longer, so I would want to bring more aps people when right now it doesn't matter because stuff dies quick.
See, I'm giving you my opinion actually being here. Stuff dies so quick I don't really care who is in party with me. Reduce my damage considerably and make it take a lot longer, then I will care.
*shrug*I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »Well I've done quite a bit of farming. I don't see how this would motivate me to bring non-aps people at all.
I'm far more likely to help non-aps squads now because I have it. If I didn't, runs would take considerably longer, so I would want to bring more aps people when right now it doesn't matter because stuff dies quick.
See, I'm giving you my opinion actually being here. Stuff dies so quick I don't really care who is in party with me. Reduce my damage considerably and make it take a lot longer, then I will care.
*shrug*
1. i'd say stuff dies TOO quick
2. the lack of motivation to invite non interval classes is too obvious as that the devs shouldn't know already
3. nerving nv/hh to make farming for interval squads more difficult while making it for normal squads almost impossible to finish in a decent time for no reason
4. next step would be to give casters more dps/more chigain+ability to permaspark making them get more dps than interval if they just charge more
5. and also any further nerf of interval/hh/nv will give everybody who already had farmed an unfair advantage
6. tideborn classes and content were published in a hurry and they didn't cared about balance or anything...b:shutup
7. PWE just throwing out new content while never fixing known bugs/balance issues is just like saying CHARGE MORE! b:bye
IMO either devs(the chinese ones not the pwi one whos in charge of "localisation" b:chuckle) are incompetent or managers are to greedy, thats why this game is broken...b:sadi am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
Eyeofthtiger - Sanctuary wrote: »Seriously. stop making this fix the aps thingy. its a ****** part of the game. if u dislike then you're in a wrong game.
Very true , sort of like you are on a wrong server if I see PvE server on your avatar you become an automatic non-factor and I dismiss all of your messages by default lawl. b:pleased
Seriously stop replaying to the 5aps topics , all of you clowns from PvE servers should not even have the right to voice your opinion , you are gimped , you dont realize what this game is all about , you are in fact is an abomination lol. Please dont talk if you are on a PvE server.
P.S. Michael Dark is the only idiot even tho he is on a pvp server he shouldnt talk either.0 -
Sunked - Lost City wrote: »Thats the point pro barb will reset agro and back to tanking, it require skills with perma sparking no can do. Ok yesterday I was in squad with a lvl98 barb and using my bow to literally tank Brigand Transient on BB with the barb desperately trying to regain aggro after I demon sparked. Mind you BM and Veno were using their skills beautifully (HF + amp + mire + that skill which looks a pillar of white that reduces phy def) and I got a serious of 60k crits
. If the barb got aggro, 2 shots after that he lost it. This is not a case of perma-sparking at all. Its just that the damage output of DDs at 9x is way more than what the barb skills are designed to handle. Heck this happens even at 7x and 8x it the barb isnt careful enough.
Now if this was the case with a crappy +5 lvl85 gold bow, imagine the case wherein people weild +10 and +12 lunar/nirvana weapons. My point still stands,
more 5aps wont be as good as magic user in squad
no magic user can permaspark.....neither can a bow weilding archer. Point being we still do tremendous damage with normal shots when it comes to pve and against non [?] mobs
yes but why to use skills if spark will give u better output than anything else u can use...There are places where axes and skills need to be used. Rebirth instances for example, it is part of your culti at higher lvls whether you like it or not. Your 5.0 aps means squat here if you dont know how to use your other skills. Other places that I would state is FC while pulling passages
without perma spark the whole aps is not that OP, unsparked bm hitting about 5k x 5 per sec, wizzi is hiting 15-20k if magic timed rite into amp with 0 chaneling heavy skills it will outdd fists easly, but that require skills, cooperation and pro team members working together
Youre basically still missing the whole point that the 5.0 aps DPS is valid only when your fighting against a single target and not a multitude of them.
Finally the amount of high level barbs and competant ones (partly due to the fact that their aggro skills dont easily match the damage output of 9x DDers, even without 5.0 aps) is so less that you shift to strategies that let you do stuff without them which is what happened.0 -
Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »Youre basically still missing the whole point that the 5.0 aps DPS is valid only when your fighting against a single target and not a multitude of them.
For me there needs to be 5-6 mobs before demon barrage does higher DPS than claws. Even then it is often better to use claws anyway since you are able to whittle them down one by one which means taking less damage.
In pretty much all pve but delta claws are more effective.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Ohlookit'soneofthesethreadsagain0
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LOL another aps thread. -.-[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »LOL another aps thread. -.-
LoL another non-factor PvE server barb b:pleased0 -
WizardCraft - Harshlands wrote: »LoL another non-factor PvE server barb b:pleased
lol another idiot lowbie0 -
WizardCraft - Harshlands wrote: »LoL another non-factor PvE server barb b:pleased
Lol another one getting reported for insulting. b:chuckle100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
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The best idea to reduce APS problem thread was closed.0
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WizardCraft - Harshlands wrote: »LoL another non-factor PvE server barb b:pleased
lol another PvP server non-factor who thinks he is all that.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Sunked - Lost City wrote: »i like this game, just like my wizzi more than bm, and i would be happier to run nv on the class i like not on the class i hav to
Wizards are not as useful in Nirv regardless of whether we have 5aps or not. If 5aps gets nerfed you're still better off running on your BM than your wiz. At least venos have amp, at least clerics can heal and debuff, wtf does a wizard do? Most of you don't even max your water buffs.
With that said, it doesn't really matter. Someone has to handle the Blackwing mobs and elemental chests. That would go to the one who's not healing and who outputs the least DPSElena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0
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