Sage/Demon skills: wizard vs psychic

pwpe

I know alot of people have been saying that psychics are OP even at end game. However I was looking at the sage/demon skills on ecatomb and found that wizard skills generally hit harder than psychics. For example our pyrogram does 683 more damage than there aqua impact and our gush does 452 more than there spirit blast. so here are my questions?

Are the facts on ecatomb correct?

If so why are people still complaining that psychics are OP at endgame?

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

the figures are correct but they dont represent the actual dmg of the psy because
22(25) attack lvls from black voodoo boost the psys dmg and this additional dmg isnt shown when you simply look at the skill descriptions.

Furthermore you also should check channeling and casting of the skills because a skill with slightly lower dmg that can be casted twice during the time another skill with higher channeling and cast takes will result in much more dmg overall

in the thread wiz dmg < psy dmg you will find a more detailed analysis and comparison of the dmg

greetz harm0wnie

BlastingWave - Harshlands

as much as i love my Wiz , unfortunately the sad truth is that psy really are OP and that they deal more damg even with sage/demon versions of their skills * curse blackvodoo *, hopefully the Devs would somehow improve wizards in the upcoming expansion to make them at par with Psy , otherwise this class will soon be extinct ....

iamgodtruestory

yeah psy are OP due to black voodoo....

but i still feel its pretty balanced...,what makes wizards better(just according to me) is that we have stone barrier.. in other words.. the ability to not get up our asses by melee classes....
psy surely rule due to cast an channel time tho....b:angry

Adroit - Lost City

iamgodtruestory wrote: »

yeah psy are OP due to black voodoo....

but i still feel its pretty balanced...,what makes wizards better(just according to me) is that we have stone barrier.. in other words.. the ability to not get up our asses by melee classes....
psy surely rule due to cast an channel time tho....b:angry

and they have physical immune, white voodoo, reliable stun, useful buffs, soulburn etc etc. Stone barrier doesn't make up for all of their neat skillz.

iamgodtruestory

i agree adroit... damn those fishies

iamgodtruestory

oh yeah and soulforce skills..... b:cry

Laylor - Heavens Tear

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

and they have physical immune, white voodoo, reliable stun, useful buffs, soulburn etc etc. Stone barrier doesn't make up for all of their neat skillz.

uhm I don't agree.
every psy' skill has pro and cons, like the vodoos: I would say its useless in pvp, its not like you have so much time to switch between them when needed. Then, you gotta go with black vodoo, meaning you'll end up taking more damage than you are supposed to take (unless you're rich and shard your gear with def lvl shards).
Plus, all the "souls" (stunning, vengance etc) are based on your soulforce and on chances (meaning they won't work all the time).
I can agree on soulburn, its pretty good, but not the others.
Stone barrier can let you have same phys def as a BM + greater earth resistance....with no side effects.
that makes up for most of their skills (pvp wise).
Plus, a Demon wiz got even more stuns and freezes than a psy..

Adroit - Lost City

Laylor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

uhm I don't agree.
every psy' skill has pro and cons, like the vodoos: I would say its useless in pvp

stopped reading after you said voodoos are useless in pvp.
Try again without utterly failing in the first sentence and I'll spend the time to read your entire post.

BlastingWave - Harshlands

50% stun from emberstone isnt as attractive as the 100% stuning from psy especially since the stun duration from it will be a minimun of 4 secs , As far as useage of blackvoodo in pvp is concerned , most psys are using it quite effectively in pvp although i agree switching to whitevoodo in between pvp is very difficult but still , they have soul of silence as well not to mention soul disturb for 80% increased channel for enemies QQ

iamgodtruestory

lol adroit...

but umm yeah man

white voodooo + soulforce skills = allows psy to go away frm keyboard and later find that he/she killed 20 guys who tries to attack him without even using a skill...(probably over-exaggerating here, but im just doin it to make the point b:laugh)

high lvl and good refining greatly increases soulforce.... u'll usually find urself takin more damage frm a psy like this than u deal... plus, they hav soul of stunnin which basically stuns u if u attack them.... over powered much? u hav to rely on DoT and then run frm psys to beat them i guess....

againg.... DAMN THOSE FISHIES!!! b:angry

iamgodtruestory

yeah also add everything blasting wave said to that

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Their reflect skills, the ones that stun you when you hit them, or the one that silences you, or the one that reflects damage based off soulforce... i mean what the hell an endgame psy can stun you for 4 sec when you hit him... then he'll use Earth Vector, you're basically fried.

The "soul of" stuff are just too OP for a char who already has control skills like stuns (earth vector), paralyze and fast channeling -- and voodoos... those are already good enough.

Let's not forget soulburn that's basically a "distance shrink the **** away and hope you survive by doing it" move.

Adroit - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Their reflect skills, the ones that stun you when you hit them, or the one that silences you, or the one that reflects damage based off soulforce... i mean what the hell an endgame psy can stun you for 4 sec when you hit him... then he'll use Earth Vector, you're basically fried.

The "soul of" stuff are just too OP for a char who already has control skills like stuns (earth vector), paralyze and fast channeling -- and voodoos... those are already good enough.

Let's not forget soulburn that's basically a "distance shrink the **** away and hope you survive by doing it" move.

ya.. soulburn is disgusting. Fun fact, triple spark doesn't purify it.. I found this out the hard way.

BlastingWave - Harshlands

@ Androit ,3 spark not purifying soulburn QQ , what about clerics purify does it work , also can a veno purge the psy voodos ???

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

BlastingWave - Harshlands wrote: »

@ Androit ,3 spark not purifying soulburn QQ , what about clerics purify does it work , also can a veno purge the psy voodos ???

Nope, on both accounts.

iamgodtruestory

@elder sig - awesome sig :P

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

BlastingWave - Harshlands wrote: »

@ Androit ,3 spark not purifying soulburn QQ , what about clerics purify does it work , also can a veno purge the psy voodos ???

soulburn is triggered by ANY type of skill a player uses that means also if i heal myself with morning dew i get the dmg i tried it out with a psychic friend in a duel so letting the 3rd spark not purify it makes it even worse

@earthbarrier discussion: considering the relatively low cooldown and long duration of the psychics skills the point clearly goes to the psychic here because i guess there is no doubt that any endgame psy can kill a physical user during the 8s immunity with normal spam hits because he channels way faster than the bm and can leave black voodoo on for additional dmg boost moreover the chance that the psy continues with another stun after that is high
wiz earth barrier reduces the dmg taken but wont give you immunity that reduces dmg to 0 and with APS of physical chars and dmg of endgame weapons that additional phy defense wont make a difference because once the bm stuns and attacks you as a wiz you will be dead

BlastingWave - Harshlands

nooo the advantages of earthbarrier are still tremendous in muti pvp , a psy can only save himself with psy will once than hes as good as a dead fish , a good bm will just stun the psy when he uses psy will and then wait out the duration as soon as its off hell cream that fish in 2or 3 shots , not to mention that having nothing like earthbarrier restricts psy choices of shards ive seen many fail psy shard 100% with citrines and then QQ about how the bm or sin just 2 shoted them .HP without pdef is still fail just as pdef without hp is fail .

Borsuc - Raging Tide

A good BM stuns a psy with psychic will? Well at least he'll survive through the stun, unlike a wiz. Unless BM uses anti-stun don't forget who gets the first stun also. Earth Vector is nasty. And there's a genie skill called Holy Path. But it's funny even more to use Soul of Silence and see them get sealed when they hit you.

BlastingWave - Harshlands

You can either have soul of stunning or soul of retaliation on at a time , most psy prefer soul of retaliation to prevent 1 shots than after 30 secs they can use soul of stunning , soul of silence doesnt have a 100 % hit rate if it did psy would become almost invincible , a psy cant always have 2 sparks for both psy will and earth vector and yeah the BM can just holy path away but the psy can do that too and use earth vector , not to mention if they are in the air psy has essential sutra for 50% fly speed increase so running away doesnt really appear to be much help unless the psy is **** and lets the BM run away only so he can come back to kill him again

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Endgame psys have too much soulforce with the refines. b:surrender

BlastingWave - Harshlands

i was checking the psy forums and well i found out that soul of silence isnt all that wohooo or OMG im so scred type of thing , with a soulfource of 16k + a psy will have around 10 to 11 % chance to successfully silence the oponent , not very reliable if you ask me

Borsuc - Raging Tide

But it is more significant against -interval people.

BlastingWave - Harshlands

yeah it is , but psy wont survive very well against interval people as compared to wiz or clerics , keep in mind they have the lowest amount of pdef in game even if a psy is taking only 100 extra dmg per hit compared to a wiz or a cleric it turns out to be alot with interval people, wait did i just prove that psy need soul of silence to survive interval peeps

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Soul of silence and stunning are the only ways to effectively stop chain stunning and stealth ganking as far as I'm concerned.

And with 5aps chars, even with only a 10% chance for it to proc (and that's with normal refines I'm guessing? Not the 8+ that some psys get?) that still averages out to the bm getting sealed once every 2seconds, and with a charm, or especially white voodoo on, it's very possible the bm could be sealed.

Then the psy just has to turn on soul of stunning > glacial shard > earth vector > pick up loot

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

BlastingWave - Harshlands wrote: »

nooo the advantages of earthbarrier are still tremendous in muti pvp , a psy can only save himself with psy will once than hes as good as a dead fish , a good bm will just stun the psy when he uses psy will and then wait out the duration as soon as its off hell cream that fish in 2or 3 shots , not to mention that having nothing like earthbarrier restricts psy choices of shards ive seen many fail psy shard 100% with citrines and then QQ about how the bm or sin just 2 shoted them .HP without pdef is still fail just as pdef without hp is fail .

you forgot soul of retalitation. it has 30s duration and 30s cooldown = permanent self buff for the psy even if the psychic will is in cooldown the stun of the bm will be reflected and stun the bm itself + the bm will receive dmg so its impossible to get a first stun on a psy

BlastingWave - Harshlands

@ harm0wnies no your wrong here

soul of retaliation will not reflect status ailment skill if it doesnt have damge as a part of it , so you can silence ,sleep blah blah psy if your attack doesnt have damg with it try to force of will a psy youll see, soul of retaliation wears of after a succesful reflection the real advantage it has is that it reduces part of the damg so its almost impossible to one shot psy with soul of retaliation on , just use something like pitfall or crown of flame and poof the soul of retaliation is gone using , never ever use undine since its debuff will get reflected , it has damg included in it , and your own mag resist will get decreased as well

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

soul of retaliation: will disappear after any hit. wont reflect debuffs that dont fo dmg
earth vector: 85% chance to stun
soul of silence rarely activates...

soulforce+refines? lol, a psy at lvl101 has ~15k soulforce. refines will become noticeable after a +10 weapon (gain 1k soulforce). with a +12 weapon the soulforce becomes 30k and +12 everything gives 55k soulforce.

even with 55k soulforce sov deals 1,1k dmg (pvp reduction) and ofc this is reduced by your defenses. so yeah, 500dmg, OMG OP!

yes, soulburn would deal 13k raw dmg but sure, the full +12 psy would waste 3 sec casting soulburn and wait for you to attack instead of one-shooting with a simple skill in 2sec...

Kawailele - Sanctuary

humm how should i go about this ?.....ok u wizzy's have 3 good 2 sparks skill (im talking about using it with out the blessing) and dont say oh u have the lv100 skill your lv11 2 spark skills are still stronger!! we may have psy will but u have stone barrier and that distance shrink and undine ...if u use undine + ganie(the 1 that makes u take more damge) on a psy in white voodo and u have a good wep sayy +3 u will go right pass it with ezz and psy has a hard time fighting back in white voodo...and MOST PSY'S ARE PURE MAG!! thats y we hit so hard with black voodo and if a psy miss use 1-2 or if u still live by the 3rd mess up on skill's a psy will die .....we may have a stun skill and immobilize ...but!!! we do not have a 100% silence skill and sleep and a 2 spark stun skill and u wizzy's can get away with putting only HP shards because of the stone barrier and all your skills hit harder at lv10 and lv11 and when it comes 2 lv11 u wizzy have more skills 2 D-buff mag rez and slow barbs bm and sins down ..

i seen so much times a wizzy slowing the barb down and using distance shrink and when the right time comes BOOM!! sutra ,then MS,BID, and some times all the 2 spark skills (that 1 is rare lol )and the wizzy did not get hit much ... and as for the - ap's BM there stun is what 6 sec psy will is 8 still dont matter in the last 2 sec a psy can DIE!! LOL witch is mest up XD and some psys have high crit rate +pure (or very close 2 it) 2 make up for the Damege that wizzy's have but wizzy's can do the same....oh and btw ant stun vs barb's = RUN!!!! for psy's and if needed psy will LOL ..for wizzy = silence then smack um a little then sleep then distant shrink ETC ..... far as i can c it psy are NOT OP!!!....and -ap's ppl can hit 342543(more or less xD) then psy die then they get silence thats how fast they hit and white voodo is like ......oh what ever for then .

and imma stop here b4 i end up making a book about it xD..