LF wizzie for bh delta w2

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

A bit bored gathering beans, a bit depressed seeing LF wiz for delta... well, lets compare the ultra super awesome DB with what a poor psy can offer....

Assumptions:
pure wiz and psy, lvl 100
equipments:

psy: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a7a2d626c06f2867
wizzie: dunno, tried all the tt99 gold, even the lunar, didnt get the base mag attack of the psy. what can I say, here is one possibility: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1bbaca3eaa702e8b

so,
psy: matatck: 7928-9171, average 8549
wiz: mattack: 7068-9171, average 8119
well, whatever, lets assume that it's 8549, maybe i'm missing something.


Action!
so, the wizzie just stands and DB... lets say that he has lvl11 DB, 4800+basic every 3 sec!

the poor psy has only lvl10 skills
the psy does one aoe combo, sandburst blast,glacial shards, aqua cannnon, sandburst blast, glacial shards, lets toss an earth vector to be sure that the cooldowns will be ok...
17 sec, lets make it 18 to be sure (and to compare easier with the wizzie!)

we get 6 basic dmg, 1100% weapon attack and 19,761 elemental dmg, earth and water.
from the wizzie we get 6 basic dmg and an awesome 28,800 fire dmg

so, 1100% weapon dmg vs 9,039 fire dmg...
the weapon dmg of the psy is 1049 (average) so 11,544 vs 9,039, psy wins

but but but, i forgot about the elemental masteries of the wizzie, too bad that the psy has elemental masteries too.
and guess what, it gets even better, cause we forgot the 22 attack levels from the black voodoo (25% if sage), that's another 22% more dmg for the poor psy that get rejected from deltas since the need an aoe dd </irony>

Summary
so, lets make a summary of what you get with a psy:
1)MORE dmg than a lvl11 dragon breath even if the psy has lvl10 skills
2)a dynamic constant aoe that can switch targets at will
3)20% better heals for the tank
4)a chance to get a sage sov on the tank (even more dmg!)
5)a yummy aoe heal (chance to be a purify)
6)if that silly psy draws aggro he can actually do something aka psy will and make himself immune, maybe switch to white (hey a nerfed DD is better than a 1k'ed wiz, no?)
7)stuns, freezes, -50% accuracy debuffs
8)a fresh fish to make some sushi if it fails

Disclaimer:
1)maybe i'm missing something that's really awesome in DB if so plz tell me
2)so far I dont really have problems doing my deltas, i'm just annoyed from silly wcs that *need* a wizzie for wave 2 b:avoid

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

nobody know that psys can do that


people believe, that main role of psy in squad is to kill himself with black vodoo on boss

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

nobody know that psys can do that


people believe, that main role of psy in squad is to kill himself with black vodoo on boss

still laughtingb:laughb:laugh

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...
so, 1100% weapon dmg vs 9,039 fire dmg...
the weapon dmg of the psy is 1049 (average) so 11,544 vs 9,039, psy wins

...
and guess what, it gets even better, cause we forgot the 22 attack levels from the black voodoo (25% if sage), that's another 22% more dmg for the poor psy that get rejected from deltas since the need an aoe dd
...

Summary
so, lets make a summary of what you get with a psy:
...
6)if that silly psy draws aggro he can actually do something aka psy will and make himself immune, maybe switch to white (hey a nerfed DD is better than a 1k'ed wiz, no?)
...

1)maybe i'm missing something that's really awesome in DB if so plz tell me
2)so far I dont really have problems doing my deltas, i'm just annoyed from silly wcs that *need* a wizzie for wave 2 b:avoid

I agree, that Psychic has better dps and told, that it must be corrected by developers.

But you forgot about our shields (about 100% more deffense for one type of elemental or physical attack if element is earth).

Arlenia - Dreamweaver

If you're only going to wave 2 who cares what DDs you're taking anyway. Wave 3 is a different story, but any decently geared person that can AOE somewhat should be able to do wave 2. Done it with 2 venos and no wiz before. Seriously not a big deal. Only reason people want a wiz is so that they can have a perfect squad for bonus beans. Mana aura ftw

volst

Give it up, pwi players are noobs. Of course they prefer wizzies, who else is gonna tank? Barbs are awful at aggro.

perfect squad

Any class counts for perfect squad as long as there is only one.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

A bit bored gathering beans, a bit depressed seeing LF wiz for delta... well, lets compare the ultra super awesome DB with what a poor psy can offer....

Assumptions:
pure wiz and psy, lvl 100
equipments:

psy: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a7a2d626c06f2867
wizzie: dunno, tried all the tt99 gold, even the lunar, didnt get the base mag attack of the psy. what can I say, here is one possibility: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1bbaca3eaa702e8b

so,
psy: matatck: 7928-9171, average 8549
wiz: mattack: 7068-9171, average 8119
well, whatever, lets assume that it's 8549, maybe i'm missing something.


Action!
so, the wizzie just stands and DB... lets say that he has lvl11 DB, 4800+basic every 3 sec!

the poor psy has only lvl10 skills
the psy does one aoe combo, sandburst blast,glacial shards, aqua cannnon, sandburst blast, glacial shards, lets toss an earth vector to be sure that the cooldowns will be ok...
17 sec, lets make it 18 to be sure (and to compare easier with the wizzie!)

we get 6 basic dmg, 1100% weapon attack and 19,761 elemental dmg, earth and water.
from the wizzie we get 6 basic dmg and an awesome 28,800 fire dmg

so, 1100% weapon dmg vs 9,039 fire dmg...
the weapon dmg of the psy is 1049 (average) so 11,544 vs 9,039, psy wins

but but but, i forgot about the elemental masteries of the wizzie, too bad that the psy has elemental masteries too.
and guess what, it gets even better, cause we forgot the 22 attack levels from the black voodoo (25% if sage), that's another 22% more dmg for the poor psy that get rejected from deltas since the need an aoe dd </irony>

Summary
so, lets make a summary of what you get with a psy:
1)MORE dmg than a lvl11 dragon breath even if the psy has lvl10 skills
2)a dynamic constant aoe that can switch targets at will
3)20% better heals for the tank
4)a chance to get a sage sov on the tank (even more dmg!)
5)a yummy aoe heal (chance to be a purify)
6)if that silly psy draws aggro he can actually do something aka psy will and make himself immune, maybe switch to white (hey a nerfed DD is better than a 1k'ed wiz, no?)
7)stuns, freezes, -50% accuracy debuffs
8)a fresh fish to make some sushi if it fails

Disclaimer:
1)maybe i'm missing something that's really awesome in DB if so plz tell me
2)so far I dont really have problems doing my deltas, i'm just annoyed from silly wcs that *need* a wizzie for wave 2 b:avoid

How sustainable is your DDing capabilities? Dragons Breath is literally point and click...once. Do psys get an aoe that they can just set and leave?

I say this, because the last Delta I did with a psy as main DD went afk in the middle of wave 2-3, and didn't come back 'til after we had killed fake boss. At least with a wizz, even if they go afk, their toon is still "working".

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Arlenia - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you're only going to wave 2 who cares what DDs you're taking anyway. Wave 3 is a different story, but any decently geared person that can AOE somewhat should be able to do wave 2. Done it with 2 venos and no wiz before. Seriously not a big deal. Only reason people want a wiz is so that they can have a perfect squad for bonus beans. Mana aura ftw

i know that xD but some people leave squad when they see a psy and a sin because of the "lack of DD" >>
as volst said the perfect squad can be achieved with psy

Xarathox - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How sustainable is your DDing capabilities? Dragons Breath is literally point and click...once. Do psys get an aoe that they can just set and leave?

I say this, because the last Delta I did with a psy as main DD went afk in the middle of wave 2-3, and didn't come back 'til after we had killed fake boss. At least with a wizz, even if they go afk, their toon is still "working".

i cant say anything, even if the psy uses a macro and targets the eye I think that he can go afk for a long time.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

maybe im missing something on psys, but wizards have stone barrier to help the survivability.
also, compare apples to apples, how does a wizards damage add up if they are firing off different aoes constantly.

DB is preferred because it gives the squad a nice focal point, bm has a better idea where to stand, relative, and barb has a better idea how far to drag the mobs.

even if psy's damage is a little better, id still prefer a wiz. that said i've completed with a psy 4 times, [last time psy got 1k'ed at then end of wave 8, completed without a psy/wiz].

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

maybe im missing something on psys, but wizards have stone barrier to help the survivability.

i didnt really compare survivability and to be honest I'm not sure how can this be done. wiz have stone barrier ~ massive pdef, can expel and keep attacking, the psy should sacrifice his DD to cast psy will and become immune or cast bubble to use expel or even white voodoo, equipments is really importand...*headache*
the only thing i can say is that a psy looks flexible while the wizzie is a rock


also, compare apples to apples, how does a wizards damage add up if they are firing off different aoes constantly.

no idea, i dont know a aoe macro for wizzies, can any wizzie enlighten us?b:thanks but it looks like most of their aoes need sparks

DB is preferred because it gives the squad a nice focal point, bm has a better idea where to stand, relative, and barb has a better idea how far to drag the mobs.

yup, thats aother good reason

even if psy's damage is a little better, id still prefer a wiz. that said i've completed with a psy 4 times, [last time psy got 1k'ed at then end of wave 8, completed without a psy/wiz].
it's not really a psy vs wiz thread it's more like a "you wc for 15min for a wiz, maybe try a psy?" XD ofc i can understand that some ppl have certain preferences, it's their game after all. but sometimes it's annoying to hear that a psy doesnt have enough aoe DD :S

@Xarathox i made a aoe macro: 9 sec aoe attack, 2 sec for a non aoe attack to let a skill cooldown

Axelire - Heavens Tear

Replace veno with psychic.

dogm

wave 2 and 3 are a piece of cake. (1-2 1-3)

Stage 2 is very do able.

Stage 3 may be a bit harder.

Checked on ecatomb: the aoe range for earth vector, sandburst and Aqua cannon is listed as 6 or 8 meters (10 meters for sage sandburst) while DB is listed as 12 meters.
So the area where DB does it's damage is greater.
But the buffs and flexibility of psychic skills are a plus.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Psy skills have a 8m radius I think while wiz and archer zhen both have a 12m radius.
1.5 times more radius covers 2.25 times more area.

Really though you dont need psychic or wiz if youre just doing stage 2. I bet you could do it with 1 cleric and 5 venos.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

also, compare apples to apples, how does a wizards damage add up if they are firing off different aoes constantly.

WHAT AOEs?

Hailstorm?
Emberstorm?
Phoenix? (annoyance to everyone else)

lol

12 sec
15 sec
8 sec

Really spammable and great damage. /sarcasm

Anything else is not spammable and requires 2 sparks, even with chi aura, not plausible. Some people overestimate wizard capabilities. DB is the only ****ing thing we have good AOE for DPS and we have to stay still, how sad is that?

On the RT fish server people prefer psys to total random wiz... because there's too many noob wiz who die on wave 2 (and sometimes even wave 1) thinking they can keep DB up forever and go afk... unless they are uber geared ofc but those aren't exactly "random".

I don't have problems getting in deltas though -- I'm always the punching bag (I have +atk shards even) and survive unless BM or barb **** up. I guess for a wiz without uber gear you really have to know what the **** you're doing in there and time stunlocks/MS properly not just spam skills. (skills that we kind of lack anyway!)

DemansPsy - Lost City

ok seeing how i have a lv 100 wizy and a lv 101 psy, and my wizy was doin GVs before frost became nerfed (thats right i lived in gv GAMMA when i was in m,y 8x), i have done full GV deltas w/ both chacters, here r my observations:

wizy - has stone barrier, becomes almost useless after def lv 1 aura due to law of dimishing returns -_-

psy - has psy will, immune to phy damge for at least 8 seconds,30 sec cooldown

wizy - has DB, large range AoE

psy- has a ton of spamable AoE spells, ea w/ higher dps than a wizy's db and can move around

wiz - has a few AoEs that can use out of db, but cooldown too long, there a time when cant use any AoE, has a AoE stun but 5 sec cast for 6 sec styun and 2 sparks

psy - has AoE stun thats 1 spark, lasts 6 secs, takes 1 sec to chanel, and only 20 sec cooldown

wiz- can expel db

sage psy - can expel/bbl of life combo to att durin expel, and heals and purfiys all pt members over 15 secs

and in addition, say the barb dies, a psy can pop white voodoo, use alpha = squad saved for a few seconds (yes iv done this before, charmless, on one f the last waves, it acually works as long as u sharded hp shards of course lol,)

after doin literly hundreds of gv runs w/ my wizy and only over 10 runs on my psy, psy wins for gv hands down, better dps, can empower vigor barb, AoE stun that can be used every 20 secs, immune to phy damge at least 1/3 of the time, and can play barb for a short while if things go bad.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Eh, call me oldschool...but I'd still prefer a wiz over a psy for Main DD. I'm just used to it. Or even a third Archer if wiz was never around.

I don't trust Fish...Too many of them absolutely suck. I personally know one psy I'd drag through hell with me.

(no offense Thanos) b:surrender

Ivy_ - Dreamweaver

I have both a wizard and a psy and DB allows me to go grab a snack.

But...

-Earth vector works as a second stun in the event that the BM stuns too early/too late. And sage version has a chance to take no spark.

-Bubble of life heals for 15 seconds. Think of it as a heal between BB's. Sage version purifies.

-For the "oh **** moments" there's white voodoo.

-Psys can also play veno. And when I say play veno, I don't just mean digging chests in the back. I mean also luring the bosses away. White voodoo and go crazy.

I've completed a few deltas as a psychic (after doing them nonstop as a wizard, I've kinda semi-retired from them) with barely 4.5k hp, and one of them didn't even have a wizard in squad (it was a 5 person delta from wave 3 on--2nd archer had to go).

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

BH 2nd wave is easy anyway, just finished it yesterday in squad with 2 wizards, psychic, veno, barb & cleric. Was very fast too, psychic clearly knew what he's doing since he never used stun as first skill, let us wizzies take a bit of aggro and then stunned mobs.

Most psychics in GV perform "look at me, I can outdamage your noobish asses" act, take aggro and die, sometimes getting 1k'ed :P


Wizard is funnier because can tank a bit of mobs while still dealing a lot of damage to them (Expel b:dirty)

And at this point it's a lot easier to find a wizard who knows what he's doing than silimar psychic.