answer me this...

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

WHy... seriously WHY is it that so many people QQ, wine, ***** and moan about fail barbs, clerics and so on about fail people not knowing how to run an instance ?

Here's an answer for ya, cause your too damn lazy to teach them properly that's why.
My husband turned a 100 a few days ago and needs BH delta but does he get it done ? No..

and why ? cause every squad kicks him out as soon he ASKS them to teach him or at least explain how it's done. He's willing to learn, cause he never got the chance to get into gamma, so has NO idea what has to be done.
Reading up on the forum tells him Jack cause he's not the person to learn from text but actually doing it.

Asking around doesn't help either cause their all too busy already doing a delta or dont want to go through the trouble.
is it really all that much trouble people !? come on, if you invest in actually teachin and showing the people how something is done instead of expecting them to know by default only helps you all in the end cause you dont have incompetent people inyour squads anymore cause they've been taught properly !

Now, You either wanna flame me for being a QQbaby in my husbands stead so be it i dont care, i know i speak truth
or you can actually step up and help, cause last time i checked, clerics + barbs are starting to get rare.
No, rephrase; Clerics and barbs that actually KNOW what their supposed to do are rare.

So, Anyone !?

NonameWiz - Sanctuary

It's a natural thing nowsaday I'd say so. It's not just your hubby, it's the same for other classes too since nobody runs deltas a lot lot lot lot like we used to. Running FCC gives more xp and level up way much faster than Deltas.

So ppl just think that your hubby powerlevel fast and still noob, but don't mind that, looking for other squads that willing to show you how it's done.

I found these, it might help you a bit:

http://infinitum.forumotion.com/help-tips-and-advice-f6/rebirth-delta-guide-t221.htm

http://ncnrocks.free-forums.biz/rebirth-f21/rebirth-delta-t3.htm

Happy delta'ing

Quilue - Sanctuary

Because everyone else in the squad is mostly likely not a barb, and so probably can't instruct a barb properly either. You think I know what goes on when a barb gathers? **** no the barb runs around this corner, goes out of sight and when I see him again, all the mobs are just magically bunched up.

That said, maybe a good BM could teach, because they also gather and know how it's done.

Katzyn - Sanctuary

You just gotta find people who are willing and good at teaching...

Our faction's delta barb (close friend of mine) was taught a couple of months ago, by some close friends in another faction...they taught him in a full delta run, all the while, talking him through it on vent. My husband and I, while not in the run, listened in and learned as well.

I had to do my own research, finding videos and guides, to figure out the veno's job, since it's in an entirely different area half of the time...

WraithTanker - Sanctuary

Isnt really hard.

waves 1-1 through 3-1/3-2

pretty much run up invoke gather roar, run back sunder/surf impact whatever

Then at the bosses u go dig beans (cleric/Veno tanks bosses for first few waves)

3-3 through 3-5 (think those are the stun mobs)

use a vac powder then invoke gather and roar


4-1 through 9-5

forgot xD

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

to all the responces ^_^

But he's not a barb o.o ... guess i should have stated what class he is huh ? b:embarrass Sorry.

He's a cleric, and as far as i'm aware of a cleric's job he should BB and tank one or 2 bosses.
I tried explaining that properly but for some reason cant get it across that he understands cause he's never actually been IN there.

NonameWiz - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's a natural thing nowsaday I'd say so. It's not just your hubby, it's the same for other classes too since nobody runs deltas a lot lot lot lot like we used to. Running FCC gives more xp and level up way much faster than Deltas

It's the BH delta, not the regular order runs ( even though i know you get in with the orders XD ). So, even more "pressing" if i may call it that for a lack of better word.

The thing that got me so .. angry or pissed isn't the word, maybe frustrated and WTF!?-ed, was that so many people on sanct server QQ in WC about people not knowing how to run that instance properly and then flame them for being fail =\

Katzyn - Sanctuary wrote: »

You just gotta find people who are willing and good at teaching...

Our faction's delta barb (close friend of mine) was taught a couple of months ago, by some close friends in another faction...they taught him in a full delta run, all the while, talking him through it on vent. My husband and I, while not in the run, listened in and learned as well.

I had to do my own research, finding videos and guides, to figure out the veno's job, since it's in an entirely different area half of the time...

^That, searching people willing to teach... I tried asking some people, even WC'ed couple of times, reacted on Squad's looking for a cleric ( cause hubby is a little slow on they keys sometimes X.x so i do it ) and asked if they could take someone along that was eager and really willing to learn. and they just DIDN'T reply or told me they wouldn't even want to go through the hassle and well, that's just messed up cause if they actually took the time in teaching people, like my husband, they wouldn't HAVE that problem.
but instead kick him out of the squad as soon as the question "No i'm not exp, but can you teach me then ?" shows up.

Sure, in a few weeks/months time we'll have some of our faction's barbs able to run the instance but even still, the BH differs from the actual full rebirth runs and MY own personal expierence is just from actual full runs.
Heck... hardly ANYONE in the faction i'm in has been in that instance.
-sighs- getting off track here XD

What i mean is, if they actually took the time to teach ( excluding the ones that already do but seem to elude my and hubby's grasp ) there wouldn't be the problem of unexp'd people, more people/squads to run it with and the WHOLE process would be smoother.

yougotme

Katzyn - Sanctuary wrote: »

You just gotta find people who are willing and good at teaching...

Our faction's delta barb (close friend of mine) was taught a couple of months ago, by some close friends in another faction...they taught him in a full delta run, all the while, talking him through it on vent. My husband and I, while not in the run, listened in and learned as well.

I had to do my own research, finding videos and guides, to figure out the veno's job, since it's in an entirely different area half of the time...

Just Gotta . . .

Minimus - Sanctuary

Yep like nnW said. Some older players used to spam delta and not fcc to level while it was a challenge (no blessings, TT90 armor etc.). Therefore it is seen as normal for a level 100 that you know how to do it. On the other hand this knowledge is used to show off or simply to treat people disrespectfully. It's not a biggie to explain BH delta to someone if you know it so well. This game is unfortunately also a place for big egos.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

Mhm indeed, very big egos indeed =.=

and i guess that's basically my question, which 100/90+ are able to run a delta to teach, not only my husband, but other people as well when they need it.

cause not just you people's answers but the fact we STILL havent found any people to help us got me thinking.

I know that I as a veno and with my current gear am able to run a delta, so i was thinking that if i could manage to get some like minded people together and run this instance with people that need it, we'd be able to get more people accustomed with it.

Not just the fact Bountyhunts will be easier to do but also to have one other aspect of the game back into play/view.
I have no doubt in my mind that with me there are enough people that would like to run this instance just because it's fun aside from the exp-bonus of a BH.
but simply cant cause no one knows how and the people that do are often only interested in a quick fix.

Any of you people feel up for the task ?b:victory

Shield - Raging Tide

how can u b 100 w/o knowing what gamma is >_>

anyways go to youtube there are PLENTY of videos there.
ask some friend to gamma with ur hubby. as a cleric is not that hard really.

dont QQ on forums about it instead make a thread asking for ppl to delta with.

good luck

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

Shield, <_< It's exactly YOUR mentallity that has made it that my husband doesn't know what Gamma/Delta is. No offence to you personally, it just poses as a good example to show and explain what i mean.
He was never taken along, he was never taught BECAUSE people like you don't take the time to actually show how it's done but instead choose the easy cheapskate way and direct them to the forums and/or youtube.

If you had read actually read anything about what i had posted you would know i'm not QQing. Plus the fact that i have TRIED myself to get my husband to learn it, BUT lookey here what i typed and you probably didn't read is that, he's not the read and watch videos to "get it" kind of person but actually has do expierence it to learn.
Just like many other people out there that get labled fail or noob because you learn in a different style than others do.

And... did you read my last post at all ? <_< ... I AM asking for people's help, I did before, On WC, In squads and am now doing so in forums.
So either your missed the point of this thread or need darn good glasses cause you missed some sentences where i did exactly what your preaching people to do <-<.... b:shutup

Jellytoast - Sanctuary

Oh if he's a cleric he really has nothing to worry about. He needs to have BB up pretty much for the whole thing, and have vac pots on hand for the stun waves.

Pretty much all there is to it.

Silest - Sanctuary

Actually barbs are getting rare, clerics are plentiful - barbs however are now more inclined to not go on certain runs.

Anyway, yeah this is a problem..and it's a problem in FCC too. Though I guess I contribute the problem, but this is because I am absolutely horrible at explaining things.

There was a barb in my fac though was denied a gamma run because the other fac members were "unsure" about him because he never been to gamma. Half the fac told the other half that he will never learn if he's not allowed in gamma. He told them, tell him what needs and he will get, he told them just tell him what to do and what not to do and he'll listen. He even bought plat charm lol. They didn't let him go >_>. And yet the continued to shout for a barb for hours.

What's happening is, the community is entering the elistist ages >_>. Where you can only do stuff with your "popular know it all friends(ya aint friends. You're just using each other)" while the aspiring newbies are left out in the cold. Yall cannot deny this you know it to be true. Do not complain about the amount of noobs running rampart because frankly you yourselves are producing them.

I never done gamma
I never done delta
I've never seen nirvana but I guess thats 100+
I was taught how to play veno in FCC but the person's ego was too huge for me to care so all I did was observe her.

thankfully I can learn through observation. Reading doesn't help me much.

And lol. I don't BH anymore.

Lu$t - Sanctuary

For delta...it's simple actually. Just bb and anti stun pots like before mentioned. TBH I haven't the slightest clue why he'd get kicked for not knowing that. It takes like what 2 mins to explain bb? If that? Now fcc...I'm one of the very few that taught full fccs...and I gotta say it costs. =/ Charm, apoth, food...the reason it costs more to teach (btw 100 archer) is because mistakes are made. Pretty simple actually. So I end up tanking full pulls er well kiting them long enough for the cleric to get back res and rebuff. This perhaps is why most people won't teach fcc. Then you get ungrateful people that constantly complain and beg for the "uber" exp. So from experience usually besides time or w/e, people won't teach because of others that won't listen. Not saying that's the case but that's the problem I ran into. And so I won't get flamed (equips anti-flame sheild) I farm my coin like everyone else and at one point burned 3-4 charms a week just helping. Priced back then for charms were like 1.2mil. So do the math >_> ~3.6-4.8mil + repairs and apothecary items. And never asked for a single coin in return

At the fact that we're producing them, I beg to differ. Sure there's the beginners...I get tons of random pms asking me for builds or which class they should play. For the most part I help them and even stop what I am doing to help.

I don't quite appreciate the slander towards all high levels. All of us are not about making money. For ***'s sake, I've even went down to 30k helping people I don't even know. I've bought charms and food for people I've never met until a fcc or bh run. But think about this, who's there to help the ones that gave it all? There's a reason we have friends and yes friends do exist. Hell I basically have 4 people I can ask for help usually. That's it. But I don't complain. Today makes it 2 years I've been on this game...I know how most people are by now. Some really are busy, that's cool. Some wanna take the time to make cash instead of helping. Sure go for it. Others are still trying to hit 100. Have fun. That's life. Here's a tip, don't ask for help. Instead do some looking around and sneak in a squad. That's how I learned gamma way back before bh even existed. Tbh I'd like to think I have a right to say "there's too many noob running around" Now I do understand the term noob isn't static so allow me to clarify. I consider a person a noob when they seriously start playing and already is 100. Or they are 100 and can't play their class (this means they can't play it in any instance ). Anyways to end my rambling, don't take your frustration out on every single "high" level without knowing us all. And simply don't tell people you've never delta'd. It's easier to get away as a cleric. And fyi tell him he tanks first boss usually if people are going to farm beans.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

Silest I did an FCC run with you a few weeks back when you were still in the same faction.
I think you overlooked some things, which is a shame. =( Seeing as you seemed to only "wobble" along most of the time i tried including you with it and made you tank one of the bosses, even though you yourself said you were unsure you could.
You did a perfect job for a firstimer ! At least... O.o ... as far as i was aware it being your first time tanking that boss..

Aaaaaanyhow.
Lu$t, i havent ever resorted to slandering other people and i dont plan to. If, and i mean by all means, i came across that way, my apologies. X.x
I guess it's partially a bit of frustration and me trying to get something discussed, cause as you said it yourself. people have become so relient on the people they usually squad with they hardly tolerate anyone else in.

As you did, so are my husband and me, at the moment are doing our dailies and beside that, when ever we can we help people run through TT for their mats ( even provided some people the subs and took no mats for ourselves. ) We run BH/FB's wining it and asking no repayment for the wine. al those little things... It's because we can afford to and sometimes even cant but we enjoy helping.

I'm just trying here, with all i got, to get a few more people interested, like a few posts a go, to drum up some people to run this instance with.
You all say BB and vac pots, mp food. That's all fine, he gets that. but he's one of the people that needs a bit more elaborate, run-me-through it explaination.
I lol'ed at your "FYI" XD, cause to him that would be like : "stand here, look pretty, throw up that sparkly blue ball and dont DIE... Oh and if you see a big ugly monster, we all run away and leave you alone *pats shoulder* ... Your up."

As good of an explaination even that might be <-< ... T_T I tried again yesterday to get him into a Delta squad, i got No responce what so ever to the "If your willing to explain, You got a cleric." Up to 5 times i said this, and up to 5 times the yellow letters in WC popped up again saying they needed a cleric.
-deskplants and sighs-

Lu$t - Sanctuary

Meh for the lack of better terms (and appropriate =.=;) the general mass of PWI has became as greedy as the money-eating packs. It relates to real life in a way. Newer generations are so dependent on technology, some have never done the "common" things older people have. This proves true in this game also. New generations are so used to "easy" mode, any teaching or actual work is feared. Sigh so is the will of the people zzz Hence why I hardly play anymore. Welcome to the new era of pwi. (and yea it def sucks >_>)

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

* gives big fox teary eyes * Then play more and help change it with me !?
Dear lord... <-< ... o.o No i wasn't begging... NO! ... it was a question ! honest !

<-<...>->

Joshcja - Sanctuary

a lot of the barbs and clerics on sanc really are terribad

in fact most of them are so damn bad that i woln't touch a random squad even for fcc aka the easiest instance ever these days...

that said most of the DD and support classes are teribad as well remember to hate everyone equaly

if you have read the info on these formus you can BS your way into a squad claiming your exped thats how i got the few gammas i did and my 1st fcc (dear god i hate sanc style gamma >.<)

seriously...lie it works and if your faction is that unhelpfull then find a more usefull one

if its a salve to your morals remember...your most likely better than the real "exped" people just by virtue of reading around (does not mean you should not listen to advice)

and whats wrong with farming gear with people regardless of personal like or dislike?skill is skill

that said if somone is truely willing to learn they can get a group of freinds and figure out an instance the way the 1st people did (the ones your calling lazy) hell you have it easier with all the guides

its possible to learn somethign w/o it being spoonfeed and imo a lot more fun

theres many many ways to get what you need aside from begging in fac nobody is obligated to help you you have no greater or lesser need than anyone else go do it yourself with others of your skill level if you cant beg your way into another squad

/rant (we heartless capitalists need a thread or 2 about beggars)

Ignathas - Sanctuary

i play this game for 2nd year now and i only learned how to delta recently too so? never liked it and still dont like it even if i dont have to do anything there.. about the qq people - they must have achieved nothing in real life and got an ingame god-complex its that simple.. im nirvana addict myself these days and i do say if some1 dont know what hes doing but i do explain cos explaining is not that hard :>
there was some cartoon ive seen long ago, it had smth like 'in real life im just an engineer, but here, i am protector of light, defender of the people, and ruler of the world, i am invincible leader of all'.. b:chuckle

Hisuna - Sanctuary

When it comes to me personally, I'm always more than happy to teach someone anything they want to know. Somebody has to, because no matter how much people say "go read a guide", not everyone will, and even those that do... do not always get what they need from them. It's not wrong for some people to need more help than others. I agree with Silest in that this is definitely an elitist age, but it has been getting that way for a long time, so those of us who have been around forever have been able to adjust along with it. I don't really agree with the speed at which people level these days. I find it ridiculous to be honest, but since that's the way things are, I will still always try to teach people what they need to know so that they can be better players and get more from the game. The only thing that really gets on my nerves, is people pretending to know what they are doing when they don't. If you don't know how to do something, say it and I can help you. If you lie about it and cause problems instead, then I would be much less inclined to be helpful.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

It's at least a small comfort for me and my husband to see there's a handfull of people thinking the same, or relatively the same way as we do.

But Joshcja, I agee and disagree with you on some things, i really appreciated your input cause you made some real strong point stand out. But here's what i'm getting at.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

a lot of the barbs and clerics on sanc really are terribad

in fact most of them are so damn bad that i woln't touch a random squad even for fcc aka the easiest instance ever these days...

that said most of the DD and support classes are teribad as well remember to hate everyone equaly

this wasn't a thread to dish out or rage at the higher lvl peeps, or the peeps with "uber" gear not allowing anyone else in with lesser gear and all that stuff. No.
I'm asuming the greater majority of those people worked damn hard for those items and lvl's.

I'm just saying that me and my husband worked damn had for our items and lvls as well.
But what good does it do us if were denied from squads because were inexpierenced ?

if you have read the info on these formus you can BS your way into a squad claiming your exped thats how i got the few gammas i did and my 1st fcc (dear god i hate sanc style gamma >.<)

seriously...lie it works and if your faction is that unhelpfull then find a more usefull one

if its a salve to your morals remember...your most likely better than the real "exped" people just by virtue of reading around (does not mean you should not listen to advice)

we both dont feel comfortable with lieing our way into a squad and just make a big fool out of ourself when push comes to show and we know jack.
but how else are we and many with us supposed to learn if ( majority of the people ) doesn't take you along, because your inexped.
it's a vicious circle for some.

and whats wrong with farming gear with people regardless of personal like or dislike?skill is skill

that said if somone is truely willing to learn they can get a group of freinds and figure out an instance the way the 1st people did (the ones your calling lazy) hell you have it easier with all the guides

Alright Lazy might not have been a great word to use X.x ... I agree, why not do it like they did and go about learning ourself, BUT fact of the matter is and what i'm getting at is, you need more people. The people that CAN get into that instance only take people they know or are exped. People from their faction or people that, indeed, lie and BS their way into a squad. With the latter you got a 50/50 chance to muck it up and eventually they will either slander your name in WC for being inexped and ruining your further chances of getting into a new squad or indeed... teach you the hard way after getting pissed.


Concerning the People in our faction are casualty players, and arent always online when we are so creating a faction squad is hella hard 90% of the time.
Then there's the fact that, in my husband's case, he's the only lvl 100 in the faction so creating a 100+ squad for delta is even MORE difficult. @_@
and i have no doubt this will be the exact same situation for alot of people...

its possible to learn somethign w/o it being spoonfeed and imo a lot more fun

theres many many ways to get what you need aside from begging in fac nobody is obligated to help you you have no greater or lesser need than anyone else go do it yourself with others of your skill level if you cant beg your way into another squad

/rant (we heartless capitalists need a thread or 2 about beggars)

I know no one is obligated or forced to help. and i'm not saying they should or trying to force them or make them feel bad about not helping ( -snorts- as if that were even possible XD )

I'm not saying that i dont -understand-. I'm saying that, Yes it takes time, yes it takes alot of patience and being persistant.
But, IF more higher lvl people would be a bit more tolerant of letting inexped people into the squad and tell them there'd BE alot less inexped people.
More people in these end game instances means alot more people are able to afford better gear, which on the long run effects the amount of (hopefully ) better DD's and (pray to which ever god you believe in) better tanks/healers.

Katzyn - Sanctuary

I think part of the problem is, also, that yes, a lot of people do get into certain groups, and they stay there, like another member somewhat-nastily said. But it's not to exclude others, or use each other, in every case.

For instance, my husband is a cleric, too. Which means when I delta, it's with him. And with our barb. And sometimes with our archer-friend, when he's not being a punk. Then we have to pull randoms to finish the squad, and hardly anyone wants duplicates of any class, especially, say, a cleric or barb. So we can't teach, unless we want to specifically run a training run, and that can cost money - charms/repairs, mostly. And on top of that, most of the 100s I personally know, HATE delta anyway, and wouldn't -want- to go on a training run for the hell of it, rofl.

Which totally sucks for people who feel they're just not quite "getting it" yet. But, and I do hate to say it, that's why people have made videos and guides. You do the best you can, studying those first, then polish your learned skills by going and trying. And you know what? If you fail the first couple of times, oh well. If people expect you to be perfect, then the noobishness is on them, and tell them to suck it up and stop being so high and mighty. We all had to learn.

Damewort - Sanctuary

I had similar problem. Just I did gamma before, so I knew at least the basics of Rebirth idea as whole. I couldn't get a squad who would teach me. Instead I got a good friend who was doing deltas and he did 2 things for me:
1. Made an "example" run to Delta. Meaning - we got enough people to get in. We didn't summon mobs. And most of other people just left when we was in. Only me, him and another veno was left. I got showed where I should go, what should I do, where I should stand, when to run to kite boss, where to stand waiting for him, around were to run with him, when to come back.
2. Introduced me to a veno who was rather good at Delta. She told me the basics of delta. Details what I should know and answered all my questions.

Out of luck got my first delta run only after a while, where I learned that there are things I didnt know... Was even full run, I think. So after it I sent the said veno more questions how to fix the faults I made. Second time went just fine :P But it turns out I hate Delta... Not even half as fun as Gamma.

My advice would be to just take him in there so he could see around. Take one person who knows at least a bit about it, so he could explain where to stand and when. So your hubby gets not only verbal info, but also visual with seeing how it all looks like and so ^^ No need to summon mobs, so even orders shouldn't get wasted.

Training cleric isn't that bad. Cause as it was told - cleric mostly BBs. As for killing bosses... it depends a lot on squad. I was taught that I tank 1st and 2nd boss between runs. Later it started to change - clerics mostly tanked first one, I did the second. Cleric doing both wasn't that often.

Tell him to try to join BH Delta squad? The ones to stage 2 are easy and fast, so your hubby would get some insight in there. Often squads are flexible enough to take 2 clerics along. So your hubby wouldn't need to worry if something goes wrong.

Or even better... join Outlaw. b:avoid We got some people who are good at delta and nice enough to help you to learn it.

XTaixVenomx - Sanctuary

Katzyn - Sanctuary wrote: »

You just gotta find people who are willing and good at teaching...

Our faction's delta barb (close friend of mine) was taught a couple of months ago, by some close friends in another faction...they taught him in a full delta run, all the while, talking him through it on vent. My husband and I, while not in the run, listened in and learned as well.

I had to do my own research, finding videos and guides, to figure out the veno's job, since it's in an entirely different area half of the time...

I gave up on my veno.. got sick of being told im tanking when i pick veno as a caster with a pet for support.... not to be a squishy tank...

Xoria - Sanctuary

For a cleric, delta is just a piece of cake. As mentioned beforehand, we spend most our lives in BB. Some squads will ask someone to count (usually the cleric as they really don't do much during the waves themselves). This not only lets the barb know it's time to go and gather (he or she may not be able to see through all the effects or monsters themselves) but also lets the veno know when it's time to hold a boss off during the later waves.

Sometimes BB will fall. What skills you use and how well you can identify who is holding which mobs and how many, will determine if the squad will be able to "recover" or if the quest turns into a total wipe. This is under the assumption that BB was in cool- down or there wasn't enough sparks, or both. Tanks are usually your top priority to keep alive; this would be the BM and the barb as they often trade aggro throughout the 4 hours of fighting.

Bosses and timers: Each boss alllows 15 minutes from the time they are attacked before the Destroyer is summoned and 1 shots Harpy in the back. The only boss that does not follow this rule is the very first one (his timer starts automatically). Always make sure you have your squad chat set to see common chat for when bosses are confronted and always have your timer showing from your quest list.

The odd- squad builds are do- able, it just takes some... "creative"... playing. Double cleric delta anyone? Seriously, the best delta squad I was ever in was 2 barb/2 BM/ 1 cleric/ 1 Wiz.