Switching to fists

grimreaperhc

Hi guys,

I have a few questions and I`ll be really grateful if you give me some tips and advices b:thanks
So, here it is - I`m an pretty strange build, double axes but with too much vitality I guess ( some of the higher lvl BMs don't have as much hp as me ). For a few days I think about switching to fists and keeping my axes only when I need to AoE etc. The problem is that I have no idea what my stats should be, which one I should reset etc. I spoke with a fists BM in my server, but I still have a few question and I don't want to bother him >.>
So, here are my stats :

Str : 196 with gear, around 175-180 without gear
Vit : 99 with gear, around 85 without gear
Mag : 7 (don't ask lol)
Dex : 68

I`m currently level 66 ( almost 67 ) and I wonder if I should begin putting all my points in dex so I can reach the needed dex or to keep on going as I did so far. What do you think about it ?

I`m going to bed now, so I`ll take a look at your posts tomorrow, thanks everybody in advance b:thanks
Have a nice day/evening or sweet dreams b:victory

LifeHunting - Lost City

Well if your willing to buy a reset note so that you can reset up to 100 in each area (I think it's 15 gold....or you could buy some of the cheaper ones) ....You can potientally reverse your whole build and make a new one.

The basic fist build is 3 str, 2 dex. Which is also the basic all path build.
This build allows you to work with any weapon, but will mainly focus on Axe and Fist.




since I know michael is back i'll let him go into more detail since I'm personally not to sure of what all you can do to get into a fist build from where your at :x

Okeano - Harshlands

*Points to siggy*

Lyndura's guide tells you how many STR and DEX each level you need for fists. As mentioned, you'll need close to 3 STR and 2 DEX per level for both axes and fists of current level. I say close to because you'll get some stat points from gears so your base stat doesn't have to be exactly 3-2.

Total points of STR at 66 if 3 STR per level = 3*65+5
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2 DEX ~~~~~= 2*65+5

TheDan - Sanctuary

If you're only worried about damage output; I'd just go the standard fist/axe build at 3 str / 2 dex build. Personally, I've never followed an exact build pattern; I like to stay quite flexible. I've always prioritized survivability over damage. If you're worried about your survivability and you like having high HP/Defense like I did, I'd recommend you putting in minimum Dex for your fists, and minimum Str for your axes. When you reach higher levels you can slowly restat back to 3 vit when your refines get up there and pump Str for more damage.

Fist build is complemented by interval equipment, so you'll want to look into that when you're leveling up more. Fists are most effective on single target enemies, most often bosses in TT/BHs/etc.

For the most part, at the lower levels you'll still want to AoE grind for exp to power level, so I'd still be putting in the coin/spirit to level up the AoEs.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Hmmm, I do need some sort of direction for a BM build too. I am currently a claw Barb at 4.0 aps, and from reading some topics, the 3 str and 2 dex thing seems to be the "magic" numbers to a fist/axe build.

I plan on lvling a BM and just swapping gears between my Barb and future BM. rofl

Already some nice info has emerged from this thread.

More advice is always nice too! :P

grimreaperhc

Thanks everyone for your kind answers. I guess I will just have to put all my points in dex now b:shutup

Can I have some info about the end game stats of a axes/fists BMs ? I heard that they should have around 220 str, 3 vit and all the rest in dex. Is that true or I should consider it ?

Now here are the exact stats, the stats in the first post were by memory b:surrender

Vit : 99 with gear, 85 without gear.
Str : 196 with gear, 185 without gear.
Dex : 73
Mag : 7
Level 67

If my str is close to the end game str needed I`ll just quit adding points there and I`ll add all of them in dex until I gather the coins for a reset note. Thanks once again b:thanks

LifeHunting - Lost City

End-game axe/fist stats are:

300 str (w/o equips)
200 dex (w/o equips)
rest is usually put into vit.


With equips the str comes up to somewhere near 350, and dex is somewhere near 250. As for vit, it depends on if they added +vit stones, if they did then the vit could be somewhere in the 100-150 range.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hmmm, I do need some sort of direction for a BM build too. I am currently a claw Barb at 4.0 aps, and from reading some topics, the 3 str and 2 dex thing seems to be the "magic" numbers to a fist/axe build.

I plan on lvling a BM and just swapping gears between my Barb and future BM. rofl

Already some nice info has emerged from this thread.

More advice is always nice too! :P

Is your BM going demon? That will help in knowing what kind of interval set up you'll want, otherwise 3 vit, max Str and 200 dex.

GrimReaperHC wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your kind answers. I guess I will just have to put all my points in dex now b:shutup

Can I have some info about the end game stats of a axes/fists BMs ? I heard that they should have around 220 str, 3 vit and all the rest in dex. Is that true or I should consider it ?

Now here are the exact stats, the stats in the first post were by memory b:surrender

Vit : 99 with gear, 85 without gear.
Str : 196 with gear, 185 without gear.
Dex : 73
Mag : 7
Level 67

If my str is close to the end game str needed I`ll just quit adding points there and I`ll add all of them in dex until I gather the coins for a reset note. Thanks once again b:thanks

I'd say 200 Dex (with equips) and anything above 272 Str (with equips) is end-game for me. I personally like to pump Str as much as I can. I have around 411 Str, 3 magic, 3 vit, but the absolute minimum Str you need to equip GX's is 272, and about 198 dex for Striking Dragons.

LifeHunting - Lost City

Oh hey Dan! You ever planning to go for lvl 105?

Knownase - Heavens Tear

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Is your BM going demon? That will help in knowing what kind of interval set up you'll want, otherwise 3 vit, max Str and 200 dex.

Yea, very likely going Demon.

TheDan - Sanctuary

LifeHunting - Lost City wrote: »

Oh hey Dan! You ever planning to go for lvl 105?

Eventually... 70% from 104 right now.

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yea, very likely going Demon.

Demons need -0.35 for 5aps and sages need -0.40 for 5aps. For gear set up, if you can afford Tome and Nirvana pants, skip LA altogether, if not I'd get LA wrists and boots with any HA mix between chest pants belt. Refining your armors with a 5% HP neck to balance out any lost Vit you're putting into Str should be a priority if you're going to be pulling aggro the entire time, you're going to be tanking. Eventually all end-game fist BMs will restat back to 3 Vit so it doesn't hurt to get a head start on it.

LXianghual - Heavens Tear

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Demons need -0.35 for 5aps and sages need -0.40 for 5aps. For gear set up, if you can afford Tome and Nirvana pants, skip LA altogether, if not I'd get LA wrists and boots with any HA mix between chest pants belt. Refining your armors with a 5% HP neck to balance out any lost Vit you're putting into Str should be a priority if you're going to be pulling aggro the entire time, you're going to be tanking. Eventually all end-game fist BMs will restat back to 3 Vit so it doesn't hurt to get a head start on it.

Ummm, isn't it -0.40 for demons and -0.45 for sages to reach 5aps?

TheDan - Sanctuary

LXianghual - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ummm, isn't it -0.40 for demons and -0.45 for sages to reach 5aps?

Yeah, forgot to add the 99 set bonus when I was adding up.

grimreaperhc

Hey guys,

I`m now putting all my points into dex and meanwhile I`m getting the matts for my TT70 gear. This way I`ll sell my current gear and hopefully I`ll get enough coins for a reset note. Then I`ll reset my vit and put everything into dex. b:victory
But yet, I`ll need coins for skills and fists ... ouch lol b:cry

Joshcja - Sanctuary

GrimReaperHC wrote: »

Hey guys,

I`m now putting all my points into dex and meanwhile I`m getting the matts for my TT70 gear. This way I`ll sell my current gear and hopefully I`ll get enough coins for a reset note. Then I`ll reset my vit and put everything into dex. b:victory
But yet, I`ll need coins for skills and fists ... ouch lol b:cry

tt 70 gear sucks

use the coin to get good 3* armor and a set of - int arms either -.05 or bracers of blood moon for -.1

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

I skipped the tt 70, and 80 gear, there were as someone else pointed out far cheaper alternatives to it.

I started out as swords, then at 6x went axes, then 9x fists. =x Now I am using skills from all of those weapon paths.

My stats are as follows: (natural stats)

Vitality = 70
Strength = 247
Magic = 5
Dexterity = 193

I capped it out at those stats just purely for the decides, can't really see going after the nirvana weapon you can make the decides into. I intend to keep the costs of my weapons/gear to an absolute minimum. Though I might reset my stats way later on to make sure I can get that weapon, but I doubt I will.

I also plan on getting the tt90 gold axes when/if I reach 105, though again I highly doubt I will remain playing that long. Though if I do, I believe it will be a kick *** combo. I'll probably even go after the tt100 blade.

It's not really about the stats/weapon you get, but rather how you play your character, use the right combos with your fists/claws and you'll be a real good player, and even listen to the advice of others sometimes. =x I could make suggestions on combos for pve, but as for pvp, I really don't know, and I don't know how my stat distribution works in pvp.

EDIT: If you are going fists for tanking, I would highly suggest not tanking until you have a lot of - interval to keep aggro, fists alone just doesn't allow you to keep aggro over others. (if you want them for just chi, and not attacking they are the same attack speed as your fists alone, so if you want them for some quick chi just use your fists alone, it's far cheaper.) xD I wont tank anything beyond 59 on my bm anymore until I have the - interval to keep aggro from others. =x lol

(sorry for the way late edit had to go somewhere)

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yea, very likely going Demon.

Good choice if you can't afford the two extra interval pieces. I went demon on my BM, started to stack up sage skills, without ever bothering using demon skills besides the spark, because I had a SOT (5 APS demon) and was on my way to nirvana legs before quitting, which would have put me at 5 APS sage. Everything always has it's pros and cons, but the pro for me was the constant dmg reduction (sage spark) with the same APS and better fist mastery + bell. The cons were it requires doing cyclone and more difficult to be lazy and afk / spark macro through bosses. b:chuckle

Michael_Dark - Lost City

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Good choice if you can't afford the two extra interval pieces. I went demon on my BM, started to stack up sage skills, without ever bothering using demon skills besides the spark, because I had a SOT (5 APS demon) and was on my way to nirvana legs before quitting, which would have put me at 5 APS sage. Everything always has it's pros and cons, but the pro for me was the constant dmg reduction (sage spark) with the same APS and better fist mastery + bell. The cons were it requires doing cyclone and more difficult to be lazy and afk / spark macro through bosses. b:chuckle

Your DPS would be worse. Even if you successfully cancel-cast Cyclone that's stilll an extra 2-3 hits a demon BM would have, or 10+ if you fail... in the time you could try do that, I could cancel DBB and get another 135% fire damage. Add to that Demon HF is one of the most broken skill effects in the game, especially if you have another 5aps permasparking...

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Your DPS would be worse. Even if you successfully cancel-cast Cyclone that's stilll an extra 2-3 hits a demon BM would have, or 10+ if you fail... in the time you could try do that, I could cancel DBB and get another 135% fire damage. Add to that Demon HF is one of the most broken skill effects in the game, especially if you have another 5aps permasparking...

HF would obviously not be a reason I'd be switching to sage, which is why it wasn't mentioned. Sounds logical about losing a few hits to cyclone presuming both already have sparks acquired, but that was covered already. Plus, cyclone would get one faster to spark with 5 APS than a base 3.33, so to me it evens out. Was very much aware of the potential shortfalls, just didn't care as they are very trivial in the bigger picture, and I prefer to focus on the beneficial aspects. I made my BM for COA and Nirvana mostly, so the DR is quite useful to me for more smooth runs, along with the passives for more damage and bell for better squad PDR.

grimreaperhc

Hey guys,

thanks everybody for the responses ! b:victory
I feel great to receive tips from so many awesome BM's out there.
I`m going for the TT70 gear cuz I don't have any coins for anything else. At least I`ll just get the matts for the gear and after that I`ll think about switching to something else.
Tanking is not a problem, I don't mind it if I`m not tanking, even better - lower repair bills b:laugh
So, any idea about good fists for like ... lvl 75-80 ? Thanks in advance and please excuse me for being lazy and not checking the forums for such fists myself, but after 5 hours sleep and 15 hours awake I`m becoming reaaaaaaaally lazy. I guess I`ll fall asleep here at work
Thanks again!

Grim

TheDan - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

HF would obviously not be a reason I'd be switching to sage, which is why it wasn't mentioned. Sounds logical about losing a few hits to cyclone presuming both already have sparks acquired, but that was covered already. Plus, cyclone would get one faster to spark with 5 APS than a base 3.33, so to me it evens out. Was very much aware of the potential shortfalls, just didn't care as they are very trivial in the bigger picture, and I prefer to focus on the beneficial aspects. I made my BM for COA and Nirvana mostly, so the DR is quite useful to me for more smooth runs, along with the passives for more damage and bell for better squad PDR.

I was a 5APS Sage for 1.5 years before switching to 5APS Demon for the last 6 months; I have to disagree that the 25% DR from Sage Spark is a big factor; it overrides BB and makes you take more damage in many cases. Sage 5APS is more DPH, but less DPS because of Cyclone heel and DBB.

I've survived longer as a Demon and have done better in Nein Beast/Celestial Tiger event in terms of DPS as well. Reasons being: balanced marrows, better armor, better ornaments, 5APS spark macro and better damage from DBB; it pretty much nullifies having the 25% damage reduction if you're going to have 3K less HP/1.6K Mage def/2.5K Phys Def wearing LA99 as a Sage instead of my 4 socket Heavenrage boots/4 socket HH99 wrists/Warsong Belt as a Demon.

GrimReaperHC wrote: »

Hey guys,

thanks everybody for the responses ! b:victory
I feel great to receive tips from so many awesome BM's out there.
I`m going for the TT70 gear cuz I don't have any coins for anything else. At least I`ll just get the matts for the gear and after that I`ll think about switching to something else.
Tanking is not a problem, I don't mind it if I`m not tanking, even better - lower repair bills b:laugh
So, any idea about good fists for like ... lvl 75-80 ? Thanks in advance and please excuse me for being lazy and not checking the forums for such fists myself, but after 5 hours sleep and 15 hours awake I`m becoming reaaaaaaaally lazy. I guess I`ll fall asleep here at work
Thanks again!

Grim

The search function would help, lazy Mod. b:chuckle There aren't really any good fists from level 75-80 because none have interval, so it shouldn't matter too much which fists/claws you're going to get. I'd recommend just getting any fist/claw and replacing them at level 85 for FCC fists for interval. You can always work on your axe branch for AoE grinding and HF to make coin, level up and gear up while waiting for 85 though.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Good fists till 80? 3* Instant Strike Fist, level 73. Those work nicely till 80 when you can get TT80 or till 85 when you get green/gold FCC fists.

Gold FCC fists cost 15m-20m which is a lot at that level.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

HF would obviously not be a reason I'd be switching to sage, which is why it wasn't mentioned. Sounds logical about losing a few hits to cyclone presuming both already have sparks acquired, but that was covered already. Plus, cyclone would get one faster to spark with 5 APS than a base 3.33, so to me it evens out. Was very much aware of the potential shortfalls, just didn't care as they are very trivial in the bigger picture, and I prefer to focus on the beneficial aspects. I made my BM for COA and Nirvana mostly, so the DR is quite useful to me for more smooth runs, along with the passives for more damage and bell for better squad PDR.

If the new expansion releases one more piece of -interval gear, which it is likely to do, going sage will be a lot more balanced than it is now.

Damage reduction for CoA isn't needed. Damage reduction + bloodpaint in Nirvana would make going without a cleric much easier if it's not a 'fast' party and you're tanking. The real downfall of sage spark is that BB will override it... and almost any time you would actually need your damage reduction, your party will most likely need it too and there will probably be an EP with BB up.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Good fists till 80? 3* Instant Strike Fist, level 73. Those work nicely till 80 when you can get TT80 or till 85 when you get green/gold FCC fists.

Gold FCC fists cost 15m-20m which is a lot at that level.

3*** with interval seems viable, but can be expensive to get.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

If the new expansion releases one more piece of -interval gear, which it is likely to do, going sage will be a lot more balanced than it is now.

Damage reduction for CoA isn't needed. Damage reduction + bloodpaint in Nirvana would make going without a cleric much easier if it's not a 'fast' party and you're tanking. The real downfall of sage spark is that BB will override it... and almost any time you would actually need your damage reduction, your party will most likely need it too and there will probably be an EP with BB up.

I duo'd Nirvana runs with my wife, who wasn't a sin, well.. not yet, though we both kinda quit playing back in mid September, and we both played 2 chars each (her 5 APS BM and her cleric -- my BM and veno, with maybe cleric or wizard subbing if they had the keys). BB isn't a concern of overriding in Nirvana since BB gets knocked down since they updated it to seal. Even with 5 APS certain magic mobs would be a major pain in the *** in COA. The only mob I could think of besides the ant that was fairly easy without having to use pots or charm tick and that gave decent # of orbs was that chintien-looking mob that does the metal DOT + debuff. The more annoying ones were the Holeen/Frost looking mob, and Polearm.