Pet skills: Am I on the right track?

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Let's say minimum (icicle 2 and howl 1) and maximum (icicle 5 and howl 5.)

Let's just do Wurlord 2-1 since the pdef:mdef ratio is about the same for all 3.

Howl 1 is a 20% def debuff 50% of the time (15 sec, 30 sec cooldown).

1645 pdef
1151.5 pdef w/ Ironwood
1188 mdef 50% of the time
950.4 mdef 50% of the time

Translating these into damage transmitted at level 85:
74.7% Bash damage transmitted
(74.1% + 78.2%)/2 = 76.1% Icicle damage transmitted (+ extra spell damage)

Howl 5 is a 36% def debuff 50% of the time (15 sec, 30 sec cooldown).

1151.5 pdef w/ Ironwood
1188 mdef 50% of the time
950.4 mdef 50% of the time

Translating these into damage transmitted at level 85:
74.7% Bash damage transmitted
(74.1% + 81.7%)/2 = 77.9% Icicle damage transmitted (+ extra spell damage)

If you assume that Ironwood is applied at all times, then the regular pet damage remains the same so the exact level of Icicle and Bash becomes irrelevant (as long as they are the same). You'll lose a little bit of damage due to the time it takes for the pet to use Howl, but the extra spell damage should more than compensate for that. So yeah, Howl + Icicle > Bash + Ironwood against Wurlord.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Let's just do Wurlord 2-1 since the pdef:mdef ratio is about the same for all 3.

Howl 1 is a 20% def debuff 50% of the time (15 sec, 30 sec cooldown).

1645 pdef
1151.5 pdef w/ Ironwood
1188 mdef 50% of the time
950.4 mdef 50% of the time

Translating these into damage transmitted at level 85:
74.7% Bash damage transmitted
(74.1% + 78.2%)/2 = 76.1% Icicle damage transmitted (+ extra spell damage)

Howl 5 is a 36% def debuff 50% of the time (15 sec, 30 sec cooldown).

1151.5 pdef w/ Ironwood
1188 mdef 50% of the time
950.4 mdef 50% of the time

Translating these into damage transmitted at level 85:
74.7% Bash damage transmitted
(74.1% + 81.7%)/2 = 77.9% Icicle damage transmitted (+ extra spell damage)

If you assume that Ironwood is applied at all times, then the regular pet damage remains the same so the exact level of Icicle and Bash becomes irrelevant (as long as they are the same). You'll lose a little bit of damage due to the time it takes for the pet to use Howl, but the extra spell damage should more than compensate for that. So yeah, Howl + Icicle > Bash + Ironwood against Wurlord.

I think there might be a mistake there... shouldn't the debuffed mdef for howl 5 be lower than that for howl 1?

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Personally, I'd only max the pet skills if I weren't going to buy the Legendary pet ( Glacial - Hercules or Sawfly-Phoenix) but when it comes to DD/debuff/support/whatever you call it pet those skills should be maxed because it won't become obsolete after buying the Legendary pet.

Who will want to buy a used pet when they can tame one themselves and lvl the skills or buy the skill they want?You could just upgrade pets along the way as they already come with lvled up skills.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

You really don't need to max out all your skills on a non Leg. pet as you won't be doing any soloing in instances with it.You will mostly be doing instances in squad which there are other dds there like Barb and Wiz. do the main parts of the damage.Venos are there for support and if you see a mob getting close to the squad while attacking the boss target them or it.

You can solo all you want in the persistent world but you don't need but still don't need lvl 5 skills a lvl 3 bash along with a lvl 10 heal pet will do.

This argument could be made about Venomancer skills, not just pet skills... But apropiately leveled pet skills do provide an advantage to any squad. Tough goes from 30% damage reduction to 50% which could make a difference if a pet needs to tank for a small bit, while the tank is being ressed for instance. A skill like Roar would come in handy on this scenario to take aggro away from the DDs... Fully skilled and leveled pets do provide an edge, especially when you factor in most of the more commonly used pets are usually caught at lower levels. Some, like the Dark Wanderer, do in fact require some skilling just to become competent.

Howl, likely a veno's most important support skill, goes from dropping mag def by one fifth to a full third when maxed, this is a difference that will most likely benefit a squad, as will increasing Bash damage from 120% to 200%. Three Bashes will increse damage output by almost the same amount as same level Claw. Fully skilling and maxing pets is important to venos who will be using them for the long term, and likely one of the cheapest investments in terms of incresed capabilities you can make on your veno.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

Who will want to buy a used pet when they can tame one themselves and lvl the skills or buy the skill they want?You could just upgrade pets along the way as they already come with lvled up skills.

Leveled up and skilled pets are unfortunately a tough sell since the gaming culture in PW-MY (which our version inherited) favored leveling your own pets, which does hold some advantages. However this doesn't make these pets worthless, only difficult to sell. A leveled up fully skilled pet should certainly be worth more, whether enough to offset the investment should also factor in the extra coin those pets produced because of modifications, the pet's main aggro skill being the most visible and easier to quantify.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think there might be a mistake there... shouldn't the debuffed mdef for howl 5 be lower than that for howl 1?

Right. It's 760, not 950. But the damage transmitted figures are correct.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

This argument could be made about Venomancer skills, not just pet skills... But apropiately leveled pet skills do provide an advantage to any squad. Tough goes from 30% damage reduction to 50% which could make a difference if a pet needs to tank for a small bit, while the tank is being ressed for instance. A skill like Roar would come in handy on this scenario to take aggro away from the DDs... Fully skilled and leveled pets do provide an edge, especially when you factor in most of the more commonly used pets are usually caught at lower levels. Some, like the Dark Wanderer, do in fact require some skilling just to become competent.

Howl, likely a veno's most important support skill, goes from dropping mag def by one fifth to a full third when maxed, this is a difference that will most likely benefit a squad, as will increasing Bash damage from 120% to 200%. Three Bashes will increse damage output by almost the same amount as same level Claw. Fully skilling and maxing pets is important to venos who will be using them for the long term, and likely one of the cheapest investments in terms of incresed capabilities you can make on your veno.

Barbs can still do this even with no Veno in squad and they are the Tank as i posted the Veno is there for support.We are talking pet skills here not Veno skills as to what the op wanted and I gave him a good answer not ot spend to much on non Leg Pet with the exception of an Eldergroth Marksman.

Leveled up and skilled pets are unfortunately a tough sell since the gaming culture in PW-MY (which our version inherited) favored leveling your own pets, which does hold some advantages. However this doesn't make these pets worthless, only difficult to sell. A leveled up fully skilled pet should certainly be worth more, whether enough to offset the investment should also factor in the extra coin those pets produced because of modifications, the pet's main aggro skill being the most visible and easier to quantify.

You could always buy more Sof or FF instead of buying a used pet.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

You could always buy more Sof or FF instead of buying a used pet.

Why is it that for some of you it always seems to come down to this? Yeah, you could probably buy a hundredth of an herc with the same amount of money that would greatly improve one of your current pets or get you a decently skilled pet your level...

If you're nowhere near getting a herc or know you don't even want one this is sound advice however, and is not trumped by the suggestion nickel and diming your way to a herc is the only worthwhile investment you should ever make on veno pets. Come on, really, this got old so long ago...

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why is it that for some of you it always seems to come down to this? Yeah, you could probably buy a hundredth of an herc with the same amount of money that would greatly improve one of your current pets or get you a decently skilled pet your level...

If you're nowhere near getting a herc or know you don't even want one this is sound advice however, and is not trumped by the suggestion nickel and diming your way to a herc is the only worthwhile investment you should ever make on veno pets. Come on, really, this got old so long ago...

This is not old if you have one you will know what all other say as most want Herc Venos in instances and if you plan on doing any TWing most want you to have a Nix.it is wise investment more so than upgrading pet skills.

The only one I would invest in is the eldergroth marksman.

Zahlee - Lost City

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

Barbs can still do this even with no Veno in squad and they are the Tank as i posted the Veno is there for support.We are talking pet skills here not Veno skills as to what the op wanted and I gave her a good answer not ot spend to much on non Leg Pet with the exception of an Eldergroth Marksman.

Fixed that for you. This is one of those rare times that the veno is actually a girl and not a G.I.R.L b:chuckle

Ok, seriously, I was hoping the conversation wouldn't take this route, but going from all the other threads i've read, i spose it was inevitable.

To quote myself:

Also, i'm not planning on getting a herc or nix in the near future, if ever lol. As much as i would like one, i just don't have the real life time to spend grinding/farming/merchanting endlessly, and i'm def not paying that much irl money lol. So my common pets will be with me end game

So....Since they will be with me end game I'll be maxing all skills that i feel appropriate. I just don't see the point in having a half strength pet if you can scrape up the money to max the skills, especially if your not planning on getting a leg pet.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

I might not be an expert on pet skills, but i would do this in accordance to the pets you currently have...

Darkbreed wolfkin: Personally, i would change this out with a dark wanderer. Best land dps you can get, and probably better stats over all. And the skils you put on it wouldn't be much different.
It comes with pierce, roar, and i think tough (im not in game atm, so i cant check.) Anyways, i would keep pierce and max it, especially if you play in foxform alot. Add on either bash or fleshream and lvl both up to 5. Leave roar on it, but i'm not sure if lvling it changes the aggro reset. and last, replace tough (if the pet has it.) with howl and max it.

Glacial Walker: I would say it's got a pretty good set of skills for now, but i would replace icicle with bash. You also asked about adding in threaten to use in conjunction with tough, and I think that's a nice idea. So, get bash max it, leave roar, max tough, and max threaten.

Petite sawfly: It looks like you havent done alot with this pet yet. I would say, it's probably not worth it to keep toxic mist, so I would trash that. Bash is nice to have, but flesh ream would be better for pk. Or, you could use both. I think adding in howl and maxing it on this pet would greatly benefit you seeing as when you're air questing or maybe getting pked, you'll want to kill as fast as you can. And that would still leave a 4th skill slot to pick what you like.

tweakz

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

I might not be an expert on pet skills, but i would do this in accordance to the pets you currently have...

Darkbreed wolfkin: Personally, i would change this out with a dark wanderer. Best land dps you can get, and probably better stats over all. And the skils you put on it wouldn't be much different.

Can't be best dps. Can't do reflect dmg like a Herc can, and can't hit as hard with skills as a starter Scorpion can. Not to say it's not a decent choice to make.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

Can't be best dps. Can't do reflect dmg like a Herc can, and can't hit as hard with skills as a starter Scorpion can. Not to say it's not a decent choice to make.

True, herc's reflect makes up for it's lost dps, especially when it's tanking. But, OP did state that she wasn't planning on getting a herc anytime soon if ever. That's why i suggested replacing the darkbreed with the DW. I remember right, I believe you stated that a scorpion's dps is best based off of using skills, while the DW is based off of using normal attacks. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Anyways, I also suggested the DW because it has more p def than the scorpion, thus probably being better to use grinding because of defenses. But if it was a scorpion, i'd probably suggest the same skills just without roar.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Zahlee - Lost City wrote: »

So....Since they will be with me end game I'll be maxing all skills that i feel appropriate. I just don't see the point in having a half strength pet if you can scrape up the money to max the skills, especially if your not planning on getting a leg pet.

It should be goal to any main Veno to get a Leg. pet and they all come with maxed skill already except you have to replace pounce with bash on Herc and add fleah ream to Nix.

You know I kind of regret buying Leg. pets as Veno is not my main and could of just stuck with ordinary pets.I would of bought them if Veno is my main do get the pleasure of playing it.How does it make you feel to to see all of the Herc Veno's playing around and you with none?

Zahlee - Lost City

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

I might not be an expert on pet skills, but i would do this in accordance to the pets you currently have...

Darkbreed wolfkin: Personally, i would change this out with a dark wanderer.

Thanks for the advice, i do realise that the dark wanderer has a better dps but i've become quite attached to my wolf. I think i would feel bad if i made him redundant b:chuckle. Besides, I think i just prefer a smaller pet for normal grinding, plus the idea of getting yet another pet that i have to add/level skills to is just too much for my pw wallet.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

How does it make you feel to to see all of the Herc Veno's playing around and you with none?

Honestly it doesn't bother me one bit. Even though I play everyday, i guess you could say i'm more of a casual player. It's taken me around 7 months to get to level 71 lol (although I do have a couple of alts). I havn't used hypers and i don't do bh's as daily's. I suppose this is why it doesn't bother me. I play this game in my down time from looking after my 2 small children. I play for the pure enjoyment of playing. It's just not my idea of fun to endlessly grind, or run hundreds of instances to rake up the coins to buy a legendary pet. b:surrender.

I really don't want this turned into a "What pet you should have" thread. I just wanted ideas on what skills to get for the pets i already have. b:thanks

Desdi - Sanctuary

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

How does it make you feel to to see all of the Herc Veno's playing around and you with none?

I'm sorry but I couldn't stop myself from commenting on this one b:laugh I don't say it in the mean way. Just something that really made me think about.

How would it make me feel seeing all those Venomancers with Hercules and myself with an ordinary pet? It would make me feel unique and different. I don't want to be the same thing as everyone. I don't want to have the exact same pet as everyone.
That's another reason I usually keep the Hercules in the bag when I do BHs. Although, now I rarely do BHs.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

It should be goal to any main Veno to [...]

why ?

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

It should be goal to any main Veno to get a Leg. pet

No the main goal should be not to depend on them to enjoy your gameplay. b:bye

tweakz

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

How would it make me feel seeing all those Venomancers with Hercules and myself with an ordinary pet? It would make me feel unique and different. I don't want to be the same thing as everyone. I don't want to have the exact same pet as everyone.

There's a 90+ cleric on HT that wore a very low level helmet with G1 shards. Unique and different but still stupid.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

Sorry to say this but i dont think he cares that much , if he ENJOYS the game , then there is no problem with itb:thanks

Desdi - Sanctuary

b:laugh
I was expecting your reaction tweakz but your example disappointed me.
I won't give reasons why because you won't read them anyway and...you didn't understand a single thing in my post.

By your answer, I can understand a part of your personality, opinion and perspective of the world which I have had in my mind and now it has been confirmed. You still have no freaking idea what I'm talking about right? I already know what you are thinking while reading this ( if you are reading this ) because that's the typical reaction and thoughts most people have. I mean no disrespect but that's the truth because I've seen it so many times in my life.

tweakz

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sorry to say this but i dont think he cares that much , if he ENJOYS the game , then there is no problem with itb:thanks

NP there, but don't be one of those venos expecting to get the privileges afforded by having a Herc since this isn't a single player game. Also, anyone that can put out an answer like that can handle a response like given.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Nobody mentioned anything about the Hercules and the Venomancers that complain for not being accepted in squads but this is kinda related to the previews posts...

When MistyMonk asked her question, I know she was refering to the Venomancers who feel left out and perhaps 'useless' for not having a legendary pet (we are talking about both here) but that's not the case for everyone. Being different and unique is actually something to be happy about.

When every Venomancer of your level range have the same pets (I'm talking about any pet here) then you become just 'another Venomancer with that pet'.
Well, there are the best pets for every category but there are other options, too. According to the player's skill, knowledge, investment on the pet etc. that pet can person just as well or almost as well (let's leave the legendaries out).
MANray_ calculated and proved how a Tabby can perform very well in a squad with no huge difference than the Dark Wonderer. Yeah, the latter can do this and that better and all but the Tabby was still good enough.

There is a variety of choices when it comes to pets and this was so that everyone can find a pet according to their preferences. Now, the fact that those choices are not always equal to other pets of the same category is PWI's fault for not having more good choices. (eg. foxwing vs windwalking piggy for air tanking) which resulted in what we see today: most Venomancers using the same pet

I'm an artist. I draw and create and thus the apperience of the pets was a deciding factor for me but sometimes I did sacrifice it for my own benefit (eg. getting a Hercules). Either way, as an artist I want to crate different and unique pieces of artwork. You can grab a pencil and draw a unique ugly monster. That however will not be a piece of artwork. That will be a disgusting thing. I like to create something unique but something unique that is beautiful.

Likewise, Venomancers in game will choose other pets than the most used ones but competent Venomancers will choose pretty and useful pets. Sometimes they'll sacrifice and choose a pet for sake of their squad and other times they'll stick with their choice and work to make it better. The OP for example wants to keep the pet and is trying hard to get the best out of it.

Sure, we should always give them the best pet choices. I always do it but I also provide alternative options and I respect their final decision (considering they'll try their best to perform well).

I could go further but I don't want to type way too much.
To put it in a nutshell, criticise the pet not the choice. Recommend the pet, don't force people to get it and last but not least....let people be creative. (don't start saying how x pet is creative but has **** performance....read my post again...there some limits in creativity.

tweakz

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Being different and unique is actually something to be happy about.

When every Venomancer of your level range have the same pets (I'm talking about any pet here) then you become just 'another Venomancer with that pet'.

If you amp regularly, pass sparks for HF, and Ironwood when no one else is pdef debuffing: then you're doing better than most venomancers. -not just another venomancer. If you actually do some noticeable dps: you're not just another venomancer.

MANray_ calculated and proved how a Tabby can perform very well in a squad with no huge difference than the Dark Wonderer. Yeah, the latter can do this and that better and all but the Tabby was still good enough.

Tabby can tank Stygean, and come anywhere close to the DPS w/o skills? -lol

I'm an artist. I draw and create and thus the apperience of the pets was a deciding factor for me but sometimes I did sacrifice it for my own benefit (eg. getting a Hercules). Either way, as an artist I want to crate different and unique pieces of artwork. You can grab a pencil and draw a unique ugly monster. That however will not be a piece of artwork. That will be a disgusting thing. I like to create something unique but something unique that is beautiful.

Picking a pet from a very small pool of possibilities is really low on a scale of creativity. -Try a makeover scroll instead? I really do hope you're kidding.

Go on an FF with a BM that's using Lv60 axes because they look cool. Be gleefully happy that you have to more than double the amount of time on that run because that BM can't hold aggro without being given a huge head start each time. Now one person in the squad needs to leave because they weren't expecting the run to take so dang long and they have to work. Another needs a smoke break just before the rest of the squad decides to call it quits. Oh, those lvl 60 axes were so worth it!

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Zahlee - Lost City wrote: »

Honestly it doesn't bother me one bit. Even though I play everyday, i guess you could say i'm more of a casual player. It's taken me around 7 months to get to level 71 lol (although I do have a couple of alts). I havn't used hypers and i don't do bh's as daily's. I suppose this is why it doesn't bother me. I play this game in my down time from looking after my 2 small children. I play for the pure enjoyment of playing. It's just not my idea of fun to endlessly grind, or run hundreds of instances to rake up the coins to buy a legendary pet. b:surrender.

I really don't want this turned into a "What pet you should have" thread. I just wanted ideas on what skills to get for the pets i already have. b:thanks

I am not saying you don't need a Leg. Pet just don't invest to much coin into it as it as it has no value.

Orignally Posted by Desdi
How would it make me feel seeing all those Venomancers with Hercules and myself with an ordinary pet? It would make me feel unique and different. I don't want to be the same thing as everyone. I don't want to have the exact same pet as everyone.
That's another reason I usually keep the Hercules in the bag when I do BHs. Although, now I rarely do BHs.

Fine and I don't just have a Leg pet I got other to but I won't be leveling up their skills.

Sure, we should always give them the best pet choices. I always do it but I also provide alternative options and I respect their final decision (considering they'll try their best to perform well).

Fine as well as we Clerics don't have to invest much into out skills or even revive to be or use a low lvl 10 magic sword for FC.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Tweakz and Misty you both completely misunderstood my post.
I never said a Venomancer who doesn't use amplify damage, pass sparks etc. is good, and I hate it when they don't do their job and I often "shout" at them when I FCC with my Cleric and they just freaking send scarabs non-stop.
I never said Venomancers who tame a lvl 2 pet and never invest into it are good.
I never said a Cleric should not invest into their skills. That kind of Cleric shouldn't be in squad to begin with. (and sorry but pointing out the cleric thing was a totally different topic)

I was talking about something else. Please read it again...but perhaps you're just getting the topic on a different direction so you can prove how awesome your are and how stupid I am? That's what you two seem to do lately. I really mean no disrespect here but I often see you getting things around just to make them convenient for you even if the other person never mentioned anything about this and that.

I judge pets by their appearance but this doesn't mean that I judge them only by that. If I would only look at how pretty things are I would have never bought a Hercules, I would have never invested in my armour nor my skills and I would just keep buying useless fashion non-stop and the list keeps going.
But nevermind, those who understood my post understood my point.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Tweakz and Misty you both completely misunderstood my post.
I never said a Venomancer who doesn't use amplify damage, pass sparks etc. is good, and I hate it when they don't do their job and I often "shout" at them when I FCC with my Cleric and they just freaking send scarabs non-stop.
I never said Venomancers who tame a lvl 2 pet and never invest into it are good.
I never said a Cleric should not invest into their skills. That kind of Cleric shouldn't be in squad to begin with. (and sorry but pointing out the cleric thing was a totally different topic)

I was talking about something else. Please read it again...but perhaps you're just getting the topic on a different direction so you can prove how awesome your are and how stupid I am? That's what you two seem to do lately. I really mean no disrespect here but I often see you getting things around just to make them convenient for you even if the other person never mentioned anything about this and that.

I judge pets by their appearance but this doesn't mean that I judge them only by that. If I would only look at how pretty things are I would have never bought a Hercules, I would have never invested in my armour nor my skills and I would just keep buying useless fashion non-stop and the list keeps going.
But nevermind, those who understood my post understood my point.

b:victoryb:thanks + 1

Zahlee - Lost City

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am not saying you don't need a Leg. Pet just don't invest to much coin into it as it as it has no value.

Hang on, so that would make me without a legendary pet, and only a half-assed skilled common pet? Doesn't that strike you as a bad idea? b:shocked (Sorry if that sounds a bit abrasive, but half-assed is the only thing that's coming to mind atm lol)

Don't get me wrong, I do understand your point though. If i was planning on getting a legendary pet in the near future, i wouldn't invest much into my common pets either. As it is now, i'm trying to skill my pets to try to get the most 'bang for my buck' while still not going overboard on spending coins. (IE: Keeping the icicle on the walker and adding toughen, instead of getting rid of all the skills then putting back on bash and the other skills i already have.) I just think that what you keep forgetting is that i'm not aiming to get a herc.

I would also just like to point out that i'm not anti-herc/nix. I'm just realistic in knowing what i'm going to be able to achieve with the amount of time i spend on this game. There's just no point in only half-skilling my common pets when i'm going to be using them everyday, for most likely over a year, while i penny pinch to try to save up for a herc.

Not to be a kill-joy.....but can we get back on topic now please? b:cry b:surrender

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

i don't understand this talk about "investing much" in free pets. most pet skills sell for 300k coin, and excepting the rare pet skills all of them go for less than 1m; four level-ups, to get a skill to level 5, is only 800k. so even if you totally re-skill a free pet and level all the brand new skills up to max, you've spent less than 15 million coin on it --- which, compared to the price of a legendary pet, isn't much at all. and when would you ever totally re-skill a level 80 pet in that manner, anyway?

usually, when i invest in my free pets, i'm talking less than a million coin at a time to upgrade their skills a level each. that's, what, one-eightieth the price of a herc? granted that, for me as a level-54 veno it's still a good-sized investment --- i often have to balance pet skill upgrades against my own skills, and the latter tend to win --- if i were even thinking about saving for a herc, i wouldn't blink at so small a sum.

Zahlee - Lost City

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i don't understand this talk about "investing much" in free pets. most pet skills sell for 300k coin, and excepting the rare pet skills all of them go for less than 1m; four level-ups, to get a skill to level 5, is only 800k. so even if you totally re-skill a free pet and level all the brand new skills up to max, you've spent less than 15 million coin on it --- which, compared to the price of a legendary pet, isn't much at all. and when would you ever totally re-skill a level 80 pet in that manner, anyway?

usually, when i invest in my free pets, i'm talking less than a million coin at a time to upgrade their skills a level each. that's, what, one-eightieth the price of a herc? granted that, for me as a level-54 veno it's still a good-sized investment --- i often have to balance pet skill upgrades against my own skills, and the latter tend to win --- if i were even thinking about saving for a herc, i wouldn't blink at so small a sum.

Yep, i know what your saying. I actually worked it out the other day....

If i want to further level all the skills on the walker AND the sawfly AND teach them the new skills i want for each of them (so i have all 4 slots used up), it will end up costing me 6.35 mil. That's with all skills at level 5, so that's after i'm level 80.

That's 2 fully skilled pets for the price of... barely one legendary. Granted they will never fully compare to the legendary's, but mehh i can live with that. It's also something that i know i can actually accomplish and it really isn't that much money for something i'm going to be keeping for a long time.

edit* btw that figure is without levelling roar on the walker, since it does pretty much the same job at level 1.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

Tabby can tank Stygean, and come anywhere close to the DPS w/o skills? -lol

Unlike the Wanderer the Tabby can actually Bash in some scenarios, such as with a herc tanking... The point in that thread was to illustrate the degree to which minmaxing has taken over as a prevailing attitude amongst a large part of the player base. The Tabby came to a difference of about 20 secs for every 10 minutes against the Wanderer, both working with the same squad in which the Wanderer would be responsable for a third of the dps output, already a ridiculous and unlikely scenario itself...

My Tabby's got maxed Ream, Howl, Threaten and Bash. It is not uncommon for it to noticeably outperform other pets, including hercs, when not in the tanking role.

The OP asked for advice on how to skill the pets he had chosen, and while he did not agree with everything i suggested i think he came to make smart and legitimate choices in the end. That was the point of this thread, and not a repeat of the herc debate.

And to get it straight once again, it is not that me or any other venos are against people using legendary pets (i myself hope to one day get a nix) nor that we think other pets even compare to what these can accomplish on their specialized uses. It's the idea that there's only a single pet bag configuration that can be considered competent or competitive that we are very much against. Yes, a top tier veno would very likely use a herc much of the time, but there are likely no more than a handful of such on any given server. Why? Because access to in game resources alone does not make you top tier. What pets you use are a decission that depends on your particular playstyle. I chose to use small rares as i believe situational awareness to be a critical factor in squad work, especially on the PUGs i usually like to party with. I chose the Tabby because it was the most ressilient of the choices available to me amongst fast attack pets (Cuddly Pup being the other) even if it meant lower dps. We all have our particular reasons to make any given pet choice and consider as important factors others wouldn't even think about. That's what makes veno fun.

But let's look at it from a different perspective. Herc becomes mostly obsolete after 90+ so not spending twice as much as you would for your endgame weapon (say, a Lunar) on a pet that's only the best choice for the 80-90 level range is legitimate choice to make when you factor in resource management, even if it does mean somewhat diminished capacity. Soloing doesn't count, what decissions you make regarding that aspect of the game are nobody else's bussiness. As for people trying to justify herc at high levels they can never back up their claims with actual gameplay reasons and must resort to it being "easier" to get into squads... Yes, this is a MMO, but i'm personally not willing to spend US$200 or 3-6 moths logging 3+ hours a day to boring repetitive tasks, just to fit in amongst people that don't even care to learn how to properly play the game...

Edit; I do find it important to clarify that it was Solandri who was actually responsable for the math in that thread, although any mistakes in the conclussions drawn from it are ceratinly mine.