Melee (non fox) Venomancer?

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Obviously, you haven't read my post so I'm done trying to explain. I don't need my time to be wasted.

Obviously not. You're too busy posting glittering generalities about how fabulous a fail single mob-targeting build is and tripping all over yourself. Probably not a good idea.

The best way to see if someone knows what they are talking about is putting them on the spot. I am one of the biggest proponents of a HA and HA/AA build here. It is a viable build because while a veno might not be utilizing their magic casting to a degree an AA build veno would be using, they can when they want to.

A melee, non-fox veno uses no magic, uses no skills, no debuffs, is completely useless to a squad compared to any other veno -- literally, any. The shock value of strolling into a squad using axes is long gone. Been there, done that. Being a pure sword BM or a melee, non-fox veno using axes, or a melee, axe cleric, or a melee, axe wizard in an instance like rebirth is going to get you kicked because you're useless. The justification of "as long as you play well" won't cover for a stupid build. It's clear the mentality is of the "bra burning" nature, hence, stupid.

And hilariously one veno named FoxyMichelle on this server got the clue, sort of. Saw them in a BH using only axes. When we went into AOE mobs in BH39 or 51 (pretty sure I was on my BM), she single target hit every mob. I asked where's your magic weapon? Then we got into this kind of nonsense. Let her know how this build will be entirely useless come later on. Saw her in FF down the road and while mostly using axes on the bosses (still a stupid idea not using amp, but few venos do it anyways for some reason), at very least she got the idea and was using General Summer's sword for everything else, the level 50 supply stash magic sword. Still substantially made of fail (I'd still take any other veno build over here on a FF or an RB -- I didn't make that FF squad, of course) but enough fail to make fun of to the other people in the squad and on my FL, instead of trying to get her to leave for someone more useful like before using nothing but axes. Sometimes a rude awakening is necessary. Don't want to be in a squad with someone who's so selfish about their build, and so busy trying to be different instead of smart, they'd make an instance like RB that much harder for the rest of the squad.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Marian_anna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Don't let him get to you -_- This is a war that will never be won because people wont let others just enjoy the game.

Opinions don't really matter to me. It's just irritating that I gave some examples trying to explain it and he still thinks we don't use veno skills. xDDD Ya, keep thinking all you melee veno haters until we demon ironscarab + pet pierce then smack your low physical def. a$$ x3 Wanna go melee on melee? I brambled biotch.

So ya, they'll never get us till its too late ;3 Keep slicing sister

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

what a ridiculous argument.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Ridiculous indeed. No wait, entertaining.

Marian_anna - Heavens Tear

Kittennice - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Opinions don't really matter to me. It's just irritating that I gave some examples trying to explain it and he still thinks we don't use veno skills. xDDD Ya, keep thinking all you melee veno haters until we demon ironscarab + pet pierce then smack your low physical def. a$$ x3 Wanna go melee on melee? I brambled biotch.

So ya, they'll never get us till its too late ;3 Keep slicing sister

Never stopped and don't plan on it till I hit 100 ^^

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

kamatsudash wrote: »

Hi,

I'm posting this as I've seen quite a few lvl 10+ Venomancers running around wearing heavy armor, wielding dual-maces and such. When fighting they don't cast any spells (obviously can't since not unarmed or wielding a magic weapon) and just auto-attack melee the mobs. Some of them have pets out, some don't.. and none of them use fox-form.

I thought that Veno's melee was all done in Foxform? Or can you use the fox melee skills outside of foxform?

-No, you cannot use melee skills outside of foxform besides auto attack. However, there are instances where a melee veno would transform in and out of foxform to use the foxform skills on the playing field such as purge. To do this you must place your melee weapon on hot key and if you so choose to use a magic weapon place that on hotkey as well to switch in and out of fox.

Is this just people being silly? Or is there a valid reason for just melee'ing without (80% of them had no pet out) a pet? Is it quicker and easier to level just auto-attacking with no skills rather than using pet and magic attacks?

I can't answer why some do it to be different, have a new playstyle, or just wanna have fun. Yet, I personally use this build because it is the best for me. I tried arcane and to me it was dull so I said hey let me make a melee character. Blademaster to me was missing something and a barbarian was just too dull again for me so I went back to a veno. Then I thought to bring them all into one and got my axe veno. The definition of an axe veno (VenoX) is a venomancer wearing heavy armor whose strength lies in melee combat other than magic combat yet uses one branch or both of the venomancer branches. Meaning that they are able to use the venomancer class skills as a whole to the best of their ability when need be i situations though their best strength (damage) lies in the physical sector rather than the magic sector. This is what seperates Melee HA (VenoX) from HA/AA yet makes them almost similiar. The difference is just that the HA is mostly in human form with melee weapons and the HA/AA is mostly in foxform with magic weapon (still doing melee however).

Pets are optional since most mobs are melee based in lower levels. Using a pet with a pierce skill will aid in a quicker death of a mob. Say if you have a rock dude, you can not only have several mobs fighting your pet but also yourself which is around double/same+ the killing speed of an arcane. In higher levels however, you must take note of your hoealing pet ability so that you know its limit of mobs and your's. This is a very complexed build which I encourage you to start from level one instead of restating if you want to try it out. Every level is a test of your limits and/or your pets limits.

If quicker/easier to level auto-attack melee'ing.. just how long does this last before you'd need to consider using a pet and/or switching to either foxform melee or switching to a magic weapon and casting spells?

I went to level 26 or so without a pet. It was some time when I got to arch where I decided to get one. I would say level 20-30 you can get your pet if you want to. A pet is very helpful in killing mobs while you kill another. Foxform would be more for instances or boss battles and not really in regular questing. Casting spells I hope would be when you get your pet for the pet heal, revive, and catching (if you want) and also when you are able to get that lovely metabolic boost, soul transfusion, bramble, and natures grace which can be very helpful when fighting several+ mobs by yourself without a charm and while your pet is occupied with others. Ironscarab lowers p. def so you will love that veno skill to death along with others that aid the physical combat.

Guess I'm just trying to understand the mindset of playing a "magic caster" class (which can melee, albeit in a certain form as far as I thought...) as a auto-attack melee class using no skills rather than casting magic spells or using the melee form for melee'ing..

The thing is melee venos do use veno skills, but I guess when people hear " melee" it means you can't have a hint of magic.

Sorry, Op. It was rude of me to ignore your post. I shall now answer your questions.

SanChan - Heavens Tear

ok to all the Axe Melee build users tell me 1 only 1 Reason to go that build except for the "im rare" playing Style when Melee Fox with magic win in all Categorys.

First Melee Damage : Yes its right Axe hit harder then Melee Fox but over the long 1on1 Fight Melee Fox wins cause of APS and more tripe Sparks so Melee Fox wins there (more APS = more Crit )

Second Magic Damage: Well its obviously who wins here isnt it ? i dont really need to explain why .

Third Pets : Damage of Pets is on both builds Identical but, on higher lvl mobs does AoE , so ever tried to heal Pet with an Axe build ? u wont get it up quick enough. So there are to options 1st. Dont use Pet and forgett the pet dmg or 2nd use pet and ur distracted healing ur Pet and no Dmg output of yourself . while a melee fox can just 1 heal up AoE dmg.

Fourth Point AoE DMG : Heck Melee Fox Venos can still PWN the **** out of FF mobs with Nova + Noxious and an Axe Build ?

soooooooo tell me 1 good reason to go Axe and i stop calling them Fail
kthxbye

Boundlessly - Raging Tide

IDG this need to bash certain styles of playing. I'm pretty new to PW, and having migrated from WoW I thought it was cool that I could play an "axe" venomancer, since hunters in WoW were restricted to ranged weaponry. And in the five or so hours that I've been playing PW, I've had three people tell me I'm "doing it wrong."

Um. What? I didn't realize there was a wrong way to take enjoyment from something. My playing style should have no effect on your game.

Re: OP, it's not just people being silly. There is a valid reason for it: it's fun. I thought that's the reason people played games to begin with.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

SanChan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

ok to all the Axe Melee build users tell me 1 only 1 Reason to go that build except for the "im rare" playing Style when Melee Fox with magic win in all Categorys.

First Melee Damage : Yes its right Axe hit harder then Melee Fox but over the long 1on1 Fight Melee Fox wins cause of APS and more tripe Sparks so Melee Fox wins there (more APS = more Crit )

Second Magic Damage: Well its obviously who wins here isnt it ? i dont really need to explain why .

Third Pets : Damage of Pets is on both builds Identical but, on higher lvl mobs does AoE , so ever tried to heal Pet with an Axe build ? u wont get it up quick enough. So there are to options 1st. Dont use Pet and forgett the pet dmg or 2nd use pet and ur distracted healing ur Pet and no Dmg output of yourself . while a melee fox can just 1 heal up AoE dmg.

Fourth Point AoE DMG : Heck Melee Fox Venos can still PWN the **** out of FF mobs with Nova + Noxious and an Axe Build ?

soooooooo tell me 1 good reason to go Axe and i stop calling them Fail
kthxbye

Kk, here's an Out-game example:

There's snow on the sidewalk. Would you rather A) scoop it up with a spoon at a very fast pace or would you scoop it up slowly with a large snow shovel?

In-game example:

I place vit, dex, and buckets of strength in. I believe HA/AA's place a whole lot of magic and strength enough to wear the heavy armor. Correct me if I'm wrong so my vitality will be greater. Act like we have the same refines and sharding of gear yet seperate weapons and -interval gear.

In your statement, you said "Melee" Fox veno. I can haz your skillz? If we were to go into both foxform, my p.def would be higher but your mag def would be higher than mine (in or out). Demon reflect versus demon reflect we can say was casted before both entering fox. Your DPS will be your downfall against me because my phy. def. in fox outweights your's and possibly my health bar. Same as out of fox. If you were to turn yourself into human form, that would be an open advantage to me because that foxform boost is no longer with you.

Now if you OD in magic attacks, that will kill me surely and I'm not going to lie about that. But magic attacks are the only things I have to worry about. Everyone has a weakness in this game and I'm not going to say my build has no weaknesses. That's just silly. This is like an Arcane vs. Heavy battle. Anyone can win. This is my reason and my answer.

SanChan - Heavens Tear

Well ok u have a point about ut Vit. For the Bramble, well i can go fox and purge so u need to eq mag wep to rebramble. The fox stunning blow comes in handy. im gonna use Stunning Blow on u, thats an 8 sec movement disable, i just run out of ur Axe range and cast u to death. About the Pdef part yes u have right u may have the higher pdef but only when u go fox form and axe + Foxform = no go . So the only "big" advantage is the hp but 100 Vit = 1200hp thats not much. Fox veno can get like 600 - 800 HP back per leech, which axe cant use. And now Accuracy well we have arround the same Acc if u wear Misty rings but Fox Skill befuddling Mist = 70% less acc and i can upkeep the effect the whole battle. In the end i would Win im for 99% Sure.
Here are too Builds: Heavy Fox at Fox Form (my current Fox build) http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9b09babdd5ecf9ed and my armor against Casters http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=82eccb8cdd1d842f
And an Axe Build ( ? ) http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b76420cfa1cef4a0 (gave it the 90 Gold wep cause of Double Dmg) used Same gear on Both Builds and both are full Buffed

Azura - Lost City

kamatsudash wrote: »

Hi,

I'm posting this as I've seen quite a few lvl 10+ Venomancers running around wearing heavy armor, wielding dual-maces and ........"stops reading"

They are just noobs, don't worry about them.