Well I hope you're all feeling ashamed of yourselves.

KuiXing - Harshlands · October 2010

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your post contains some good points, however, I don't know who you are talking to.

The title of your post is "I hope you're all feeling ashamed of yourselves", but who are these "you all"? Everybody who complained? Those of use who did not flame and presented our complaints forcefully but respectfully have nothing to be ashamed about.

However, just because we didn't do anything to be ashamed of doesn't mean we didn't contribute to the state of chaos. PWI forum policy has basically been a shell game of not giving answers and avoiding taking actual action, and thus there's been a slowly building backlog of dissatisfaction.

So one day the dam finally breaks. Personally, I'm not surprised, and blaming the water rather than the builder seems a bit silly to me.

I guess if you want to blame "you all", go right ahead, because it certainly fits neatly into the Us-vs-Them, Leadership-vs-Players model that PWI seems to believe in and works very hard to defend. Of course, it's that belief that created the problem in the first place.

+ Infinity and Beyond! (yes buzz-light year quote) THIS right here is the truest thing ive read other then a few of Airyll's posts since this whole ordeal began.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Oh ffs... -_-

For the last time, I admit I screwed up on the thread title. XD

Follow what's in the post, not the title. -_-

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · October 2010

I wanted to read the whole thread, but really my time as of late, just doesn't allow me to read every single post, no matter how interesting I think it might be, though for the record I did read the original post, and a few replies. (thoroughly)

I will not be commenting on every single post I read, as well not only would that be time consuming, but it could also have the side effect of getting a unsavory comment from someone, which all posts have the potential to do, even the ones that really mean no harm, someone somewhere will decide to troll it. ;/

@Original poster: You are right, too many people that feel way too strongly, about this or that... that trying to jump in and calm them down during their revolt, would just be plain futile, no amount of logic, or reason will get them to calm their rage; not, to mention when even those of us who were still calm, agree with what started the initial uproar.

----

The mods were definitely not all to blame for the turmoil that happened over the weekend, the people who started the flaming/insisted on posting their dislike in a demeaning way are just as much to blame for the chaos as the moderators. Yet, both parties are so quick to point the finger at the other, but really I can't blame them, no one likes to hold that kind of burden of the entirety of the guilt, besides I think the mod's have enough on their shoulders at the moment anyways, even before this whole ordeal started. (they were making very controversial judgment long before they chose new mods, this is just what broke the camels back.)

I am not saying the mods were right in what decisions they made this weekend, but we have either got to live to learn with their 'dumb' mistakes, or just gtfo of dodge. We obviously can't pick up another forum/start our own version and hope to get everyone there that we feel is worthy of being there, besides starting up something 'new' that you try to revamp, solves nothing for this version, where some of your friends are still playing. I know it isn't easy trying to help 'fix' this version of pw, when it seems all too futile to do/say anything that might actually be of use to the mods, but who says change is easy to see through/make happen?

Surentos - Lost City · October 2010

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not ashamed of myself, now go ahead and hate me.

I'm with this guy. I'd rather the riot kept completely psychotic and out of control. them maby(hopefully) the forums would have been shut down. nobody to read anything about classes give up on the game early and never spend a dime on this game. in the end the game has gone to hell. if you don't cs then late game you can't really do jack sh*t. 5aps bm's, 5aps archers (more doable non cs then the others), 5aps assassins, only herced veno's (not as bad as the bm/sin/archer crud). it's getting a little out of hand. and frankly if causing a riot can create a chain of events to shut things down. prevent new players. stop pwi from getting a constant flow of income. then so be it. if it doesn't then oh well game's dead anyway I won't blink or sweat a drop over it.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary · October 2010

One thing to remember is that starting a "chill out" thread is going to start more flames than it will put out. I know this from experience because I used to make "Stop QQing" threads alot. I never took into consideration both sides and only thought most were just trolling to be trolling. In chaotic situations, if you want to make a difference, in a good way, you need to maintain a neutral attitude and listen thoroughly to each argument and accusation made, but you also have to remember that there will always be a few who will appear to remain negative.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Surentos - Lost City wrote: »

I'm with this guy. I'd rather the riot kept completely psychotic and out of control. them maby(hopefully) the forums would have been shut down. nobody to read anything about classes give up on the game early and never spend a dime on this game. in the end the game has gone to hell. if you don't cs then late game you can't really do jack sh*t. 5aps bm's, 5aps archers (more doable non cs then the others), 5aps assassins, only herced veno's (not as bad as the bm/sin/archer crud). it's getting a little out of hand. and frankly if causing a riot can create a chain of events to shut things down. prevent new players. stop pwi from getting a constant flow of income. then so be it. if it doesn't then oh well game's dead anyway I won't blink or sweat a drop over it.

Would you kindly tell me why you're still here on the forums? Or in game, if it's dead?

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

@Original poster: You are right, too many people that feel way too strongly, about this or that... that trying to jump in and calm them down during their revolt, would just be plain futile, no amount of logic, or reason will get them to calm their rage; not, to mention when even those of us who were still calm, agree with what started the initial uproar.

And in addition to that, once the rage starts to calm a little, the people who were raging... well, either they've lost all hope and should just quit, or they regret what they did. Yet, approaching them with undue hostility is just going to make them angry again... which leads me into:

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

One thing to remember is that starting a "chill out" thread is going to start more flames than it will put out. I know this from experience because I used to make "Stop QQing" threads alot. I never took into consideration both sides and only thought most were just trolling to be trolling. In chaotic situations, if you want to make a difference, in a good way, you need to maintain a neutral attitude and listen thoroughly to each argument and accusation made, but you also have to remember that there will always be a few who will appear to remain negative.

Indeed... and so I knew I had to write this post very carefully from the beginning. Truth be told, I had the idea for a thread in my head since even before the riot, but the riot only sealed the deal.

Aside from a few people ignoring the entire thread's content just because I goofed up the title... I'm very satisfied with how it's gone so far. A notable lack of flames, trolling and sarcasm, and some very good discussion. So if there's a way to properly do a "chill out" thread, I humbly suggest it might be this one. :P

CTRLotus - Sanctuary · October 2010

I totally agree with the OP in this thread, however I wont be suprised if this gets locked and he gets banned anyways.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary · October 2010

CTRLotus - Sanctuary wrote: »

I totally agree with the OP in this thread, however I wont be suprised if this gets locked and he gets banned anyways.

There's no need to be suprised if the OP gets banned, because I don't believe he would. Frankie already voiced his apology for being too quick on the ban hammer friday.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=10534162&postcount=134

Miugre - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

There's no need to be suprised if the OP gets banned, because I don't believe he would. Frankie already voiced his apology for being too quick on the ban hammer friday.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=10534162&postcount=134

...well, I'm honestly shocked now. o.o That post was made yesterday? After I left work, from the looks of it.

I guess pigs really can fl-- wait, not a good example in this game. <_>

But anyway. This is... good. Really good. It's not the end, though. I should hope that Frankie continues to display the humanity he admits to having, here. But it'll be up to us to keep tabs on that. We did the same thing to spoons, too (or at least, I did).

Thanks a lot for that link, I've completely stayed out of that thread.

Baalzor - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not sure how "known" I am around here or if anyone noticed that this is the first thread I've made since the great QQ tsunami... but it is. Why didn't I post during it? Well, I was about 90% certain that nothing I said would be listened to. By anyone. And then over the weekend, well..... things went to hell, clearly.

I hate the decisions that frankie's made just as much as the rest of you. But I was not going to be part of the riot.

etc...rest of the bullcrap....

WHO ARE YOU ROFL ?!?!?!1
i love ppl who are talking about themselves the way you do...
*clapclapclapclap*

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary · October 2010

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...well, I'm honestly shocked now. o.o That post was made yesterday? After I left work, from the looks of it.

I guess pigs really can fl-- wait, not a good example in this game. <_>

But anyway. This is... good. Really good. It's not the end, though. I should hope that Frankie continues to display the humanity he admits to having, here. But it'll be up to us to keep tabs on that. We did the same thing to spoons, too (or at least, I did).

Thanks a lot for that link, I've completely stayed out of that thread.

Well there are windwalking piggies, but that's beside the point.

In all honestly, frankie has handled this whole ordeal quite well. And this is part of what I meant when I said that you have to maintain a neutral attitude. Your original post is very well thought out, but the topic is misleading (as you already pointed out you knew this) and some who choose not to read it(or read it), may take it as "****, and get over it already", when intend the post was presented in a calm, but firm way.

Miugre - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Well, I answered Frankie. :P

And yeah, the windwalking piggies were kind of the joke, there.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary · October 2010

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh ffs... -_-

For the last time, I admit I screwed up on the thread title. XD

Follow what's in the post, not the title. -_-

My issue was mostly with this line: "Well duh. You created a state of chaos. Are you proud of yourselves?"

Who is this "you"?

Your post seems to offer this as the distinction: "I hate the decisions that frankie's made just as much as the rest of you. But I was not going to be part of the riot."

So basically, if I posted negatively during the so-called riot and helped fueled the flames (even though that wasn't my goal), I'm one of the "you" that you've chosen to group together and point fingers at. Am I misunderstanding you?

Forgive me, but if that's your argument (and please correct me if I'm wrong), then it's pretty much exactly the argument authority figures around the world love to invoke in order to silence dissent. Just point to the irrational crazy members of your opposition and imply, "Hey, you're not one of THEM are you?!"

Voila! Everybody shuts up because they're scared of looking like they might be encouraging or enabling the trouble-makers.

For example, I'm Canadian, and during the 2007 Montebello riots our RCMP got caught red-handed deliberately trying to turn a peaceful portion of the protest into a violent one by using undercover cops as fake "protesters". Their reasoning was that peaceful protesters also required police resources during the riot, thus they help to fuel the riot, thus it was OK to provoke violence in order to crack the heads of the peaceful protestors in order to dissuade people from showing up to protest peacefully. It would have worked, too, except for some jerk with a cell-phone posting the video on YouTube.

Sure, some people certainly took things too far on the forums, but I'm quite happy to say that I joined in on it and supported what they had to say, even if I didn't agree with how some of them were saying it. Many got banned, but as Frankie himself has also admitted, things were not handled very well by PWI and it wasn't exactly surprising that emotions got out of control.

ValFera - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Miugre you make some valid points and i agree with a lot of them for this reason i stayed out of the fight on Friday and over the weekend.

Now what disturbs me most is the rotating signatures of the "fallen" the ones who acted out the most and got banned some for very valid stuff.

But 2 of the most prolific and funny posters have fallen by their own sword so to speak but no one has made an homage to the "REAL FALLEN MEMBERS" Hammy and Rose b:sad

Such a shame when bad behavior gets awarded and those that truly should be remembered are quickly and easily forgotten.

KuiXing - Harshlands · October 2010

b:surrender the signatures are protesting the ones WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BANNED. -cough-

Asmodiel - Heavens Tear · October 2010

LOL @ making RedsRose & Hamsta so called "fallen". They chose to leave, didn't get banned so <.<

Conavar - Heavens Tear · October 2010

KuiXing - Harshlands wrote: »

b:surrender the signatures are protesting the ones WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BANNED. -cough-

Really ? Two name's on there who were long overdue a ban tbh. All because they were banned at a certain time doesnt make them martyr's and negate the previous week's of being **** wits.

MANray_ - Sanctuary · October 2010

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Really ? Two name's on there who were long overdue a ban tbh. All because they were banned at a certain time doesnt make them martyr's and negate the previous week's of being **** wits.

THIS b:thanks

Nelae - Heavens Tear · October 2010

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Really ? Two name's on there who were long overdue a ban tbh. All because they were banned at a certain time doesnt make them martyr's and negate the previous week's of being **** wits.

Tuff luck pointing that out.
More or less you will be chewed out for saying that but you get +1 from me.

KuiXing - Harshlands · October 2010

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Really ? Two name's on there who were long overdue a ban tbh. All because they were banned at a certain time doesnt make them martyr's and negate the previous week's of being **** wits.

all im saying is that SOME should not have been banned.

EDIT: acctually most were unknown, such as SoIar and WraithTanker, who were not doing any thing bad. yes they were out of line on some posts but for the majority they were just speaking their minds and should not have been banned

Pleira - Raging Tide · October 2010

First, since I didn't want to multiple post, I'll just post this link:

My 2 cents on the situation

Now, on topic:

I have to agree with the OP and I won't mention my thoughts on the topic title. I'll be honest, though, if I hadn't been busy with the RL stuff mentioned in the link, I would have probably been dragged right into the middle of the mess and trying to restore even a little semblance of sanity. Methinks the fact I was taking care of my mom's recuperation was a blessing.

I know what I say about this will get ignored. After all, I'm one that speaks her mind firmly, but calmly...and calm folks seem to be ignored more and more. But at least I'll have spoken out honestly.

cruelintention · October 2010

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Really ? Two name's on there who were long overdue a ban tbh. All because they were banned at a certain time doesnt make them martyr's and negate the previous week's of being **** wits.

Once again some one spoils there own post by calling others names.

They may well have deserved to get baned i dont know but why did you call them **** wits ?.

Conavar - Heavens Tear · October 2010

KuiXing - Harshlands wrote: »

acctually most were unknown, such as SoIar and WraithTanker, who were not doing any thing bad. yes they were out of line on some posts but for the majority they were just speaking their minds and should not have been banned

Totally agree. Some on there might have been the result of over zealous modding, but when you group them with people who should have been banned it kinda tar's them with the same brush.

cruelintention wrote: »

They may well have deserved to get baned i dont know but why did you call them **** wits ?.

If someone act's like a fool are you not allowed to say they do ? Have you ever heard the saying " call a spade a spade " ?

cruelintention · October 2010

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Totally agree. Some on there might have been the result of over zealous modding, but when you group them with people who should have been banned it kinda tar's them with the same brush.

If someone act's like a fool are you not allowed to say they do ? Have you ever heard the saying " call a spade a spade " ?

Yes i have but you did not phrase it as being foolish, instead you chose to use prophanity and theres a difference.

Its not what you say but how you say it.

Lulznotwar - Lost City · October 2010

Although i agree with the OP about calming down and making a sensible protest on the grounds that protesting how we did got us nowhere; but how long have we been trying to be sensible with our protests around the game and the modding?

More often than not, anyone who brings up anything mildly controversial or that could be taken in any way that it was anti-pwi or anti-mod was gone or censored. Then again it is a chinese based game... and that says quite a bit *cough*comunism*cough* But i feel that EVERY TIME WE BRING A SENSIBLE CONVERSATION OR DISCUSSION FRANKIE/KANTO SAY THEY WILL WORK ON IT AND NOTHING EVER HAPPENS!

Example one, the DQ price nerf, first of all how did it run into our game? for too long we have been lumped in with the chinese server, and whenever we expressed our outrage at this frankie or kanto said they would try and do something about it, but 6-7 months down the track all we have is talk, no hard evidence they actually give a damn about it. I understand things take time, but in BoI complaints like this are fixed within 2 months from what i have seen, they actually appear to give a damn about what the general community thinks.

PWI have lost face amongst the gamers mainly because frankie hardly shows his face in anything but a disciplinairy sense, unlike spoons he hardly ever goes around talking to people ingame or not. When we had spoons and Ary there was a sense of community, of harmony, a sense that the higher-ups in PWI actually gave a damn about what we as a community think, and took our discussions onboard.

Ever since spoons left its been sales after sales, packs after packs, there have been NO gm based events, and generally **** all fun, or community building orientated Frankie has shown he has little idea of what the community wants in general. I mean damn, Reds and Hamsta although they are often a little trolly or silly, they are respectable people, and i for one would have definitely supported them as Mods, Instead we get people who no one knows, and went banhammer happy and we lost those who made the community what it was.

PWI pretty much signed the deathwarrant of an already struggling game community. CS = Power = Fun. Without CS'ing you struggle to do anything ingame unless you're a crazy merchant i for one dont really want to play anymore because wait its nigh on impossible to farm my hh90 armour anymore when a squad of 100's get oneshot by the GBA boss. Common sense has gone out the window, and more than likely no matter what we do, or say we will be ignored as always. Communism in action

Grippieluver - Lost City · October 2010

Sorry for popping in, but this is one out of MAYBE 2 threads that are still Nerdraging about things. It's time for things to settle down.

I know, random comment right?

cruelintention · October 2010

Lulznotwar - Lost City wrote: »

Although i agree with the OP about calming down and making a sensible protest on the grounds that protesting how we did got us nowhere; but how long have we been trying to be sensible with our protests around the game and the modding?

More often than not, anyone who brings up anything mildly controversial or that could be taken in any way that it was anti-pwi or anti-mod was gone or censored. Then again it is a chinese based game... and that says quite a bit *cough*comunism*cough* But i feel that EVERY TIME WE BRING A SENSIBLE CONVERSATION OR DISCUSSION FRANKIE/KANTO SAY THEY WILL WORK ON IT AND NOTHING EVER HAPPENS!

Example one, the DQ price nerf, first of all how did it run into our game? for too long we have been lumped in with the chinese server, and whenever we expressed our outrage at this frankie or kanto said they would try and do something about it, but 6-7 months down the track all we have is talk, no hard evidence they actually give a damn about it. I understand things take time, but in BoI complaints like this are fixed within 2 months from what i have seen, they actually appear to give a damn about what the general community thinks.

PWI have lost face amongst the gamers mainly because frankie hardly shows his face in anything but a disciplinairy sense, unlike spoons he hardly ever goes around talking to people ingame or not. When we had spoons and Ary there was a sense of community, of harmony, a sense that the higher-ups in PWI actually gave a damn about what we as a community think, and took our discussions onboard.

Ever since spoons left its been sales after sales, packs after packs, there have been NO gm based events, and generally **** all fun, or community building orientated Frankie has shown he has little idea of what the community wants in general. I mean damn, Reds and Hamsta although they are often a little trolly or silly, they are respectable people, and i for one would have definitely supported them as Mods, Instead we get people who no one knows, and went banhammer happy and we lost those who made the community what it was.

PWI pretty much signed the deathwarrant of an already struggling game community. CS = Power = Fun. Without CS'ing you struggle to do anything ingame unless you're a crazy merchant i for one dont really want to play anymore because wait its nigh on impossible to farm my hh90 armour anymore when a squad of 100's get oneshot by the GBA boss. Common sense has gone out the window, and more than likely no matter what we do, or say we will be ignored as always. Communism in action

In this case where its a game the best way to protest is to walk away from the game.
If the majority feels the same it will be noticed and would hurt there sales .

No one on these boards can change the game so no amount of protesting would make the slightest of difference.

As far as the board admin goes they work for the company so they wont tell you anything that may make you quit the game its not good for sales. Instead they will try to make excuses in the hope it eventualy gets forgoten.

Some posts were very insulting and no one deserves to be poken to like they were no matter how frustrating it gets.

The argument will be about time and money already invested in the game by players. Well the simple fact is dont invest anymore time or money into the game. Write it off as a loss and find a better game from a different maker and learn from the bad experience.

Pleira - Raging Tide · October 2010

Grippieluver - Lost City wrote: »

Sorry for popping in, but this is one out of MAYBE 2 threads that are still Nerdraging about things. It's time for things to settle down.

I know, random comment right?

I'm trying to get things to calm down, as you might or might not have read, but like I said, calm posters are getting more and more ignored.

Grippieluver - Lost City · October 2010

Yes, I noticed...

KuiXing - Harshlands · October 2010

Lulznotwar - Lost City wrote: »

Although i agree with the OP about calming down and making a sensible protest on the grounds that protesting how we did got us nowhere; but how long have we been trying to be sensible with our protests around the game and the modding?

More often than not, anyone who brings up anything mildly controversial or that could be taken in any way that it was anti-pwi or anti-mod was gone or censored. Then again it is a chinese based game... and that says quite a bit *cough*comunism*cough* But i feel that EVERY TIME WE BRING A SENSIBLE CONVERSATION OR DISCUSSION FRANKIE/KANTO SAY THEY WILL WORK ON IT AND NOTHING EVER HAPPENS!

Example one, the DQ price nerf, first of all how did it run into our game? for too long we have been lumped in with the chinese server, and whenever we expressed our outrage at this frankie or kanto said they would try and do something about it, but 6-7 months down the track all we have is talk, no hard evidence they actually give a damn about it. I understand things take time, but in BoI complaints like this are fixed within 2 months from what i have seen, they actually appear to give a damn about what the general community thinks.

PWI have lost face amongst the gamers mainly because frankie hardly shows his face in anything but a disciplinairy sense, unlike spoons he hardly ever goes around talking to people ingame or not. When we had spoons and Ary there was a sense of community, of harmony, a sense that the higher-ups in PWI actually gave a damn about what we as a community think, and took our discussions onboard.

Ever since spoons left its been sales after sales, packs after packs, there have been NO gm based events, and generally **** all fun, or community building orientated Frankie has shown he has little idea of what the community wants in general. I mean damn, Reds and Hamsta although they are often a little trolly or silly, they are respectable people, and i for one would have definitely supported them as Mods, Instead we get people who no one knows, and went banhammer happy and we lost those who made the community what it was.

PWI pretty much signed the deathwarrant of an already struggling game community. CS = Power = Fun. Without CS'ing you struggle to do anything ingame unless you're a crazy merchant i for one dont really want to play anymore because wait its nigh on impossible to farm my hh90 armour anymore when a squad of 100's get oneshot by the GBA boss. Common sense has gone out the window, and more than likely no matter what we do, or say we will be ignored as always. Communism in action

i cant even express how true this is, ever since spoons left nothing has been done with the game problems. everyone feels ignored by the GMs and the recent wave of banning just threw EVERYTHING over the top.

Well I hope you're all feeling ashamed of yourselves.

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