sword/blade and polearm or dualaxe
sunsio
Posts: 1 Arc User
What the title says..I'm making a bm and I want too use sword/blade but I can't choose between the polearm or the axe...plz give me some advice..and what should my stats be like..ty
Post edited by sunsio on
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Dont use swords they arent good in this game b:laugh Use claws and Axes and spears0
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Dont use swords they arent good in this game b:laugh Use claws and Axes and spears
Swords are great. Don't listen to this guy. It is just isnt as good as fist and axe.
An all weapon BM is endgame.
Fist = DD
Axe = Aoe and Stuns
Spear = 1 shotting low p defs with lvl 11 farstrike and zerk pole
Sword = 50% damage reduction and high damage range skill.AP classes are a real butt pounding...0 -
ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »Sword = 50% damage reduction and high damage range skill.
Demon GS> Demon MSS for damage. Sword's got that damage reduction... that's about it...0 -
Start with axes. Whatever other weapon(s) you wanna specialize in after that are entirely up to you and your own preference, though fists and having higher attacks per sec along with axes will affect in a positive way what squads you get into later on.0
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ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »An all weapon BM is endgame.
Fist = DD
Axe = Aoe and Stuns
Spear = 1 shotting low p defs with lvl 11 farstrike and zerk pole
Sword = 50% damage reduction and high damage range skill.
^ This. An end game BM will need to use all weapons for max efficiency. Just wanted to throw in the Axe is also good for the amazing Heaven's Flame (dragon) skill that increases damage taken.0 -
b:thanksb:thanksb:thanksb:thanksaaa0 -
JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Start with fists. Whatever other weapon(s) you wanna specialize in after that are entirely up to you and your own preference, though axes and having aoe skills along with fists will affect in a positive way what squads you get into later on.
Fixed.0 -
and they call themselves blademasters... they barely use blades0
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just avoid swords in general, theye useless. if you REALLY wanna use them, go 3 str 2 dex per leve, you can use any weapon that way0
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MSS is still the hardest hitting skill we have.
MSS can save your barb and squad wipes by 50% reduction of physical and magical attacks for 15 seconds.
Mage bane costs a spark but is 100% accurate which is useful as a final shot against dex builds, (granted, accuracy isn't normally a problem with 3/2 build). Other than pretty useless because its not worth a spark.
Pole's Farstrike is better than Sword's Sprit Chaser
If you aren't doing a linear aoe than Sword's Atmos Strike is better than Pole's Meteor Rush (more dmg, less mana).
Swords still suck but individual play is up to you. b:byeSeven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »MSS is still the hardest hitting skill we have.
With MSS, you are either using a zerk blade with joke damage, or a dual blade with no zerk, which makes Demon GS far superior damage wise. Demon GS and MSS in terms of damage is off by 100% weapon damage and like 300 add on damage. 200% weapon damage of a weak sword is still weak. The 50% chance to crit on the hit + crit for the next 5 seconds, with option of zerk pole with high base damage and high refine, makes GS a far better option damage wise. Oh and I forgot the 50% reduction in defense.0 -
ok a couple things that you previos people haven't said and don't seem to get at all. if you actually look and (experience first hand) blades dps is higher then fists unless you stack -interval. and by stack i don't mean base, i mean at least -.15
second point: if you can't afford to throw $500-1k on the game or take a seriously long *** tiem working on stacking up your -int then don't roll a bm on a pve server. 90% of the time i try to find a squad at even lvl 84 I end up not being able to get in because I don't have stacked -int and fists. it gets even worse as you lvl up. fcc and maby gamma/delta (if you can find a decent squad) are prettymuch the only pve thing's high lvl bm's can do without stacked -int fists just to warn you ahead of time. pwi ruined any bm other then fist for late game pve by requiring high dps for some instances.sanctuary
cleric - 82
assassin - 75
archer - 73
veno - 64
blademaster - 56
wizzard - 30
psychic - 23
lost city
archer - 200 -
Surentos - Lost City wrote: »ok a couple things that you previos people haven't said and don't seem to get at all. if you actually look and (experience first hand) blades dps is higher then fists unless you stack -interval. and by stack i don't mean base, i mean at least -.15
Because it is wrong and the correct answer was said in the other thread?0 -
Nope, it was right the way it was. Axe skills are more necessary earlier on, particularly for doing AOE's and having more points to distribute to vit. Fists are a better idea later on when a) you can get more interval and b) when it makes more sense to refine/shard things a little higher to make up for the lack of vit from all the dex+str for HA and fists.Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Fixed.0 -
I did fine with fists only, and restatted more strength to axes at 70 to use calamity axes. It saved me a ton of money and SP until I had a surplus of both at 70, and when are you AOEing before then, unless you're doing some archaic form of zhenning in the swamps in the 60s?
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Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Because it is wrong and the correct answer was said in the other thread?
you cant say something is true in every instance based on 1 example where the weapon adds skew the results and call it proven
fists gain more from shards/rings/+phys attack mods and ofc int than other weapons do
last i heard swords have a almost 32% higher refine rate(do not hold me to it) and much nicer base damage
so fists out dps swords unless
you are low lvl and have no shards phys mods and **** rings (1-19/29)
both weapons are at a highish refine for your example the swords does not beat the fist till +6 w/ rings or +7 with 1* 58 rings
or they have the same attack speed as fists (yes i know this is not possible in game atm)
if you can meet any of the above conditions (high refine cheap blade on ah/your a lowbie) swords would be worth it and in no other instanceGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Stupid *** forum ate my post..Veins - Dreamweaver wrote: »I did fine with fists only, and restatted more strength to axes at 70 to use calamity axes. It saved me a ton of money and SP until I had a surplus of both at 70, and when are you AOEing before then, unless you're doing some archaic form of zhenning in the swamps in the 60s?
AOE's doing quests from 40 - 70, BH29, 39, 51, not only for the sake of hitting all mobs at once in a group instead of one at a time and pulling with a veno or EF during BH, but for the sake of containment in those instances to keep mob aggro from the cleric it makes quite a bit of sense.
As for SP skills certainly didn't require much coin at those levels, and it certainly wasn't necessary to max out aoe's that early on. Specializing in one skill tree to start with as a BM isn't that tasking on your spirit.
I didn't zhen at all until my mid-late 60s and had a cleric to help out with seaweeds, then seasprays, then assassins.0 -
JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Nope, it was right the way it was. Axe skills are more necessary earlier on, particularly for doing AOE's and having more points to distribute to vit. Fists are a better idea later on when a) you can get more interval and b) when it makes more sense to refine/shard things a little higher to make up for the lack of vit from all the dex+str for HA and fists.JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Stupid *** forum ate my post..
AOE's doing quests from 40 - 70, BH29, 39, 51, not only for the sake of hitting all mobs at once in a group instead of one at a time and pulling with a veno or EF during BH, but for the sake of containment in those instances to keep mob aggro from the cleric it makes quite a bit of sense.
As for SP skills certainly didn't require much coin at those levels, and it certainly wasn't necessary to max out aoe's that early on. Specializing in one skill tree to start with as a BM isn't that tasking on your spirit.
I didn't zhen at all until my mid-late 60s and had a cleric to help out with seaweeds, then seasprays, then assassins.
Your profile is locked so I can't see if you even have a BM or not. Roar alone is enough to aggro the mobs from cleric and level 1 of each axes skill will do til 60 or 70+. You'll have to kill most of your quest mobs one by one anyways because they are mostly magic and melee.
AoE grinding is not an effective way to level anymore. Stop living in the past. DPS from fists in Public Quest is the new way to go. There's absolutely no reason to have more than level 1 of each axe skill before 60.0 -
My BM is my highest level character, and it's on a different account. That's all you need to know because that's not quite relevant to the discussion.Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Your profile is locked so I can't see if you even have a BM or not. Roar alone is enough to aggro the mobs from cleric and level 1 of each axes skill will do til 60 or 70+. You'll have to kill most of your quest mobs one by one anyways because they are mostly magic and melee.
AoE grinding is not an effective way to level anymore. Stop living in the past. DPS from fists in Public Quest is the new way to go. There's absolutely no reason to have more than level 1 of each axe skill before 60.
One by one? Says who? Most mobs tend to congregate near the same area, and physical-based ones (giving you the benefit of the doubt, not as prominent as magic-melee ones) are fun as hell to AOE grind on, opposed to what, single target hitting everything? Living in the past? No, living in the past, would be saying that fists suck. Living in denial, which is what you're doing, is suggesting that early on how much better fists are than axes, without recognition of the many scenarios (especially given the occurrence BH is done) where fists are not better option, and your rationale is.. its the new way. H'oookay. And no roar is not enough. If you can't hit mobs, the very minute amount of aggro that gets put on you from your stun (which is certainly a longer range, along with axe aoe's, than sweep alone can do) will go to the cleric once they heal you. Hell, even a cleric throwing a seal on a mob after your roar is enough to pull from stun aggro. It's not tough once you understand the mechanics of aggro.0 -
At "early levels" with a proposed 3/2 build, how do you suggest AOEing more than 3-4 mobs at a time? Because with that amount, the time spent is roughly the same as soloing without a massive pot waste (hp AND mp).0
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JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »My BM is my highest level character, and it's on a different account. That's all you need to know because that's not quite relevant to the discussion.
One by one? Says who? Most mobs tend to congregate near the same area, and physical-based ones (giving you the benefit of the doubt, not as prominent as magic-melee ones) are fun as hell to AOE grind on, opposed to what, single target hitting everything? Living in the past? No, living in the past, would be saying that fists suck. Living in denial, which is what you're doing, is suggesting that early on how much better fists are than axes, without recognition of the many scenarios (especially given the occurrence BH is done) where fists are not better option, and your rationale is.. its the new way. H'oookay. And no roar is not enough. If you can't hit mobs, the very minute amount of aggro that gets put on you from your stun (which is certainly a longer range, along with axe aoe's, than sweep alone can do) will go to the cleric once they heal you. Hell, even a cleric throwing a seal on a mob after your roar is enough to pull from stun aggro. It's not tough once you understand the mechanics of aggro.
I leveled a BM in the "old school" time and releveled a BM in the "BH hyper-FC" time. How strong do you think heal aggro is? I will repeat myself, level one of each axes skill is more than enough.
Let's see,
1-29: Oh wait, you don't get AoE yet.
30-39: Woot one aoe and a half-aoe. You are spamming those 2 for AoE grinding? You can barely live off Sutra killing one mobs at a time at this level range and you are going to AoE?
40-49: Still only 2.5 AoEs, of which only 1 from axes, until 49. Questing area: Heven's tear, Hidden Orchid, Shattered Jade shore, aka magic mobs. You will AoE these?
50-59: Questing area: King's Feast, Dragon's End, Dawn's Cry Isle - Some physical, some magic. You can AoE some, but you are also going to **** at magic mobs one at a time with axes? BH: 39. Going to AoE explosive mobs?
60+: Public Quest, BH 51 (AoE-able), BH 59 (NOT AoE-able), BH 69 (no mobs), BH 79 (Not AoE-able)0 -
Phys mobs are easy. Marrow, stun, phys aoe, bla bla, magic mobs, obviously you wouldn't go to such an effort to pull them together. Find a group, run up, stun (depending on the dmg they do when they cast mag depends on your marrow if any), aoe, and so on. With fists, you'll find yourself wandering the outskirts of a group of mobs trying to pick off one or two at a time, thanks to, generally, a much lower amount of HP and lower survivability in case taking aggro. Hard to see how that's practical or even fun. Later on, as one starts to justify statting out vit (more base HP, it being more reasonable to refine and shard decently), it happens to be in line with progression toward an axe/fist build.Veins - Dreamweaver wrote: »At "early levels" with a proposed 3/2 build, how do you suggest AOEing more than 3-4 mobs at a time? Because with that amount, the time spent is roughly the same as soloing without a massive pot waste (hp AND mp).
Ironically I used to quest with a fist build BM and she died a hell of a lot, not just questing, but doing BH's as well. Even when I re-statted at 70 it was still tough.0 -
Good, nobody mentioned these levels.Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »I leveled a BM in the "old school" time and releveled a BM in the "BH hyper-FC" time. How strong do you think heal aggro is? I will repeat myself, level one of each axes skill is more than enough.
Let's see,
1-29: Oh wait, you don't get AoE yet.
Good, no one mentioned these either.30-39: Woot one aoe and a half-aoe. You are spamming those 2 for AoE grinding? You can barely live off Sutra killing one mobs at a time at this level range and you are going to AoE?
That's right. It's practical when doing spiders/statues to stun and aoe, hidden orchid mobs congregate, the Sumor camp area, mobs still congregate and are good for AOEing. Maybe you leveled old school but it's rather difficult to comprehend why this seems troubling for you.40-49: Still only 2.5 AoEs, of which only 1 from axes, until 49. Questing area: Heven's tear, Hidden Orchid, Shattered Jade shore, aka magic mobs. You will AoE these?
Shrunchkins are definitely AOEable, even the kiting ones, the mobs near Black Mountain are, except the one kiting magic mob, which is going to be a pain no matter which build you are.50-59: Questing area: King's Feast, Dragon's End, Dawn's Cry Isle - Some physical, some magic. You can AoE some, but you are also going to **** at magic mobs one at a time with axes? BH: 39. Going to AoE explosive mobs?
And I'm in awe at how the conceivability of AOEing, yes, the explosive mobs in BH39, is beyond you. This is precisely what was done. What's your proposition, lure them one at a time? And you're "new school"? Also lure the mossprite looking mobs too from the corridor leading to Calcid, all the way to Farren. Seriously? Old school is the "school" that played conservatively. Is "new school" a euphemism for stupidity and pseudo 1337 haxx0r APS build from level 1 to 70?
BH51 is indeed AOEable. From the very friggen entrance all the way to Fushma there are groups that are decent for AOEing, then onward the entire instance has grouped up mobs that would be stupid to take one at a time. Were you too busy fisting one mob at a time? Wow. Serpents, air mobs, acephalids, they congregate too and are good for AOE's. Though, the mobs near the Altar of Dispair where the 2 culti air mobs are are going to be a pain regardless of weapon or build since they are very close to each other.60+: Public Quest, BH 51 (AoE-able), BH 59 (NOT AoE-able), BH 69 (no mobs), BH 79 (Not AoE-able)
Yeah, you must have missed something. You can't conceive of AOEing quest mobs, AOEing BH mobs in 39, 51, 59? And you're a BM? I'm tipping toward time to reroll.0 -
And that's why I said to START with fists. You are tell people to start with axes and **** away at mobs for 39 levels? Oh, yes you did mention those:JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Good, nobody mentioned these levels.
Good, no one mentioned these either.JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Start with axes.JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
That's right. It's practical when doing spiders/statues to stun and aoe, hidden orchid mobs congregate, the Sumor camp area, mobs still congregate and are good for AOEing. Maybe you leveled old school but it's rather difficult to comprehend why this seems troubling for you.
Mobs at hidden orchid = magic, aggro more than 2 and you die as a squishy BM. Shattered Jade shore is... yeah... have you tried to AoE those magic mobs or do you expect every 4X BM to be charmed?JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Shrunchkins are definitely AOEable, even the kiting ones, the mobs near Black Mountain are, except the one kiting magic mob, which is going to be a pain no matter which build you are.
And I'm in awe at how the conceivability of AOEing, yes, the explosive mobs in BH39, is beyond you. This is precisely what was done. What's your proposition, lure them one at a time? And you're "new school"? Also lure the mossprite looking mobs too from the corridor leading to Calcid, all the way to Farren. Seriously? Old school is the "school" that played conservatively. Is "new school" a euphemism for stupidity and pseudo 1337 haxx0r APS build from level 1 to 70?
BH51 is indeed AOEable. From the very friggen entrance all the way to Fushma there are groups that are decent for AOEing, then onward the entire instance has grouped up mobs that would be stupid to take one at a time. Were you too busy fisting one mob at a time? Wow. Serpents, air mobs, acephalids, they congregate too and are good for AOE's. Though, the mobs near the Altar of Dispair where the 2 culti air mobs are are going to be a pain regardless of weapon or build since they are very close to each other.
Yeah, you must have missed something. You can't conceive of AOEing quest mobs, AOEing BH mobs in 39, 51, 59? And you're a BM? I'm tipping toward time to reroll.
W/E AoE you need, level 1 of each skill is sufficient at below 70. But telling BMs to not get fists til later and **** away at mobs with axes when you can't AoE? Fists + single or double spark is still going to kill at the same speed if not faster with 2-3 mobs, while not using any MP pots. AoE-ing more than 3 mobs at lower level gets you killed, especially magic mobs...0 -
I guess I forgot to tell my BM to die then. The obvious answer is YES, 3-4 magic mobs, especially if all they are doing is casting (which most wait 10'ish seconds to re-cast when in melee range, so I'm giving you the extreme example benefit of the doubt) are not going to kill a BM who knows how to play a BM. Hell, you seemed to think AOEing reverexes should kill you. Yeah, if you're a fist BM maybe. Magic marrow, and if necessary, mdef ornaments, are going to take you a long way, plus the HP you're going to have being pure axe is going to aid in that survivability -- not nearly as squishy as an early fist BM. And the only charm I had on my BM that wasn't a supply stash charm was doing his first RB delta in the mid 90s. I did buy a cleric friend a mp charm when she was spam healing me doing my late 70s solo zhens so I could reach 80 and FF. Even at 70 when I switched to fists I was caught off guard because my BM was significantly squishier, losing nearly 2,000 HP when buffed. It's not a slight little bit difference in survivability. It's huge. The gap is only bridged later on when refines/shards make up for it, hence the..Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »And that's why I said to START with fists. You are tell people to start with axes and **** away at mobs for 39 levels? Oh, yes you did mention those:
Mobs at hidden orchid = magic, aggro more than 2 and you die as a squishy BM. Shattered Jade shore is... yeah... have you tried to AoE those magic mobs or do you expect every 4X BM to be charmed?
W/E AoE you need, level 1 of each skill is sufficient at below 70. But telling BMs to not get fists til later and **** away at mobs with axes when you can't AoE? Fists + single or double spark is still going to kill at the same speed if not faster with 2-3 mobs, while not using any MP pots. AoE-ing more than 3 mobs at lower level gets you killed, especially magic mobs...Later on, as one starts to justify statting out vit (more base HP, it being more reasonable to refine and shard decently), it happens to be in line with progression toward an axe/fist build.
The only real way to perhaps offset the "shortage" of spirit to learn 2 skill trees early and the lack of HP is refine a lot early and maybe buy/earn a lot of spirit (badges for ex.). Then, you can learn more axe skills, use axes, and have fists, having the best of both worlds. In my case, my BM being my, uh, 6th character, I could have afforded it early on, but it was already a waste of coin. It still is much easier, yes, cheaper, and practical (as in, safe/smart) to go axes early on, then stat out vitality and go toward fists. I can certainly understand the single-target hitting, cookie-monster-cutter notion of fists and DPS, that's the new fad, but 1.43 APS and axes that early aren't that significant of a difference in DPS to justify limiting yourself to single target attacks until 70+.0 -
what shortage of spirit?
fists take 1 skill to be effective...mastery (oh and lvl 1 kick helps lol)
1 extra skil will not create a spirit shortageb:chuckle
and with high + phys add fists and rings the dps is noticibly higher even before spark much less int gearGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Shadowless, cyclone, mastery, yeah, one.. er, I mean, three. b:chuckleJoshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »what shortage of spirit?
fists take 1 skill to be effective...mastery (oh and lvl 1 kick helps lol)
1 extra skil will not create a spirit shortageb:chuckle
and with high + phys add fists and rings the dps is noticibly higher even before spark much less int gear
And 1.43 APS is so unimpressive, my HA veno was constantly stealing from fist BMs with that crappy interval. The damage fists do with no interval gear at all is certainly greater, per second, than axes, but the difference is greatly exaggerated by a few, and it's obvious why.
Oh, and the spirit thing was something I refuted because I had a fist/axe BM. But I still gave him the benefit of the doubt on it, because it was an issue I didn't give much of a **** about.0 -
JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Shadowless, cyclone, mastery, yeah, one.. er, I mean, three. b:chuckle
And 1.43 APS is so unimpressive, my HA veno was constantly stealing from fist BMs with that crappy interval. The damage fists do with no interval gear at all is certainly greater, per second, than axes, but the difference is greatly exaggerated by a few, and it's obvious why.
Oh, and the spirit thing was something I refuted because I had a fist/axe BM. But I still gave him the benefit of the doubt on it, because it was an issue I didn't give much of a **** about.
cyclone is pointless with no int gear it has no effect on dps due to its cast time
as a bm pre int fists your job is crowd control (axes) singe target DD (fists) and HF every 30 seconds on bosses if you lack int at 60
even before HF fists will spark more than axes this just adds to the DD gap
wind sheild is cheap as hell spamable and gives almost perma 1.54 aps
the only weapon you should consider as an alternate for solo DD pre int is a blade if you meet the conditions i described earlier however the cost of the extra mastery would be irksomeGifs are hard to make work here0 -
3 Strength 2 Dexterity every level, some Vitality every now and then if you want. Sword, Blades dual or not, Poleblade, pikes, clubs are useless at level 60 plus for sure. Even Urban never knew that at first =p Armor and Ornaments at level 50+ can help you with Strength and Dexterity with fist, claw and hammer, axe use only. Axes are the best to attack all enemies around, plus Blademasters can stun first, fist, claws have cyclone heel to aoe everything in close and makes u attack faster to build up chi, sparks to aoe all with Heaven's Flame and fissure, highland cleave to aoe all, those three axe and hammers skills. Only good skills with swords, blades, polesblades, pikes, clubs. Is Spirit Chaser and Farstrike if a mob goes out of range, like climbing the wall in some instances.
Switch weapons and use those skills, or a cheap bow u have as a blademaster ^^0
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