Rotflesh Trench

khailen

I'm not sure what the best approach to Rotflesh would be for a veno can someone give me some advice please. b:beg

Do skills like Amplify Damage, Lending Hand and Bramble count for us or do they just help the competion? I was also wondering about whether i should or shouldn't use Tangling Mire?

I got 8 medals the last time i went, i dont know is that any good?

Thanks

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Eight medals is pretty good. I would recommend neither Bramble (it's very easy to get unwanted aggro) nor Lending Hand (it is a competition so you should be using the sparks yourself). Amp however remains as useful as ever and it does seem to improve your contribution. My recomendation would be to choose a spot free of Wanderdogs for the first stage (don't mistake with Bloodhounds which are likely the more profitable mob) and to go all out. You shouldn't be afraid to do some of the tanking yourself and you should be taking on multiples unless the field is unpopulated enough you can afford to keep the lead going at a leisurely rate. Second stage is about using your debuffs to speed kills as much as posible, i recommend upping your dps and to try avoid your pet tanking (heals do take away from damage output) so either try working on those mobs the group is focusing on or try tanking yourself (you should be able to pot through these mobs) although, once again, how fast you work depends on the group, try to save your resources (have pet tank) if there's not much people out. Do not tank anything (with either pet or yourself) that you're not killing. Same thing applies to Vastclaw Executioner, pot and or genie heal if you get aggro, use your debuffs and spark as often as you can. It's about dps so if you're a caster you should be spamming Ironwood and Lucky. And don't wait for the boss to respawn, find your way to the second one and get started attacking as soon as you can.

Edit; Very important, do not squad with others, it will invariably hurt your contribution unless the full squad is taking the top spots and you're all happy or resigned with your position. And even this always leaves the door open to a lone Sin showing up and catching up fast... You may still cooperate with others (and i do consider it good form to aid people in trouble) but you should do it outside of squad. Venos don't benefit as much as other classes by squadding a Cleric and our main advantage is being able to sustain continued attacking on a much more effective way than others.

khailen

Thank you for taking the time to reply MANray, your advice always helps me a lot. To be honest i havnt really used spark much cause i havn't quite worked out the timing, is there an efficient macro that i could use it in?

MANray_ - Sanctuary

You're welcome. Personally i like using Ironwood as often as i can since, aside from the debuff, it is usually our biggest hit. This means making it every 4th hit, which in my case comes down to alternating Venomous with Lucky and Blazing. Now, i don't like to macro AoEs (Noxious should be used with caution on PQ anyway) which would leave out our best chi source. Still, i find this setup allows me to single spark whenever i amp and to keep a spare spark for emergencies most of the time, so if you use Noxious as much as you can, and Ironwood only when the debuff is up, you could probably double spark every other amp.

Ironwood-Noxious-Venomous-Lucky-Venomous-Noxious-Ironwood would be close to it, Amp's cooldown allowing for nothing more if you count the use of a skill such as Leech before the Amp so you can go caster right after. I do recommend you dedicate some time to experimenting with macros before you comit to a solution, especially since chi management is a special consideration in your case. Hope this helps.

Edit; I should make a note you can usually combo 8 skills and that i used only 7 on the macro i suggested to allow for Noxious' longer casting. In case it may be useful the setup i normally use for my grinding/boss combo is Venomous-Ironwood-Venomous-Lucky-Venomous-Ironwood-Venomous-Blazing--- Usually i open boss fights by Sparking Barb or Cleric, then Blazing, then Foxform-Leech-Amp-Foxform and then spark plus macro, hitting Howl and EP in between. I'll usually only hit Noxious on bosses when i have to break up the combo to spark again. My other combo is Ironwood-Lucky-Venomous which i alternate with Noxious during instance runs.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Hmm, since I got my Beamhoof Slicer, I guess I can declassify some of the DPS stuff I've figured out. b:chuckle

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Still, i find this setup allows me to single spark whenever i amp and to keep a spare spark for emergencies most of the time, so if you use Noxious as much as you can, and Ironwood only when the debuff is up, you could probably double spark every other amp.

Bear in mind that when double spark is your best spark, you actually have 299 chi available. So you can get to full chi, double spark, and have 99 chi left. Cast a spell (other than Ironwood) and have another spark ready to go. Same for triple spark. Also, double (and triple) sparks give you back some mana, which may tilt things in their favor.

In terms of damage, double sparking is only slightly better than single sparking, so you aren't losing much by saving a spark for emergencies. The exception is if you can synchronize your sparking with stacked debuffs. Then you want your best spark active during the debuffs. My case is a little different since I'm Sage and fight in fox form. But I will Amp, Ironwood, triple spark, back to fox, Myriad, genie Extreme Poison, and attack. So using your best spark and making sure all your sparked damage falls in the window in which all those debuffs are applied would maximize your DPS. If you single sparked, some of your sparked damage would fall after Amp, Myriad's debuffs, and Extreme Poison expired.

Triple spark is vastly superior to either spark. Much better damage, better duration, more mp restored, and has a purify effect. So when you get it, you will want to save your sparks to triple spark. The only downside is the 3 sec invulnerability is basically a stun, so you won't be able to squeeze it off when spam healing.

I need to run the numbers on Sage Ironwood at some point. Because its debuff lasts for 20 sec, you don't have to apply it every time the cooldown is up. I've been wondering if the spell is still the #1 DPS spell after you take into account the chi it consumes. Maybe the chi would be better saved for sparking. It's just usually not an issue for me because I hit my max DPS in fox form.

Edit; I should make a note you can usually combo 8 skills and that i used only 7 on the macro i suggested to allow for Noxious' longer casting. In case it may be useful the setup i normally use for my grinding/boss combo is Venomous-Ironwood-Venomous-Lucky-Venomous-Ironwood-Venomous-Blazing---

The general rule for a DPS macro is to not use Frost and Nova, and to use Venomous only when you have no other spells. The first two waste sparks. And except for below level 50, Venomous is your worst DPS spell (assuming your other spells are leveled). Sage/Demon Venomous is still your worst DPS spell (excluding Nova), but it's not quite as bad as the L10 versions of the spells. Demon in particular will want to keep Venomous's wood debuff applied.

Usually i open boss fights by Sparking Barb or Cleric, then Blazing, then Foxform-Leech-Amp-Foxform and then spark plus macro, hitting Howl and EP in between. I'll usually only hit Noxious on bosses when i have to break up the combo to spark again. My other combo is Ironwood-Lucky-Venomous which i alternate with Noxious during instance runs.

Sparking only affects the matk portion of your spell damage. Since every spell does 100% matk at L10 and L11, that means sparks add the exact same amount of damage to each spell cast. So maximizing the DPS from the spark means casting as many spells as possible before the spark expires. You should give priority to the quicker casting spells after sparking - Ironwood, Lucky, and Blazing. Venomous is slightly slower casting so is next in line. Noxious is the slowest casting, so I generally avoid it after sparking unless I'm AOEing.

The tradeoff between damage, casting time, and DPS is highly dependent on your exact matk and channeling, so it's not an ironclad rule to prioritize Venomous over Noxious when sparked. Basically, if you can use Noxious and squeeze off the same number of spells before the spark expires, then it's preferable to use Noxious. But if using Noxious lowers the number of spells you can cast before the spark expires, then you're better off with Venomous. Same goes for Venomous vs. Blazing if the boss isn't going to live long enough for Blazing to last the full duration.

Also, I wouldn't go too crazy trying to make sure you can squeeze off as many spells as possible after sparking. "Saving" Lucky until after you spark can result in a loss of DPS since you're not using one of your best DPS spells as frequently as you can.

Because of all this, it gets horribly complicated trying to find an optimal spell macro combo to mix with sparks. I just went HA fox and didn't have to deal with it since my best DPS is with regular melee attacks. b:chuckle

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Thank you very much for your input Solandri, is good food for thought and i'll consider this when i redo my macros at 79. I usually like to keep some chi in reserve since i run mostly with PUGs, which is the reason i start my boss combo with venomous and that i usually don't Ironwood until i have given the Barb a chance to stack a couple of Reams, i used to always open fights with Ironwood but it backfired on me so much i had to give it up. Aggro is also the reason i moved Lucky back a bit.

The problem at midlevels, especially squadding randoms, is that you don't get smooth sailing all that often which makes it somewhat convenient to hold back a bit in most scenarios, as you may have to interrupt your casting for any number of reasons. As it is, handling both Ironwood and sparking while trying to keep a reserve can be somewhat difficult, especially since using Ironwood on mobs through the instance can keep your chi gain rather limited (even with PUGs i'll rarely get more than 2-3 casts in on any given mob) which has led me to find more convenient to distribute my damage output so that i'll have sufficient chi to deal with emergencies and be less likely to draw hate. This also applies to PQ somewhat as basically you're on your own if you get in trouble.

Ideally, i would eventually hope to come up with one combo i can use for grinding and most scenarios, and keep as number two one that would in fact optimize my dps for long fights. Currently i use one for fast nuking (it's not ideal but works ok for squads and usually buys me a couple of seconds to think what to do next in other situations) and one for bosses/grinding. Lucky is a bit wasteful on this last one (although waste i can afford since mp management is rarely an issue) as it usually arrives at a point where Venomous would be sufficient, but everytime i've tried to move it up i've had aggro issues both on the field and on instances. Blazing i placed at the end since it is only meant to go off at bosses and it makes for a good tell tale sign my macro is over in other circumstances.

Coming up with good combos should certainly merit more discussion than it ususally gets, although on the other hand it's one of virtues of the game there's not just a couple of self evident cookie cutter solutions.

Silest - Sanctuary

This is my grinding combo:

Ironwood->Venomous->Blazing->Lucky Scarab

Ya I know it's uber newbie veno basic >_>;; but that chi consumption is smaller when you take blazing into account. For some melee mobs, I switch/change the order to Ironwood->Venomous->Lucky->Venomous.

Because lucky is gonna stun them, which keeps them from getting to me, and the final venomous should be the killing blow.

Most of the time though I only need Ironwood->Venomous(or 2)->Lucky to kill anything outside instances.

As for PQ..I find it's very easy to get first place as a veno. Done it twice in a row before I got bored of PQ..

Yeah amp helps.

Don't squad - ever -.