To buy a Herc... or not to buy a Herc

Solandri - Heavens Tear

kenlee wrote: »

for start you can forget about nirvana pants and pan gu creator/love up and down and farm it the last. get all in time. i saw +7 deicide for 75mil on my server just few days ago. a lunar cape usually run for 35mil. thats for starting, rest of mats (TT90/TT99) can be farmed with friends/faction in time.

Farming stuff doesn't make it cheaper. If you decide to use the stuff you farm to make TT gear, you lose the money you could've made selling the mats. So it'll still end up costing you way more than a herc.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

5aps is over rated. Sure, it's good for farming Nirvana (when you get to 100). If you put as much into a veno you should be able to make about as much coin in other ways (maybe more because everyone is doing the -int thing).

5 aps is most certainly not over rated. It's imba and largely has broken the game. You can actually do a lot more with a 5 APS BM and a cleric than a herc. Before recent TT changes soloing with a herc was easy and easily made up for the investment into a herc. It still does, though slightly more difficult with the recent changes. Without a doubt I always recommend venos invest into a herc if they can, since it's an investment that is returned to them if they actually use it properly.

tweakz

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

5 aps is most certainly not over rated. It's imba and largely has broken the game. You can actually do a lot more with a 5 APS BM and a cleric than a herc.

Did I compare to herc? -no. I simply stated that you could put as much into a veno and still fare comparably well in the game. I have yet to see a 5aps sin or bm in my grind spot aoe'ing 14mobs at a time and bringing in ~1m per hour during double drops. I'd assume 5aps cost them more than I put into my character as well.

kenlee

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Farming stuff doesn't make it cheaper. If you decide to use the stuff you farm to make TT gear, you lose the money you could've made selling the mats. So it'll still end up costing you way more than a herc.

if that crafted TT gear makes you have better dps, that build will pay for itself. if you sell the mats you will end the same as veno, linear farming. since the main source of dps is my pet and my debuff when i kill TT bosses, getting much better gear barely improve that killing speed.. thats what i call linear farming. im not counting killing mobs, just bosses in 3-2/3-3 for example. every bit of improvement for high aps will result in better farming. i ran this TT with some sin and at every bosses were i was killing in like half hour he did it in like 2 minutes. he wasnt born 4 aps, he slowly started as i did but look were i am now and where is he.... almost done farming stuff for him and doing it for his alt and im still at the point of improving myself. not only that those 4-5 aps builds pay for themselves but their farming potential is growing up a lot with every bit of improvement

tweakz wrote: »

Did I compare to herc? -no. I simply stated that you could put as much into a veno and still fare comparably well in the game. I have yet to see a 5aps sin or bm in my grind spot aoe'ing 14mobs at a time and bringing in ~1m per hour during double drops. I'd assume 5aps cost them more than I put into my character as well.

they got like 30-40mil per day in 2x even, they dont bother killing 14 mobs for DQ drops. and as a matter of fact any bm/sin will do better at aoeing than veno

tweakz

kenlee wrote: »

they got like 30-40mil per day in 2x even, they dont bother killing 14 mobs for DQ drops. and as a matter of fact any bm/sin will do better at aoeing than veno

Real funny. Again, I didn't mention DQ drops. Where do you get this stuff from? DQ is a small fraction of the income. I'll ask some 5aps bms I know and see what they say. There's also the issue that they aren't gaining much XP, SP, or rep while being stuck in a dungeon missing other opportunities.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

kenlee wrote: »

if that crafted TT gear makes you have better dps, that build will pay for itself. if you sell the mats you will end the same as veno, linear farming. since the main source of dps is my pet and my debuff when i kill TT bosses, getting much better gear barely improve that killing speed.. thats what i call linear farming.

That's totally different. You've gone from a debate purely about cost, and shifted it to return on investment. I don't disagree with what you're saying above, but it's not what we were talking about. You tried to say getting the mats for gear was "free" because you could farm them. It's not free, because by using the mats you are giving up the money you could make selling them.

e.g. You start with zero. You farm TT and get 10 mil worth of mats. At this point you have two choices:

Choice A: Use the mats to make gear.

Choice B: Sell the mats for 10 mil coin.

If you choose A, you are giving up 10 mil coin. So the farmed gear is still costing you 10 mil coin. Another way to see it is to say you chose B. You now have 10 mil coin. You use the 10 mil coin to buy the mats you need to make the gear right back. So the gear has cost you 10 mil coin.

As for the gear eventually paying for itself by improving your capability, so does the herc. If you want to use that definition of "free", then everything in the game which helps you is free. Which makes it a rather useless definition if you're trying to figure out what's better to do.

im not counting killing mobs, just bosses in 3-2/3-3 for example. every bit of improvement for high aps will result in better farming. i ran this TT with some sin and at every bosses were i was killing in like half hour he did it in like 2 minutes. he wasnt born 4 aps, he slowly started as i did but look were i am now and where is he.... almost done farming stuff for him and doing it for his alt and im still at the point of improving myself. not only that those 4-5 aps builds pay for themselves but their farming potential is growing up a lot with every bit of improvement

That's pretty much correct, but beside the point. People like the OP are saying they can barely afford a herc, and you're telling them to make a much more expensive 4-5 APS build. You don't make the big money by wanting to have a 5 APS build. You pay the money to make the build first, then you make back the cost after.

kenlee

tweakz wrote: »

Real funny. Again, I didn't mention DQ drops. Where do you get this stuff from? DQ is a small fraction of the income. I'll ask some 5aps bms I know and see what they say. There's also the issue that they aren't gaining much XP, SP, or rep while being stuck in a dungeon missing other opportunities.

whatever you get, they get that too as drops.
they dont miss anything. recently a faction member got his archer to 100 quick with fc and got him r8 w/o spending rl money. he spent the previous months in TT with his main which happened to be a sin and voila... 200k rep points. so he doesnt miss xp/rep/sp.
about aoe, i still see old school bm's aoeing with axes for farming coins/xp.

@solandri
was saying that investing in a veno or a sin/bm isnt much different (in terms of initial coins invested or lets say cheap characters) but the reward is better for the seccond and much sooner. if you ask to buy or not to buy a herc then you probably have or will have those coins. lots of venos farmed/farming solo mode till they have the coins to buy herc. a sin can do solo mode too and can do it faster or anything farming related... even can do their own bh solo in much better time since they can skip mobs.
i wanted to point out more the fact that if a veno get boots/wrist TT99 and TT99 ornaments, isnt much of improvement to farming, except some more pdef and a bit of channeling but getting the same similar items on a sin/bm is already a big improvement... depends of case they get like 4aps which improve their further farming capabilities by a lot more than herc. as a veno you have to buy a pet, and probably some expensive pet skill too and also gear yourself while a sin only has to gear himself

i dont know how to say in a few words but before tideborn ppl said venos is the best farming class with little investment. well, since tideborn is out now that class is replaced. with the same amount of coins spent on all classes, sin will get on top of the others. if you want to be cheap you dont need all those tt99 items but you have lower range of things to farm, same as veno w/o herc.