Question about my Fc runs

Starflair - Dreamweaver

I'm primarily a fist BM, but I carry Calamity axes with me to follow up my stuns with heavens flame, highland cleave, and continue to aoe from there till the mobs die.

From what I understand, I HAVE to stun the mobs after the Barb pulls them. And make sure they're stunned before hitting the clerics BB so I can protect them. Like i said, I use HF and continue to AOE the maxed damage. HF is currently at lvl 8 so it's pretty decent.

My issue is about 95% of the time, I die. I always steal aggro! Should I not be AOEing so much and just worry about stunning/ mob control, or do i just need more vit/gems? This didn't start happening until I lvl'd Hf from 1-8 in 1 day xD

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

Here is what most newbies don't realize; the most dangerous part of pulling is after you pull and start AoE'ing. This becomes more apparent in the big room pull.

What you need to do is HF or whatever AoE you have available first. Let your Wiz/Archer set up their AoEs and after few seconds of AoE's, THEN pop in a Roar. If you have Absolute Domain on your genie use it while establishing aggro. Aggro on you will give the DD's enough time to chip away at mob HP, and the AoE stun will give them enough time to finish the rest off without having the mobs dashing in at them. RoP only lasts 6 seconds at lvl 10 so you need to make it count. Using it at beginning is a waste.

Starflair - Dreamweaver

Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Here is what most newbies don't realize; the most dangerous part of pulling is after you pull and start AoE'ing. This becomes more apparent in the big room pull.

What you need to do is HF or whatever AoE you have available first. Let your Wiz/Archer set up their AoEs and after few seconds of AoE's, THEN pop in a Roar. If you have Absolute Domain on your genie use it while establishing aggro. Aggro on you will give the DD's enough time to chip away at mob HP, and the AoE stun will give them enough time to finish the rest off without having the mobs dashing in at them. RoP only lasts 6 seconds at lvl 10 so you need to make it count. Using it at beginning is a waste.

hm, that actually makes pretty good sense. So what you're saying is (and excuse me if I'm being redundant) the reason I'm stealing/keeping aggro and getting mauled by the mobs is because:

1) Roar of the Pride instantly steals aggro (from mobs that haven't been attacked)

2) Unleashing HF and following up with a stream of AoEs really stacks up quick aggro for myself.

I know it's gonna sound stupid, but I honestly never caught on to that. Honestly, when I was taught to FC (and when I was being bossed around in other FC runs) the message everyone got accross to me was to stun before they hit BB, and then AoE.

People get grossly pissed off if I fail to stun before the mobs hit the BB zone, but I guess it has the same effect if I AOE anyway (so long as the barb pulled them correctly). Thanks for the advice.

Correct me if I'm wrong

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

Unless Wiz/Archer in your squad is a complete fail, you can't "steal" aggro from them once they've established their AoE's, especially if you've popped in HF.

Think this logically. When the tank first pulls in the mobs, the group expects you to roar. This is to prevent them from reaching the Cleric. However this can be done by establishing aggro on yourself by using single AoE. Drake Sweep for example. At the same time this is happening, your Wiz/Archer is setting up their AoE. At this time they don't have the aggro yet. Mobs are still on you.

Now once the DDs have established their AoE's, aggro stealing is imminent. Think about this; if you've used RoP in the beginning to establish the initial aggro, the skill will be in cooldown. Mobs will instantly dash to the DDs and likely overwhelm them. But if you've used an AoE attack skill to establish the initial aggro, you have RoP to prevent the mobs from reaching your DDs to attack, thereby giving them enough time to tow them away.

Remember, this is going really really fast. The reason it seems like you are stealing aggro and dying is because you are the first one to make a move after the tank pulls mobs and you get overwhelmed, getting killed in first couple of seconds.

Try this next time you FC. Instead of starting with RoP -> AoE, do

Drake Sweep -> Highland Cleave/Fissure -> RoP -> HF if needed -> repeat AoE's.

This is especially effective in the big room where many Wiz and Archers die from taking massive aggro. You will have the initial aggro but not enough to kill you before you pop RoP. After RoP your DDs should have their AoE's raining on the mobs, at which point you can pop a HF and clean them up in matter of seconds before RoP is up without anyone dying.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

I find if I aoe the heck out of my skills I can steal aggro from any wizard or archer, so I "casually" aoe depending on the barbs aggro skills. Yes, Roar of pride has some aggro ability, but not much. The Barbs Roar is a slow cast and they normally will invoke, also a slow cast, before they use roar. Don't attack/stun until after they've grabbed aggro.

Make sure the barb is roaring for aggro before you start your aoes. I usually will stun right after I see them invoke (if they invoke) and start my aoes as I see the roar swords.

If he can't hold aggro with roar ask him to use Alpha Male. This will give you 8-12 seconds of protection and time to kill everything.

Run with a veno, they can bramble the barb and he'll keep aggro a second or two longer and things will die quicker.

Remember, RotP lasts 6 seconds. Most mobs should be dead by the 6 seconds. Time it to everyone else starting their aoes so mobs don't leave the barb and go for them but you maximize the time they're stunned while under fire. And again, don't out dd the wizards and Archers, HF can be a death sentence.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I find if I aoe the heck out of my skills I can steal aggro from any wizard or archer, so I "casually" aoe depending on the barbs aggro skills. Yes, Roar of pride has some aggro ability, but not much. The Barbs Roar is a slow cast and they normally will invoke, also a slow cast, before they use roar. Don't attack/stun until after they've grabbed aggro.

Make sure the barb is roaring for aggro before you start your aoes. I usually will stun right after I see them invoke (if they invoke) and start my aoes as I see the roar swords.

If he can't hold aggro with roar ask him to use Alpha Male. This will give you 8-12 seconds of protection and time to kill everything.

Run with a veno, they can bramble the barb and he'll keep aggro a second or two longer and things will die quicker.

Remember, RotP lasts 6 seconds. Most mobs should be dead by the 6 seconds. Time it to everyone else starting their aoes so mobs don't leave the barb and go for them but you maximize the time they're stunned while under fire. And again, don't out dd the wizards and Archers, HF can be a death sentence.

get a better cleric

the hell are you doing as a 9x fist/axe useing barbs to tank? *pimp slap*

bloodpaint

AD to give you time to roar on big pulls

and again the hell are you useing barbs for?

Lee_Hyori - Dreamweaver

Hey Starflair, you said you are a fist BM. Did you try using Bolt of Tyreseus?

What I'd like to do is:

Bolt of Tyreseus -> Heaven flame -> Highland -> Roar of the pride -> more Aoe

This disables the mobs for longer while your DDs pew pew on them.

And make sure to time your Bolt so the mobs are in range of Aoe, but not close enough to melee atk the cleric/DD.

And if you find urself dying from stealing aggro, pop a Dew of God apoth or something right before.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your FC!

Okeano - Harshlands

More to add on what's already been said, because I see this happen often enough for BMs. Careful with your marrows. We all use them to build chi but the difference lies in the order of using the two. I can't tell you how many times I've seem BMs do magic then physical marrow and have it on during magic pulls. When I tell them that they have the wrong marrow on, they say they are using it for chi... (ffs I know you are using them for chi, but you are also leaving yourself like 100 magic def and we are pulling 50 magic mobs) It's like they have completely no awareness of their surrounding and just pressing button blindly. Unless we are at the hall with physical mobs only or in the main room, I always use physical then magical marrow for chi building. Having 8K physical def while a few mobs melee you in a mixed pull doesn't hurt much.

Starflair - Dreamweaver

Good point Okeano. However, I'm one of the few BMs that actually watch my marrows. To be frank, as a fist bm, I don't rely on them for chi like I used to since I build up enough during runs.

Lee, idk how I can follow Bolt of Tyreseus with HF being that I only have 2 sparks. Is it worth freezing myself? Because I usually use WoB before Bolt for freeze protection. But thats sounds like a good plan. Maybe if I Bolt -> filler move for spark -> HF -> highland -> stun, etc. I never thought of using bolt though...good idea.

And to the rest of y'all saying I'm working with fail clerics/wizzards, I guess that makes me feel better b:chuckle

Okeano - Harshlands

Oops, Lee must have forgot that you are not 89 yet. Bolt does good damage and have a large area. I've always liked to use it on big pulls after HF. Freezing yourself isn't too much of an issue since if you use it then tab to the mob right next to you, you can still do AoEs with axes.

Once you get to 90+ and run with some hard hitting DD such as Psy, Roaring first then HF shouldn't be a problem since the mobs should die before stun even wears off. I was with an OP Psy at 8X and us pretty much 2 hit all the other pulls, other than main room, with Roar, HF + one AoE. b:chuckle

Lee_Hyori - Dreamweaver

Yeah my bad lol. Forgot the fact you are 86. Hmm..Guess I shouldn't take my extra spark for granted. b:chuckle

CuteLilDemon - Lost City

Get new genie skills
ex: absolute domain(could give u a few seconds to stay alive while killing mobs), wind shield (reduce dmg taken + crease attk rate). For the marrow thing, i ONLY put on mag marrow from begining to 3rd boss, and phy marrow after 3rd boss till the end of the run. Those mag mobs at the begining hurt BMs =/