Tanking now a days.

ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide
ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide Posts: 72 Arc User
edited September 2010 in General Discussion
This is a serious thread that applies to moar then 1 class and can be open to discussion to everyone(so don't lock/move pl0x)
Do you think that the role of a tank should belong to a 5 aps bm or should It continue belonging to barbs? or should barbs use both axes and claws to implement 5 aps + agro skills? and what about sins, their dmg compared to a fist bms is pretty big, a fish with 2 aps can take agro from 2.86 fist bm with equal gear and 3.3 from 5 bm.
Post edited by ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide on
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Comments

  • Tudordan - Dreamweaver
    Tudordan - Dreamweaver Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    huh?!O_O
    I hate idiots,but I'm forced to stay near them!
  • Silest - Sanctuary
    Silest - Sanctuary Posts: 816 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Should go to the barbs..
  • ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide
    ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Tudordan - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    huh?!O_O

    wh0 83 83770R 74nk2?
  • ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide
    ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Silest - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Should go to the barbs..

    A barb in tiger form can't keep agro from anything over 2.5 aps consta sparking
  • Tudordan - Dreamweaver
    Tudordan - Dreamweaver Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide wrote: »
    wh0 83 83770R 74nk2?

    Who be better tanks you said?

    hmmmm,barbs all the way,sins are too lightly and BMs............unless they're high lvl or know how to time marrows then HELL NOb:shocked
    I hate idiots,but I'm forced to stay near them!
  • Nerrianah - Sanctuary
    Nerrianah - Sanctuary Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    From what I've seen, many classes can take aggro from barb (unless its a very good barb) but the problem here is... not many can tank bosses, since their HP is smaller from barbs. There are exceptions of course.

    If someone is able to tank the boss, without endangering the whole squad... why not. Its their repair bill hehe.

    Just my 2 cents :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • _MonoxidE_ - Sanctuary
    _MonoxidE_ - Sanctuary Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    It all depends on what instance your running. I still see alot of people demand barbs or bms where they are really not even needed. Alot of mobs 60+ are casters. Ive had my share of "your joking right" looks everytime Ive told a veno, Psy, cleric or wizzy to tank an instance such as fb59. There are still alot of people who are lead to believe that only barbs and bm's or herc veno's can tank anything. Ive seen a cleric in her late 60's tank such bosses as fb59 no problem with a good cleric healing. Back in the day we use to push our limits to the edge and experiment with what exactly is possible and what isnt. The other day i even saw a 70+ barb with TT70 top, 60+ legs, 50+boots and 40+ wrists tank pole, nob and pyro in bh69. Yet Ive also seen 80+ and even 90+ drop quick in the same instance. Its all about playing and knowing your class and knowing your limits. You might be surprized to find that something are possible that you may not have known otherwise.
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    1 h4t3 13375p3ak
  • Tudordan - Dreamweaver
    Tudordan - Dreamweaver Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »
    1 h4t3 13375p3ak

    7h3n d0n7 54y 7h1n65 w17h 13375p3ak
    I hate idiots,but I'm forced to stay near them!
  • Borsuc - Raging Tide
    Borsuc - Raging Tide Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide wrote: »
    This is a serious thread that applies to moar then 1 class and can be open to discussion to everyone(so don't lock/move pl0x)
    Do you think that the role of a tank should belong to a 5 aps bm or should It continue belonging to barbs? or should barbs use both axes and claws to implement 5 aps + agro skills? and what about sins, their dmg compared to a fist bms is pretty big, a fish with 2 aps can take agro from 2.86 fist bm with equal gear and 3.3 from 5 bm.
    It's not the barbs at fault it's the aps and interval system... isn't it obvious b:surrender
  • Vixter - Harshlands
    Vixter - Harshlands Posts: 1,275 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    i think barbs should still be main tanks. its sad how OP (in pve) these 5 aps bms and sins can be when it comes to aggro... maybe up the "aggro-ness" of the barb skills would help... but other than that, just have to continuously flesh ream, and if they still steal then, if they die well its their fault >_>
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  • Noskrad - Heavens Tear
    Noskrad - Heavens Tear Posts: 297 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    I was discussing about this topic some weeks ago,and ended by thinking that the problem of holding agr is not a barb's problem, but a DD's problem, or at least, only we DDs can solve that problem by controling the damage we deal so that we don't steal agro. So I say the tanking must still being a work for barbs, but also witht the help of the whole squad, of course, specially of the damage dealers, here is when team work comes in.
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Noskrad - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I was discussing about this topic some weeks ago,and ended by thinking that the problem of holding agr is not a barb's problem, but a DD's problem, or at least, only we DDs can solve that problem by controling the damage we deal so that we don't steal agro. So I say the tanking must still being a work for barbs, but also witht the help of the whole squad, of course, specially of the damage dealers, here is when team work comes in.

    Who wants to use a tank where you have to hold back your damage as much as you can? As long as the highest DD is capable of tanking the boss everyone is free to go all out and things go quick.

    Even in the position of off-tank barbs are still more useful to a party than most classes.
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  • Graviora - Dreamweaver
    Graviora - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,073 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    I say whoever can tank should. Just figure that out before the boss... so I don't have to switch targets so much.
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  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    o.O Hm I was not aware tanking was a barb only... I remember I went to my 1st WB with a 90s archer tanking & me solo-healing. (-.- just the two of us... took ... a while...)

    I remember how barbs were scared pooples of Mantavip (o.O Lol they changed name to Nightwing now?) & I tanked it on my cleric. Or our old fact leader 80s bm tanking fb69 without all the cheaply available good gear now.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Plenty of classes can tank. Some need to spend a lot of money to get the gears to do so, others are designed to and sometimes there are situations where other classes can tank even without needing awesome gear.

    And if they can tank, why not let them?

    If an archer can tank a boss, let them. They no longer need to hold back on damage, and this is good for the squad as a whole because it means the damage dealt is higher and the time spent on that boss is lessened. It's a part of the repair cost the barb doesn't need to worry about.

    Just because a barbarian was designed to tank, it doesn't always mean they are the best tank for the job. I'm tired of seeing a lot of people get up their own **** if somebody else suggests that they tank, and tired of so many people effectively demanding people to hold back and therefore hold back squads because they believe they have a god given right to tank everything in this game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Necare - Harshlands
    Necare - Harshlands Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »
    o.O Hm I was not aware tanking was a barb only... I remember I went to my 1st WB with a 90s archer tanking & me solo-healing. (-.- just the two of us... took ... a while...)

    I remember how barbs were scared pooples of Mantavip (o.O Lol they changed name to Nightspike Bloodguard now?) & I tanked it on my cleric. Or our old fact leader 80s bm tanking fb69 without all the cheaply available good gear now.

    Fixed for you.

    And having played a barb, and having to tank all my BHs,(even 59, because people were afraid that they'd die unless a barb tanked), I can say: having a barb tank is great, sure, but depending on his/her skills, it can be a pain in the famous hole.
    Sometimes we can just let loose and the barb keeps aggro from whatever we dish out.
    Other times we can steal aggro just by looking at mobs.

    But whoever that wants to tank and CAN tank (note: tanking is NOT losing aggro to everything, the tank is there to keep aggro, not lose it) can do it for me.
    Once upon a time I was stuck in Hall of Deception.
    The Devs felt sorry for me having to smash lowbies all day, so they decided to promote me.
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  • _Leif - Lost City
    _Leif - Lost City Posts: 369 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    pre-90 barbs pretty much tank everything (short of the occasional magic/range tanking). Post-90 tho, many BMs and sins can easily out-DD barbs aggro skills and have the survivability to tank. I can't remember the last frost run I did that involved a barb actually tanking the bosses. On the few occasions that they tried, a sin or bm would just steal aggro within 5 seconds of triple sparking.

    With the new TT 3-x revamp tho, it seems that barbs are once again designated tanks. Haven't heard of a BM yet that has been able to do a full 3-3 run =/
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    _Leif - Lost City wrote: »
    With the new TT 3-x revamp tho, it seems that barbs are once again designated tanks. Haven't heard of a BM yet that has been able to do a full 3-3 run =/

    On the 3-3s Ive been on DD still tanks and barb is there to hold the boss if/when the DD dies. Invoke gives the cleric time to res and rebuff.
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  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Problem isn't necessarily the difficulty in holding aggro, still possible for barbs to hold it.



    But why would anyone want a barb to tank when that would require the DDs to spend half the time just standing there.


    That is, unless if it's a 5 aps barb.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide
    ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Problem isn't necessarily the difficulty in holding aggro, still possible for barbs to hold it.



    But why would anyone want a barb to tank when that would require the DDs to spend half the time just standing there.


    That is, unless if it's a 5 aps barb.

    Barb dmg with 5 aps would still require some people to hold back
  • Conavar - Heavens Tear
    Conavar - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    I think someone posted in another thread that its not so much that Barb's can't tank nowadays but every class but them have moved on.
    With the amount of people with 5aps or +10 or more weapons the goal posts have been moved and a Barb's agro skill's havent moved with it.

    Granted sometime's its better to have a Barb tank but at times it's safer if someone better at holding agro from +10 weapons does ( Ie: 5aps )
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Valirah - Sanctuary
    Valirah - Sanctuary Posts: 522 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    On the 3-3s Ive been on DD still tanks and barb is there to hold the boss if/when the DD dies. Invoke gives the cleric time to res and rebuff.

    That's just 'cause you're so Pro, giving the rest of us inferiority issues. b:surrender
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    The squad member who can

    1: Best hold aggro
    and
    2: Stay alive while holding said aggro.

    Is the tank. I've never understood, nor agreed with, that whole superiority complex about barbs having to be the tank for everything. If an archer can hold aggro from the rest of the DDs and stay alive with the cleric healing them, but has to hold back with a barb around? Archer tanks. If the veno can hold aggro but dies too quickly, veno holds back and barb tanks. If the barb can out-aggro the rest of the squad and stay alive, barb tanks.


    Asking a DD to hold back when they're running around with +10 weapons isn't very reasonable or realistic. Especially if that DD is more than capable of tanking on their own. Likewise, there won't always be a barb around and you'll have to learn to deal with it. Better to make it your normal policy to live with alternate tanks when they can do the job than be clueless when the time comes.

    And to barbs worried about this: Less repairs for you. You should be happy.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Barb dmg with 5 aps would still require some people to hold back
    Go ahead and take aggro from Man then, or ToyTank
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  • Sneakret - Heavens Tear
    Sneakret - Heavens Tear Posts: 618 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Mm I don't believe my friend has had any issues what so ever tanking 3-3 as a bm.

    Is he fast? yes the usual interval bm 3.33-5 range

    Is he charmed? no

    Blood Paint? yes

    and here's the part that really gets it, he uses.......*omg drum roll *

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  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Best person for the job in the squad tanks. If the highest DD can safely tank, then let them go for it and the job gets done a lot quicker with far less deaths.

    To be a superior tank to a skilled barb, a BM requires a lot of -int gear, high quality armour and high grade refines/shards for HP. You're talking quite a few hundred million. Other classes are also pretty much the same. On the other hand, a barb can tank and survive pretty much anything at high levels on standard 20m gear, a good build and enough skill.
  • AlysonRose - Heavens Tear
    AlysonRose - Heavens Tear Posts: 624 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Personally I hate it when I'm in 59, and everyone knows I'm tanking, but the barb likes to spam flesh ream and alpha male etc to go all out to see if he CAN get aggro.

    Best case, he can't, and does mediocre dmg the whole instance and we'd be better off with pretty much any other class at that point.

    Worst case he takes it for like 3 sec, gets hit once, and the cleric spam heals him for the next 20 sec while I am left to heal myself. Especially annoying if i don't notice right away and I have a charm.

    I don't triple spark 2 sec into the fight when YOU are tanking just to see if I can tank, so why do you think its a good idea to try and steal aggro when I'm doing it? Espcecially when you are more than 30 lvs below me, all your flesh reaming is doing is messing up my red tide dmg if I'm bored enough to use it.

    On topic tho, I prefer barb tanks, then BMs, then (especially if i'm dragged to TT) Hercs. However if a pro demon archer wants to spaz out on something, more power to them and I'll be triple sparking every time they do lol
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    ChrisDaBarb - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Barb dmg with 5 aps would still require some people to hold back

    With a 5aps barb and another 5aps class or two, it doesn't really matter who tanks... everything dies too quickly.
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  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    i dont care really... but higher aps = less healing lol
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
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