Need advice about what 2 do in squads

khailen

I have soloed nearly all the way to lvl60 and have just started to work with squads so i would really appreciate some advice about what 2 do and not 2 do as a venomancer in a squad.

Is it bad 2 use Bramble Guard on squad members? i thought i was doin the right thing by buffing but it seemed 2 cause a problem 4 some of the squad?

I was in a squad with a lvl80 veno with an armoured bear n she asked me 2 b in charge of healin her pet while it tanked but it wasn't easy 2 defend myself against stray mobs while keepin both our pet healed, is it normal to heal som1elses pet?

The other thing i was wondering about is it a bad idea 2 use tangling mire against a boss cause it seemd 2 freak some of the squad out?

Sorry 4 all the noob questions but i would like 2 help not hinder my squad so i would really like 2 know as much as possible.

Thanks b:thanksb:thanks

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

Typically people only want the designated tank to be brambled.

You shouldn't be healing someone else's pet during normal mobs, IMO - only on bosses where random mobs won't be an issue. If she wants you to heal her pet so she can DD on normal mobs, tell her where to stick it.

I won't claim to have an opinion on tangling mire other than the fact that it lags me :P

XDarkJessX - Lost City

@ted i agree with telling that veno to stick it shes capable of healing and DDing if not go play a diff class >.>

only bramble tanks and non squihsy DDers

and tangling mire is good for certian things but not always :P

khailen

thanks so much for the reply I agree with you about healing her pet against the boss but it seemed a bit bizarre for me to have to heal her pet all the time! lol. I was healin her pet against a lone boss when she realeased him for some reason then resummoned, i sent my GW in to finish him off but she died from the aoe, seemed to think it was my fault?

Cocobelle - Sanctuary

Definitely not your fault there. If I may ask, which boss is this? That veno is probably lazy or thinks her DDing would good since her level's higher than yours. Nonetheless, it's pretty weird to co-heal someone else's pet because you don't really know the capability of the person's heals. I guess she trusts you? Probably not.

You do not bramble the following classes unless asked:
- Clerics (a lot of them will QQ about this)
- Wizards
- Psychics
- Archers

Depending on the BM or Assassin, you may or may not bramble him/her. But you should definitely keep the tank (which is usually a barb) brambled.

You should also level up your Amplify Damage skill in foxform as well as Purge. Amplify Damage will obviously...amplify the damage and can be stacked with Extreme Poison (genie skill). When a boss buffs itself, make sure to keep it purged to make it easier for the squad.

Basically your job in squad is:
- Pulling/Luring bosses or mobs.
- Keeping the boss debuffed with amplify damage (although don't use it when you know some bosses with nasty AOE can kill you)
- Brambling the tank
- Sending sparks to the tank or cleric (after cleric uses BB or RB)
- Purging the boss
- DDing, of course.

khailen

It was against Farren Serenti? not sure if i spelled that right! lol. WE killed him but she was real pssd cause she died

Thanks so much for all the great advice i really appreciate u all takin the time to reply ;D

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear

She's level 80 and died in FB39? smh.

khailen

hmm yeah twice! O.O

Pebblefish - Dreamweaver

I was asking my faction about this but we don't have too many Venos.

What is the reasoning behind not brambling a squishy class like Cleric or Wizard? Does it cause aggro if its deflected, or is it overpowering one of their own buffs?

I'm still trying to do the same as you - figure out my place in a squad. I've had some people say that Venos are too slow because we have to lure (though I think they might prefer not dying, even if there's a cleric to rez), or that we don't particularly have a use if there is a Barb or BM nearby to tank.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

You should only heal another veno's pet when on a boss, and then only when it's the more convenient thing to do. This is rarely the case when working with a higher level veno because her heal will be much more efficient. Doing otherwise means two venos are doing the job of one, no matter now much some may want to rationalize it.

I think Cocobelle did a good job describing a veno's work so i'll just comment on her instructions;

Bramble; I would recommend brambling all melees unless one of them is of a significantly lower level than the others. The reason for this is they're likely to do some off tanking. Barbs and BMs do need aggro to fulfill some of their basic roles. Sins are a special case; Some can hold their own on the same terms as HA classes. However all can loose aggro through Stealth and may be called on to fulfill the duty of driving mobs away from the group, so they should all be Brambled. If you come across a Melee with an exagerated fear of unwanted aggro just challenge them to a duel and Purge them. Keep a close eye on these types as they're likely to be weak players. Robes you never Bramble unless they're tanking or they request it. Archers can go either way, only Bramble them if they ask you to or you find through they're effectively fulfilling the tanking role. Venos are situational and a matter of personal preference, personally i always bramble myself. You should never Bramble another Veno however, they'll use their own if they want it.

Pulling; You should work closely with the tank on this as wether to lure or not is basically his call. Try pulling on those situations when you think it's convenient and observe their reaction, they'll tell you much about their style of play. Some Barbs or BMs will move fast and AoE groups of mobs, others will take no chances and will insist on pulling all mobs. Some will do their own pulling using Earthflame and others will appreciate the pet's assistance. The speed with which you adapt to the tank's style may in large part determine how fast the squad will advance so try to keep yourself alert. If the main tanker is aggroing a group, try to get your pet to aggro the one least likely to receive the full squad's attention and always keep an eye on the mini map for wandering mobs as you're in a unique situation to better deal with them. Veno is a frontline role and you shouldn't be cozzily standing back with the ranged classes, this is lazy gameplay, but you should also keep an eye on squad members that may be lagging behind and should make it your work that nothing surprises squishies when the main tankers are otherwise occupied. Finally remember to make sure your squad understands when you're trying to pull or position a mob, some DDs may be using your pet as cover to attack and its sudden disapearance may put them at risk. Give instructions when necessary and never let your pet's health go down too much, it's role as tanker may be more important than your own role as DD.

Debuffing; Against regular mobs Ironwood will be one of your important contributions so you should pay close attention to chi management. When posible try to enter an instance fully sparked. A pet with Howl also helps, especially on parties heavy on robe classes. Amping you should do on especially ressiliant mobs and always on bosses. I do strongly recommend Extreme Poison. Remember to take turns amping when squadding with other venos, it's considered good form to arrange in which order you'll approach this before the fight. As it has been pointed out you should not amp on bosses whose AoE may kill you as easing the Cleric's work load is a bigger priority.

Sparking; Don't allow other party members to treat you as a spark dispenser, while it's a good idea to ocassionally spark throughout a run you should be able to make the call on what benefits the squad best. Number one priority is always a Cleric using Regeneration Aura (Blue Bubble) regardless of circumstance. Even if you think he's wrong to use it it's his call to make and squad survival does take precedence over object lessons to other classes. Traditionally, the next in line would be the tank, always try to spark them right after they've used a big hit while establishing aggro early in the fight, which should also maximize the number of times you'll be able to spark troughout a fight. Competent tanks should be able to self sustain their use of skills however so DDs are also a good choice if the chi will generate a better damage output in their hands than in yours. A BM frequently using Heaven's Flame is an obvious choice but you should try to familiarize yourself with the capabilities of other classes. When in doubt, ask.

Purging; For PvE you should only require this at higher levels, i'll let someone more experienced comment on this.

Damage Dealing; Try to use Ironwood as every fourth attack, it's one of your best sources of damage. Noxious you should try using using when on multiples and Blazing's DoT only on long fights, generally bosses, or when you wish to avoid aggro. Also try Lucky as often as you can. Nova is only really effective when dealing with upwards of 4-5 mobs. If your pet is not tanking try to maximize it's DD by using it's damage skills, although you should only do this when working on a tank with proven ability to keep aggro off other DD classes. Don't idle, you should always be keeping your attack up when not otherwise occupied.

I'll close with a couple of things that aply to all classes. Always protect the Cleric, whatever you may do his survival is the squad's priority and if this means using an AoE on several mobs to get them off him/her so be it. As a general rule, and unless the Cleric really did something wrong, you should never find yourself in a situation where you have survived but the Cleric didn't. Think of being his/her bodyguard as one of your most basic duties. Also, make it your responsability for the squad to succeed and don't simply be blindly led. Squad work does require some discipline and that you acknowledge the roles of other classes but you should also know when to take initiative and get the job done. Venos are mobile and very hard to kill, you should not shy away from small unpleasant duties such as going back for someone as you're one of the best qualified members of the squad for these odd jobs and one of the few that can take on multiple elites with relative ease. Hope some of this may be helpful.

Edit; Sorry for the extreme wall of text, think i really outdid myself...

Eoria - Harshlands

Pebblefish - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What is the reasoning behind not brambling a squishy class like Cleric or Wizard? Does it cause aggro if its deflected, or is it overpowering one of their own buffs?

I'm still trying to do the same as you - figure out my place in a squad. I've had some people say that Venos are too slow because we have to lure (though I think they might prefer not dying, even if there's a cleric to rez), or that we don't particularly have a use if there is a Barb or BM nearby to tank.

Speaking as a cleric, most of us don't want it on us unless we're tanking so we don't attract more aggro than we do already with healing. Also, if you're going to lure with herc or any pet with the pet bramble buff, make sure it does not have its bramble buff on or it'll aggro all the mobs in the group. The only real times where you should be brambling everyone is on bosses with phys AOE like Percussion in 1-1 because the AOE will reflect.

Unfortunately, luring is necessary a lot of the time and it's a lot better for a veno to do it on bosses like Wurlord due to Bramble Hood. Venos are also capable of luring from farther away than a genie can. This is due in part to ranged lures like cactuses and eldergoth sharpshooters.

To elaborate on purge, it is needed for certain bosses like the Ape boss in 2-2 and 2-3 (forgive me, I don't know the name). Holeen in FC will also buff himself and Armageddon did as well in old 3-3 (dunno about now). It is also very much needed for Massacre Seven in Lunar since he'll go berserk after awhile and the status would need to be purged. I think Steelation also does this berserk status as well now, so... :P

Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver

Fact is a level 60+ should have no problem killing farren all by herself with no outside help at all.
One last thing to mention....Never bramble other venos...Ihate bramble on me:) As in I dont want aggro an I certainly dont want to keep it if i get it...

Yindra - Sanctuary

Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Fact is a level 60+ should have no problem killing farren all by herself with no outside help at all.

Could somebody tell him about this? Last time I tried he didn't know.

[ Although I can't be sure it was Farren. It was just one of the bosses whose power I had to investigate... and even though the job is done the Elder didn't give me a reward. I guess he didn't like the paperwork I filed, which sums up to "Too powerful to handle quietly. Suggest dropping a nuke" ]

khailen

With all respect LadyHellcat i really cant c how it would b possible 4 me 2 solo him as there was 4 lvl 56+ members and 1 lvl 80 and still not everyone survived. I'm sure you know tons more about this game then i do, but unless i had a herc i don't think i would have survived solo. I did mine at lvl 50 with a squad and was just helpin a friend this time so maybe il have a try and c if i'm wrong and it's possible.

Desdi - Sanctuary

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Purging; For PvE you should only require this at higher levels, i'll let someone more experienced comment on this.

That contained incredible information b:victory It explained pretty much everything.
I'll add my experience with Purge.


Purge indeed is a skill that you won't ever touch at lower levels in PvE ( in PvP is whole different story). I think Purge should be leveled after lvl70/lvl75 unless you choose to level it up earlier (but it's better to keep the spirit and money for other skills that have the priority).
Purge will be essential in some particular TTs which are 2-2, 2-3, 3-1, 3-2, 3-3 (correct me if the 3-x are wrong). There is a boss (or more according to the TT you are doing) that self buff themselves and make it a pain for the squad. The buffs include Increased Physical Defence, Increased Magic Defence, Increased Attack. Purging them will be essential and it's important to have it the maxed because even though you purge the boss's self buffs away he will buff himself again just a few seconds after you purge him.

The first time I did TT2-2 I had Purge lvl 5 and it turned out to be so embarrasing b:surrender the squad itself didn't say anythng but I felt bad since the cooldown was so big. I could have saved a lot of time if it was maxed.

khailen

You are so right Desdi i'v learned so much from this thread! I really can't thank everyone enough for giving me so much valuable advice

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Exception on not brambling arcanes: on certain AOE bosses in TT (drummer and Soulbanisher in 1-x, General Feng in 2-x), bramble everyone, because the AOE reflects off bramble.

Crescendia - Harshlands

When I started this game for the first time, the wiki helped me learn what people expect from venomancers.

Read this, it helped me and in the end there's a section about 2 very important things you should learn to do as a veno.

http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/The_General_and_Generic_Venomancer_Guide

And here is a section where you can click each one to learn different parts of being a veno

http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Venomancer_Guides


I hope reading this helps you, it helped me a lot b:victory

Crescendia - Harshlands

And about people posting here what you can and can't solo. I didn't solo anything until I was level 90+ except grind quests each level. The more you work with a squad, the more you learn about your class and others.

However, if you do prefer to play alone, power to ya b:cute

Zairi - Dreamweaver

Hm i soloed Farren with a Glacial Walker at 60. I probably could have earlyer but i was LA back then and wore p.att rings, no +mag and zero -channeling gear. How your squad died there...especially a lv 80 veno...im speechless. The only way i can explain that is that they constantly ran into his AoE range and then stayed there. And things i also saw alot: people who didnt understand that some mobs in there explode uppon death and that you better not AoE kill them all at once....

If you have a good Weapon (i use Ancient Arbor) and decent m.att rings and +mag to power up the pet heals you'll be fine. Ok of corse you need a leveled tank pet and haveing Tough helps as well. If Glacial Walker can do it Magmicite probably can too, i have no experiance with a Shadou Cub but i guess it works too at 60.
His AoE is indeed very nasty but a leveled up Pet Heal has enough range to allow yourself healing it without triggering Farrens AoE. Just stay behind the pet. If he does the +channel time debuff just glue yourself to the heal button and you might wanna save Tough for that it will enable your pet to live through the less frequent heals. He only did it once everytime i killed him i guess he only uses it once his HP reached a certain point, not sure tho sorry.
I hope that helped a bit.
Id encourage you to try some bosses alone it is fun and its always nice to know what you and your pet can achieve together. ^^

On a sidenote: I have simply no idea why a lvl 80 Veno would put a way lower Veno in charge of his/her pet. The only time i ever asked another veno to help heal was when i was 47, we killed Qingzi for BH, my Bug had to tank and it would have died cos my heals werent enough. I have to asume that Veno just was to lazy to watch out for her pet.b:shocked

Taranta - Dreamweaver

Zairi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

On a sidenote: I have simply no idea why a lvl 80 Veno would put a way lower Veno in charge of his/her pet. The only time i ever asked another veno to help heal was when i was 47, we killed Qingzi for BH, my Bug had to tank and it would have died cos my heals werent enough. I have to asume that Veno just was to lazy to watch out for her pet.b:shocked

It really depends on the situation. It was a while back, but I was asked to heal my faction leader's herc in TT 3-1. They were lvl...89 or 90+. Don't really remember on that fact, but I was maybe in the high 6x range. If the higher level will be a much more effective dd compared to the lower (and the lower veno can keep up on healing), then it makes more sense than putting the lower veno on damage duty, making the fight go longer and potentially killing party members/ wasting resources.

I personally have only occasionally used other venos to heal my pets, simply because managing your own pets is part of what a good veno does. If this 80+ veno can't keep an eye on their own pet while attacking, then I'd recommend avoiding partying with them again. They're too used to getting other people to do stuff for them...and while that could be fixed if they were willing to change, I doubt that they will be.

MageMERC - Harshlands

Good Advice already given on this subject

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=810152&highlight=wanna+fail+veno

Carnica - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think Cocobelle did a good job describing a veno's work so i'll just comment on her instructions;


Edit; Sorry for the extreme wall of text, think i really outdid myself...

Yes, you certainly did! That was an awesome mini-guide!

Carnica - Heavens Tear

I would like to add to all the good advice give above -

I always Amp Damage on most every boss, and sometimes use my Sage Soul Degenerate on them (lowers their HP by 20%).

I also use Befuddling Mist (lowers their accuracy by 25% for 8 seconds) on most melee bosses.

I cannot grasp a veno who would just stand there tossing an occasional Scarab or something - we are a good class that can add a lot to a party!