Desiree's Detailed Veno PvP Guide

Desiree - Harshlands

The discussion has led me into further tinkering with pwcalc.

For comparison, here's my current gear and stats as pure vit. The two recasted pieces are almost completely faction-farmed (no way would I ever have been able to afford that many uncannies back when they were 1m per), the cape was bought super cheap at 40m, and the two rings obtained through a genie trade, and cube neck was for a real-life trade. Keep in mind that pwcalc doesn't calculate Nirvana % bonuses properly, but it'd really only make max 300 defence difference unbuffed.

Pure vit:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=6fc726c3524e6712
7749 HP / 6122 pdef / 8096 mdef / 5379-6091 matk / 7% crit

If I were to restat to pure mag and chose a better lunar weapon:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=94d052ca7fb4fcb1
4964 HP / 4947 pdef / 8502 mdef / 8980-9096 matk / 9% crit

If I were to originally have planned for HA (which I didn't since I knew I could not financially support the build), replacing the Cloudcharger with a lunar cape and getting a lvl 5 tome somehow:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=28f3eb54d73c2242
8003 HP / 7416 pdef / 4805 mdef / 4606-6711 matk / 12% crit

My attempt at creating an equivalent LA-dex build:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=69a107eafe50bde1
6320 HP / 5030 pdef / 6263 mdef / 5400-5477 matk / 25% crit

LA-mag
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=a96327ee676127ae
6194 HP / 4993 pdef / 6568 mdef / 6237-6326 matk / 22% crit


In comparison to HA, I'd stick with vit-arcane due to the extremely low mdef from being HA (I can't refine sufficiently high enough to justify HA). In comparison to pure mag, my matk almost doubles but I become an easy 2-3 shot glass cannon (bad for TWs). In comparison to LA, vit-arcane has much higher HP and defences for tanking but LA's crit will make killing some hard targets that are impossible for vit builds to kill possible (with extreme luck). Comparing LA with pure mag, however, pure mag's matk almost doubles LA's, so I'd rather take the guarantee'd double damage than only 25% crit.


Extending far beyond my budget, here's projected stats for each build:

Pure vit:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=093551df7bc96f9d
11949 HP / 8760 pdef / 8160 mdef / 8566-9591 matk / 11% crit

Pure mag:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=22fc22c2d7b9cba2
8979 HP / 8057 pdef / 10326 mdef / 13836-15491 matk / 13% crit

Heavy:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=cc618a9faa1da8f1
15246 HP / 7397 pdef / 8852 mdef / 8590-9614 matk / 13% crit

LA-mag:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ded741771015894b
13414 HP / 6811 pdef / 9130 mdef / 10133-11429 matk / 23% crit

LA-dex:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=393dea101ba73cd0
13414 HP / 6811 pdef / 8493 mdef / 8054-9084 matk / 28% crit

Looking at these numbers, heavy > pure vit. Pure mag has 4k less HP than LA but has higher pdef/mdef. LA has 10-15% more crit than pure mag but pure mag has 1.5x LA's matk. Thats 1/3-1/4 chance of critting vs 1/6 chance of critting but each attack is always 1.5x more damage. I would personally go for the pure mag guarantee and higher potential crit damage.

On a side note, I'm curious on how its possible to obtain over 30% crit unbuffed without seriously undercutting your mag points. Never have stated LA that high lvl, I can't speak from experience, but the numbers just don't match... Again, I see there to be only two kinds of builds for PvP - tank or DD. My doubts of a viable LA build for PvP comes from comparison of numbers (both calculated and roughly tested in-game) and comparing the builds of other venos on my server. I have yet to meet any veno who has maintained LA after 90 and back then, the majority of those who were LA were pretty bad at PvP; the small handful of good LA PvPers all went full HA or HA/AA after 95. If you truely believe there to be a suitable LA build for PvP, feel free to write a little mini-section on it (including a description of its advantages/disadvantages over the other pure builds) and I can edit it into this guide.

~Desiree

Solandri - Heavens Tear

axt57 wrote: »

Solandri might number crunch and use those numbers to justify his arguments - but thats his fault; a lot of his calculations rely on perfect conditions which simply do not happen in this game. It is unfortunate that others (like you) gobble up these numbers and then regurgitate them as absolute fact. Further more, I wouldn't be surprised if you misunderstood most of them.

Just a few clarifications:

I never use calculations to justify an argument. I do the calculations, then make the argument based on the calculations. I tend to have good mathematical insight, so a lot of times I can see a trend others might miss without having to do the calculations. But quite often I've done the calculations and my initial guess as to how they'd turn out were wrong. I then report this and change my argument to match. It may look like the calculations are made to support the argument, but that's just because of the way I present it: calcs + argument together, so the preface is written with the conclusion in mind. Usually I don't post an argument unsubstantiated, then follow up with calculations afterward.

Most of the calculations I do are for average conditions, not perfect. I do try to state up-front what it is I'm trying to do - be it maximize DPS, maximize damage per cast/hit, maximize damage per mana, etc. In some cases where an average is impossible or not representative of real world situations, I'll do a min/max calculation to show the range of possibilities.

I haven't touched much on the efficacy of criticals for punching through charms since I'm not into PvP. But if I were interested in it, my background in statistics is more than sufficient to present a comprehensive overview of it, not the vastly oversimplified "it works well in real gameplay" you report. I'm talking 3D graphs of kill probability based on hp*def and crit% and damage range. It's not that complex a problem.

It's for that reason that I've never countered any of your arguments that light armor works well in PvP. I simply don't know, and I don't care. What I have done is comparisons of defensive capabilities of sharded light vs. arcane (light loses badly). But I thought I made it pretty clear that that was purely a defensive comparison. I've made no judgments as to the effectiveness of light offensively nor overall in PvP.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Just what I expected from you Desiree b:victory I've been waiting for this!
Although I'm not interested in PvP myself, reading your guide was a real pleasure. The descriptions and personal experiences you added for pets, pet skills, Venomancer skills, genie skills, techniques, builds...are all very useful even for a PvE/Newcomer Venomancer.

Thank you for making such a wonderful up to date and detailed guide b:thanks

axt57

I'd say this is a better LA build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=224f64e6c28b15b9

It has over 5k more HP over pure mag (when both are barb buffed) and nearly double the crit (and this build has more -channel). The slight defence difference is negligible when you consider the 75% PvP reduction. I'm not familair with the robe that was used.

It also does more DPS vs the HA, but that has just under 3k HP more and PWcalc does not accuratly display the TT nirvana stats; so I can't say anything about defence.

A slight bonus of LA is the extra evasion. Its funny but I have been saved by it a few times; especially vs archers.

On a side note, I'm curious on how its possible to obtain over 30% crit unbuffed without seriously undercutting your mag points.

Could get a crit cape instead of channel, the doom of flowers can have a maximum of 9% crit on it (inc. the shards), you can swap your 5% hp necky for a crit one if you're confident your're not going to be attacked/can take a few extra hits, both demon wood and leaf dance = +4% crit, etc.

kenlee

Desiree - Harshlands wrote: »

Comparing LA with pure mag, however, pure mag's matk almost doubles LA's.
...
On a side note, I'm curious on how its possible to obtain over 30% crit unbuffed without seriously undercutting your mag points.
~Desiree

wanted to point this out. i know wizards that already have like 17-18k magic atk unbuffed. as sage they dont even need much crit rate gear since they can get 20% more from 1 skill and their skills can have up to 500% weapon atk damage. that crit doesnt even matter, they already can do up to 40k damage if they crit. on the other hand if you want crits, just go pure dex archer because you dont have to waste precious dex on mag. with same (similar) gear an archer or a wiz can do much more than that LA veno imo. in the end.. veno is more a support than a DD.

kenlee

axt57 wrote: »

I'd say this is a better LA build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=224f64e6c28b15b9

and here is pure vit equivalent imo
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=72a0f2859ac8bd0b

again, i cant find that robe with 1% crit. anyway you wont have that 2% more pdef that comes on TT->nirvana armor because thats the robe/LA armor that comes from lunar. sure, it has like 11% less crit but same magic atk, almost 2k more hp and a lot more magic defence. most players just look at their pdef and say ok i have enough defense but i have to repeat myself, there is one magic buff resist and 2 pdef buffs. even that LA build is 1 shot for similar wizard... undine and bids or bt. with my 10k magic defense i get about 8k a shot from a +12 wiz, debuffed i got 21k one time and im a damn robe. now i understand how they do 40k damage on barbs. archers have purge too and they hit for about half or more than wizards but like twice faster

back to the subject, this will be the pure mag version imo
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=68f87027916a35b9

enough mag to almost match the crit from LA build. when this build crit it does a lot more damage than LA build. buffed can get pretty high magic resist and also respectable pdef.

axt57 wrote: »

the doom of flowers can have a maximum of 9% crit on it (inc. the shards), you can swap your 5% hp necky for a crit one if you're confident your're not going to be attacked/can take a few extra hits, both demon wood and leaf dance = +4% crit, etc.

i know players that rolled that 2nd recast a few times. you pretty much get that first main addon like most of the time. i belive that +20 atk lvl is like less that 1% chance to get it.
so, you get 3% for sure the the probability to get crits as secondary addon and get 2x that crit is less. you can end up spending double the amount of rapture used for g15 just for a possible extra crit.
i already counted leaf dance (hope is wrong description) and demon mastery and still i cant find that 40% crit or more

as a final note, that LA build with all gear 4 sockets and all primeval stones and everything +10 will probably cost more than rank 9 (which is much better gear)

Desiree - Harshlands

axt57 wrote: »

I'd say this is a better LA build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=224f64e6c28b15b9

I accidentally put the wrong cape in - wasn't suppose to have any -channeling ><
The 2x HH Nirvana (sleeves and helmet) are for the +5atk lvl bonus, so it should be LA unless you're going to wear an AA hat (all AA refine for significantly less too).

Here's me doing a bit more messing around, without buffs. I'll play around a bit more once I get back from work...

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d0a5bc95617564bc

axt57

Desiree - Harshlands wrote: »

I accidentally put the wrong cape in - wasn't suppose to have any -channeling ><
The 2x HH Nirvana (sleeves and helmet) are for the +5atk lvl bonus, so it should be LA unless you're going to wear an AA hat (all AA refine for significantly less too).

Here's me doing a bit more messing around, without buffs. I'll play around a bit more once I get back from work...

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=d0a5bc95617564bc

I guess you really don't like channeling? I know I make it sound like crit is the only thing you need on LA, but that's not the case. You may say that the extra HP is worth it - which is a fair point; but I have seriously lost count how many times my lucky scarab has hit an archer about to fire off a stunning arrow (which would have resulting in near certain death).

Also pwcalc says that havenragers have 3% crit for some reason; its actually 2%... I am also using lunar nirvava in the examples only because its not bugged in pwcalc. Imo the TT nirvana is superior (and sexier).

Desiree - Harshlands

axt57 wrote: »

I guess you really don't like channeling? I know I make it sound like crit is the only thing you need on LA, but that's not the case. You may say that the extra HP is worth it - which is a fair point; but I have seriously lost count how many times my lucky scarab has hit an archer about to fire off a stunning arrow (which would have resulting in near certain death).

With my lag (play on a laptop and am connected via wifi so group PvP often gets choppy), it makes little difference to me. -12% channeling only cuts off ~0.1s of channeling time off each spell - hardly a noticeable/reliable difference compared to either more matk or more crit. I have a total of -18% channeling (2 rings, sleeves) and can get up to -24% without using odd ornaments, but I haven't seen any significant difference unless I'm spam healing in HH. That is not to say, however, that channeling is not worth it. I've seen venos with -30-40% channeling and they fire scarabs like a machine gun. But those builds usually use mdef ornaments and I'm not willing to sacrifice my TW/group PvP survivability for that. Veno skills are already fast-casting enough in my opinion for -chan to not be worth pursuing so heavily.

Edit:
Here's the exact comparison of LA vs AA with me trying to match up the numbers as close as possible (note, the wierd chest is because pwcalc doesn't have anything but 1st recast arcane chest, so you have to manually enter the numbers):

Your LA build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=224f64e6c28b15b9
Unbuffed: 13048 HP / 7170 pdef / 9509 mdef / 8529-9622 matk / 1380 evasion / 25% crit
Buffed: 17273 HP / 21072 pdef / 12982 mdef / 10010-11289 matk / 1380 evasion / 25% crit

My equivalent AA build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=1eea6843f15ac897
Unbuffed: 13157 HP / 5701 pdef / 12295 mdef / 8529-9622 matk / 1380 evasion / 25% crit
Buffed: 17417 HP / 16857 pdef / 16686 mdef / 10010-11289 matk / 1380 evasion / 25% crit


Unbuffed, AA has 109 more HP, 2786 more mdef but 1469 less pdef. Fully buffed, the difference is even more significant; +144 HP / +3704 mdef / -4215 pdef.

Using this exact comparison of numbers for gears of equal value, LA has higher unbuffed human form pdef but AA has a lot more mdef (and a tad bit more HP). This may change if you refine past +10, but in that realm, HA will drastically triumph over both LA and AA. Using HH Nirvana, LA will have significantly higher pdef but AA would have very significantly higher mdef. To counter that, remember that there are two pdef buffs (cleric's vanguard and BM's aura of the bell) plus the veno's own fox form compared to only one mdef buff (cleric's magic shell). Having slightly higher pdef fully buffed won't be as beneficial as having high mdef to avoid getting 2-shot by +12 8jun wizards. If you are willing to look into formulas, Solandri proved earlier in some other thread (via graphing pure data and calculating the correlation) that the effective damage reduction from pdef/mdef values has diminishing returns. AA fully buffed will have an even 17k/17k whereas LA will have an odd 21k/13k.

Also keep in mind that the comparison AA build I made is strongly skewed so that I could match your LA build's values almost exactly - no right-minded AA player would ever stat 200 points into dex and most would shard at least some pdef gems. Regardless, those are the compared numbers and, as far as gear is concerned, stats are independent of playstyle or skill.


Edit 2:
Just out of curiosity, here's the equivalent HA build (note that its not completely matched up because after filling all the stat requirements, I had less than 20 stats to play around with, all of which had to go into mag to up the matk):

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=654b2d1fc9d12064
Unbuffed: 15216 HP / 9296 pdef / 9837 mdef / 8428-9505 matk / 504 evasion / 18% crit
Buffed: 20143 HP / 24893 pdef / 13417 mdef / 9913-11176 matk / 504 evasion / 18% crit

Differences compared to LA are +2168/2870 HP, +2126/3821 pdef, +328/435 mdef, -117/113 matk, -876 evasion, -7% crit. Going HA at this stage would very, very, very significantly increase your survivability at the cost of a small amount of matk and a significant loss of 7% crit (but you go HA for defence, not damage). Extrapolate even further to +12, HA gains even more of a HP difference gap, reaching over 20.1k/26.7k HP vs LA's 17.0k/22.5k HP (AA gets shafted at 16.3k/21.6k HP)


~Desiree

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear

Its a good build guide for certain... I'm an HA Veno with ... Mediocre Equips at best, and I still manage to rock the screen pretty well. My M-Attck is higher then some of those Calcs though. But that could be my choice in Magic weapon. Anyway, with all the drama on this thread, its still a good guide for a decent PVP Veno. Not the end all to be all though. Venos are SO versatile, and anyone with some serious skills can make an build work for them =D

axt57

Have to remember that LA can wear robes to boost m.def when needed. Vit arcane/pure magic cannot wear LA or HA, so they don't get an option to boost p.def on the fly (well, appart from foxform/buffs).

I personally have a robe set hotkeyed.

Also all these comparisons are done with lunar nirvana; would be much more interesting to see the defence of TT nirvana - and the clear advantage those armours provide for HA/LA over Robes.

As for facing +12 wizards... the best defence is a very strong offence (which the LA provides). I have never faced a +12 wizard before - at least not 1v1, but have bursted down plenty of CS wizards to know that no amount of armour will save you as a veno for long.

kenlee

axt57 wrote: »

Have to remember that LA can wear robes to boost m.def when needed. Vit arcane/pure magic cannot wear LA or HA, so they don't get an option to boost p.def on the fly (well, appart from foxform/buffs).

I personally have a robe set hotkeyed.

for that i need to face enemies 1vs1 and i rarely see that happening. i think it easier just to swap neck/belt instead of swaping a robe set. how many players have a set of +10 LA and a set of +10 sharded AA? since AA is 2nd choise it might have much lower refines and shards. a wizard can still do physical and magic damage in the same time, he is gonna use blade tempest vs a veno no matter what. its hard for veno to fight +12 wiz since they have better control/escape skills (for those who know how to play wiz right)
also most of the pvp is happening in TW. even AA can reach 20k pdef, just enough to go and purge someone and get some hits from melee around

Aniella - Harshlands

Since i quite pwi i can give away my #best# pvp move that are able 2 kill lvl 100+ w nirvana,rankgear/wep easier.

This way 2 kill is realy powerfull but , only work w that person u gona atk not know.

1. use Sage/demon spark.(have full chi)
2. genie w exstram Poison. use poison Afther sage spark.
3. use ironwood + pets bleed.
4.stun - ur own ..or pets. xD

xD its realy powerfull even a veno w 5k mag atk do alot. but pure build will do much more.

blizzypol

Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »

Since i quite pwi i can give away my #best# pvp move that are able 2 kill lvl 100+ w nirvana,rankgear/wep easier.

This way 2 kill is realy powerfull but , only work w that person u gona atk not know.

1. use Sage/demon spark.(have full chi)
2. genie w exstram Poison. use poison Afther sage spark.
3. use ironwood + pets bleed.
4.stun - ur own ..or pets. xD

xD its realy powerfull even a veno w 5k mag atk do alot. but pure build will do much more.

Desiree - Harshlands wrote: »

This guide is for serious PvPers on PvP servers. While most of this is veno-specific, much of the guide can be applied to other classes. This guide assumes that you are 90+, on a PvP server, enjoy fair fights of skill (i.e. not ganking all the time) ... or (you) just enjoy running around ganking lowbies, this is not for you.

Please, proceed to leaving this thread alone.

wildwolfrider

First off, overall the guide seems really good. I would suggest though that you call it more what it is: a pk guide for arcane venos rather then just dismissing both LA and HA builds. Just dismissing any group of players destroys a ton of credibility when the rest of your post actually has good ideas and strategies. Veno is one of the most versatile classes in the game and allows for a remarkable variety of play styles. This makes any guide hard to write for venos, unless of course you have one veno of each type that you have played to end game.

I will state up front that I am not yet at end-game gear, but my own heavy armor build (and the equipment I already have for closer to end game) does not reduce my own magic attack nearly as much as might be expected when compared to an arcane veno. By no means am I claiming to have the magic attack of pure arcane, but there are strategies that both heavy and light armor venos use that arcanes just never need to think of.

I always, always, always have at least 2 full sets of gear with me: my heavy set and my arcane set. My heavy set includes more crit gear (I haven't flushed this out as much, to be honest, and thus only have a 10% crit rate with it and it only gets that high when I'm using phys attack rings), and my arcane set focuses on channeling (I easily have -33% channeling and have room for more once I find equipment with -6% to replace my -3% ones). I have one weapon sharded with sapphires for mag attack and one with garnets for phys attack - this will probably change to just 1 weapon sharded with sapphires for true end game gear.

I lose a little over 1.5K HP when switching to arcane, but when facing an arcane class you need the mdef. Admittedly, end game with high gear refines, the HP difference will be more noticeable.

Heavy Armor requires a lot more planning and attention to exactly what stats you have where and being willing to spend money on an equipment piece with +10str and +5mag or a ring with +5 str +5 dex and -6% chan. I don't cash shop, but I am good at finding deals and I have gotten REALLY lucky with a couple of drops from times I've soloed instances.

While leveling up to 80 I used LA, and then I also always had 2 armor sets in case I needed arcane, so I assume other end game LA's also carry around at least a partial second set. I could be wrong there, though, but end game LA has more flexibility to wear both crit and channel gear at the same time. Beyond that, I don't really know much about LA pk, since I really didn't do it that much while leveling.

For heavy, I assume many are like me: more then 1 gear set, and I always have my armor hot-keyed to switch between one set and the other almost instantly. When fighting a melee class, I'm in heavy and I nuke. When fighting arcanes, I'm in arcane robes and using a combo of nuking and fox form skills - depending a lot on which breaks from myriad go off when - and using lucky/stunning blow to keep them still. If I need to, I can also put on a combo of heavy and arcane.

No matter what armor I'm in when fighting a wizzie channeling BIDS or BT it generally involves absolute domain/sparking/etc, etc etc to avoid getting hit.

iamgodtruestory

amazing guide.....it really is "detailed" xD

but anyways.... i wud think seamonster guardian shud make it to the pet list as a great mag.def dps pet.... just a suggestion

one of the longest guides i have ever read but it is really good... thx fr the guide extremely helpful

EDIT : if i necro'ed... srry

Boned - Lost City

Why the balls is this not stickied?

Oxlinsey - Raging Tide

Bumped for great justice.

Fistol - Raging Tide

Oxlinsey - Raging Tide wrote: »

Bumped for great justice.

bump for necro you mean

with r9 for veno now.. is there still arguement? b:laugh

keripo

Fistol - Raging Tide wrote: »

bump for necro you mean

with r9 for veno now.. is there still arguement? b:laugh

This guide was written back when HH99 was standard end-game gear all around.
That said, much of this guide still applies today (e.g. the strategy parts). In the context of an 9jun world, however, the keep the following changes in mind:

Pets = Pure Support
With the higher base pdefs of the average player nowadays, the damage of Flesh Ream is becoming more and more negligible. Your damage will come mostly, if not wholely, from your veno's magic attacks. Whatever pet you choose, it should be taught assist skills as opposed to damage skills (e.g. Pounce, Howl, etc)

Pure Mag or HA
Pure vit build is no longer a viable build due to the scale of refine bonuses. With +10 refines being the baseline, neither is LA. Either go pure mag or pure HA. Pure mag if you play the offensive, pure HA if you play the support role. For pure mag, 8jun is your end-game; for HA, Nirvana is.

9jun is for wizards, not venos
Do not waste your money and buy full 9jun. Yes, 9jun (or "rank9") is the best gear for venos stat-wise. That said, know this: You are spending money to get the best gear for the worst class. Yes, in my opinion, venos are the worst class end-game. Their prime is lvl 7x-9x, but past 9x, they drastically lose their utility. In the past, base damage from skills constituted as a large portion of your offensive damage, whether you were pure mag or not. With +10 refines being common-day, however, damage slowly starts to shift to weapon damage. The advantage that venos had from fast channeling and high base damage is being ousted by the better-scaling offensive skills of the other classes (particularly wizards). Purge has been replaced by purge bows and nix damage is laughable. If you argue that venos are good magical DD's, I will counter by saying that wizards are better ones. I wrote this guide with that belief in mind but wasn't actually expecting it to be so drastic with the introduction of 9jun.

PvP is a game of chance
Make Armour Break and Mind Breaks an integral part of your 1v1 PvP strategy. Expect your opponent to have 10k+ HP unbuffed. 10k HP is a lot to take down when you are not a nuker class. So what do you do when your opponent has over 15k mdef unbuffed? You bring it down to zero (or effectively zero - the reduction isn't exactly as advertised). You have two skills that can accomplish this: Myriad Rainbow and Myriad Rainbow (Fox Form). Keep in mind, however, that both skills use chi and massive MP. They, however, might be your only key to winning a 1v1 against a tough opponent. A plausible strategy is to keep your opponent stunlocked or keep kiting until you get that lucky proc.

Resist, not reduce
Become more apt at timing your anti-stun + Ironguard combos. We now PvP in a world where anyone with a credit card can easily 2-3 shot you if you are caught by surprise. Survivability is no longer about damage reduction - it is now about damage evasion. This means that Dews of Star Protection are drastically less useful than Ironguards and Sutra Powder Orbs. Both Expel and Absolute Domain should be hotkeyed (I use "V" and "Shift+V" respectively).

I've retired from playing my veno but these are the experiences and opinions that I've gathered since returning after the map reset.

~Keripo

Oxlinsey - Raging Tide

Even if it is a necro you really can't deny that Desiree was one of the greatest venomancers on PWI. Ever.

Worth a necro.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

Many of us have asked for this guide to be stickied , however we were ignored multiple times , hope it will change in the near future

mindy0816

OMG STICKY THIS!! Ya, I'm necroing, but this player took a very long time to write a very comprehensive guide. Should be rewarded! This has helped me soooo much! Kudos!

Nine_Lives - Raging Tide

mindy0816 wrote: »

OMG STICKY THIS!! Ya, I'm necroing, but this player took a very long time to write a very comprehensive guide. Should be rewarded! This has helped me soooo much! Kudos!

i second the motion on this one...

Yuniku - Harshlands

keripo wrote: »

Pure Mag or HA
Pure vit build is no longer a viable build due to the scale of refine bonuses. With +10 refines being the baseline, neither is LA. Either go pure mag or pure HA. Pure mag if you play the offensive, pure HA if you play the support role. For pure mag, 8jun is your end-game; for HA, Nirvana is.

why is LA not viable, im not saying its the best but it cant be that bad...

Mauntille - Heavens Tear

*Link name updated in links sticky.*

Not exactly a sticky, but better than permanently buried.

Sotto - Lost City

keripo wrote: »

Purge has been replaced by purge bows

I'm just looking to get back into PWI because I miss my Veno, and now I hear this from 6 months ago. It's probably even worse now... T_T

http://nooooooooooooooo.com

ravenleandra

Yuniku - Harshlands wrote: »

why is LA not viable, im not saying its the best but it cant be that bad...

I got la veno and having much fun ^^.Have a pure aswell and busy building an HA veno....But they not close as much fun as my la as my gears vit/dex high hp + good crit.Altho im perma fox for debuff amp+purge+genie tangle mire.Want to try and get interval gear for my veno wanna try some sick bs build for the lol of it b:laugh