Giving spark to who and when?

Maralin - Sanctuary

Hey. I have a mid lvl Veno and I love focusing on support stuff - I lure, amp, bramble, use p.def debuff and befuddling mist (on some bosses)... and give sparks. I like to do these things without having to ask me but I have a problem with giving sparks... I can't really decide who to give the spark and when. I usually give it to Clerics after BB and to Archers after Barrage... x.x I know I should give it to Barbs but I've never had a Barb and don't really know their skills. They usually don't even ask for sparks, but I want to be useful, I don't want to be just another Venomous spammer Veno. x.x

So um... what's the priority? Who to give sparks and when? :c
Thank you and sorry for my bad English!

Vixter - Harshlands

barbs flesh ream takes chi, and if they need to use it often to hold aggro, then their chi can go down fast, so passing to them every once in awhile is fine.

i also pass to cleric after BB (if theyre going to do it again soon, like 2-x forshura, or FC)

and you can also pass to BM after they do their dragon skill

MANray_ - Sanctuary

First priority should always be Cleric IF using Blue Bubble (Regeneration Aura) fortunately an easy enough skill to notice; characteristic sound, blue swirling lines around your char if in range and, of course, a large blue bubble shaped force field type effect around the Cleric.

Second priority should be the main tanker, usually a Barb, with spark eruption being the most conspicuous sign they will be needing chi. You can always assume the Barb will be using Ream on bosses (you'll see the tiger pounce with both paws and a golden light effect, can be hard to miss but the tell-tale sign is a bleed symbol on the mob) although good Barbs should be able to sustain their own use of chi it is considered good form to spark them so they can use other skills. Most commonly this will be Devour (white flash, phys def debuff). Other important skills to look for would be Sunder (tiger AoE with a white/red light effect as an expansion wave, don't mistake with Roar which is characterized by swords of light stabbing mobs) and Armageddon (humanoid AoE, golden explossion effect not to be mistaken with Slam which knocks mobs back).

I know it can sound a bit confusing at first but remember, when in doubt ask, in all likelyhood most players will be pleased to demonstrate their skills so you can better understand their class. Fortunately most skills for other classes consuming large amounts of chi are easy to distinguish, such as BM's Heaven's Flame (two red swirling dragons of energy surrounding the BM), Archer's Barrage of Arrows (a rain of large arrows of blue light falling upon the target) or Wizzie's Black Ice Dragon Strike (dragon of blue energy striking down on the target). Sparking is something you should do at your discretion through the whole run, not just at bosses, although bear in mind you shouldn't allow yourself to be treated as a spark dispenser, this is mostly a situational skill which you can use to ehance the performance of who you believe will be the most effective squad member at any given moment, which of course includes you.

On boss fights i usually like to give a spark as early as i can (usually try to wait for whoever's tanking to open with a couple of big hits) which should allow me to maximize the number of times i'll be using them in a fight. Always try to manage your own chi consumption however, as you'll need enough that you can frequently use Ironwood Scarab as well as being able to use your own chi skills should you need them. Not all tanks require sparking (usually melees and Archers just using regular hits) and DDs can on ocassion be a better use for the spark.

Finally, i would advice use not to abuse Parasitic Nova and to try never to be too much chi away from using Bramble Hood. I appalud your embracing the support role which is very important for the class, but don't forget you're also DD and that your damage output does benefit the squad as well. As for Beffudling Mist i take it your precission about only using it on some bosses to mean you wouldn't use it along with Bramble... I'm curious if you could tell me when you find it most useful, i may be missing something important myself.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

1st priority = Cleric after BB.
2nd = barb (Most barbs actually can sustain their own chi)

Never pass chi to a DD unless you be sure the cleric and tank doesn't need it then pass it to the BM or something for dragons.
Pretty much all DD classes can sustain their own chi easily.

SolSong - Heavens Tear

When in doubt ask in squad chat as well. I've found lower lvl barbs or BM tanks need more chi more often. The higher lvl ones usually build chi easily and will only ask if they need it. BMs that are using fists/claws usually build chi so fast you never have to worry about it. Some BMs will change out to fists/claws just to build chi faster then revert to axes for aoe skills.

_Surreal_ - Heavens Tear

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

1st priority = Cleric after BB.
2nd = barb (Most barbs actually can sustain their own chi)

Never pass chi to a DD unless you be sure the cleric and tank doesn't need it then pass it to the BM or something for dragons.
Pretty much all DD classes can sustain their own chi easily.

hamsta posted something which isnt complete crapb:shocked

Solandri - Heavens Tear

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

Never pass chi to a DD unless you be sure the cleric and tank doesn't need it then pass it to the BM or something for dragons.

Just in case anyone doesn't know what BM dragons is yet, it's Heaven's Flame, a two-spark axe skill which has the rather distinctive swirling gold dragons graphic. The reason you want your BM using it as much as possible is because it has a 6 sec 100% AOE Amplify damage effect, 9 sec if they have the Demon version.

It's got a 30 sec cooldown so a decent BM should be able to build up 2 sparks on their own without your help. But if they ask for chi to use the skill, by all means give it to them.

GuinevirX - Heavens Tear

_Surreal_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

hamsta posted something which isnt complete crapb:shocked

didn't u know , he has multiple personalities , but hey don't accuse him , i'm a fan of him when it comes to wizzies

Maddieson - Sanctuary

In addition to what everyone else said, spamming venomous isn't always a bad thing. I find it's a great skill in between having to amp and such, and that goes for the other skills too. Your also a DD, not just a support member.

Also, if you want to go really support type, get a fast pet with debuffs and such. Helps when the cleric has to spam IH and can't debuff.

Maralin - Sanctuary

I'm vit-hybrid but I DD when I can (between amps), but I like to debuff so we kill the bosses faster. That's why I'm going sage, I want sage soul degen. XD And the pet debuff is a good idea! :O

Thank you everyone. ^^


@MANray_: I use Befuddling on some melee bosses... x.x Dunno if it's a good idea... x) I actually got it for Gamma because the Gamme guide recommended it, heh. ^^; Not maxed yet, though.

tweakz

First priority should always be Cleric

**** the cleric if they want to BB constantly. There are bad venos and there are bad clerics. Some put BB right where we're trying to lure mobs, some heal while we're luring. If Cleric is over using BB: cut off their chi supply!

Second priority should be the main tanker

There are tanks out there that can hold aggro w/o outside chi and BM's heaven's flame can make things go faster.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Maralin - Sanctuary wrote: »

@MANray_: I use Befuddling on some melee bosses... x.x Dunno if it's a good idea... x) I actually got it for Gamma because the Gamme guide recommended it, heh. ^^; Not maxed yet, though.

I'll have to depend on the good will of a higher level to clear this up as i don't myself have any experience in Rebirth to speak of--- Conventional wisdom would have it as unwise to use Beffudling Mist on Brambled tanks however, as better aggro is considered a priority over what damage the lowered accuracy on the boss may prevent, although there are probably circumstances (perhaps working with a much higher level tank which the squad would have no hope of stealing aggro away from) where it could be convenient.

tweakz wrote: »

**** the cleric if they want to BB constantly. There are bad venos and there are bad clerics. Some put BB right where we're trying to lure mobs, some heal while we're luring. If Cleric is over using BB: cut off their chi supply!

I'm not sure i would risk a wipe just to teach someone a lesson, especially when the Cleric's intent (wether right or wrong) is to help the squad using a support skill. It's a Cleric's call (he knows his own capabilities better than anyone else) what skills he'll be using and when, just as much as a tank should be able to make his own mind about what exactly he can take on. Granted, it's also a veno's prerogative wether to spark or not (as i have previously stated) but normally i would consider it a veno's special responsability to protect a Cleric when he's putting him/herself at risk trying to protect us when luring. BB is a costly spell in terms of mana consumption and while certain Clerics may jump the gun too soon on its use, this is an honest mistake which only experience may correct. I have previously stated i regularly advice Clerics not to heal me on especially difficult lures, or if i feel the squad may not react fast enough, but this is a far call from predisposing them against supporting my class by repaying their generous, if mistaken, instincts with object lessons... Most people are smart enough to figure things out once you have gone through the trouble of providing them an explanation.

There are tanks out there that can hold aggro w/o outside chi and BM's heaven's flame can make things go faster.

Yes, i certainly agree with this and believe i made it clear as have many other posters. Regardless of which, it is usually smarter to first make sure the tanker can handle his/her chi expenditure before moving on to aiding others. The designated tanker does have priority as his failure may result in a squad wipe whereas not efficiently aiding DD merely results in a gimped damage output. It's a lesser of two evils scenario and it never hurts to be cautious.

SeaStorm - Heavens Tear

In regards to your support role:

If you're luring and BB is up remember to get out of BB range unless you want the entire group of mobs to join you. I've seen this happen in BH79 at Brig/Linus as well as Warsong (although in warsong we will on occasion purposely use it for this reason)

Anyone that is luring/pulling using pet or genie earthflame MUST be out of BB range. Not all classes realize you must be out of this range to pull, so it's good to pass that information along.

tweakz

I should clarify as I was in a mood when posting that.

Learn how much chi others actually need and what that chi does for the squad rather than trust that they need it. There are many lazy clerics that will drop bb every chance they get, when your chi would go farther if given to a BM providing they're using it for Heaven's Flame. Then if the BM is slow, like in FF for example: I'll use the Chi for Nova on the bishops and solo them if I must. There isn't really good rules for dispensing. Knowing your team and what they can do helps to make judgment calls.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

I should clarify as I was in a mood when posting that.

Learn how much chi others actually need and what that chi does for the squad rather than trust that they need it. There are many lazy clerics that will drop bb every chance they get, when your chi would go farther if given to a BM providing they're using it for Heaven's Flame. Then if the BM is slow, like in FF for example: I'll use the Chi for Nova on the bishops and solo them if I must. There isn't really good rules for dispensing. Knowing your team and what they can do helps to make judgment calls.

I agree, other than some basic guidellines this comes down to your expertise.

Brael - Dreamweaver

I give it to clerics after they BB provided they didn't BB in a bad spot (and they have time to get chi again afterwards). Most clerics overuse BB, but then again most players overuse clerics so I have a problem with blaming an over reliance of BB on clerics themselves.

Before getting 99 that was pretty much all the sparks I could give in a fight. Now that I can give them a lot faster, I'll give them to the tank if they ask, otherwise I'll give them to a DD if they're actually decent at their class (as in, I don't out damage them and they don't make aggro bounce making it impossible for a barb to interrupt, 1 change of aggro is 2 ae's the group takes) with an extra special stipulation for archers, they have to consistently sharptooth faster than I hit soul degeneration, if they don't do that they're automatically out of the running to be given sparks no matter their damage output.

As for BM's for heavens flame, I don't really like giving them sparks for that because my experience has been when I give a BM chi they use spark eruption. If I found one that actually used it every 30 seconds I would happily give the spark (bonus points if they time it for use during amplify) but most don't

Oh, on the subject of barbs... if you ever find yourself duoing with one or with a bad cleric and you have sage/demon lending (I'm in this position often), feed them every spark you can. Barbs have an ability called sunder which heals them. It's a good way to save their mp food/charm. The ability is 2 sparks and a 30 sec cooldown. Though sadly, you have to teach some barbs that it exists.