State of the Game - TT Act 3 Changes

Mendolin - Sanctuary

I am all for challenges in this game... I am one of the few that still does warsong and was close to farming a warsong belt- its one of the few challenges that was still left in the game... but it was doable. The packs came out... and it was easier/cheaper to just save and buy the Warsong Marshal Badge.
Same thing with Lunar... I was farming lunar rings, they nerfed lunar... packs came out and dropped the price and I just sold all my mats for 1 lunar ring I had farmed and bought 2

With this last patch... I almost felt like... instead of giving us new challenges- which requires actual work from the devs... you are just taking a shortcut and making things harder that already exist. Since when does this make sense?

I have good gear, granted its not the best but its pretty damn good xD I went from dieing 0 times in a 3-3 to dieing 5-6 times this weekend in 1 3-3 run... My charm was *****, I had to use pdef charms, crab meat, etc. The cost of all that.... was NOT worth it we finally killed arma after a couple trys but... there is one thing that Rawrgh said that really stands out with truth... These isntances are for people to GET endgame gear... not for people that already have it...

Yes I am one of the people who farms TT with 5.0s and we make money off it- BUT because of that, prices for gold mats are low and stable, now they will just go up and up

Nothing makes sense anymore >< even my post cuz I am so damn frustrated!

Yishuin - Sanctuary

I'm kinda surprised there is not too much QQing yet, compared to Anni packs times, because seriously this update is very very big : now you can't get your OHT and culti done, it's nice. And now 9x ppl will run in 2stars gears or OHT, amen.

simple :

TT3-X affect only lvl 90+ players

packs affect all player.

LOOOOL they deleted the post of MrMiMi

Yulk - Heavens Tear

QQ more

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

But we like watching you struggle. D=
(-cough- It has to do with the T and the H. )

Hahaha... oh.... I'm still laughing my **** off. b:victory

Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear

Yea..I remember doing a full warsong, it was really hard but once we figured out how to do it, it ended up being easy, and probably so much easier now.

---

I haven't had the *pleasure* to try the new instances, however by the looks of it..isn't it just a flashback of Harpy Wraith? He does a debuff..HUGE aoe damage..1-2 shots the tank then everyone else, could wipe entire guilds in 1 shot.

Yea..then people practiced, and now Harpy can be killed by 2 people.

Wouldn't this be something to just practice and see what you need to do to live/kill the boss?

Like TheDan said earlier, he was able to kill Steelation by debuffing the boss and kiting whenever needed, you just need to figure out what to do and when by practicing, and eventually it's gonna be a piece of cake.

Yea surely..it's **** that this happened..really hurts low levels and even high levels as well, but it's not like it's the end of TT farming lol.

---

This was posted by me in the other thread made similar to this..until some fail mod decided to move it (we all know who it is) and NOT listen to us and move it back here like we requested..oh why does that sound familiar..

Figured people need to consider the above ^

Btw lol..I now see that Duke shouts everything now, herc and nixes, baby snow hares LOL! As well as everything from the packs..didn't people request that these messages get turned off entirely? But what happened..the community was completely not listened to, and you guys did the exact opposite..

lol..

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear wrote: »

TheDan said earlier, he was able to kill Steelation by debuffing the boss and kiting whenever needed, you just need to figure out what to do and when by practicing, and eventually it's gonna be a piece of cake.

Yea surely..it's **** that this happened..really hurts low levels and even high levels as well, but it's not like it's the end of TT farming lol..

The problem is, have you looked at his level? Did you look at the level of his squad? Did you see their standard of gear?

The difficulty change in itself isn't an issue, the issue is that people who would be farming that instance for their gear - not for money or profit but for their gear - are now not able to do so. When you have well geared +10 people way above the level of the instance struggling you can't sit and say "Well we just did this and it was cool" because you clearly aren't thinking about who that instance is aimed at.

This is the issue. TT 3-1 isn't aimed at 5aps BMs to farm. It's aimed at high 8x low 9x people who need to farm their gears. These people have no been unreasonably punished for something they were never doing in the first place and now cannot run that instance to get their gear, period.

↑ That is not okay. That is a huge sign something is broken. That needs to be fixed. That's not a challenge, that's just a mess.

StormDragoon - Sanctuary

LOL, so now that devs are bored and don't know what to put into this game new. They go like we are gonna increase difficulty for TTs -_- Lame.

The reason people play a game as much as you want it to be is for a challenge and gearing up, the desire to progress, if those things are nearly impossible for people already geared then it's just pathetic to even try. Is this crying much: Please, put more gold in the game or something like that??? I wonder if Devs think people don't see this. Because as much as there is a community that puts in money in a constant basis, if they dont have a no non or almost non-cashhoppers in the game to compete with, even they will leave.

So great thinking ahead and planning, seems people that are making the changes into the game have never actually played their own game.

Now 3-3 has to be done with GM gears (when are this coming out, perhaps 20 grand a piece?). Farming gears for lower levels is now just impossible. I can't imagine people at their low 90s and mid 90s farming 3-3s for their own gear.

You are turning the game into a frustration instead of something fun out of it. I hope you realize this before it's too late, everything has a toleration level, newer levels who are not yet being affected by this will see it soon and they won't be able to progress, so no point there.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

The chance is interesting.

*adds it to the "list of excuses not to farm TT equips"* b:pleased

Mendolin - Sanctuary

Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yea..I remember doing a full warsong, it was really hard but once we figured out how to do it, it ended up being easy, and probably so much easier now.

---

I haven't had the *pleasure* to try the new instances, however by the looks of it..isn't it just a flashback of Harpy Wraith? He does a debuff..HUGE aoe damage..1-2 shots the tank then everyone else, could wipe entire guilds in 1 shot.

Yea..then people practiced, and now Harpy can be killed by 2 people.

Wouldn't this be something to just practice and see what you need to do to live/kill the boss?

Like TheDan said earlier, he was able to kill Steelation by debuffing the boss and kiting whenever needed, you just need to figure out what to do and when by practicing, and eventually it's gonna be a piece of cake.

Yea surely..it's **** that this happened..really hurts low levels and even high levels as well, but it's not like it's the end of TT farming lol.

---

This was posted by me in the other thread made similar to this..until some fail mod decided to move it (we all know who it is) and NOT listen to us and move it back here like we requested..oh why does that sound familiar..

Figured people need to consider the above ^

Btw lol..I now see that Duke shouts everything now, herc and nixes, baby snow hares LOL! As well as everything from the packs..didn't people request that these messages get turned off entirely? But what happened..the community was completely not listened to, and you guys did the exact opposite..

lol..

You are very right- things get easier with practice but I think the thing most people are complaining about is that its almost impossible for people with average gear.....

I am Dan's cleric... the majority of the time lol Doing Steelation... everyone died but me... I ended up charm tanking it for 3 minutes while I tried to rez and get someone to actually stay alive xD Steelation hits me for almost all my HP which is around 8k and I am packed with Garnet Gems... Imagine an average cleric trying to take those hits

Like I said Dan and I did Arma yesterday, it took us 3 trys to actually finish but I needed a lot to stay alive. I figured out that I needed pdef charms to take the hits and it was hard but we did it.

I guess the point of it all is that- I feel sorry for the players who are actually trying to farm 3-3 for gear and who dont already have it. They will need high levels to farm their gear... and so I guess that gives us something to do...

StormDragoon - Sanctuary wrote: »

LOL, so now that devs are bored and don't know what to put into this game new. They go like we are gonna increase difficulty for TTs -_- Lame.

The reason people play a game as much as you want it to be is for a challenge and gearing up, the desire to progress, if those things are nearly impossible for people already geared then it's just pathetic to even try. Is this crying much: Please, put more gold in the game or something like that??? I wonder if Devs think people don't see this. Because as much as there is a community that puts in money in a constant basis, if they dont have a no non or almost non-cashhoppers in the game to compete with, even they will leave.

So great thinking ahead and planning, seems people that are making the changes into the game have never actually played their own game.

Now 3-3 has to be done with GM gears (when are this coming out, perhaps 20 grand a piece?). Farming gears for lower levels is now just impossible. I can't imagine people at their low 90s and mid 90s farming 3-3s for their own gear.

You are turning the game into a frustration instead of something fun out of it. I hope you realize this before it's too late, everything has a toleration level, newer levels who are not yet being affected by this will see it soon and they won't be able to progress, so no point there.

hi baby b:kiss

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Really the only way to make money is to merchant or cash shop.

Don't worry, they'll find a way to nerf merchanting soon too.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

QQ more

THE FIX
They need to revert the bosses back and change how the drop rate works. They can change this to directly affect the number of people doing damage to the boss vs how well the drop rate is going to turn out.

STIPULATIONS
-People in the squad must all be at the boss and all doing CONSTANT damage, not tag them along and let them hit once (this takes into account for 5 players doing damage 1 cleric)
-There must be at least 4 people in squad or they all get kicked

DROP RATES
Based on people doing constant damage the whole fight
1 person = no drops GTFO out of SQUAD mode
2 people = very minor drop rate but still wont be worth it
3 people = slightly better then 2
4 people = much better then 3 but still about 3/4 current drop rates
5 people = same as current drop rates
6 people = 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 the current drop rates

CONCLUSION
You're welcome GMs I just fixed your problem in 5 minutes better then your developers could in 1 1/2 years and this stops people from farming the isntances AND keeps the players happy. Was that so hard?

StormDragoon - Sanctuary

Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »

hi baby b:kiss

Rawr, my mishu :P Gonna do bh 3-3 now since it's today's bh lol.


Let's see how dark colluseast behaves this time xD


I just saw i only have 8 posts probably 9 now, should pass around here more often >.>

StormDragoon - Sanctuary

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Don't worry, they'll find a way to nerf merchanting soon too.

LOL. Merchant shops only allowed to be open for 10 hours b:victory

RedsRose - Lost City

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ROFL!! Omg, lmfao still laughing b:chuckleb:victory

Yishuin - Sanctuary

dont know it Rose? its a known one. one friend is using it on a forum for like 2 years .

Bartack - Heavens Tear

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

THE FIX
They need to revert the bosses back and change how the drop rate works. They can change this to directly affect the number of people doing damage to the boss vs how well the drop rate is going to turn out.

STIPULATIONS
-People in the squad must all be at the boss and all doing CONSTANT damage, not tag them along and let them hit once (this takes into account for 5 players doing damage 1 cleric)
-There must be at least 4 people in squad or they all get kicked

DROP RATES
Based on people doing constant damage the whole fight
1 person = no drops GTFO out of SQUAD mode
2 people = very minor drop rate but still wont be worth it
3 people = slightly better then 2
4 people = much better then 3 but still about 3/4 current drop rates
5 people = same as current drop rates
6 people = 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 the current drop rates

CONCLUSION
You're welcome GMs I just fixed your problem in 5 minutes better then your developers could in 1 1/2 years and this stops people from farming the isntances AND keeps the players happy. Was that so hard?

Easy there Traz, if you make too much sense the Devs will have you banned for making them look as incompetent/lazy/clueless as they truly seem to be. Remember, there is no freedom of speech or information in China. That's honestly probably a big part of the problem.

Cant wait to see how hard all these changes are going to be when the jones blessing finally disappears...b:shutup

drjiggle

Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »

I figured out that I needed pdef charms to take the hits and it was hard but we did it.

This comment here really sums up the whole problem neatly. I don't know which defense charms you had, but you can break those down into two categories.

1) The ones that can be made with less than level 8 apothecary. Those require chi stones lower than Perfect Stones, which makes them impractical to manufacture in quantity. You either need to buy NPC gear to decompose (ridiculously expensive) or save up the stones from drops (small numbers).

2) The ones that require level 8 (and above) apothecary. Those require a book that is a rare drop found only in FB99 instances. So are we saying that the only way to get your 99 gear now is to first run Seat of Torment and Abaddon for weeks hoping for an apothecary skill book?

Yes, I realize that you can buy the charms or find a friend who can make them for you, but should that really be a prerequisite for successfully running the instance? If I don't have a level 99 friend with level 8 apothecary, I can't even think about doing 3-3? Sounds fun.

Edit: Also keep in mind that it's mostly unrealistic to even reach level 7 apothecary without owning a territory. So, yeah, nice job keeping everything balanced and opening the game up to smaller factions.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »

With this last patch... I almost felt like... instead of giving us new challenges- which requires actual work from the devs... you are just taking a shortcut and making things harder that already exist. Since when does this make sense?

Yeah, I first noticed this with the player backlash against changes in UO. The rule of thumb I came up with then was never make things harder. When you first add something to the game, err on the side of making it too hard. Then gradually make it easier until you think you've got the difficulty right.

The reason you don't start off with it easy and tweak it to make it harder is because players complain more about things becoming harder, while they almost never complain about things being made easier. It also gives a permanent unfair advantage to the people who got to it first. The folks who managed to get their TT90 and TT99 gear in 3-x "easy mode" still have their gear. The up and coming folks who need it now are screwed. Same thing with the helm and boots from the packs. Everyone who got them early are golden. But since PWE apparently decided they're too good and removed them from packs while making them cost 200 mil in ToBLs, anyone else wanting them is screwed.

Yes I am one of the people who farms TT with 5.0s and we make money off it- BUT because of that, prices for gold mats are low and stable, now they will just go up and up

Prices for the gold mats are capped at the cost to make the mat with chips from the mysterious merchant. It's the green mats which could potentially shoot sky-high in price, since their price is completely dictated by supply vs. demand.

drjiggle wrote: »

Last, but not least, I'm going to say again, stop "fixing" things that aren't broken! The problem here is that 5 APS fist BM's (and other interval-based builds) are overpowered with their ability to have permanent 3-sparked attacks. Fix that! Cap attacks per second. Add a cooldown to 3 spark. Fix it how you want, but that's the problem, not one instance here or one instance there that people are farming. All you're doing here is forcing people to move from one easy instance to the next one. And you're making the problem even worse, since it's still the 5 APS BM's who dominate the new "fixed" instances. Sure, it takes them a little longer now, but they still do it twice as fast as anyone else. This is better?

Yeah, I think when people complained that "5 APS characters are farming TT!", what they meant was "5 APS characters are farming TT!". But what PWE heard was "5 APS characters are farming TT!"

I also get the impression that PW-CN has a different pricing and difficulty structure than PWI. From the snippets I've read, rank 8 is a lot easier to achieve, prices are much lower so +10 or even +12 refines are common, etc. If that's the case, it's even more reason to be upset that we're inheriting the changes from PW-CN apparently unmodified. We're getting their level of difficulty, but not as easily able to acquire the tools they have to overcome that difficulty. Unless you already got those tools before the instances were made more difficult.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

THE FIX
They need to revert the bosses back and change how the drop rate works. They can change this to directly affect the number of people doing damage to the boss vs how well the drop rate is going to turn out.

STIPULATIONS
-People in the squad must all be at the boss and all doing CONSTANT damage, not tag them along and let them hit once (this takes into account for 5 players doing damage 1 cleric)
-There must be at least 4 people in squad or they all get kicked

DROP RATES
Based on people doing constant damage the whole fight
1 person = no drops GTFO out of SQUAD mode
2 people = very minor drop rate but still wont be worth it
3 people = slightly better then 2
4 people = much better then 3 but still about 3/4 current drop rates
5 people = same as current drop rates
6 people = 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 the current drop rates

CONCLUSION
You're welcome GMs I just fixed your problem in 5 minutes better then your developers could in 1 1/2 years and this stops people from farming the isntances AND keeps the players happy. Was that so hard?

Well thought response BUT.

/inb4thisisnot5apshateposteventhoughsayingotherwisemakesyoulooksilly

RedsRose - Lost City

Yishuin - Sanctuary wrote: »

dont know it Rose? its a known one. one friend is using it on a forum for like 2 years .

Oh I know it...it was more the usage of it in this case b:chuckle

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I also get the impression that PW-CN has a different pricing and difficulty structure than PWI. From the snippets I've read, rank 8 is a lot easier to achieve, prices are much lower so +10 or even +12 refines are common, etc. If that's the case, it's even more reason to be upset that we're inheriting the changes from PW-CN apparently unmodified. We're getting their level of difficulty, but not as easily able to acquire the tools they have to overcome that difficulty. Unless you already got those tools before the instances were made more difficult.

You are probably correct, but this is the impression I get; Throw event items in packs and give them to the masses, let everyone reach high levels and let them farm all their other end-game gears with 2x drops... make the instances way harder, let the new crop of players try to farm, give up in frustration, but let them see how many other people already have this amazing gear and cash shop to buy packs/tokens/coins so they can chip the gold mats and make their endgame gear before closing the servers and tell everyone to move to their new and exciting game called Forsaken World and laugh all the way to the bank.

Yes, there was considerable sarcasm harmed during the making of my post, but more than a hint of the truth was mixed in to go along with it as well.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Supposed to be:

7x mold, 3 stars, TT80: Use this to farm your TT90

TT90: Use this to farm TT99:

TT99: Use this to farm nirvana


Instead you now need TT99 to farm TT90, and Nirvana to farm TT99.

Tatuaje - Lost City

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Instead you now need TT99 to farm TT90, and Nirvana to farm TT99.

^This is truly how PWI is but alas, they truly could care less.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I also get the impression that PW-CN has a different pricing and difficulty structure than PWI. From the snippets I've read, rank 8 is a lot easier to achieve, prices are much lower so +10 or even +12 refines are common, etc. If that's the case, it's even more reason to be upset that we're inheriting the changes from PW-CN apparently unmodified. We're getting their level of difficulty, but not as easily able to acquire the tools they have to overcome that difficulty. Unless you already got those tools before the instances were made more difficult.

+10 is easier if you buy it with gold and you are "rich". Inflation is huge though, not sure if played on the "right" servers but if so, the prices are sky high. 400m for Lunar weapon.

Mendolin - Sanctuary

drjiggle wrote: »

This comment here really sums up the whole problem neatly. I don't know which defense charms you had, but you can break those down into two categories.

1) The ones that can be made with less than level 8 apothecary. Those require chi stones lower than Perfect Stones, which makes them impractical to manufacture in quantity. You either need to buy NPC gear to decompose (ridiculously expensive) or save up the stones from drops (small numbers).

2) The ones that require level 8 (and above) apothecary. Those require a book that is a rare drop found only in FB99 instances. So are we saying that the only way to get your 99 gear now is to first run Seat of Torment and Abaddon for weeks hoping for an apothecary skill book?

Yes, I realize that you can buy the charms or find a friend who can make them for you, but should that really be a prerequisite for successfully running the instance? If I don't have a level 99 friend with level 8 apothecary, I can't even think about doing 3-3? Sounds fun.

Edit: Also keep in mind that it's mostly unrealistic to even reach level 7 apothecary without owning a territory. So, yeah, nice job keeping everything balanced and opening the game up to smaller factions.

for the record: yes it is the 50% reduction pdef charms which require apoc lvl 8

Evga - Sanctuary

The biggest problem I have with the last few updates is that it makes me wonder about the future of pwi. I'm the sort of player who thinks long term and I spend my time earning coins to afford what I need through merchanting.

And for those who merchant, you would know that the more coins you have set aside to merchant the larger profit you can make as you diversify the items you merchant. For that reason, I've always set aside at least 300 mil to be used to buy stuff that I feel I can sell for a higher price when the time is right.

Currently, I'm not afraid to say, I have about 700-800 mil worth of coins, which is just sitting there circulating to allow me to make more coins. Now, my reasoning for saving so much coins, is there is a future in the game, and making a second 5.0 char will cost a lot, in addition to keeping up with tw cost for my veno. And by no means do I make this much in a short time. It took me months of merchanting to amass this much fortune, all for one thing, the future.

Now, from the looks of pwi, this game will just get more and more ridiculous because of the lack of dev solely for pwi. I'm beginning to question, is there a point in saving for the future? will there be a future to save for? If there isn't I might as well just blow all my coins right now and maybe have some fun, and never come back to another f2p mmorpg, only p2p mmorpg from now onwards. Or quit mmorpg for good, since rl stuff isn't getting any easier.

Btw, games are meant to release stress and allow gamers to have fun. The moment you start making it actually frustrating to play games, I might as well go to work instead of playing games, at least i get paid working.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

TT 3-3 is too hard now. Armageddon killed a guy with warsoul bow, a sin with like...Rank 8 gear and the whole squad. 3-1 Took me 2 clerics ( 17.1k hp ) , Apothecary, and a Genie with 100 strength and solid shield to stay alive vs. GBA boss. I think they implemented that you can buy hypers cheaper by the boutique sell and making them affordable through tokens of luck, but I guess they forgot to put TT mats in the boutique too. Anything to make money, anything, that's the new business ethics. I don't though, not sure the forums is a good place to complain, mail letters through irl mail and submit tickets is what I do though when something, this enormous is broken. I hate to tell the upcoming 90s that they will never get their gear without dishing out some serious coin too, but that's how it will be for them.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I hate to tell the upcoming 90s that they will never get their gear without dishing out some serious coin too, but that's how it will be for them.

I've been telling that to the DD classes for quite a while already. Getting a fair-share squad on Sanct for TTs is almost impossible, even if you are in a big faction.

RedsRose - Lost City

@ Dsholder:


Seems to me the servers would revert back to lvl 90's with hh80/3*/molders and +2-3 refines.

Ahhh memories....b:embarrassb:sweat

TheDan - Sanctuary

I'm all for challenge, but the rewards haven't been tweaked accordingly to make the charm **** worth it. Even for coin farmers such as myself; I now need a full squad instead of duo-ing, need to have a charm equipped, and no more helping pick up squads from my faction do their chrono/farm their gears.

I don't see why the Devs fix what isn't broken. They pretty much made HH3-3 un-farmable for people who need the gears. What they SHOULD have done is made an HH3-4 mode or something if they wanted challenge for people who ARLEADY HAVE their gears, but make the rewards actually worth it. Pretty much now.... HH3-3 is for 5APS squads only, because they can brute force it with bloodpaint. Why didn't they just leave HH3-3 alone... it's required for Chrono and the point of farming your gear is to save money. Now you can't save money unless you're in a 5APS squad or cash shop.

5APS squads aren't gonna care as much, but if the 5APS squads find a different source that's more profitable.... and HH3-3 is no longer farmed on the server... where are the people who actually need their gear gonna buy it from? You can chip the gold mats, but the green mats you can't.