Confirm or Deny This Patch made Veno kinda got screwed in TT

Sherufaniru - Raging Tide

NOTE: This not a Topic to put fear into people that Veno are useless or whatever they think by misreading the topic title.


Ok now that out of the way can any experience Veno post their experience about soloing TT3-x now? and how the Patch effected them?

Since hearing from the normal forums I see ouch when it comes to those bossesb:shocked

Also any one found ways of working around these TT updates? much info for all of us the better I see b:thanks

Queenofpower - Dreamweaver

Purge needed in 3-3 now i heard.

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver

I just finished a 3-1 solo run. The monsters and the bosses were no problem, until I got to the beast. I think they made beast much harder now on purpose to stop people from farming for the armors or so. It did random aggro on me and that was the only thing I saw before it 2 shotted me b:chuckle

SlashSin - Lost City

This is actually really upsetting... I just started a veno a few weeks ago so I could farm 3-1. Curses to the Devs for foiling my money-making schemes b:cry

Sherufaniru - Raging Tide

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I just finished a 3-1 solo run. The monsters and the bosses were no problem, until I got to the beast. I think they made beast much harder now on purpose to stop people from farming for the armors or so. It did random aggro on me and that was the only thing I saw before it 2 shotted me b:chuckle

NOOOOOOO b:cry

I agree with the above post that what my veno was for making the coins seriously I still believe a way around this.b:sad

Jamie_Rebecc - Dreamweaver

The GBA boss debuffs with a seal now. It also random aggros. Now its twice as hard. He just random aggroed me and then seal/debuffed me and then hit me again for 5.5k then hit our cleric for 9k. If you want to do this boss now, I suggest 2 clerics and... kill it quick and have good pdef and magic resistance. x.x b:surrender My poor herc.

Vixter - Harshlands

but all other bosses are doable? 1st boss? Illusion Nemen (sacred mother orb), Deathflow (sorceress's hand), big headed timed boss? are those still do-able solo-squad mode?

tweakz

Economy - non existent issue people who fail qq about.

Pay for cash shop pets only to have them devalued by changes to TT -reason to not spend cash on game.

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear

3-1 (and the others) are a waste of time anyways. I would think you'd get what you needed in less time if you just did multiple runs with a fast squad.

Manakel - Dreamweaver

Vixter - Harshlands wrote: »

but all other bosses are doable? 1st boss? Illusion Nemen (sacred mother orb), Deathflow (sorceress's hand), big headed timed boss? are those still do-able solo-squad mode?

Djin (3 mins boss as you said) has never been soloable by a single herc veno anyways. This boss is entirely based on DDs. Only Colluseast and Steellation have been nerfed, so Nemen, Coredash and Deathflow aren't affefted by the changes and still are soloable with herc.

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver

Vixter - Harshlands wrote: »

but all other bosses are doable? 1st boss? Illusion Nemen (sacred mother orb), Deathflow (sorceress's hand), big headed timed boss? are those still do-able solo-squad mode?

Big head? O.o I always thought that "big" thing was a huge jar on Djin's back.

But yeah, all other bosses are fine. I've give up on 3-1 :P I'll just go back when I run out of OHT mats.

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver

Manakel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Djin (3 mins boss as you said) has never been soloable by a single herc veno anyways. This boss is entirely based on DDs. Only Colluseast and Steellation have been nerfed, so Nemen, Coredash and Deathflow aren't affefted by the changes and still are soloable with herc.

If I had a Scorpion/Dark Wanderer with Claw, I'm fairly certain I could solo Djinn in 3-1. Though I'm not entirely certain. I can get him down by about 2/3rds in 3 minutes with my herc, but I also realize his defense goes up as time passes.

Manakel - Dreamweaver

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If I had a Scorpion/Dark Wanderer with Claw, I'm fairly certain I could solo Djinn in 3-1. Though I'm not entirely certain. I can get him down by about 2/3rds in 3 minutes with my herc, but I also realize his defense goes up as time passes.

At you lvl and with this kind of pet, you have your chances indeed
Btw, once, I had taken my hubby's veno with me on a 3-1 (he was lvl 81 and me lvl 90 at that time) and we decided to try Djin. We got his hp down to 1/4 before dying b:surrender Thats was close I think that in a few lvls I should maybe able to solo it too. Depends ont he build and skills too. That time I was always amp'ing asap, demon sparking a lot (with the help of Cloud Eruption), using demon venomous (which helped both of us DDing a lot as it decreases wood resistance by 30%), and my hubby was using his kowlin set on "Howl" (I was stupidly using my herc -.- maybe we could have succeeded if I had had a scorpion or something similar). Oh, also I'm pure mag and had around 426 mag at that time, and a quite a lot of chan gear.

With this kind of things, even without a 2nd DD you can succeed at lvl 97

sleepcat

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm fairly certain I could solo Djinn in 3-1. Though I'm not entirely certain.

Funny sentence. Just had to say it. b:avoid

rinuruc

sleepcat wrote: »

Funny sentence. Just had to say it. b:avoid

fairly though not entirely,...
fairly means like above 50%
not entirely means not above 90%,...

so he/she means about 70% sure he/she is able to solo it,...
its not a contradiction ;-)

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Manakel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Btw, once, I had taken my hubby's veno with me on a 3-1 (he was lvl 81 and me lvl 90 at that time) and we decided to try Djin. We got his hp down to 1/4 before dying b:surrender Thats was close I think that in a few lvls I should maybe able to solo it too. Depends ont he build and skills too. That time I was always amp'ing asap, demon sparking a lot (with the help of Cloud Eruption), using demon venomous (which helped both of us DDing a lot as it decreases wood resistance by 30%), and my hubby was using his kowlin set on "Howl" (I was stupidly using my herc -.- maybe we could have succeeded if I had had a scorpion or something similar). Oh, also I'm pure mag and had around 426 mag at that time, and a quite a lot of chan gear.

With this kind of things, even without a 2nd DD you can succeed at lvl 97

Getting him down to 1/4 is not "close". He gets a progressively more powerful defense buff every minute. So getting him down to 25% probably means you've only achieved about 50% the DPS needed to kill him.

The key to killing him is to front-load your attacks. The moment you start attacking him, you want to stack every possible debuff and damage add you can onto him. Ironwood (for the pets and melee), Amp, Demon venomous if you've got it, and Extreme Poison from a genie. Then Myriad hopefully for armor/mind break. Due to the cooldown timers, if you have two venos, the second should wait 10 seconds after your Myriad to apply hers, and be ready to reapply Amp as soon as the first wears off to fill in the gap. Pour on everything you've got in this first minute, after you've got all the debuffs and damage adds stacked on him. Get a second person with Extreme Poison to put theirs on the moment yours wears off too - try to alternate to keep it on him all the time during that first minute.

The only exception is sparks. Don't use them at the start. He gives you a spark-like buff during the first minute of the fight. It's only as good as about a double-spark eruption, but it's free and it lasts a full minute. If you triple spark at the beginning of the fight, it overwrites his buff and after 15 seconds you'll be doing unsparked damage. 15 sec triple sparked + 42 sec unsparked = less damage than 60 sec with his buff. The moment you see the buffs he gave you disappear, then you want to use your triple spark (he says something after each minute, so you can watch for that too). Your triple spark damage will be in the second minute when he has some defensive buffs, but it's better than wasting it in the first minute.

Ever since I've explained this to my guild, our groups of 3-4 have always killed him in less than 60 seconds. Our record is 36 sec with a group of 4 (3 veno pets). With 2 people (only 1 veno) I've managed it in 2 min 23 sec. It should be possible with two venos in their low- to mid-90s due to pets doing full damage on [?] bosses. You just have to spend your time emphasizing your pet's damage instead of your own. Give priority to Ironwood, armor break, and damage amps; don't do what I've seen some people do and ignore Ironwood to try to save chi so they can spark again as they try to cast as many damage spells as they can.

The main problem trying it solo is that during that crucial first minute, you're wasting a lot of time applying debuffs rather than doing damage, and you cannot keep the debuffs on 100% of the time.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

I did beast in 3-1 with 2 other herc venos. We managed to get his HP a lil over half way down before squad wiping. We each took turns tanking and kiting the boss from his debuffs. (pulled him out to the big room and did that there). When one herc died because of the debuff, the next one would go in and catch it. This seemed to work for a little bit, but eventually the random aggro got the best of us. I.e, instead of going after the next herc, the boss soon came after us, even if we were just healing or running away.

tweakz

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

3-1 (and the others) are a waste of time anyways. I would think you'd get what you needed in less time if you just did multiple runs with a fast squad.

I can't imagine TT's being worth soloing, so I'd agree with the first part. My time tends to be worth more than other players. When I did solo TT when it was profitable, I could get about 5x the loot in almost the same amount of time (figure in setup squad, unexpected breaks, dividing loot, miss-communications, etc). Now it seems more profitable to make coin other ways and buy or fab the mats.

Venos need some time to learn how to work with squads. For example, I didn't know what Heaven's Flame did until I was passed Lv.100 (why it's worth it to send chi to bms). If this change gets them to solo less and squad more it could help them especially in these high levels.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

I can't imagine TT's being worth soloing, so I'd agree with the first part. My time tends to be worth more than other players. When I did solo TT when it was profitable, I could get about 5x the loot in almost the same amount of time (figure in setup squad, unexpected breaks, dividing loot, miss-communications, etc). Now it seems more profitable to make coin other ways and buy or fab the mats.

Venos need some time to learn how to work with squads. For example, I didn't know what Heaven's Flame did until I was passed Lv.100 (why it's worth it to send chi to bms). If this change gets them to solo less and squad more it could help them especially in these high levels.

I agree, soloing TTs isnt really worth the time. Its get boring being in there alone, and what you do alone, you could do faster with a trustworthy squad. When i do TTs i always like to have at least 1 or preferably 2 other ppl with me. (rather another veno, cleric. or bm). The only time, i really go alone is when its the low lvl TTs, and im gathering mats for my alt in less than 20 mins.

kenlee

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The only exception is sparks. Don't use them at the start. He gives you a spark-like buff during the first minute of the fight. It's only as good as about a double-spark eruption, but it's free and it lasts a full minute. If you triple spark at the beginning of the fight, it overwrites his buff and after 15 seconds you'll be doing unsparked damage. 15 sec triple sparked + 42 sec unsparked = less damage than 60 sec with his buff. The moment you see the buffs he gave you disappear, then you want to use your triple spark (he says something after each minute, so you can watch for that too). Your triple spark damage will be in the second minute when he has some defensive buffs, but it's better than wasting it in the first minute.

actually you can spark out of the room and when you enter you gain full chi back and ready to use it after those 15 sec. so unless he overwrites your buffs when you enter sparked you actually have 30 sec. i didnt even bother looking at stats since usually when we killed this boss it was under 15 sec i think

Solandri - Heavens Tear

kenlee wrote: »

actually you can spark out of the room and when you enter you gain full chi back and ready to use it after those 15 sec. so unless he overwrites your buffs when you enter sparked you actually have 30 sec.

At the level you're doing this, your best bang for the chi buck is triple spark. And yes the buff he gives you overwrites it. All the buffs and debuffs in this game seem to be of two types: Any of one can overwrite another (e.g. Ironwood, Myriad), or cannot be overwritten even by itself (cleric mdef buff).

If I remember right, he doesn't give you any chi. That's a misconception started by people misunderstanding when others told them "he gives you a spark at the start of the fight". What that meant was "he gives you a spark buff," which they misinterpreted as "he gives you a spark's worth of chi".

tweakz

Manakel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Djin (3 mins boss as you said) has never been soloable by a single herc veno anyways. This boss is entirely based on DDs.

What about a -ch pure mag scorp veno with claw and howl and a genie with -55% pdef debuff stacked with Sage -40%? Haven't tried it, but pretty sure I could.

Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

At the level you're doing this, your best bang for the chi buck is triple spark. And yes the buff he gives you overwrites it. All the buffs and debuffs in this game seem to be of two types: Any of one can overwrite another (e.g. Ironwood, Myriad), or cannot be overwritten even by itself (cleric mdef buff).

If I remember right, he doesn't give you any chi. That's a misconception started by people misunderstanding when others told them "he gives you a spark at the start of the fight". What that meant was "he gives you a spark buff," which they misinterpreted as "he gives you a spark's worth of chi".

Every time I aggro Djin while I am in his room, I automatically get 3 sparks, plus the attack buff he gives you. I've noticed it happening regardless of how much chi I start with. Even starting at zero, whenever the boss is aggroed for the first time while I am in the room, I am given full chi.

kenlee

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

At the level you're doing this, your best bang for the chi buck is triple spark. And yes the buff he gives you overwrites it. All the buffs and debuffs in this game seem to be of two types: Any of one can overwrite another (e.g. Ironwood, Myriad), or cannot be overwritten even by itself (cleric mdef buff).

If I remember right, he doesn't give you any chi. That's a misconception started by people misunderstanding when others told them "he gives you a spark at the start of the fight". What that meant was "he gives you a spark buff," which they misinterpreted as "he gives you a spark's worth of chi".

no, i usually did solo dark colluseast, deathflow and illusion nemen before djin because you can hit djing from those 2 rooms and he gives you 399 chi then reset if you are not really near the wall. i usually use that chi to continuously spark and never had to use nature grace/metabolic boost. thats why when it finally comes the time to kill him everyone spark before enter his room because once the fight started it gives you 399 (whatever is missing) chi back

tweakz

kenlee wrote: »

no, i usually did solo dark colluseast, deathflow and illusion nemen before djin because you can hit djing from those 2 rooms and he gives you 399 chi then reset if you are not really near the wall. i usually use that chi to continuously spark and never had to use nature grace/metabolic boost. thats why when it finally comes the time to kill him everyone spark before enter his room because once the fight started it gives you 399 (whatever is missing) chi back

Sounds like glitch abuse.

MarimoSuki - Dreamweaver

I'm very interested about this being that I made a venomancer just for this.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

kenlee wrote: »

when it finally comes the time to kill him everyone spark before enter his room because once the fight started it gives you 399 (whatever is missing) chi back

Interesting. I distinctly remember testing this by going in without full chi, and didn't get anything. It was with a group though, so maybe there's an issue with timing, or maybe only the first person to enter gets it? More testing needed...

Zylphia_ - Heavens Tear

MarimoSuki - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm very interested about this being that I made a venomancer just for this.

lol yeah... it was the first reason I really even bothered getting a herc myself.

I have to say now though, that soloing TT isn't really worth it. Maybe for lower TT where there's a better guarantee of getting mats people need but 3-x are a waste of time now.

What bothers me more than the new update to the 3-X is more that the instances reset in four hours lol. I used to save a lot of time/money by saving my 3-2s every week so I could get my mats for my arm bracers since the boss is fairly easy to kill just has a bad drop rate like everything else in the 3-Xs. lol Thankfully I got my mats before the update.

Oh well.

If you're in it for the money, I'd suggest leveling your current character to 100 and running nirvana.. since it makes a significantly larger amount a money than soloing TT and waiting for people to buy your mats. Speaking from experience... or if you purely need the TT mats you're best off just running TTs with squads and subbing them so you get the better drop pick.

BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver

I was wondering if anyone knows how long it takes for boss to go back to tanker when he starts his random aggro. b:question

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver

BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I was wondering if anyone knows how long it takes for boss to go back to tanker when he starts his random aggro. b:question

After he kills the person he randomly aggros? no idea b:cry

kenlee

tweakz wrote: »

Sounds like glitch abuse.

the thing is... he doesnt live his room to go in the near rooms but he does hit with a range attack if you are close to wall. the bad part is, after he reset usually goes to the other side of the room and have to wait him to come your side (in range)

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Interesting. I distinctly remember testing this by going in without full chi, and didn't get anything. It was with a group though, so maybe there's an issue with timing, or maybe only the first person to enter gets it? More testing needed...

yes, need to enter all in the same time. if its aggroed and you are not in the room you wont get chi. cant say for sure but from all my experiences killing him only one time didnt get chi so i figured it was because i was in the hole and not in the room when the others already started hitting him