What should be done to being the gold markets "back to earth"

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

The game was already going to it's death when they brought it here. They just left it here and decided to see if they managed to get anything out of it. They did, milked it out and that's about it.

Well, at the rate PWI had been going before the introduction of packs, the game would still be doing much better than it is now. It was actually f2p and the p2w factor hadn't really been established.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

The difference between Coral and the other packs are that Best Luck are 0.7% for Coral and 1.7% all other types of Packs. Other than that the odds are pretty much the same, but that 1% difference in Best Luck Tokens is a huge difference.

I thought the difference between the Anniversary/Tiger packs from the Coral packs were that you would get regular tokens 97% of the time instead of 98%.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is why a Scroll of Tome selling for 75 million when Packs first came out was considered a massive sum of money and a rip-off price, but now that so many Best Luck Tokens have flooded millions into the overall coin supply a Scroll of Tome is practically a steal at double that price because 75 million just isn't worth what it used to be.

Pretty sure the price jumped up when they introduced Script of Fate, which would take 3 to make a lvl 6 tome as opposed to Scroll which is lvl 7.

Scroll of Tome at 100m was just an absolute bargain and at 200m still is. Script of fate for under 60m is a bargain as well, considering how much tomes actually cost to make from tokens and fragments.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I thought the difference between the Anniversary/Tiger packs from the Coral packs were that you would get regular tokens 97% of the time instead of 98%.

You both are correct. Normally it's 97% and 1.72%, with coral packs it was 98% and 0.72% iirc.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Recap: taking the notes out of the packs won't help. Taking the packs out of the cs will. However; I'm not complaining about either one really.

Leaving the packs in without big notes would help very much. All other things in the packs keep going down or at least stay in the same price range when they become more and more common. Or actually, that would happen if there wasn't so much coin flooding in to the economy.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear

Removing the 10 mil coins notes would certainly add something, yet it is too little, too late. Given that they have been there for a while, removing them would bring the same as the DQ nerfing.
Besides, the fluctuation rates of gold and the market price of many goods depend on many factors, some of them being very debatable. It generally has a root in items you can set a benchmark to, just like those notes or the way you can get those items (being able to get wines from tokens is an example). It would also depend on demand and offer and the boutique releases.

I feel that managment tries to correct this, and more and more these days. But I am not confident about the effectiveness of this set of measures. It is too little too late for a true impact, and given that you have a huge influx of fresh money (thanks to created currency from packs), I do believe that stabilizing the game economy is a rather impossible goal to achieve.

If you remove a way to get coins or gimp it, you only get an uproar. If you want to input a coin sink, it needs to be a focused on the long-term, pleasant to all but more importantly effective.

Now would people gaining tokens of luck want to lower the value of their earnings? No, because they would tell you they spent real money for them (or indirectly purchased them). If they only want coins and not stuff you can trade tokens for... Yet, the higher ones did not plan that maybe the results would be like what we are going through now. Isn't it a difficult problem to solve?

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Keep in mind, though, that a piece of high-end gear adds 0 coins to the economy. If it sells for 100 million, that 100 million just moves from the buyer's pocket to the seller's pocket. The total amount of coins remains the same.

This is why a Scroll of Tome selling for 75 million when Packs first came out was considered a massive sum of money and a rip-off price, but now that so many Best Luck Tokens have flooded millions into the overall coin supply a Scroll of Tome is practically a steal at double that price because 75 million just isn't worth what it used to be.

Before the packs, the amount of gold being purchased was at least 100% LESS than after the packs came out. Since the items mentioned can only be bought via coins and not through cash shop (unless you get lucky) people have been buying gold just to sell for the sake of obtaining said items. This generates extra coin into the market that wasn't there before. Even people who wasn't cash shoppers before became csers to sell gold so they could have these items. So yes, in essence these items have generated coin, not just went from one hand to another.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

You both are correct. Normally it's 97% and 1.72%, with coral packs it was 98% and 0.72% iirc.



Leaving the packs in without big notes would help very much. All other things in the packs keep going down or at least stay in the same price range when they become more and more common. Or actually, that would happen if there wasn't so much coin flooding in to the economy.

Please read above.

Elednor - Harshlands

Glad to see this has sparked some interesting dicussion.

I will point out tho it would be great to remove the packs completely it wont happen. I dont think there is much point in asking for it. We can all dream tho.

I simply suggest they remove the 10mil notes, having a item that creates the same ammount of coin as holding a land in TW with no coins leaving the server in its making is crazy. If holding a TW land is making the gold go up these notes are just as bad if not worse.

The Nien event, tho alot of fun, was another problem in the rising markets, no where near as bad as the 10mil notes but it still produced coin from no where from extacy/excitement cards, these cards in cube are fine because of the low odds of getting them, but the high chances in the nien event did some damage, im glad to see the new event linked with the new event boutique so will not pump coin into the server from no where.

The other part i suggest is a large coin sink event, something that will be profitable for a few people but will take more coins out of the server than it puts in. I would suggest something like a jolly old jones, perhaps with only the 100k a chest option. The items it creates are only worth money amoungst players, they cant be sold to a NPC to create money from no where.

Things like repair bills and teleporting take money out of the server but slowly, but we need something on a bigger scale.

Im suggesting this as if as they say PWI commited in the lowering of the market the above idea's would help alot. They are simple to do, and work along the same lines as the changes they have already made.

X_Diogenes_x - Sanctuary

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Before the packs, the amount of gold being purchased was at least 100% LESS than after the packs came out. Since the items mentioned can only be bought via coins and not through cash shop (unless you get lucky) people have been buying gold just to sell for the sake of obtaining said items. This generates extra coin into the market that wasn't there before. Even people who wasn't cash shoppers before became csers to sell gold so they could have these items. So yes, in essence these items have generated coin, not just went from one hand to another.

Unless I've misunderstood what you're trying to say here, this is really exactly the same as what Warren said in the post you quoted. Selling gold in the AH doesn't generate coin, it just passes it from one person to the other.

The coin the buyer used to obtain the gold from the seller had to come from somewhere though. It isn't an unreasonable example to say Player A had a few million coins saved when packs were released, spent all those coins buying packs from a catshop (packs that someone had purchased by charging zen for the purpose of reselling) and got two ToBL out of them, leaving him at a profit after trading them in for 10mill. Player B wants coin for an event item, charges zen, puts some gold up in AH, and Player A spends 10mill on gold, instead of the few million he started with.

Since the items mentioned can only be bought via coins and not through cash shop (unless you get lucky)

Well you can buy coin in the boutique. You can just buy a bunch of packs, get some ToBL from them and trade them in to buy the item you really want from another player. In this case there would've been no AH gold trading, just one person charging zen, buying packs and creating coin with ToBL.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

X_Diogenes_x - Sanctuary wrote: »

Unless I've misunderstood what you're trying to say here, this is really exactly the same as what Warren said in the post you quoted. Selling gold in the AH doesn't generate coin, it just passes it from one person to the other.

The coin the buyer used to obtain the gold from the seller had to come from somewhere though. It isn't an unreasonable example to say Player A had a few million coins saved when packs were released, spent all those coins buying packs from a catshop (packs that someone had purchased by charging zen for the purpose of reselling) and got two ToBL out of them, leaving him at a profit after trading them in for 10mill. Player B wants coin for an event item, charges zen, puts some gold up in AH, and Player A spends 10mill on gold, instead of the few million he started with.



Well you can buy coin in the boutique. You can just buy a bunch of packs, get some ToBL from them and trade them in to buy the item you really want from another player. In this case there would've been no AH gold trading, just one person charging zen, buying packs and creating coin with ToBL.

k, I get what you're saying. The person buying the gold already had said generated coins.

Now I'm caught up. However; I still believe that all of the packs have always been the reason for the higher gold spikes. Regardless of what is in them.

People like to gamble, they like that chance they may be the lucky one. This is what makes them so popular.

I honestly think they need to stop the gold trading totally, and make every item in game sellable. People would then be forced to barter and trade rather than setting a price for gold. I think that would make a drastic change in the game, although it would be one ppl won't like.

Elednor - Harshlands

Allow me to explain my logic behind this idea, if your not interested just skip the below wall-o-text

When a server first launches there are no coins on it. As players kill mobs and they drop coins and items that are sold to NPC's (gear, DQ etc) the ammount of coin on the server rise's. If anyone has been around at the begining of a server you would know that it takes alot of effort to lvl a faction to level 2 (500k) its a effort for the whole faction to attempt to raise that coin. Gold at this point is "cheap" like 50k, but 50k to a low level on a new server is alot of money.

Now the number of the coins is kept control of with repair bills, tele fee's, etc which take coins out of the game. It always rises but these things keep it from shooting up too fast.

Players level up and their drops are worth more and they need to spend more so gold price starts to rise slowly. This is the first example of the coin coming from no where pushing up the gold prices. It has also been dealt with recently with the drop in DQ prices.

Then factions start to take land, the pay out from these lands up's the number of coins on the server alot, players in the guilds with land have more money and gold rises to around 100k as more land is taken. It becomes stable at 100k as there isnt enough coin on the server for an average player to afford it any higher. This is the second example of gold coming from no where pushing up gold prices. It has been dealt with in the recent patch reducing the income from lands by 85-90%

Then we have the perfect hammers and the chests of coins. These push gold up to 200k slowly, the first players to get them spend 500k (1 gold at 500k) and get 1mil, then they spend 1.1mil (as gold has slightly risen) and get 2mil, the number of coins on the server rises and the gold rises aswell, once the gold hits 200k its no longer profitable to do this so again it levels out slightly higher than 200k.

Then we have the packs. These create the best luck tokens, these can be traded for 10mil each. The other items available from the packs do not "create money" from no where. They are only worth money to another player. So if packs had been released without the best luck tokens being tradable for 10million coins these other items would have been worth less coins as there would be fewer coins on the server. It is all relative tho, lets say a warsol helm is worth 20mil (it is on harshlands), if the packs had not injected so much money into the server from nowhere it might be worth only 10mil, but that 10mil would have been alot of money on the server without the influx of coins, its like 100k is a huge ammount of money on a brand new server, but on a server today its very little. (The above is a little hard to understand and i may not have worded it correctly, il edit if i think of a better way of explaining it).

What i am saying is if a server has few coins its impossible for people to buy gold at these current prices and they will fall or people wont be able to sell thier gold, this is PWI's logic and mine aswell.

I suggest they remove the 10mil notes and add a big coin sink event, or perhaps a couple of them to really get the coins off the server so people can see the results of this. It would be a good thing to lower gold prices down to 200-250k which is more than possible if the gold coming from 10mil notes is removed and coins removed from the server with an event.

Hope this is understandable, off to work now but il check back to this thread later

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Lvl 7 tomes are one of the things you actually can't craft. You need a Scroll of Tome to manufacture one. You can craft lvl 6 tomes though. The other would be the Wing Trophy and Wing Trophy Lunar Glade. The mechanics to craft them hadn't yet been implemented when they were first put in packs, but you'll be able to farm them eventually.

Warsong Badge, Cube Neck, Championship Scroll, event helm/boots.... they're all obtainable in game and a number of people have farmed most of these items without spending too much effort, though it does take a bit of time and patience.

One of the reasons why this game is so horrible now is because of people with attitudes like you. If you can't have instant gratification, it's not worth your time and effort... who cares about long term goals when you can 'win' this game in 4 months cash shopping to 100. Game over... well not really. This used to be a game designed so you could have long term goals, not just at 100, but at lower levels as well. The instant gratification crowd is what pretty much ruined it.

So you're not willing to spend a couple hours a couple times a week to farm something that may take months for you to get. Put it in packs and you're golden.

Really, what's the point to even play if you don't even have to do anything to get what you want except open some packs or charge some money?

There you go again.

In order to make your point, you take a message that says "I value my time, and I don't mind exchanging money for man-hours for some things that make the game more enjoyable for me" and pronounced that the poster is a Lazy, shiftless bastage who wants everything handed to them on a silver platter, and ruined the game for *you*, as well.

Both of you have valid points. It's not necessary to over exaggerate and put words into others mouths for people to understand your opinions.

Unless your aim is to find a random person in the forums and burn them to the ground, for your own amusement.

Then you've accomplished what you set out to do.

RedMenace

\wants packs that the ony prize other than tokes, is a free extra pack
\\it's the prizes, not the packs - tokens are handy

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Lvl 7 tomes are one of the things you actually can't craft. You need a Scroll of Tome to manufacture one. You can craft lvl 6 tomes though. The other would be the Wing Trophy and Wing Trophy Lunar Glade. The mechanics to craft them hadn't yet been implemented when they were first put in packs, but you'll be able to farm them eventually.

Warsong Badge, Cube Neck, Championship Scroll, event helm/boots.... they're all obtainable in game and a number of people have farmed most of these items without spending too much effort, though it does take a bit of time and patience.

One of the reasons why this game is so horrible now is because of people with attitudes like you. If you can't have instant gratification, it's not worth your time and effort... who cares about long term goals when you can 'win' this game in 4 months cash shopping to 100. Game over... well not really. This used to be a game designed so you could have long term goals, not just at 100, but at lower levels as well. The instant gratification crowd is what pretty much ruined it.

So you're not willing to spend a couple hours a couple times a week to farm something that may take months for you to get. Put it in packs and you're golden.

Really, what's the point to even play if you don't even have to do anything to get what you want except open some packs or charge some money?

From what I understand warsong is bugged and you're unable to farm the belts.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There you go again.

In order to make your point, you take a message that says "I value my time, and I don't mind exchanging money for man-hours for some things that make the game more enjoyable for me" and pronounced that the poster is a Lazy, shiftless bastage who wants everything handed to them on a silver platter, and ruined the game for *you*, as well.

Both of you have valid points. It's not necessary to over exaggerate and put words into others mouths for people to understand your opinions.

Unless your aim is to find a random person in the forums and burn them to the ground, for your own amusement.

Then you've accomplished what you set out to do.

RedMenace

\wants packs that the ony prize other than tokes, is a free extra pack
\\it's the prizes, not the packs - tokens are handy

I've always liked the way you post. I rather enjoy it. I agree with your last 2 things.

Elednor - Harshlands wrote: »

Allow me to explain my logic behind this idea, if your not interested just skip the below wall-o-text

When a server first launches there are no coins on it. As players kill mobs and they drop coins and items that are sold to NPC's (gear, DQ etc) the ammount of coin on the server rise's. If anyone has been around at the begining of a server you would know that it takes alot of effort to lvl a faction to level 2 (500k) its a effort for the whole faction to attempt to raise that coin. Gold at this point is "cheap" like 50k, but 50k to a low level on a new server is alot of money.

Now the number of the coins is kept control of with repair bills, tele fee's, etc which take coins out of the game. It always rises but these things keep it from shooting up too fast.

Players level up and their drops are worth more and they need to spend more so gold price starts to rise slowly. This is the first example of the coin coming from no where pushing up the gold prices. It has also been dealt with recently with the drop in DQ prices.

Then factions start to take land, the pay out from these lands up's the number of coins on the server alot, players in the guilds with land have more money and gold rises to around 100k as more land is taken. It becomes stable at 100k as there isnt enough coin on the server for an average player to afford it any higher. This is the second example of gold coming from no where pushing up gold prices. It has been dealt with in the recent patch reducing the income from lands by 85-90%

Then we have the perfect hammers and the chests of coins. These push gold up to 200k slowly, the first players to get them spend 500k (1 gold at 500k) and get 1mil, then they spend 1.1mil (as gold has slightly risen) and get 2mil, the number of coins on the server rises and the gold rises aswell, once the gold hits 200k its no longer profitable to do this so again it levels out slightly higher than 200k.

Then we have the packs. These create the best luck tokens, these can be traded for 10mil each. The other items available from the packs do not "create money" from no where. They are only worth money to another player. So if packs had been released without the best luck tokens being tradable for 10million coins these other items would have been worth less coins as there would be fewer coins on the server. It is all relative tho, lets say a warsol helm is worth 20mil (it is on harshlands), if the packs had not injected so much money into the server from nowhere it might be worth only 10mil, but that 10mil would have been alot of money on the server without the influx of coins, its like 100k is a huge ammount of money on a brand new server, but on a server today its very little. (The above is a little hard to understand and i may not have worded it correctly, il edit if i think of a better way of explaining it).

What i am saying is if a server has few coins its impossible for people to buy gold at these current prices and they will fall or people wont be able to sell thier gold, this is PWI's logic and mine aswell.

I suggest they remove the 10mil notes and add a big coin sink event, or perhaps a couple of them to really get the coins off the server so people can see the results of this. It would be a good thing to lower gold prices down to 200-250k which is more than possible if the gold coming from 10mil notes is removed and coins removed from the server with an event.

Hope this is understandable, off to work now but il check back to this thread later

It is understandable, but for people who do not cash shop they have no where near these kind of coins to just throw around.

I agree, maybe take the 10 mil note out and give out 10 free packs instead

Either way, its a mess; but if you don't cash shop or tw.. other than being broke you are really unaffected.

Kephras - Heavens Tear

Having caught up on this thread, it still mystifies me how some people are missing one basic principle:

The only reward generating actual coin is the 10mil Bank Note

It's been stated over and over in this thread now, and yet it's not seeming to sink in. Without the Notes from Best Luck tokens, there is virtually no coin generated by packs. The cost of [X] event gear or [Y] reward are incidental, and based on the amount of coin available - Warren pointed that out on the previous page.

It doesn't matter how many coin-sinks the game gets, if the influx of coin still massively outweighs it. The first step in fixing the flood is turning off the tap, so to speak.

Elednor - Harshlands

Moving the thread to a forum section with hardly any people....hopefully whoever moved it passed on the ideas expressed in this thread =/ oh well, i suppose nothing will get done, its a shame, soon the only people to be able to buy gold from the auction house will be those who are selling it/ making money from these 10mil notes, aka the cash shoppers who already buy zhen, kinda makes the whole gold - coin exchange pointless dont ya think? As well as the changes to TW? And the DQ price changes? And any coin sink events which wont be able to make an impact against these money spawning items...

I still hope that the TW changes will lower the gold market, but i dont think alone it will have enough impact. I suppose we will see.