Does PvP really change much for a Wiz at 90+? Because at 80, it's still kinda iffy.

TangLung - Lost City

I suppose this changes at lvl 90+, but so far... it's not leaving me too impressed.

I have lvl 80 Wiz, pure mag (400, exactly), and a +4 HH80 mag attack sharded weapon.... AND the Jones' Blessing. My full HH80 gear is decently up to par, with all pieces +3 or more, mostly all with 3 or 4 sockets of HP shards.

That said, I pack around 14-15k a pop, more or less depending on elemental affinities. In this sense, PvE is pretty simple; hard hits, a little kiting, and mobs are out quick.

But insofar as PvP is concerned... Houston, we have a problem.

Most AA geared caster classes don't take the massive damage you'd expect from a pure mag 80 Wiz, because of the elemental defence in their gear. I get my **** rolled and handed back over to me on a paper plate by an EP up to 10 levels lower than me; plume shot / razor feather phys attacks... 'nuff said.

PvP vs. other wizzies is a fairly even draw, depending on FoW working, sutra, and spell damage per hit being on the higher end of the spectrum.

LA EP and Wiz are easy enough to take out, due to lower resistances, and lower HP overall (as compared to a Sin or Archer wearing typical LA)... and because they hit less hard.

HA can be easy enough, because of the low elemental defence associated with HA. But a good BM will have HP well built up, and use Alter Marrow Magical. Against a Barb, I sign my resignation papers before you, and quit.

If I can hit a BM before he hits me, it's usually no contest... also because of the range advantage. LA are easy as well, generally.

But on the other hand, just about any class can hit me first, and turn me to jell-o. Squishy, we are.

So why do I write this? Well, most every Wiz I speak to says that it's a whole different ballgame from 90+, and that you positively pwn like it's going outta fashion.

Is the damage that much higher at 90+? Because at 80, with my mag and my gear, I hit an 88 barb with my lvl 7 BIDS and lvl 7 water mastery... for only 3.3k!!. Lvl 10 Sandstorm hit for only 2.7k. And THAT, folks, is pretty shabby and disappointing.

It's enough to make me want to stay on my BM or Sin (versatile fkers, they are...), and give up on Wiz, for PvP considerations.

Is it worth considering a pure mag Wiz for future PvP, once he hits 90 and up? Or should I just stay content with the PvE aspect of kicking **** with high damage to mobs (which is fine, by me).

Any thoughts?

Roin - Harshlands

back when i played 8 months ago i did not find a big change other then the fact bm's can get as much magic def as you and unless you spend some $$$ on your 9x gear you might not have alot of hp/phys def i have seen alot of people just pveing till 100 with very crapy gear lately unless you want to like +3-4 all of it your hp will be under 4k and a sin can mostlikely 1 shot you right out of stealth if your def is bad and with all the 10x with +10-12 gear around it makes pvp hard sometimes with a good wpn and a jones blessing your 59 skills can 1 shot alot more people thow if they dont get to you first that is


and how pwi is now i dont think you will see a huge change till your 100 and geared up now but just take your time i hate seeing all the 10x runing around with lvl 70-80 gear try a little merching something to make some coins to help with your gear becuase it wont be cheap

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

Roin - Harshlands wrote: »

seeing all the 10x runing around with lvl 70-80 gear

Lols




uh
the change is ...the tt90 armor is pretty decent...
i mean.. chances vs equal lvl and refine other classes increase
pretty oblivious someone 10 lvls above you with nirvana gear +10 will kill you
(or a stabbie fish of your lvl without refines)

you can chain ultimates to kill... - higher chi pool..... 5spark combos.. uhm
wah with blessings you can try 3sparked frenzy ults on unexpected high lvls and might 1shot them


yay b:cool im a lvl 100 wizard with lvl90 armors

Is the damage that much higher at 90+? Because at 80, with my mag and my gear, I hit an 88 barb with my lvl 7 BIDS and lvl 7 water mastery... for only 3.3k!!. Lvl 10 Sandstorm hit for only 2.7k. And THAT, folks, is pretty shabby and disappointing.

uhm well you need to debuff... ult damage comes greatly from weapon too..so 90 is a better weapon... more damage..

for maximum damage with 1 ult:
get some attack charm apos, 3spark, >cloud erupt/sage li/chipot<, undine+frenzy/ep/whatver *ult*
crit should 1hit kittens below 20k hp (when they are for some reason unable to use a protection)

yes, this takes a ridiculous amount of time ^^

Borsuc - Raging Tide

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

uhm well you need to debuff... ult damage comes greatly from weapon too..so 90 is a better weapon... more damage..

So is lvl90 armor and ornaments for barbs moar HP and defenses.

Loltank - Harshlands

Your damage won't improve until you get sage/demon versions of skills. even then, don't expect to hit more than 3k on a well-geared opponent unless your weapon is +10 or higher.

Sad but true.

My +5 TT90 glaive hits 2.3k gush and pyro on catabarbs on HL with undine, dragon hits up to 6k noncrit with undine. Don't expect miracles, refining is everything to wizards.

fulgida

Loltank - Harshlands wrote: »

My +5 TT90 glaive hits 2.3k gush and pyro on catabarbs on HL with undine, dragon hits up to 6k noncrit with undine. Don't expect miracles, refining is everything to wizards.

Triple spark (which you should get before 90) should let you hit 5k+?

Roin - Harshlands

fulgida wrote: »

Triple spark (which you should get before 90) should let you hit 5k+?

GL doing that in tw thow and its not hard for them to stun you right after you spark if its normal pvp its better to use a sutra most of the time in 1v1

Burnout - Harshlands

Wiz are strong compared to other lvl 90 players with equal gears...it's just the top lvls are so strong now that ANY 90 class won't compete w/ a geared lvl 100. Take a 9x barb with average TT90 gears, maybe 10-12k hp, a crit gush takes them out in 1 shot with jones and +10 lunar...

compared to that, a TT90 9x wiz is not that bad off if they can ult a well-geared barb for 6k. A 9x barb or bm in 100+ pvp is useless, but a 9x wiz can still contribute and be a threat. But that's just imo, i guess. You feel squishy as a 9x wiz, but an archer, BM, barb, psy...they will die just as fast but won't do as much damage. Well, except archer i guess.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

the biggest boosts in damage i noticed were at:

90(Aquadash), 92(more sage skills), 99(tt99 and more sage skills).

BlastingWave - Harshlands

well im not 100 yet but ive certainl seen many 90+ wiziies (most were 99+) pk like crazy i ve seen em kill a nix veno by killing the nix in 3 spells yeah anix in 3 shots , and ive seen them kill demon clerics while the cleric spam IH himself by sleeping the wizy not even the plume shot was much damaging to them so u can easily comprehend the amount of phy def they had and ive seen them force back sins into stealth soo for me hell ya wizards rule in pvp above 90 and ps ur crying cause u did only 3.3k to a barb 8 LVLS HIGHER THAN YOU get a grip man skill levels matter as do your gear if you were 88 im sure you couldve easily beaten him

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Don't take everything these 90+ wizards say to heart. I notice alot of Wizards QQ about how underpowered we are, and how OP everyone else is, but it's the same in all class forums, including sins (can you believe it?).

if you really wanna know if a wizard owns in 9X+, please do some reading in the other classe's forum sections, because there are certain things that all class forums seem to agree on (this is, of course, with the class in question having equal gear/lvl at 90+):

Clerics- usually easy pickings. They're hard for wizards until endgame, then they're damage isnt anything to worry about. Blade Tempest is almost a sure thing, 1 hit k0.

Sins- OP fish who stealth, attack/stun you, give it their best shot, and if they fail, force stealth and try again in 5min. And if your lucky enough to even hit them back, doesnt really matter because of their anti-K0 skill.

Barbs- they will admit in their own forums, wizzies are one of the only classes that have a legit chance to kill a charmed barb. Even then, usually barbs are just a waste of time, they cant kill you, and you cant kill them.

Archers- their LA, which used to be so great, is now failing them with diminishing returns. They can still hit like trucks, but you can take it from them better than they can take it from you. Lots of QQing in archer forum about endgame and how horrible they are (you almost couldnt tell difference from the wizard forums)

Burnout - Harshlands

IMO the wizard has the strongest combination of Offense + Defense, and only the Barb rivals our power @ endgame. What we're weak at, however, is in control/anti-control skills. We are one of the only classes (other than cleric) who have no way to avoid stun aside from pots/ genies, and the only class without a spammable quick and easy freeze/stun.

Archers have stun arrow, barbs have mighty swing, psychics have a 1 sec cast aoe stun, clerics have sleep/freeze, venos have ironwood...BM's have....well you get the picture. Our soporific whisper is on a 2 minute cooldown and lasts 4 secs, which is almost OP enough as it is. So I can understand why our control skills are limited.

The key to wizard pvp is knowing your positioning, knowing when to use escape skills, and when to pot/genie, etc. Of course potting can get expensive so its often not worth it in pvp

Roin - Harshlands

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Don't take everything these 90+ wizards say to heart. I notice alot of Wizards QQ about how underpowered we are, and how OP everyone else is, but it's the same in all class forums, including sins (can you believe it?).

if you really wanna know if a wizard owns in 9X+, please do some reading in the other classe's forum sections, because there are certain things that all class forums seem to agree on (this is, of course, with the class in question having equal gear/lvl at 90+):

Clerics- usually easy pickings. They're hard for wizards until endgame, then they're damage isnt anything to worry about. Blade Tempest is almost a sure thing, 1 hit k0.

Sins- OP fish who stealth, attack/stun you, give it their best shot, and if they fail, force stealth and try again in 5min. And if your lucky enough to even hit them back, doesnt really matter because of their anti-K0 skill.

Barbs- they will admit in their own forums, wizzies are one of the only classes that have a legit chance to kill a charmed barb. Even then, usually barbs are just a waste of time, they cant kill you, and you cant kill them.

Archers- their LA, which used to be so great, is now failing them with diminishing returns. They can still hit like trucks, but you can take it from them better than they can take it from you. Lots of QQing in archer forum about endgame and how horrible they are (you almost couldnt tell difference from the wizard forums)

sorry bro but thats only with fail classes a cleric with good gear and my refines is not allways a 1 shot maby with jones a sin will only lose if he messed up or fails very bad (if its a 1v1) and it depends with archers i never found one gear like me that bad but most of the ones i pvp agest have +10-12 rank 8 bows now lol and it depends with barbs they die easy with the jones blessings but can 1 shot you with perd also thx to it most of the other classes that QQ about wiz are not talking about a normal wiz but a rank 8 +10-12 mostlikely that can crit over 10k with gush where a normal 9x wiz can do like 5k maby wizards realy come down to how good your gear is you want to have high refines or your hp and magic att might be 2 low for the real pvpers not the little noobs without refines or shards

TangLung - Lost City

Thank to everyone for your insights.

It's evident, at this stage, that the gear and the refines will ultimately be a major factor in the PvP aspect. Possibly even more so, than with other classes.

The power increase in damage output will be dramatic, from I've been able to assess, and this will make PvP a more viable option.

Thanks for the input.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

i cant believe there are so many people acutally spending so much cash for +12 or full 10 gear *facepalm*

(blabla merchanting, the source is the same)





oh why other classes outgear wizards is simple
they have better farming abilities

Burnout - Harshlands

Meh that's true, my gear is good enough that I could probably solo nirvana with a blue-ball cleric and charms and pots, but it would take SO long and cost so many pots it wouldn't be worth it. A fister can kill in 1/4 the time and probably go afk while doing it.

But honestly I hate farming the same thing over and over and I'm obsessed with merchanting, so it all works out in the end. b:laugh

..Yeah, I actually get up at 5:00 in the morning to restock my store and buy gold then go back to sleep. I soo need to quit this game b:surrender

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

..Yeah, I actually get up at 5:00 in the morning to restock my store and buy gold then go back to sleep. I soo need to quit this game b:surrender

Mayhaps you'll burnout soon.
b:cute

Loltank - Harshlands

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

So is lvl90 armor and ornaments for barbs moar HP and defenses.

Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »

Meh that's true, my gear is good enough that I could probably solo nirvana with a blue-ball cleric and charms and pots, but it would take SO long and cost so many pots it wouldn't be worth it. A fister can kill in 1/4 the time and probably go afk while doing it.

But honestly I hate farming the same thing over and over and I'm obsessed with merchanting, so it all works out in the end. b:laugh

..Yeah, I actually get up at 5:00 in the morning to restock my store and buy gold then go back to sleep. I soo need to quit this game b:surrender

At least you aren't getting up at 5AM to swipe your credit card again and again.

Burnout - Harshlands

We are pretty decent at farming 3rd past, though.

Jiblet - Sanctuary

Couple of points:

1 - the difference between 80 and 90 gear for wizzies is significant. TT80 is ****, TT90 is very good (I kept a lot of my 90 eq after 99 was available until I could replace it with nirvana)

2 - Sage/demon skills make a big big difference

3 - As already mentioned above, refines are more important for a wizzy than most other classes, both in DD and survivability. I took a break for a few weeks and loaned my cube neck and warsong belt to a friend (both high refined). When I came back I swapped over some lower eq from my veno until I saw him again....the difference was around 9k pdef fullbuffedb:sad

4 - Skillz are all. Doesn't matter if you have decent gear (nearly all endgame players do now) if you can't use it

KedgeSniper - Lost City

what i seen mages do against ep or any other mag class


Undine/spark(genie skill)/poison

All those skills help to debuff enemy for a higher damage

Frenzy would help too



Remember yar 8x n most server is 9x+ (Actually 100 now with hypers)


Wizards with decent gear are available to kill stuff <-yar answer

Brishi - Dreamweaver

How much do you need to refine Aquadash?

Bc i have a wheel of life on my wiz that is +5, that weapon have same dmg as a Aquadash +3

Teppeii - Dreamweaver

TangLung - Lost City wrote: »

My full HH80 gear is decently up to par, with all pieces +3 or more, mostly all with 3 or 4 sockets of HP shards.

Shard with Garnets. Watch people's physical attacks tickle you.b:bye

Aquagirl - Raging Tide

uhm....no.
Pdef will come from refining neck+belt + 95 rings stats. HP is the most needed from 95 up. Having +7 k pdef self buffed and over 11k pdef full buffed is quite common among endgame wizards. At that point all you need to make that pdef worth the money/time invested in it is HP. The more the better.
WITH NO PDEF shards a wizard should be +10k pdef/ 11k mdef at 99 without even trying to much. Any time/effort going into defenses at that point is better used to raise HP, since in average the HP will be somewhere around 5k unbuffed.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Aquagirl - Raging Tide wrote: »

WITH NO PDEF shards a wizard should be +10k pdef/ 11k mdef at 99 without even trying to much.

lmfao "without even trying too much" the cube neck/warsong belts are one of the best and you say that like it's nothing, every wiz has it, etc... not to mention highly refined cause otherwise there's no freaking way you can get 10k pdef without good gear. b:bye

Aquagirl - Raging Tide

Let me bring some light in yout corner mr. lvl 100 nub:
If you got there (100) without a warsong belt and a cube neck you might as well /wrists.
I farmed my cube neck and I payed 60 mil for my warsong belt. True, I didn't went from 0 to 100 in one month or two for that matter, but hey, I have gear, u have ... wait...what? lol.
I have no refine more than +6 except the weapon that is +10(TT99 sword) , no gems (citrines or garnets) just a mist of Perfects with Immac, still , full buffed full mag wiz build I have 8k HP and 11k pdef/12k mdef full buffed. Imposible? no, and If you can't believe it - I almost copied Ursa's build. Search where he/she posted it before he/she quit and chew on it for a while.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Aquagirl - Raging Tide wrote: »

Let me bring some light in yout corner mr. lvl 100 nub:
If you got there (100) without a warsong belt and a cube neck you might as well /wrists.
I farmed my cube neck and I payed 60 mil for my warsong belt. True, I didn't went from 0 to 100 in one month or two for that matter, but hey, I have gear, u have ... wait...what? lol.
I have no refine more than +6 except the weapon that is +10(TT99 sword) , no gems (citrines or garnets) just a mist of Perfects with Immac, still , full buffed full mag wiz build I have 8k HP and 11k pdef/12k mdef full buffed. Imposible? no, and If you can't believe it - I almost copied Ursa's build. Search where he/she posted it before he/she quit and chew on it for a while.

i prefer 90 gold and 4th map belt since i farmed my **** off for both of thoseb:surrender

Aquagirl - Raging Tide

Those two are close in stats, but of course the cube/ws brings some extra HP. Extra def is only visible once refines are being serious (8-9).
Anyway, you have the TT99 sword too, so that brings back a bit of HP you lost from cube/ws.