Sin or BM for PvE?

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gammazare
gammazare Posts: 54 Arc User
edited July 2010 in General Discussion
which is best for solo PVE when it comes to dps, endgame ability, cost, aoe grinding, how much fun they are etc.?
Post edited by gammazare on
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  • Nasuchi - Sanctuary
    Nasuchi - Sanctuary Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    AOE Grinding = BM, find a cleric friend and you can grind non-stop. This is why I love BM.
    Endgame = Depends on who's playing it, not the class.

    BM can tank a bit whilst giving out solid DPS.
    Sin is more PvP sided, it's squishy but has amazing DPS.
    At the end of the day it's best for you to try both out and see what you like more really.
  • NightRage - Raging Tide
    NightRage - Raging Tide Posts: 1,582 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    BM. Seriously. Wow I can't believe anyone would even try to argue otherwise...
  • Egaenil - Heavens Tear
    Egaenil - Heavens Tear Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    When you saying end game and aoe grind.. no1 aoe grind end game

    Also question is are you rich or poor? IF you JUST want to pve, and pve ONLY. if you are poor go with sin, so you can have rank armour and you can get to 5.0 a lot easier use fist/claw you can dd decent. in fact you can build a HA sin just for farming at end game, but you deal about 10-20% less compare to BM or archer. but at least when you say you are 5.0, ppl will want to take you to instance run.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"
  • MsEvilness - Heavens Tear
    MsEvilness - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Either. They're both as good as each other for endgame pve.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Originally posted by LShattered - HeavensTear
    Ohhh...I am dumb b:shutup
  • Lythianaa - Dreamweaver
    Lythianaa - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,307 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Choose yourself. It's your character and how you play.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thank you so much ForsakenX for the sig b:cute
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    BM, there is nothing a sin can do in PvE a BM can't do better.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    BM, there is nothing a sin can do in PvE a BM can't do better.

    There is. DPS. b:bye
  • Badazmofo - Dreamweaver
    Badazmofo - Dreamweaver Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    There is. DPS. b:bye

    umm how bout drop HF and then throw in some dps? b:shutup
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Yoyoki - Lost City
    Yoyoki - Lost City Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Badazmofo - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    umm how bout drop HF and then throw in some dps? b:shutup

    +1 b:victory
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    What's been said is pretty true, The only thing sins really have on bms is better dps prior to getting 5 aps. My sin hits 2.5 aps sparked and can keep it up just using one skill in between sparks. Aside from that, bms are better in virtually every way. Look at heaven's flame and roar of the pride.
  • Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver
    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver Posts: 660 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    What's been said is pretty true, The only thing sins really have on bms is better dps prior to getting 5 aps. My sin hits 2.5 aps sparked and can keep it up just using one skill in between sparks. Aside from that, bms are better in virtually every way. Look at heaven's flame and roar of the pride.

    Even when both have 5 aps, Assassins are still better at DPS. Daggers have a higher base damage than fists, and are based on dex, not str. In order to use fists/claws, BMs need very high dex. On the other hand, Assassins need considerably less str to weild their daggers (and wear light armor).
  • Tojop - Dreamweaver
    Tojop - Dreamweaver Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Comparing dps of 5 aps classes isn't all that relevant; it's going to be awesome, let's leave it at that. I would look at the other things the classses do. In the way of support skills, bms come out on top handily. Look at their respective roles in rebirth and FC; one is a simple (albeit very good) DD, the other is basically irreplaceable.
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Squeakytoy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Even when both have 5 aps, Assassins are still better at DPS. Daggers have a higher base damage than fists, and are based on dex, not str. In order to use fists/claws, BMs need very high dex. On the other hand, Assassins need considerably less str to weild their daggers (and wear light armor).

    But we're talking about PvE here.

    Last time I checked, Sins were horrible team players. This game demands teamwork for PvE, and you'll struggle to find a squad that would turn down a BM. A BM has AOE stun, several AOEs, and one very important AOE that amplifies the damage of all teammates on the target for 4 seconds. That's all that WITH the 5aps and on top of that they're prone to better physical defense and HP. Hell, they can switch out their physical defense for magical. A sin on the other hand can only run ahead like an arrogant **** and disappear on you when the fight gets tough.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Grillz - Lost City
    Grillz - Lost City Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    well basicly a sin is only a dd that can replace an archer since they can use there lv HH bows but that means you lose BoA while sins are good dds thats all they have. i think bms are beter because of aoes as well **** buffs and amps and lets not forget that in pve bms can serve as tanks for physical bosses because of there marrows and to save the party if the barb goes down for some reson they can tank for a bit unlike sins who usualy just shadow escape or whatever its called.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    BM, there is nothing a sin can do in PvE a BM can't do better.
    you mean by bypassing mobs and go straight to the bosses and solo them with rib strike and other things that makes life much easier?

    when it comes to 5aps you gain a good part of hp back, your dps is insane plus they have atk lvl. a good sin can also stun/sleep/immobilize targets, has aoe amplify too. sure, a bm have better defences and some good aoe skills but still, w/o a team its pointless to solo things just to **** your charm. is also very expensive to build a bm around dps. i can go on with the minus and pluses of each class but in the end i still think a sin is just better for pve only
  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    i love bm buffs

    and they have no annoying fish look
    i like potato
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    In HH assassins are better.


    In nirvana neither are better.


    In GV (Rebirth) BM's are irreplacable, and Sins are about as useless as you can get.
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    kenlee wrote: »
    you mean by bypassing mobs and go straight to the bosses and solo them with rib strike and other things that makes life much easier?

    when it comes to 5aps you gain a good part of hp back, your dps is insane plus they have atk lvl. a good sin can also stun/sleep/immobilize targets, has aoe amplify too. sure, a bm have better defences and some good aoe skills but still, w/o a team its pointless to solo things just to **** your charm. is also very expensive to build a bm around dps. i can go on with the minus and pluses of each class but in the end i still think a sin is just better for pve only

    There is also Rebirth. BMs have two 6 second stuns (longer if you are demon) and one unreliable 3 second one, more if you are demon. When it comes to end-game tanking, BMs win with their higher defenses, but Bloodpaint is what makes this game soloable. You can't really say either side is that much better.
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver
    __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    kenlee wrote: »
    you mean by bypassing mobs and go straight to the bosses and solo them with rib strike and other things that makes life much easier?

    when it comes to 5aps you gain a good part of hp back, your dps is insane plus they have atk lvl. a good sin can also stun/sleep/immobilize targets, has aoe amplify too. sure, a bm have better defences and some good aoe skills but still, w/o a team its pointless to solo things just to **** your charm. is also very expensive to build a bm around dps. i can go on with the minus and pluses of each class but in the end i still think a sin is just better for pve only

    Bypassing mobs that others still have to plow through or try to avoid? Unless you intend to solo as a Sin a lot, which would tend to get expensive too I'd think. If even possible at low-mid levels. X_X

    Me? I can't speak from the sin side of things, but I can say that a BM with up-to-date gear, pots and good timing can solo plenty of stuff. Pretty easy to pass myself off as a decent tank too. On the damage-taking side of things at least... b:embarrass
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    if your bm can solo stuff so a sin can do the same. then it comes to the tricky bosses that debuff and such like polearm or later fb99... a good sin (properly geared) would have an easier time soloing them than a bm (ofc counting later lvls and gear). if you want a char for pve only then its for farming only imo. in this case you make a sin imo. dont forget about CoA or DT where both have good dps but a sin can avoid troubles

    in GV you would replace a veno not a bm. like someone said, in nirvana neither is better but in TT sins is better.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    you mean by bypassing mobs and go straight to the bosses and solo them with rib strike and other things that makes life much easier?

    when it comes to 5aps you gain a good part of hp back, your dps is insane plus they have atk lvl. a good sin can also stun/sleep/immobilize targets, has aoe amplify too. sure, a bm have better defences and some good aoe skills but still, w/o a team its pointless to solo things just to **** your charm. is also very expensive to build a bm around dps. i can go on with the minus and pluses of each class but in the end i still think a sin is just better for pve only

    Wait so first you say that a sin can bypass mobs, then you say it's pointless to go without a team? Do you like run ahead and then let your squad fight the mobs without you?

    If you have 5 aps you will be tanking, BMs are better for that since they have higher defense/hp

    If a sin has 5 aps he wont be using CoD, unless he has fists, at which point he will have lower DPS.
    a good sin can also stun/sleep/immobilize targets, has aoe amplify too

    a BM can do all those things as well, only better.


    Oh and sins are useless in rebirth.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • NightRage - Raging Tide
    NightRage - Raging Tide Posts: 1,582 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    angellicdeity wrote: »
    In HH...

    I stopped reading here.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Oh and sins are useless in rebirth.
    you wont replace a bm. i guess is hard to read one post above
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    I know a sin won't replace a BM, they also won't replace ANYONE because they're useless in rebirth no matter what role they attempt to fill.


    Oh and sins are always "well we can do the venos job" you know who can do the veno's job even better? A veno.

    I'd much rather have a herc veno for rebirth than a sin. Veno can farm faster, can do quests faster, and when all the beans are collected they're far superior since they can do some damage rather than a sin who does his ONE aoe skill and then becomes useless.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    1 thing is the fun factor of playing a bm with multiple weapons and upgraded skills

    slash with a pole just for fun and higher range, aoe with your axe
    chain the ultimate attacks
    auto attack with fists for tanking

    weee


    RED AND BLUE DRAGON FUSION PEW PEW PEW PEW
    i like potato
  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    Nasuchi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    AOE Grinding = BM, find a cleric friend and you can grind non-stop. This is why I love BM.
    Endgame = Depends on who's playing it, not the class.

    BM can tank a bit whilst giving out solid DPS.
    Sin is more PvP sided, it's squishy but has amazing DPS.
    At the end of the day it's best for you to try both out and see what you like more really.

    you need a cleric to aoe grind? lol. im only 70, and i aoe on seaweed thieves, and i die once every 30 waves. And at endgame with sage/demon bell and marrow, 20 Avalanche Crushers at OVS will hurt less then 10 seaweeds thief at 70. All you need is Tree of Protection with high str in genie.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • Asheera - Raging Tide
    Asheera - Raging Tide Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »
    you need a cleric to aoe grind? lol. im only 70, and i aoe on seaweed thieves, and i die once every 30 waves. And at endgame with sage/demon bell and marrow, 20 Avalanche Crushers at OVS will hurt less then 10 seaweeds thief at 70. All you need is Tree of Protection with high str in genie.
    20? I pull all of them and kill them without even an effort. They do not even tick my charm, when I'm charmed from TW. Because of Bloodpaint and killing them in 3 secs after I triple spark.

    Remember that video about Killermate AoEing in 3rd map? That was weak compared to what I do. And I have +5 TT90 dagger only and 5.9k HP (she had around 7k in that video)

    So it depends imo on how good you play.


    About TT yes BMs can tank it better because of higher defense and HP but also they lack bloodpaint. If you're able to solo with a sin (by having very good gear of course) then sin >>> BM. BM can solo it with weaker gear, but when you get better and a sin could solo as well, sin owns (faster kill, less charm ****)

    It depends how powerful you are hoping to become imo.

    And someone mentioned HF at a boss in TT... you'll lose the sparks. If you have 5 aps it would be better to just fist the boss and triple spark. With a sin on the other hand, if you have 5 aps, not only you triple spark non stop, but also you have Inner Harmony to use Power Dash or Subsea every min as well. +40% Crit rate / +30% Amplify on top of the godly 5 aps with dagger triple sparked damage makes it insane
    First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
    Quit.
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Bypassing mobs that others still have to plow through or try to avoid?

    Big freaking dot.

    The only time a sin running ahead trying to be a badass has ever profited anyone is in the first two rooms of FC. Otherwise they're just needlessly creating a risk by seperating from the group AND denying the group of the sin's additional damage.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • Deathiris - Sanctuary
    Deathiris - Sanctuary Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    solo pve...? sin has more endgame potential, though getting there is not so easy.

    Uhm... stealth?
    Ive been running ahead of my squad in FCC like "an arrogant **** bag" opening all the doors and unlocking the big room. After the bubble boss dies it takes ~6-8 minutes to clear out linda, adawolf, and the aoe sleep boss. Squad just makes an L shaped path to big room instead of having to clear out most of the mobs in instance. Something that no BM will be able to do b:victory

    ^Abbadon/Seat BH gatekeeper mobs, I have not tried soloing the 2nd to last bosses yet, but for the most part my squad just takes the most direct path to final boss, kinda nice.

    soloing FCC or dealing game-breaking DPS is not something every 100+ sin will automatically be able to do, just noting the incredible endgame PvE potential of a sin. [Solo TT 3-3 anyone? dang emp killed me again ><]
  • GHealz - Archosaur
    GHealz - Archosaur Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited July 2010
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    OK lets see the add ups here...
    BM: Heavens Flame...sins has NOTHING in comparison to this skill
    : Fissure ok now we have as much AOES as sins do..but WAIT omg theres MORE
    : Highland cleave
    : Roar of the pride....sins have NOTHING that is as usefull as that
    : Drake Sweep
    : Fan of Flames.. now thats jus wat an AXE only bm can use,,,wat if he can use OTHER weapons like pole axes or fists or swords...thats EVEN more AOES
    in PVE sins cant compare to bms, don't think they can even in PKb:laugh
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tempest FTWb:bye

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