LV11 Ressurection demon/sage

Xoria - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Demon or sage. doesnt really matter which >.>

Bored so making a discussion.

"Should clerics have sage/demon ress? If so why, and does it differ between pvp and pve."

Lv11 (Sage/Demon) Ress
- One of the 2 skills, aside from spark passing veno, that does NOT physically benefit the owner but benefits others instead.
- This benefit is not a NEED but a WANT, as lower lvl skills will accomplish the basic task.
- Average cost 15-19M.
- Clerics will still need to carry a ress scroll yourself and possibly a Guardian scroll



my opinion:

PVE: ive went and sold about 3-4 sage revives cause their more profit >.> I have no intention of getting revive just to satisfy someone elses LAZYNESS of not carrying GA nor a ress scroll. I see no reason why i have to spend 15m and also carry a ress scroll/GA so that i may sate others satisfaction of saving coins and exp. Especially on runs like nirvana when couple pple accidentally die including the cleric (yes accidents happen), they LAY there USELESS waiting for the cleric to come back and ress, while the clerics themselves have to warp back. This process only takes less than 10sec mind u and it would have been way faster for them to warp back too. The image i get from that is
"It is the clerics job to have a guardian scroll if they are QQing about exp, but we also expect them to spend millions to save OUR[non-cleric] exp too, nvm the fact that us[non-cleric] having a scroll might make things go smoother."

PVP: oh god this is a whole new diff. light. Having a farther ressing distance or a faster channeling time could do tons of help, hands down. Id buy ress if tw were more frequent across the week.

My Opinion and why I got level 11 Revive when I have level 1 Revive until level 85:

Those who partied with me know I'm a great cleric and if they do their jobs, they will stay alive because I will stay alive. When they **** up, I simply don't heal them and let them die. They learned real fast not to do something stupid when they lost almost as much EXP from my revive as they would going to town. When someone doesn't learn, I just refuse to revive them.

One of the main reasons I went demon to begin with was the halved channel time it offers on Revive. It means I can quickly resurrect someone because it will probably mean it was genuinely my fault, therefore it's my apology I offer in return. If they decide to rant and rave, I just won't resurrect.

The skill is worth getting, but you can choose when and when not to apply the skill. It will benefit you when people know you have the skill, are competent to keep everyone alive, and when you DO **** up (that's why erasers are at the end of a pencil), you can fix it with minimal penalties that they will want to keep you in squads all the time.

Ashivas - Dreamweaver

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

Her actual point is about whether you totally must buy the Sage/Demon Revive or not when it costs a fortune to get it but I agree with your point as well. However, sometimes people can be so whiny and Q_Q that you wish you could revive them and lost their exp. THOSE people don't deserve your maxed revive nor your being caring and helpful.

If it's the players fault he died I make him release, or find another cleric. If I die because of someone else, I make him release. My res is 10, and I will get Demon res when the time comes, and when my level doesn't suck.

If i'm questing and someone I don't know asks me for a res, I say "5k per res".

I'm not a charity organization.

Ashivas - Dreamweaver

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I will never ever buy Demon res. I would much rather take the 16+ mil and go refine my gear or add a socket. Call me mean, call me insensitive. I don't really care. I'm not here to babysit idiots. Level 11 res --> squads suddenly becoming careless. I will NEVER forget the one day we had a duo cleric 3-2 and the second cleric had level 11 res. Two people in the squad actually PUT AWAY their GS and scrolls (said so, too) because the cleric said she had level 11 res. Why should I only take the loss?

I do so wish I could de-level my res now b:sweat

And to those that say clerics should help people and not QQ, etc: grow up. We're not here to indenture ourselves to others. I'll help to a point, and that's it. If I can res myself with my own res, I'll gladly buy demon res right now =p

That's a ... good point :O

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've said this before lol...the more people that max their ress, the better the server becomes as a whole. Somewhere down the line you're going to die and someone else will ress you with lvl 11 ress, when that happens, you're going to know why one would want to level ress to 11. If everyone has this attitude that they don't have to level something that only benefits others, then no one gets max ress, including themselves. You could say that hey, why don't other people help me pay for my lvl 11 ress? If you run with a static group to instanced activities, I wouldn't see why not.

Someone with lvl 11 ress was with us at Sonic last night. It was great (except the boss dropped ****...Sonic has always dropped ****)

so... how does this apply to the 95% activities in PWI where there is a squad and only 1 cleric?? Most clerics carry a ress scroll or GA cause they know 95% of the time they gonna have to walk back =o

Xoria - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

cause they know 95% of the time they gonna have to walk back =o

If I know it's going to happen, then I don't squad with them b:thanks since I'm one of those clerics that never carry a resurrection scroll OR guardian scroll.

Yamiino - Heavens Tear

I don't really think the OP got this level revive for the right reasons.

First of all, why is level 11 revive so expensive if it can be made with tokens at the same exact drop rate?

A: 90% of the clerics want this still, when around 30-40% of them can pay a good amount of coins for it. This, increases the price of an item, demand. Even though it has the same drop rate as other skills, the value people give to 0% experience loss is high, which as well increases the value.

After explaining this, now you should know why it is expensive, I don't really think this skill should be worth more than 2m to be honest. But its the clerics themselves that give it a price.

Okay, now, why is level 11 revive so important for a cleric?

A: Level 11 revive is extremly important and valuable for a cleric due to the fact that clerics main task is support people. As so, if people know you have this skill level 11, they will consider taking YOU over the players that have level 10 revive.

Gives the squad more security (in some cases too much than the cleric would want to...).


And finally, why using level 11 revive over level 10-?

If you are a cleric, and you have friends, you should care about them and helping them, I know it is odd that this skill does not help you on the first hand, however, if you help your faction / friends and there're other clerics with this skill there, they will help you as well.

The main thing about this skill is to help of who you care about AND to give a higher value to your toon.

Sure you can charge for this revive, I used to get pms every single day about reviving people when they were @ the other side of the map / in a instance, so I did this:

Charge whoever needs the revive the teleporting fees (50-60k or so), yes not all that money goes to teleporting, you have to think about the time as well, and what kind of help you're getting, if the player did not carry a revive scroll + a guardian scroll (which is equal to 150k more or less) then its their problem.

Yes it can be anoying to have this skill, so you have to set your limits on it. Else you will be flying all around the map forever to help others... which is not the point.

Xoria - Sanctuary wrote: »

If I know it's going to happen, then I don't squad with them b:thanks since I'm one of those clerics that never carry a resurrection scroll OR guardian scroll.

Hehe I do the same, if I die its not my fault 99% of the time, since I'm not in charge of DD / tanking. Said this, my squads provides me a revive scroll + guardian scroll if I don't have one from past runs which is nice

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

i think we are brainwashed to think that we are obligated to get lv11 revive 'for our dearest friends' and to up our 'clericy status'. I mean really, if lv11 were ONLY about the faster casting and farther distance, what idiot would pay more than 20-30M for that kinda skill. Now if it were the other way around and the bonus was ONLY 0% exp loss (no channeling, no distance) then yes i think the cost will still be as high as 20M.

I care about my friends and faction alot, but if they are really friends i expect them not to judge my worth by how much exp i save them AFTER they freaking die, especially when they know this skill costs alot.
If that is so then it must be completely ok to prio friends over other friends of same skill, by looking at their uber gear, cause they spent so much and it ultimatly leads to a better squad performance.

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't really think the OP got this level revive for the right reasons.

who said the OP got the revive? o.O

Decus - Dreamweaver

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I care about my friends and faction alot, but if they are really friends i expect them not to judge my worth by how much exp i save them AFTER they freaking die, especially when they know this skill costs alot.

^ This

+1

RedsRose - Lost City

Xoria - Sanctuary wrote: »

If I know it's going to happen, then I don't squad with them b:thanks since I'm one of those clerics that never carry a resurrection scroll OR guardian scroll.

I find it hard to believe that you have never died because things have gone wrong...you can never know what is going to happen.

**** happens and some things you just cannot prevent.

For myself, Dolls and Res Scrolls are more of a convenience for me...I don't want to have to walk back b:chuckle

The biggest example I have is in 3-3 @ last boss...I solo heal this boss = Res scrolls a must for just in case purposes.

ExELFine - Heavens Tear

This discussion reminds me of the epic ones we used to have about FAC vs FSC, and me as a FAC would refuse to level rez beyond lev 3. I only maxed it in my 80s and I'm not so sure I'm happy with it.

Here's why. I wear both charms at all times, me being so squishy as a full MAG cleric, and I also use meats & herbs along with red and blue pots, plus my genie has a healing skill as well. That's to keep me alive. I also carry rez scrolls and GA's, to avoid having to go back and forth, I'm so slow already and I kind of get lost pretty easy in large caves.

Since I've maxed my rez skill, I noticed at first that everyone I squadded with were pretty happy. I also noticed that they got much lazier, careless and cheap. They wouldn't bother carrying any pots or herbs and if charmed, made it clear they didn't want their charms to tick and in general, tended to rely on me for all their needs and blaming me whenever things went wrong.

My first alt -- a lev 82 psychic -- also wears charms, carries pots, meats & herbs as well as GAs. The main reason is that, as a psychic, I hate to depend on someone else to keep me healed at all times, when the cleric might be busy rezzing or healing someone else (tank, barb, etc). If cleric heals my psychic, I appreciate it. I try to play responsibly.

So, to those who pretend we have to babysit our friends by getting lev 11 rez and that we will be more "popular", I say we'd be more like suckers to get that sage/demon skill in the first place and second, we would be doing our friends a great disservice by making them more relying on us.

I'm not willing to spend 15-20 mils just to become a sucker to everyone's attention, and if some squad or faction would reject me in favour of a lev 11 rez-skilled cleric, it's their loss, not mine. It means that they are expecting to die more than their usual share and squads like that, I can do without.

As I level, there are lots of instances I've been that witnessed no death at all, everyone knows what they're doing, they needing minimum healing so I can DD along with them and heal at the same time when needed. I'd rather squad with those, they're a lot more fun too.

I'll save my coins and spirit for more important skills.

Yamiino - Heavens Tear

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

who said the OP got the revive? o.O

Sorry, thought you had it since you were stating both points of view PVE and PVP.

Xoria - Sanctuary

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that you have never died because things have gone wrong...you can never know what is going to happen.

**** happens and some things you just cannot prevent.

For myself, Dolls and Res Scrolls are more of a convenience for me...I don't want to have to walk back b:chuckle

The biggest example I have is in 3-3 @ last boss...I solo heal this boss = Res scrolls a must for just in case purposes.

Care to point out where in my statement that I said I never died?

As mentioned before, if you know something is going to go wrong (and this is very easy to see coming, especially if you know your squad members), you can:

1. Stand back out of AoE reach;
2. Do not heal;
3. If the mess created looks salvagable (which you should be able to judge correctly by your own healing limits), make sure the tank or another DD has hit every mob in the area.

Great example of the above at work: I was helping on FB39 and everyone but me is under level 43. There is no barbarian and the tabber, a cleric, doesn't have lead as she stands next to the pillar, asking and waiting so she can tab the quest in. The leader, a blademaster, rushes in toward Farren and uses Drake's Ray to hit one of the boss's lackeys. I saw him move toward the boss and immediately moved back away from the group. The boss aggros and starts AoEing. The tabber dies in one hit along with the wizard, psychic and veno. BM dies and the boss resets. I'm untouched and I begin to res the squad, leaving the BM last.

This is how you keep your own hide safe. I can safely say I have died less than twenty times from start until present and had less than ten squad wipes (this is excluding cracking Lunarglade before it was revamped, FCC before revamped and Warsong City and first day Nirvana came out). I do my job when the others do their own.

RedsRose - Lost City

^ I was making a blanket statement since you seem to have an air of arrogance in how you are. As in you will not squad with ppl if you think or know they will "mess up" in your eyes. The point I was trying to make is that **** happens. I have been in some preventable and some VERY non-preventable situations in which myself or the entire party has wiped.

I do all that I can to save myself and the squad and imo do a very good job. However, there are so many factors that can come into play that you just never know. In that case, I carry dolls and res scrolls for those situations. Like I said as an example, 3-3 Illusion...If I am the solo healer (which I often am), I carry the res scrolls as security. I have even had an entire party wipe but myself and I did not run. I continued to hold the bosses aggro, res my party members and even finish killing the boss.

Also, I will never not heal someone if they are in trouble and if I know I can handle any potential aggro that may occur, which is extremely rare if I am healing my squad member(s).

The last thing that I want is to see myself or any squad member die, but it happens. However, I will not run to save my behind and leave everyone there with charm burn and such. Besides, my squad members watch out for me as they should...I keep them alive and they keep me alive b:cute

Ashivas - Dreamweaver

This thread has made me:
A.) Not want demon res.
And B.) Since Res was one of the reasons I wanted Demon, (half channeling to prevent squad wipes), I'm now beginning to consider Sage even more.

I'm quite a ways away from picking Sage/Demon, or getting skills in general. But I want to think long and hard about it o.O

Xoria - Sanctuary

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

^ I was making a blanket statement since you seem to have an air of arrogance in how you are. As in you will not squad with ppl if you think or know they will "mess up" in your eyes. The point I was trying to make is that **** happens. I have been in some preventable and some VERY non-preventable situations in which myself or the entire party has wiped.

I do all that I can to save myself and the squad and imo do a very good job. However, there are so many factors that can come into play that you just never know. In that case, I carry dolls and res scrolls for those situations. Like I said as an example, 3-3 Illusion...If I am the solo healer (which I often am), I carry the res scrolls as security. I have even had an entire party wipe but myself and I did not run. I continued to hold the bosses aggro, res my party members and even finish killing the boss.

Also, I will never not heal someone if they are in trouble and if I know I can handle any potential aggro that may occur, which is extremely rare if I am healing my squad member(s).

The last thing that I want is to see myself or any squad member die, but it happens. However, I will not run to save my behind and leave everyone there with charm burn and such. Besides, my squad members watch out for me as they should...I keep them alive and they keep me alive b:cute

I actually squad with a lot of strangers and at first glance, you're right, you never know what may or may not go wrong. What I am saying is watch your surroundings and what your squad members do. Members that run waaaaaaaaaaay off ahead are (generally, but not always), trouble- makers and aggro- pullers. If there is an air of arrogance about the way I post here, oh well, that's only one way of perceiving the message.

I say what I say because playing on my alt, a veno, I have done BHs where members blamed clerics because he or she tried to save them and healed them when all aggro wasn't taken and was pummeled to death by an enemy or two, squad wiped and he or she took the blame. Or even when he or she healed the tank, but their HP was too far gone and taking too much damage to save. I've seen it happen a lot and you know what? It wasn't the cleric's fault! In those instances, if you can prevent your own death and items being used futilely, then why not do it? Especially when you can explain to so- and- so "what went wrong" (IE: Extreme Poison doesn't lure that one high HP'd Wurlord anymore. Only Earthflame does now.), what's the problem? You're required to pay for someone else's stupidity or stubbornness because they don't 'want' to learn how aggression works? That's like saying you DO need that sage or demon revive just to make others happy and take all the worst costs yourself.

Trust me, there are a lot of people out there that respond with "Lol, you're talking sht" when you explain aggro, heal aggro, luring and catching. Then repeat the same exact mistake they made moments ago.

I'll keep to playing smart over satisfying someone else's ego. Also, kindly do not put words in my mouth.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Xoria - Sanctuary wrote: »

Great example of the above at work: I was helping on FB39 and everyone but me is under level 43. There is no barbarian and the tabber, a cleric, doesn't have lead as she stands next to the pillar, asking and waiting so she can tab the quest in. The leader, a blademaster, rushes in toward Farren and uses Drake's Ray to hit one of the boss's lackeys. I saw him move toward the boss and immediately moved back away from the group. The boss aggros and starts AoEing. The tabber dies in one hit along with the wizard, psychic and veno. BM dies and the boss resets. I'm untouched and I begin to res the squad, leaving the BM last.

This is where u say................


"stand back men...........

I'M TANKING" b:cool

SolSong - Heavens Tear

Why I'll be getting lvl 11 rez....

a) because every so often through no fault of anyone an instance goes south. I can take the place of a dead char and go in and rez the cleric w/who has lvl 11 rez as well (most of my friends do have theirs) so for once they don't loose EXP (as a lot of them TW sometimes GSs get left in the bank after TW LOL)

b) This cleric is an alt so if I'm in that party I just swap chars no biggy.

c) I'm tired of my cleric buddies losing exp cause the boss decides to one shot parts of the squad back to back with 11k plus damage (thanks to emperor this happened to me, followed by the cleric and a few others in TT)

d) So my cleric friends have a "rez" buddy that they know they can bug to rez them...I'm suicidial enough on my main to go out of my way to protect them from death for as long as I can. If that means I'm the last DD standing so they can get out of the way I'll die or lure the boss off so they can rez the squad; they know it and appreciate it.

e) they've rez'd me enough times (teleported across the map and refused payment for teleports) then this is small token of my appreciation so that I can pay it back then it's worth it.

f) this isn't about the cleric or me it's about those that have been there for me in the past and will be there for me in the future...now I can back them up as needed.