Why fists/claws
Comments
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Blackula__ - Archosaur wrote: »So this is something that has been rolling around in my head for weeks.....Ever since I was told to use fists on the Bishop boss. Why do archers even try to use a weapon that is effected by strength? I love the idea of changing up for something close but it seems impractical?
it is impractical unless you cash shop... why roll a fist archer without -intervals and refines?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »it is impractical unless you cash shop... why roll a fist archer without -intervals and refines?
To conserve your ammo? To control your aggro (unless you're stacking -int gear, in which case you're most likely soloing/tanking). Those are two reasons off the top of my head.0 -
Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »it is impractical unless you cash shop... why roll a fist archer without -intervals and refines?
to confuse and disorientate your enemy........ jk cuz if theres anything that makes a archer look even remotely cool as a bow its claws
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Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »To conserve your ammo?
I find it funny that people sometimes think I use claws to save money. It costs me ~7 coins in repairs to attack. Since my arrows cost me 2 coins, it costs me ~9 coins per attack for my bow, and ~7 coins per attack. So in terms of cost per second:
Claws: (2.68 attacks/second)*(7coins/attack) = 18.8 coins/second
Bow: (.77 attacks/second)*(9coins/attack) = 6.9 coins/second
((2.68 aps is the average aps for 2.5aps claws + demon spark, factoring in all timings))
So, its costs me nearly 3x as much to use my claws instead of my bow, assuming the rest of my gear takes no damage as a result, which is far from true. I would estimate that since my claws draw enough agro that I need to tank, I'm spending 10-15x more money than I was shooting arrows into my enemies.
However, in terms of money/time, I would be hard pressed to find an activity where my claws wouldn't be worth using, assuming I have the stats/gear necessary to do it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"People who quote themselves in their signatures are silly. I mean, they can just make up whatever **** they want, and since they said it in their siggie, its a quote." - Smobo0 -
no way. archers with claws/fists look discusting... the only way id be using them is to make more dmg on bosses :> my lvl/ better -int gear archers need at least 4aps with claws to outdmg me.. 3aps = i deal same dmg, but i deal more cos of crits - i hit every 3rd crit, they hit every 5th-4th crit.. that is sparked, unsparked 3aps = claw better.. but it also depend on situation cos in some nirvana bosses while others run away from explosions/splash or w.e i keep shooting :> but i need cloud eruption and veno spark is also fun to keep up with 3aps non sparked claw archers. 4 aps deal +- 3k dmg /sec more and 5aps deal +- 6k dmg/sec more having in mind similar gear.. i mean dmg = physical attack shown on character menu, not the dmg boss receives, cos its affected by def/resist/debuffs/etc.
did nirvana yesterday with 3 normal 1 claw archers and no bm - was slightly slower having no bm at all, but waaay faster then with 4bms i did previously.. thats +- normal gear both times (had no 5aps archers/bms)0 -
Smobo - Heavens Tear wrote: »I find it funny that people sometimes think I use claws to save money. It costs me ~7 coins in repairs to attack. Since my arrows cost me 2 coins, it costs me ~9 coins per attack for my bow, and ~7 coins per attack. So in terms of cost per second:
Claws: (2.68 attacks/second)*(7coins/attack) = 18.8 coins/second
Bow: (.77 attacks/second)*(9coins/attack) = 6.9 coins/second
((2.68 aps is the average aps for 2.5aps claws + demon spark, factoring in all timings))
So, its costs me nearly 3x as much to use my claws instead of my bow, assuming the rest of my gear takes no damage as a result, which is far from true. I would estimate that since my claws draw enough agro that I need to tank, I'm spending 10-15x more money than I was shooting arrows into my enemies.
However, in terms of money/time, I would be hard pressed to find an activity where my claws wouldn't be worth using, assuming I have the stats/gear necessary to do it.
WOOT you should start using those arrows that are 75 coins each b:surrender0 -
The best way to burn through money fast is 5aps DD with attack charms b:chuckle I burned through 8000 last CoA.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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crazy b:shocked i never use them, only in tw if i have but even then not essential cos ppl die fast :P used in nien beast event once, was cursing afterwards how i spent like 200k via charms and got top 20 in return... (no claws)0
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If there is another archer out there like me.. which i dont think there is but hell you never know. I like having max damage for my bow so i never restated for Claws. Currently i have 104 str. Now it took me a while to get them but OHT claws reifine nicely and if you can get them with -30% req. you can keep all your dex. I am still searching for -30% and
.05 so i can get to 5.0. but in the mean time 4.0 still works fine.0 -
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get one related to numbers and game mechanics
i like potato0 -
Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver wrote: »If there is another archer out there like me.. which i dont think there is but hell you never know. I like having max damage for my bow so i never restated for Claws. Currently i have 104 str. Now it took me a while to get them but OHT claws reifine nicely and if you can get them with -30% req. you can keep all your dex. I am still searching for -30% and
.05 so i can get to 5.0. but in the mean time 4.0 still works fine.
Gorenox Vanity is only 136 str. That's not much. All you need is to switch to a str tome or some rings.
One arch on our serv puri & using those +10 b:surrender b:sad Pwns all in event.
Besides my dragons I also got a pair of OHT fists: -20 REQ; +16 dex +245 HP; only 120 str needed[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I'm currently using a pair of 3* level 73 fists with -20% requirement and a +phys attack modifier. 95 strength including gear, so if anything I've got less strength than I ought to.Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver wrote: »If there is another archer out there like me.. which i dont think there is but hell you never know. I like having max damage for my bow so i never restated for Claws. Currently i have 104 str. Now it took me a while to get them but OHT claws reifine nicely and if you can get them with -30% req. you can keep all your dex. I am still searching for -30% and
.05 so i can get to 5.0. but in the mean time 4.0 still works fine.
I'm at -0.15 interval, so I'm nowhere near permaspark yet, but by my calculations my fist DPS is a bit higher than my bow DPS.
Sadly, I don't think it's possible to have both -requirement and -interval. Both stats exist only as "unique addons", so you can only have one.0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »I'm currently using a pair of 3* level 73 fists with -20% requirement and a +phys attack modifier. 95 strength including gear, so if anything I've got less strength than I ought to.
I'm at -0.15 interval, so I'm nowhere near permaspark yet, but by my calculations my fist DPS is a bit higher than my bow DPS.
Sadly, I don't think it's possible to have both -requirement and -interval. Both stats exist only as "unique addons", so you can only have one.
Depends on your bow.
Against CV Bows, only CV claws with permanent spark can out damage a bow. With quickshot, spark and passive amplifiers decent bows will always deal more damage than claws until permanent spark is reached.
Until permanent spark is reached there is only at most 2 extra shots a claw or fist will make. 2 extra shots of unsparked damage pales in comparison to bows with blazing arrow bonuses, bow mastery bonuses, DEX bonuses, critical damage, etc.0 -
angellicdeity wrote: »Depends on your bow.
Against CV Bows, only CV claws with permanent spark can out damage a bow. With quickshot, spark and passive amplifiers decent bows will always deal more damage than claws until permanent spark is reached.
Until permanent spark is reached there is only at most 2 extra shots a claw or fist will make. 2 extra shots of unsparked damage pales in comparison to bows with blazing arrow bonuses, bow mastery bonuses, DEX bonuses, critical damage, etc.
hey look... the noob with 3 level 102 characters is back again. in case you didn't know a half assed refined 85 gold ff fists can easily hit perma spark with demon spark and out damage a +10 cv bow... no need for cv claws.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
nub question:
how much -interval gear you need to add to be permasparked? or better put: how much -interval you need in total from gear to get to permaspark, the minimum amount (demon spark of course, since is the easiest)____________
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VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »Gorenox Vanity is only 136 str. That's not much. All you need is to switch to a str tome or some rings.
One arch on our serv puri & using those +10 b:surrender b:sad Pwns all in event.
Besides my dragons I also got a pair of OHT fists: -20 REQ; +16 dex +245 HP; only 120 str needed
Well, considering that it's been shown that Band from Heaven's Jail leads to the highest DPS, if you use 1 of those, an event tome, lunar cape and warsoul helmet, you end up with enough str to use Deicide without statting any more str than normal.If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.
Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.0 -
Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »nub question:
how much -interval gear you need to add to be permasparked? or better put: how much -interval you need in total from gear to get to permaspark, the minimum amount (demon spark of course, since is the easiest)
-3.5 interval (2.86 ar) with demon spark(4.00 ar) can give perma spark for 5-6 sparks in a row starting with 399.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
b:questionWell, considering that it's been shown that Band from Heaven's Jail leads to the highest DPS,
Which woulld be better Heaven jail or Seal of Solitude? 6 or maybe over crit% versus more atk
I tried out both sets of rings. With heaven got about 500-600 more dmg sparked but lost the crits & vit[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »hey look... the noob with 3 level 102 characters is back again. in case you didn't know a half assed refined 85 gold ff fists can easily hit perma spark with demon spark and out damage a +10 cv bow... no need for cv claws.
Hey look, the n00b from heavens tear who doesn't know how to play his class....
Maybe you should go figure out how to be an archer before you begin calculating how much DPS you need before you can out-damage a +10 CV bow.
And no, 85 Frost Covered Fists are 0.05 interval. To maintain permanent spark you need 2.86 attack rate unbuffed. Which means you need a scroll of tomb if you want to have any sort of survivability. Nerfing yourself with OHT gears wont cut it. And if you have rank 8 you dont need the tomb, but if you have rank 8 you're rank 8 bow will already out-damage those Frost Covered fists when refined.
Again learn your class.... Then maybe you'll become good enough to figure out how to use claws effectively.
But then again I cant expect you to fully undersand why nothing short of permanent spark will not match the damage of a +!0 CV bow. Considering your sage and all....
Maybe if you knew about Quickshot and Demonspark you'd understand better. But then again, failing to understand these means you fail to understand our class.0 -
angellicdeity wrote: »Hey look, the n00b from heavens tear who doesn't know how to play his class....
Too much noob talk.
Hey noob from LC learn about dps before you can talk b:bye.
I have ff+8 fist and It easily out DD my lunar +10 and yes I got 5.0 perm spark XD and even when I was 4.0 I can out DD my lunar +10, and yes I got ALL my demon skills and nope I did NOT restat to use fist, as many ppl pointed out earlier I just switch my rings around.
Reason so many archer using FF fist is coz the proc, it actually STACK with spark, that extra 8% to overall damage helps!![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"0 -
angellicdeity wrote: »Hey look, the n00b from heavens tear who doesn't know how to play his class....
Maybe you should go figure out how to be an archer before you begin calculating how much DPS you need before you can out-damage a +10 CV bow.
And no, 85 Frost Covered Fists are 0.05 interval. To maintain permanent spark you need 2.86 attack rate unbuffed. Which means you need a scroll of tomb if you want to have any sort of survivability. Nerfing yourself with OHT gears wont cut it. And if you have rank 8 you dont need the tomb, but if you have rank 8 you're rank 8 bow will already out-damage those Frost Covered fists when refined.
Again learn your class.... Then maybe you'll become good enough to figure out how to use claws effectively.
But then again I cant expect you to fully undersand why nothing short of permanent spark will not match the damage of a +!0 CV bow. Considering your sage and all....
Maybe if you knew about Quickshot and Demonspark you'd understand better. But then again, failing to understand these means you fail to understand our class.
so what if ff fist gives -0.05 int. if memory serves ff fist by it self gives a 1.54 atk/s.
throw in the tt99 bracer for 1.82 atk/s.
throw in a 2nd piece of tt99 for 2 atk/s.
throw in nirv leg for 2.22 atk/s.
2nd set of tt99 for 2.5 atk/s.
cape for 2.86 atk/s.
rank 6 chest for 3.33 atk/s
and to top it off... lets throw in the tome for 4 atk/s.
and this is 4 without demon spark and with a -0.05 int weapon. of course its easier to do it with a -0.1 int weapon. but since you said that the min requirement is 2.86 unsparked... i just proved its do able without a -int tome... and no use of any old ht gear (not sure why you even mention old ht).
and finally... i am still waiting for you to post on one of your 3 all so powerful level 102s. this way we can all have a laugh at a complete idiotic level 102.
edit: for the sake of my boredom...
lets change the weapon to a -0.1 int for 5 atk/s.
-- any sage archer rich enough to get this is gonna own any demon archer in pve fist/claws.
or or... rank 8 chest for a ****ing 6.67 atk/s UNSPARKED.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Hey noob from nowhere, post from your main or GTFO-- as far as I'm concerned you play on a private server, are an oracle noob, or are fabricating everything you say about archers. If we don't know who you are, can't see your gear, or know anything about you, you are a TROLL.angellicdeity wrote: »Hey look, the n00b from heavens tear who doesn't know how to play his class....
Now stop harping on people. They're trying to be productive. You? You're being an antagonistic troll.
On topic:
A FC fist at 5 APS can out DPS a +10 heaven shatterer. I'm posting from my main. You can come online to Dreamweaver and see my +10 HS. We can race through Nirvana. We can compare PvP kills. We can even fight each other, but conveniently none of your 102 chars will be on Dreamweaver.
Attacks per second are capped at 5, otherwise demon would be superior clawrcher.5.0 "Pure" 8jun Sage Clawrcher of Dreamweaver0 -
Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »Hey noob from nowhere, post from your main or GTFO-- as far as I'm concerned you play on a private server, are an oracle noob, or are fabricating everything you say about archers. If we don't know who you are, can't see your gear, or know anything about you, you are a TROLL.
Now stop harping on people. They're trying to be productive. You? You're being an antagonistic troll.
On topic:
A FC fist at 5 APS can out DPS a +10 heaven shatterer. I'm posting from my main. You can come online to Dreamweaver and see my +10 HS. We can race through Nirvana. We can compare PvP kills. We can even fight each other, but conveniently none of your 102 chars will be on Dreamweaver.
Attacks per second are capped at 5, otherwise demon would be superior clawrcher.
b:shocked are you guys gona have a FIST fight? Bare knuckle fight!!! b:shocked FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"0 -
Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »Attacks per second are capped at 5, otherwise demon would be superior clawrcher.
thats a good thing as far as i am concerned... or else demons would be able to hit 8 atk/s. anyways... i posted the 6.67 to show that there is some play room if sages decided to go for 5aps. either save some money and stick with rank 6... or throw in event shoes for that extra hp/crit.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
TROLL time XD FREE!!! YAY!!
anyway yea.. 5dps is already haxo enough we dont want any more b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"0 -
8 APS Demon archer.....
Someone go private server this up NOW! b:dirty0 -
LOL aarrrrr... stop talking about 8dps, the only way to beat that is 10dps b:laugh[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"wink wink"0
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We'll just stack so much that we get -1.0 interval and break the game with our ability to do infinite attacks per second. Aka the ultimate 1 (million)-hit KO. b:shocked0
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Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »6.67 atk/s UNSPARKED.
If a demon archer achived enough -int to reach this with fist(i know that its capped at 5 a/s), then with a lunar bow or any bow with -.1 int what would their a/s be sparked and with quickshot proc. (too early in the morning for me to do math lol)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Badazmofo - Dreamweaver wrote: »If a demon archer achived enough -int to reach this with fist(i know that its capped at 5 a/s), then with a lunar bow or any bow with -.1 int what would their a/s be sparked and with quickshot proc. (too early in the morning for me to do math lol)
if memory serves... bow is capped at 2.51. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0
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