La or Pure ?

X_noelle_x - Lost City

Hello all , actually i'm creating a Wizard and i am a little loss with it.
I read fact about it and try things ingame and still i'm not sure if i should go pure Mag or LA.

I have use the perfect world calculator ( http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/) and try the two build at lvl 90 for seeing the difference of def and dmg with gear.


And i found this :


With an La Build my wiz get 5587/6517 damage and around 70% in P.def and 60% in m.def

With a Pure Mag build i get 6992/8157 damage and around 54% in P.def and 74% in m.def.


In both case i use the TT green LA and AA armor and i assume that i am full buffed by clerc bm and myself.

On the paper it seems LA is better for "staying alive".
But due to the lower damage , i noticed that i need at least 3 spells instead of 2 for killing a mob of my lvl. And due to this the mob can hit me once. If it's not a great deal against monster if it was pvp i believe that for this first hit it would be a stun-hit meanwhile they will drink pot and combo me letting me no other option than running for kitting and when i run i don't do dmg and their life restore in peace plus my spell can be interrupted while they strike me.

On the other hand Pure seem do to great damage but with 54% p.def with my lower life cauz ( cauz i should do a mix of garnet with my rob ?) if they stun-hit me i think i won't even get the chance to run b:surrender
Or will they just don't have the chance to hit me ?

So , how people does ? Does the difference in dmg against LA and Pure are really significant ? Or LA can do better damage in pvp ? or pure got better survivabilty trick than this ?

Ursa - Dreamweaver

if you want to play around with it, go LA. Cheaper path, better survival since I guess you're making it on PVP server.
Wanna go endgame with it? Same thing until 95. LA. Power lvl it to 75+, get in frost, get to 90 in 1 week maximum and to 95 in another week.
From 95 you need event gear or you just play to kill time.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

u can post the ling with that builds?

fulgida

Be sure to include skill damage when calculating how much damage you do.

But remember that a lot of monsters do magical damage (and so do a lot of players).

X_noelle_x - Lost City

Here the links since people asked it :


This is the pure mag enought str for the weapon other point to mag.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b8d196ef18d832d1

And here the LA build , 3 Mag 1 dext and 1 str
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f5c798a5383baed6

But remember that a lot of monsters do magical damage (and so do a lot of players).

Well when i will go against mag mobs , i can still switch to robe , and for player i don't really intend to go against fellow wiz nor cleric.
If it happens well against a wiz i will put my robe and say "u can kill me?" b:laugh
Cleric use both physical and mag attack if i go with pure robe against them they will plume me and archer will just stun and try to kill via auto attack.b:shocked

So like Ursa stated it LA seems to be the best way to tay alive , but i'm worried if i can kill enough fasterb:shocked

Ursa - Dreamweaver

first , you have the wrong buffs in those builds (Red Bubble no HP/Shards, and no cleric pdef buff) and since you don't have refines, pdef/HP discussion is out of order.
But to talk about the build:
Ring of the Naga is an extremely bad choice for lvl 90 ring. Exremely.
Tauran cape is just bad for a pure mag build. Helps on LA, but for pur mag, just a huge NONO
Hat is **** and expensive. Get something with 2x69 pdef and +80 HP. I've seen a lot of them on every server.
Boots...useless. Either get some 3* with better stats or the TT80 gold if you never plan on getting the 95 event ones.
Wraith is a poor choice for weapon as a wiz, expecially when pure. Go for either WoDF or if you have some extra cash, Aquadash.

Just as a reference, at 90 this was my build:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=983fcc8a8ceaa1f4

as you can see, I had a mix of Pdef/HP shards, at 95 with event gear I switched everything to HP.

X_noelle_x - Lost City

Hum i never said that would be my gear , i just wanted to see the difference in m.def p.def and dmg that would have a La and pure Mag with almost same gear except armor that's why there is no refine nor shard.b:surrender

Ursa - Dreamweaver

yeah, but pdef especially can benefit the pure. and after taking into consideration damage reduction the difference is actually smaller than the numbers shown.
6.4k pdef or 7.1k pdef might look like a huge diference, but it might get down to just a 2% damage reduction (I'm just pulling out numbers here to make a point). For a 2-3% decrease in phys dmg you receive it might not be worth giving up 30% in attk.
Considering the new blessings, you can switch the one from daily with the Jones and get an extra 30% dmg on pure or a 8% increase in def.
Going LA is from my point of view only viable on a pvp server if you lvl the old fashion way or if you want to save cash for +90.
Cause after 90 staying LA just makes no sense, and after 95 being anything else than pure or hybrid is a bad, bad choice.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

X_noelle_x - Lost City wrote: »

Here the links since people asked it :


This is the pure mag enought str for the weapon other point to mag.
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=b8d196ef18d832d1

And here the LA build , 3 Mag 1 dext and 1 str
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f5c798a5383baed6







Well when i will go against mag mobs , i can still switch to robe , and for player i don't really intend to go against fellow wiz nor cleric.
If it happens well against a wiz i will put my robe and say "u can kill me?" b:laugh
Cleric use both physical and mag attack if i go with pure robe against them they will plume me and archer will just stun and try to kill via auto attack.b:shocked

So like Ursa stated it LA seems to be the best way to tay alive , but i'm worried if i can kill enough fasterb:shocked

maybe try this 2

AA: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=88a2d58dd0c0819c
LA: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=79fc658b25c0b26c

Moobysnax - Lost City

I only know of 1 lvl 100 LA wizard on Lost City server. I can't quite remember his name... but he did go demon (probably the best route for LA wizard). His name was red almost always... so it couldn't have been that bad. I see plenty of Clerics go LA on Lost City. So try it out.. and use a lot of -channeling gear.

Acoi - Lost City

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yeah, but pdef especially can benefit the pure. and after taking into consideration damage reduction the difference is actually smaller than the numbers shown.
6.4k pdef or 7.1k pdef might look like a huge diference, but it might get down to just a 2% damage reduction (I'm just pulling out numbers here to make a point). For a 2-3% decrease in phys dmg you receive it might not be worth giving up 30% in attk.
Considering the new blessings, you can switch the one from daily with the Jones and get an extra 30% dmg on pure or a 8% increase in def.
Going LA is from my point of view only viable on a pvp server if you lvl the old fashion way or if you want to save cash for +90.
Cause after 90 staying LA just makes no sense, and after 95 being anything else than pure or hybrid is a bad, bad choice.

I agree totally with this. However what does every think is the best balance of damage reduction to have? because of the diminishing returns you need to find the right balance..also i dont rate hybrid builds. 10 hp per vit point?? doesnt seem worth it

Kokki - Harshlands

Moobysnax - Lost City wrote: »

I only know of 1 lvl 100 LA wizard on Lost City server. I can't quite remember his name... but he did go demon (probably the best route for LA wizard). His name was red almost always... so it couldn't have been that bad. I see plenty of Clerics go LA on Lost City. So try it out.. and use a lot of -channeling gear.

*goes out to silver pool*
*one shots everyone with gush that is white and 3x*

being red doesn't mean you are good.

La is very viable for -90
after that buffs make a huge difference in your gear, and you can even reach higher pdef then you have mdef

before 90 going LA is just cheap, no balancing build needed. shard full citrine, get a pdef neck + mdef belt, and equip weapon of your level. easy as that.


there is also like 1-2 LA wiz level 100 on harshlands. they have less mag attack, less mdef, less pdef, and only a little more HP then me, while we all have similar gear cost wise

@ acoi

vit is not "overrated"
i was VERY sceptikal about vit as well before i just tried it out and statted 50 vit. my mag attack went from 13K top end to 12.3K top end. and as you will know, most damage is from wep modifier, not magic attack.

btw, ty all those ( like ursa,amour and some other wizards) for letting my see the light.

in a PvP server it's a difference of 2 seconds survivability if you stat 50 vit, 2 seconds are VERY valuable if you consider you can escape in those two secs to let your charm tick.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Kokki - Harshlands wrote: »

i was VERY sceptikal about vit as well before i just tried it out and statted 50 vit. my mag attack went from 13K top end to 12.3K top end. and as you will know, most damage is from wep modifier, not magic attack.

For a pure build most damage comes from base magic attack.

base magic attack (unbuffed) = (mag/100 + 1) * weapon damage

So with 400 mag you would have 500% weapon damage for base magic attack. The only spell that does the same damage in weapon modifier is BIDS or MS. All others get more damage from base magic attack than weapon modifier.

And 50 vit is not much to sacrifice, it's only 500 HP.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

it's about 525 HP at least, but yeah, I wouldn't expect you to know that.

Kokki - Harshlands

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

For a pure build most damage comes from base magic attack.

base magic attack (unbuffed) = (mag/100 + 1) * weapon damage

So with 400 mag you would have 500% weapon damage for base magic attack. The only spell that does the same damage in weapon modifier is BIDS or MS. All others get more damage from base magic attack than weapon modifier.

And 50 vit is not much to sacrifice, it's only 500 HP.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

it's about 525 HP at least, but yeah, I wouldn't expect you to know that.

b:bye if ursa is picking on you must be very dumb lol

anyways, borsuc, you are on a PVE server, so even if you went into PK mode you would be a one shot to the higher level people, even with 50 added vit. ANY wizard get most damage from WEAPON MODIFIER and not base magic attack. how many times do you people wanna hear it from the experienced wizards that actually know about higher weapon refines then +5.

Also what ursa is trying to say ( in case you don't know ) is that any respectfull wizard has a sky demon's pearl or the TT90 gold necklace which adds +5% HP.

also with 50 vit aka 525 HP getting that buffed is 735 (sage buff )
BM's in TW deal less then that in 1 hit.........

Alimion - Sanctuary

I was LA in my server until 94, and ask any person there i was not a total pushover, in fact, between my crit rate/phys def..stealing aggro/DD/and tanking(except pole/garg.grrr) was all in a days work.

However this was not done easily or haphazardly, as one approaches LA in his/her 70's+ special care must be taken with the build.

to summarize in the end before i went arcane my stats were as follow(fully buffed):

12900 phys def

7k mag def

4500 hp(low i know)

a MAG about 20 points more then most LA(due to some savvy AH shopping for stat increase gear)

and 2 mag resist orns to switch when up against other spellchuckers.and maybe an arcane robe.

13% crit rate(worked awesome for me)

base mag att about 1500 less then a pure the same level

the ultras did about 3k less in pve.

i guess the destrying it before it gets to you didnt matter to me since thier damage didnt really hurt me. besides 1 crit and it was over anyway.

I think LA wiz should be created with a party buff in mind cuz then all the number reach a point where you can take a hit from anything. I was guided to this build by someone who was here when the game began and said this was "old school" LA thinking before all the cool endgame stuff made LA kinda irrelevant.

a refine +5 weapon will help normalize you damage but of course you can never match pure.

LA before 90 is viable

Alimion - Sanctuary

In fact i respectfully submit my lvl 95 LA design that i never did


http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=87f595f37347cf32

Adroit - Lost City

Alimion - Sanctuary wrote: »

In fact i respectfully submit my lvl 95 LA design that i never did


http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=87f595f37347cf32

lol one shot, I can't believe anybody would go LA on a wiz, and then put both pdef ornaments.. what a joke.

TheDan - Sanctuary

Fist Build b:sweat

Alimion - Sanctuary

OF course one shot, thats why i never did it, however, since i am not really a pk'er the one shot concept did not overtly factor into that build.

It seems that almost every thread/discussion will always have the obligatory "one shot" comment by the obligatory "one shot" master always 4 or more levels higher then someone else.

If a lvl 100 wiz could not one shot that build then the real problems is not with that build, but with yours.

It is almost like godwin's law, where eventually the conversation degrades down to "one-shot" instead of calling someone a **** lol.

Pro-tip: It's a game, you do what you like for reasons that are your own, my LA build or "one-shot" wonders have no real bearing when one walks out the door and must confront the real world.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Alimion - Sanctuary wrote: »

OF course one shot.

if somebody with robe ( and unbuffed) could be 1 shot too by magic, if was crit on you. so isnt big deal this 1shot thing.

fulgida

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

lol one shot, I can't believe anybody would go LA on a wiz, and then put both pdef ornaments.. what a joke.

I suspect you were not looking carefully, but he was wearing an elemental belt, and a +5% hp neck, both of which would probably have been better if he allowed himself a bigger budget.

Alimion - Sanctuary

try replacing belt/necklace with puzzle/void stuff and it gets kinda interesting, of course 15k phys def aint much better then 11k in reality.

And when i WAS LA i found that the balance of phys/mag helped me against clerics and their plume.

Currently putting together a Nirvana LA on the calc for S&G lol

Amencat - Sanctuary

i tried once my wizard as a LA build, and i can say, this was a complete catastrophe, you never will have enough dex for really good critical hits, and you will suck, couse you will die on every 3th mob, so do your self a favor and be a simple pure wiz

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Amencat - Sanctuary wrote: »

i tried once my wizard as a LA build, and i can say, this was a complete catastrophe, you never will have enough dex for really good critical hits, and you will suck, couse you will die on every 3th mob, so do your self a favor and be a simple pure wiz

you leveled your skills and used the current weapon? because i dont got problem with mobs with pure mag and heavy (but i just lv40) build.

Alimion - Sanctuary

Amencat - Sanctuary wrote: »

i tried once my wizard as a LA build, and i can say, this was a complete catastrophe, you never will have enough dex for really good critical hits, and you will suck, couse you will die on every 3th mob, so do your self a favor and be a simple pure wiz

I must respectfully disagree with that, unless every third mob was krimson/gargantokong/pole i never died, I died when the cleric healing could not fit"LA wizzy pulled aggro" into what he thought he knew about PWI/Wizzys.

if the MOB is not dead on third hit try FoW, It seems that having to use that spell may be a sign of weakness or something.

I would have to cast one xtra spell to hurt the mob, either after FoW or Whisper. Ask anyone who has quested with me and they will tell you how hard it was to kill me(unless you are a pure wizz/cleric lol)

As i said earlier LA is not just something "thrown" together maybe that is the real problem, something out of the norm requires out of the norm thinking.

Just saying for 94 levels of experience

sedzejevec

Hope it's not offtopic... but what shards are the best to put in ENDGAME gear for LA and which for pure build?

Sun_Burn - Lost City

sedzejevec wrote: »

Hope it's not offtopic... but what shards are the best to put in ENDGAME gear for LA and which for pure build?

long story short.. there is a reason why there are no end game LA wizzies.

Take the hint, the reason is because LA is garbage endgame (and many say its garbage the whole way).

+ sharding depends on your budget imo and refines.

I tried LA up til about 50 then finally restatted because i have never been that squishy.. takes too long to kill stuff, as you are pure mage you just demolish mobs before they even get close to you.

as for the physical defense part of the argument.. at endgame it doesnt really matter if your arcane or LA due to diminishing returns, so you might as well go arcane to max your damage at the small cost of losing a few physical damage protection %'s.

DaKillanator - Archosaur

>>IMO<<

the whole idea behind being a wizard is "Ima kill this thing before it kills me"

and by "kills me" I mean "hits me once" cuz they're basically the same thing.

believe me, LA is not the best endgame option. Go to the archer/sin forum section and EVERYONE there will attest to that. Yes LA looks good on paper, but in practice, it sucks.

Of course, LA usefulness during earlygame/midgame is debatable, but by 90+ you should defintly be aiming for AA. If your not like me, and can actually use the cashop, then LA until endgame could be an okay choice.

That is, of course, unless you think it might make it harder to get squads. Squads like wizards who will drop nuke after nuke, your LA doesnt make their lifes any easier. A wizard with LA is nothing better than a gimped psychic to most squads.

So until endgame its up to you:
LA- good for soloing quests, some better survivability.
AA- good for getting squads. You live by the moto, "what cant touch me cant hurt me!"

Good luckb:laugh

Alimion - Sanctuary

DaKillanator - Archosaur wrote: »

>>IMO<<

That is, of course, unless you think it might make it harder to get squads. Squads like wizards who will drop nuke after nuke, your LA doesnt make their lifes any easier. A wizard with LA is nothing better than a gimped psychic to most squads.

So until endgame its up to you:
LA- good for soloing quests, some better survivability.
AA- good for getting squads. You live by the moto, "what cant touch me cant hurt me!"

Good luckb:laugh

Again I must respectfully disagree, my whole 1-94 LA build was meant for squad action, I didn't have enough time in the day for all the squads i could be in.
I focused On getting the %13 crit rate and refining whatever weapon to +5, a well buffed squad with a Bm and cleric pushed all my defenses to highly acceptable if not awesome(phys) and the crit rate garanteed a pulled aggro or actually the same DPS as an arcane over the course of a boss or 5/6 mobs(actually asked fellow AA wizzy to write down their damage and average it out, as did I) 2 decently refined mag ornaments to switch at a whim and my mag resist was not too shabby.
At this point of the forum discussions on this matter, I swear i must have had a master of the game running an alt teach me how to be LA, because everything said here about it i never encountered, in fact 70-92 were some of the most awesome LA times of my gaming life.
I swear sometimes i must be the total exception to the rule.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

care to share?

I'm always open to learn about LA pre 95 ... even if it doesn't really help me now.
Out of the box thinking with careful gear selection might get some impressive results.