Tangling Mire or Extreme Poison?

Falcondance - Heavens Tear
Falcondance - Heavens Tear Posts: 699 Arc User
edited July 2010 in Archer
My genie's currently got level 10 Tangling Mire, which states that it reduces physical defense by 35%. However, I see it used really rarely by Archers, who use Extreme Poison to increase all damage taken by 20%. Is this just because then the entire party deals more damage instead of just the physical damage dealers, or is there something else I'm missing? Tangling Mire has 15% on Extreme Poison, after all.
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Post edited by Falcondance - Heavens Tear on

Comments

  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    35% less physical defense does not mean 35% more damage done. It's more complicated than that, due to the way defense works. What's more important is the damage reduction percentage, which is calculated by (Def/(Def+40*level)), with level being the level of the attacker.

    For example, Polearm has 3204 Physical Defense. That's a damage reduction of almost exactly 50% against level 80 attackers (3204/(3204+80*40) = 3204/6404).
    Reducing the defense by 35% results in 2082.6 Physical Defense, which is a 39.4% damage reduction.
    Going from 50% damage reduction to 39.4% damage reduction is about a 21% boost in damage (60.6/50 = 1.212).

    The lower the target's physical defense already is, the less of a damage increase Tangling Mire will produce. The higher a target's physical defense, the more of a damage boost Tangling Mire will give. Extreme Poison always gives the same boost, regardless. Also, Tangling Mire is AOE, which can be both a good thing and a bad thing, depending on the situation.

    Personally, I have and use both, often at the same time. They both use very little genie energy.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    EP = A direct 20% boost to all damage types
    EP doesn't cause as much graphical lag
    X% defense decrease does NOT translate into X% more damage taken (IE: decreasing someone's p.def by 50% won't necessarily man your damage will get doubled against them)
    EP boosts your damage even during a phys break where mire won't (makes for great spikes if you squad regularly with demon venos)
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Reducing physical defense by 35% typically does not increase damage taken by 35%. Mobs in city of abominations for example already have 0 physical defense and so tangling mire has no effect. Furthermore debuffs like that suffer a 50% pvp reduction and will only debuff 17.5% in pvp, counteracting less than one third of the cleric buff alone of a buffed opponent. Mire works alot better in pve, particularly if stacked with another pdef debuff (too bad archers have no pdef debuff skills). Given this, the 20% bonus from poison is pretty nice.
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  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    frenzy b:victory
  • Smobo - Heavens Tear
    Smobo - Heavens Tear Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    (too bad archers have no pdef debuff skills).

    Sage archers have the epic proness of a 30% (or 20%, ecatomb is giving me different numbers) pdef debuff for the low low price of 550 mana, 2 sparks, and child support payments. :o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • fulgida
    fulgida Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Smobo - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Sage archers have the epic proness of a 30% (or 20%, ecatomb is giving me different numbers) pdef debuff for the low low price of 550 mana, 2 sparks, and child support payments. :o

    Apparently that was a translation error.
  • Illyana - Dreamweaver
    Illyana - Dreamweaver Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    Smobo - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Sage archers have the epic proness of a 30% (or 20%, ecatomb is giving me different numbers) pdef debuff for the low low price of 550 mana, 2 sparks, and child support payments. :o

    Nope. We can only reduce the damage a target does by 20% for 30 sec.
    5.0 "Pure" 8jun Sage Clawrcher of Dreamweaver
  • Zhadi - Archosaur
    Zhadi - Archosaur Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited July 2010
    EP for all the reasons stated above and this one:
    We do both physical and magical attacks ^^ Mire will only benefit physical while EP benefits both <3

    Mire works wonders as well, I'm not putting it down (:

    I actually have both on my genie...

    However, tbh.. the only reason i use mire atm is to force sins out of stealth XD

    Edit: kossy had beaten me to my reason D: i didn't pay attention to the way he worded that
    QQ

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