Idea for stealth balancing
Fruitluips - Lost City
Posts: 190 Arc User
This is something I thought of yesterday, and I'd like to see what the (experienced) assassins as well as the rest of you think about it.
By now we've all experienced how stupidly powerful assassins are and how screwed you are if you can't tank the onslaught that happens as soon as the fish pops out of thin air and hits the **** button. My idea is this: Upon exiting stealth (manually), there is a damage reduction that lasts somewhere around 10 seconds. This isn't an attack level or physical attack reduction; the calculated damage is actually reduced by some percentage. This means the sin can still do all his mean tricks, but the other player may stand a chance.
A possible second idea is making a passive skill that, when leveled, gradually reduces the damage reduction time to 10 seconds or whatever. This could be a 29 or 34 skill since pking starts around then. This is just a random thought, though; the purpose of this thread is up there ^
Replies I've already predicted:
Assassin: stop qq about stealth l2play
Me: Stop appearing from nowhere and doing so much damage in one hit it doesn't even show up in my damage log
Assassin: qq this will make sins useless
Me: qq you can teleport stun from 35m away and totally immobilize someone and do massive damage to pretty much any class
By now we've all experienced how stupidly powerful assassins are and how screwed you are if you can't tank the onslaught that happens as soon as the fish pops out of thin air and hits the **** button. My idea is this: Upon exiting stealth (manually), there is a damage reduction that lasts somewhere around 10 seconds. This isn't an attack level or physical attack reduction; the calculated damage is actually reduced by some percentage. This means the sin can still do all his mean tricks, but the other player may stand a chance.
A possible second idea is making a passive skill that, when leveled, gradually reduces the damage reduction time to 10 seconds or whatever. This could be a 29 or 34 skill since pking starts around then. This is just a random thought, though; the purpose of this thread is up there ^
Replies I've already predicted:
Assassin: stop qq about stealth l2play
Me: Stop appearing from nowhere and doing so much damage in one hit it doesn't even show up in my damage log
Assassin: qq this will make sins useless
Me: qq you can teleport stun from 35m away and totally immobilize someone and do massive damage to pretty much any class
Post edited by Fruitluips - Lost City on
0
Comments
-
*Incoming flame(s) detected.*
b:shockeddarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Interesting...I could see a valid point in this but at the same time, there are ways around the unstealthing....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
Animals truly have good senses. I can sense flames heading this way as well. b:shockedMagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »*Incoming flame(s) detected.*
b:shocked
I hate to say it butt the devs obviously don't care about nerfing the Tideborn and you're lucky about the triple spark thing b:surrender0 -
While I don't agree, this is the most sensible option I have seen in a long time.~~Blood Red since 30~~0
-
Though probably a moot point, but that would kinda suck for PvE.If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.
Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.0 -
This crossed my mind. I wasn't sure what to do with PvE. I'm not experienced with sins, so I don't know if they need to sneak up on any mobs in particular. I know they need to sneak past them sometimes, but the time of reduced damage could probably be spent standing. It could be made to apply only to PvP? Good point, though.Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »Though probably a moot point, but that would kinda suck for PvE.
What do you not agree with? I'm most interested to hear what sins think.FinalFatex - Harshlands wrote:While I don't agree, this is the most sensible option I have seen in a long time.0 -
Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »Though probably a moot point, but that would kinda suck for PvE.
What kind of sucks for PvE is that sins can run through an entire dungeon to kill their boss without wining anything. Sure, it will probably hurt their charm/foods, but they can easily solo their bhs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Fruitluips - Lost City wrote: »What do you not agree with? I'm most interested to hear what sins think.
Ok, this is how I see it. First of all for your second thought; making it a passive skill will only make endgame sins slightly weaker and make lower lvl sins much worse. lvl 40-80 sins are not as overpowered as end game sins, at those lvls its not hard to be 1 shotted by many other classes. If lower lvls had say a 30 second dmg reduction and lvl 100s had a 10 second reduction it would cause a serious problem for lower lvl pvp and for pve.
For the whole point of nurfing dmg after stealth, this is the only protection low (85 and lower) sins have. The majority of sins are pure dex bause other builds are not viable. We have super low health and defence and magic resistance most of the game and due to that it is VERY easy for casters to 1 or 2 shot us before we can get anywhere close to them. This is no different than what we do with stealth.
I do not see a difference between an archer or veno sneaking up on me while i'm doing something and stunning/1 or 2 shotting while i'm still stunned. We stealth up stun and 1 or 2 shot other classes just like they can do to us. Just because we sometimes see the other classes coming does not mean we can do anything about it.
The other matter is HA players. We have serious problems against HA players. I cant say as for 95+ where I hear it gets better but lower than that any decent HA player will destroy us and nurfing our stealth against them will only make it much worse.
Now this is why I think stealth is not over powered. Stealth has its drawbacks remember, it takes mana every second we are in it and to compensate for this we need to buy skills that lower the effect that could be used getting much needed dmg skills, I have never met a sin lower then 80 who was not seriously spirit starved. secondly some sins (like me) get armor that has +mana regen on it causing us to loose several armor slots for much better armor making iu weaker. If a sin does not use this + regen then he will prob go into a fight already having a pot used or with low mana and possibly run out of it before the end.
Lastly there is TW pvp, many factions do not really care for sins in TW because the vast majority of other classes are more useful. Adding this nurf will only make sins less wanted in TW and once again cause problems.
~~Blood Red since 30~~0 -
Sanctam - Dreamweaver wrote: »What kind of sucks for PvE is that sins can run through an entire dungeon to kill their boss without wining anything. Sure, it will probably hurt their charm/foods, but they can easily solo their bhs.
This is only true 90+ no sin under lvl 90 can solo their BH's unless they have seriously +9 or higher refined gear. Now on the other hand my veno who is 9x soloed ALL her Bh's from lvl 30-80 then soloed some of her BH'es 80+.~~Blood Red since 30~~0 -
FinalFatex - Harshlands wrote: »
Ok, this is how I see it. First of all for your second thought; making it a passive skill will only make endgame sins slightly weaker and make lower lvl sins much worse. lvl 40-80 sins are not as overpowered as end game sins, at those lvls its not hard to be 1 shotted by many other classes. If lower lvls had say a 30 second dmg reduction and lvl 100s had a 10 second reduction it would cause a serious problem for lower lvl pvp and for pve. Shadow jump, learned first at level 29. Gets to a pretty nice range of 25.5 meter at level 59, could be effective starting as early as level 49 with 22.5 meter due to the fact that it be instant cast. (and don't complain, archers fight without the survivability of sins. This makes you stronger than archers.
For the whole point of nurfing dmg after stealth, this is the only protection low (85 and lower) sins have. The majority of sins are pure dex bause other builds are not viable. We have super low health and defence and magic resistance most of the game and due to that it is VERY easy for casters to 1 or 2 shot us before we can get anywhere close to them. This is no different than what we do with stealth. Just nerf battle stealth. Also it be VERY hard for a caster to cast anything in 0.00 seconds. (again, instant cast teleport especially Shadow Teleport which stuns the target for 3 seconds as well. So removal of stealth completely will still give sins the 1st shot advantage. (Mages has no instant cast long range skill (only instant cast "offensive" skill be the wizzy sleep which has a 20 m range....) archers can normal shot that far, but they can't cast their own stun or anything to do much about it. (and archers will just suffer 1/2 damage reduction after they get off like 1-2 shots. Now clerics mayhaps could get their sleep off in time...except their range maxes at 28 meters (at sage/demon level...) so again insta stun teleport will work.
I do not see a difference between an archer or veno sneaking up on me while i'm doing something and stunning/1 or 2 shotting while i'm still stunned. Well, me has never had an archer or veno manage to buff up, check my equipment, triple spark, then attack me all while me was completely unaware because he/she managed to sneak up on me. We stealth up then double spark, buff, etc stun and 1 or 2 shot other classes just like they can do to us. and force stealth away if the 1-2 shot fails. Only to come back after cooldowns are over. Just because we sometimes see the other classes coming does not mean we can do anything about it.
The other matter is HA players. We have serious problems against HA players.As a class, you don't just stack -int gear. I cant say as for 95+ where I hear it gets better but lower than that any decent HA player will destroy us and nurfing our stealth against them will only make it much worse.
Now this is why I think stealth is not over powered. In it's current form, yes it be overpowered. Stealth has its drawbacks remember, it takes mana every second Mana be ridiculously cheap, even a few BMs and barbs me know get the event mp pots. Also Stealthing overall replenishes mana if the sin just pops one +mana regen over time apoc pot. we are in it and to compensate for this we need to buy skills Bad argument here, all classes have to buy skills...... that lower the effect that could be used getting much needed dmg skills and me sure that all other classes can skimp out on survival skills and can get only attack skills...*cough looks at stone barrier cough*, I have never met a sin lower then 80 who was not seriously spirit starved. Happens to all classes now because pretty much all people just power level.....except me since me actually bothered to quest/grind and still have about 14 mil spirit. secondly some sins (like me) get armor that has +mana regen ....you be a fail sin. x.x' on it causing us to loose several armor slots for much better armor making iu weaker. If a sin does not use this + regen then he will prob go into a fight already having a pot used or with low mana and possibly run out of it before the end.
Lastly there is TW pvp, many factions do not really care for sins in TW because the vast majority of other classes are more useful. Adding this nurf will only make sins less wanted in TW and once again cause problems.
b:byedarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Hamsta pretty much said anything I could have said and then some.
We can forget the passive skill idea. It was just a thought. I've not had much experience with equal leveled sins before 8x, so I don't know how much it'd affect them then.
I think you are forgetting how quickly and easily sins can kill things. Like Hamsta said, you have close to 0 channeling on pretty much anything that hurts. Yeah, a cleric or wizard could 1 or 2 shot you, but you could one shot the cleric or wizard a few times over before the channeling is done. If you feel like slipping back into stealth while the caster is channeling, target lost. The reason PvP with other classes is "fair" (term used loosely) is because you can prepare for it. If you're a squishy fighting a sin, or even not fighting a sin, you can see the "release corpse" button within about two seconds at any moment if he goes into stealth. If you're not squishy, you better hope you have a ton of HP because sins hurt.0 -
You know, I would not agree here, but also, stealth have to be knocked out of every single spark burst as well.
-Stealth deals with shadows, the darkness, spark deals with the light. Does do they mix? No. They don't. Every single spark burst (including spark burst one) should break stealth.
-Cooldown starts once assassin gets out of stealth
But there are cheap shotting ways from every class. Overpowered warsoul weapons. Instead of people one shotting each other or doing insane damage in PVE thanks to too much attack levels. Best thing to do is to only keep the statistics that work for all classes and change around the buffs for TB.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »
-Stealth deals with shadows, the darkness, spark deals with the light. Does do they mix? No. They don't. Every single spark burst (including spark burst one) should break stealth.
-Cooldown starts once assassin gets out of stealth
According to your logic, since stealth is "dark" by nature, I should be able to demon spark in stealth, since it is also "dark"? Doesn't make much sense does it? This is pure speculation on your part.
Here's the description for Shadow Walk.
Shadow Walk
Mana 20
Channel 0.7 seconds
Cast 2.8 seconds
Cooldown 6.0 seconds
Weapon Daggers
Requisite Cultivation Spiritual Adept
Enter stealth mode.
Increases your Stealth Level by 1.
Enemies with an Awareness Level lower than your Stealth Level can not see you.
Costs 24 mana per second.
Only usable when out of combat.
Now here's the definition for "stealth".–noun
1. secret, clandestine, or surreptitious procedure.
-adj
1. Having or providing the ability to prevent detection by radar
Notice how Shadow Walk does not explicitly associate itself with darkness, and neither does stealth. Shadows are only occur because of an interception of light. If there was no light, one could argue there is no shadow because there is no interception of light. And in that sense, they are as you put "mixed". Also, there is nothing that says sparks are inherently "light" in nature. This is an assumption, and a rather outlandish one, on your part. Therefore, your reason for why sparking should reveal oneself from stealth is woefully insufficient and lacking in strength.
While people may agree sparking no matter which spark should knock sins out of stealth, it certainly should not be because of this unfounded and unsupported reason.0 -
Ok, this is how I see it. First of all for your second thought; making it a passive skill will only make endgame sins slightly weaker and make lower lvl sins much worse. lvl 40-80 sins are not as overpowered as end game sins, at those lvls its not hard to be 1 shotted by many other classes. If lower lvls had say a 30 second dmg reduction and lvl 100s had a 10 second reduction it would cause a serious problem for lower lvl pvp and for pve.Shadow jump, learned first at level 29. Gets to a pretty nice range of 25.5 meter at level 59, could be effective starting as early as level 49 with 22.5 meter due to the fact that it be instant cast. (and don't complain, archers fight without the survivability of sins. This makes you stronger than archers.
1. We can not afford shadow jump at these low lvls, lvl 1 has to do or we can not get our other skills that are absolutely needed. Secondly I'm not sure if you have a sun but shadow jump is a littly buggy if the target is moving. If you jump to a target that is running you will land where they were when you cast it and by the time you get there and get control back they can be sever feet away making it kinda useless. This is prob why shadow teleport was created because the devs saw this problem of a laggy backed server and decided to fix it. Thirdly archers can range stun at those lvls we can not, they can kite we can not, they can kill from a far. Sins are then only melee class that is not HA and because of this we can not just run in all the time blades swinging.
For the whole point of nurfing dmg after stealth, this is the only protection low (85 and lower) sins have. The majority of sins are pure dex bause other builds are not viable. We have super low health and defence and magic resistance most of the game and due to that it is VERY easy for casters to 1 or 2 shot us before we can get anywhere close to them. This is no different than what we do with stealth.Just nerf battle stealth. Also it be VERY hard for a caster to cast anything in 0.00 seconds. (again, instant cast teleport especially Shadow Teleport which stuns the target for 3 seconds as well. So removal of stealth completely will still give sins the 1st shot advantage. (Mages has no instant cast long range skill (only instant cast "offensive" skill be the wizzy sleep which has a 20 m range....) archers can normal shot that far, but they can't cast their own stun or anything to do much about it. (and archers will just suffer 1/2 damage reduction after they get off like 1-2 shots. Now clerics mayhaps could get their sleep off in time...except their range maxes at 28 meters (at sage/demon level...) so again insta stun teleport will work. Casters don't need to cast anything in 0.00 seconds, say a caster or archer takes 3 seconds to stun you. If you are not paying 100% attention and know its coming you are not likely to be able to react in that time. Now im not talking about duel circumstances here, im talking about random world pvp when you do not see it coming. Lets say a caster fly's up to my while i'm on the ground he can stun me from flight where I can not teleport to him and then he can drop to ground and start nuking whereby I still cant do anything.
I do not see a difference between an archer or veno sneaking up on me while i'm doing something and stunning/1 or 2 shotting while i'm still stunned.Well, me has never had an archer or veno manage to buff up, check my equipment, triple spark, then attack me all while me was completely unaware because he/she managed to sneak up on me.We stealth up then double spark, buff, etc stun and 1 or 2 shot other classes just like they can do to us.
and force stealth away if the 1-2 shot fails. Only to come back after cooldowns are over.Just because we sometimes see the other classes coming does not mean we can do anything about it.The other matter is HA players. We have serious problems against HA players.As a class, you don't just stack -int gear. I cant say as for 95+ where I hear it gets better but lower than that any decent HA player will destroy us and nurfing our stealth against them will only make it much worse. Again I am talking about random world PKing here and organized pvp/dueling/TW is much different but I am red all the time. White names attack me quite a bit and I do not know they are going to attack me so they have plenty of time to check my gear (which only complete wusses do) and buff before surprise white attack pwnage comes may way. Sure if a red name comes that close I have a good idea of whats going down but white names are very unpredictable. I will agree with you that force stealth is dumb and I never use it unless i get ganked.
Now this is why I think stealth is not over powered. In it's current form, yes it be overpowered. Stealth has its drawbacks remember, it takes mana every second Mana be ridiculously cheap, even a few BMs and barbs me know get the event mp pots. Also Stealthing overall replenishes mana if the sin just pops one +mana regen over time apoc pot. we are in it and to compensate for this we need to buy skills Bad argument here, all classes have to buy skills...... that lower the effect that could be used getting much needed dmg skills and me sure that all other classes can skimp out on survival skills and can get only attack skills...*cough looks at stone barrier cough*, I have never met a sin lower then 80 who was not seriously spirit starved. Happens to all classes now because pretty much all people just power level.....except me since me actually bothered to quest/grind and still have about 14 mil spirit. secondly some sins (like me) get armor that has +mana regen ....you be a fail sin. x.x' on it causing us to loose several armor slots for much better armor making iu weaker. If a sin does not use this + regen then he will prob go into a fight already having a pot used or with low mana and possibly run out of it before the end. Sure mana pots are cheep but with pots any class can be godly. If a veno uses a fast cast pot then uses a pot to stop immobilization then uses her 79 skill to become invincible for 15 seconds what the hell is anything supposed to do? Fight only last long enough to use one pot maybe, ok a spirit charm can fix all of this I agree but that is a bit overkill. As for skill starving I have 3 lvl 85s-95s and I have never been this spirit starved or even close, I for the longest time did not have even 1/2 the skills I wanted and I have never seen it this bad for other classes. Finally if you want to call me a bad sin because I use Mana regen... I have been red since 30, I am not in a faction I am on most of the servers KOS lists and I have many people out to get me. If I am not stealth's when I am out in the world I am dead because several 95+ people are sticking sharp objects in my back, its as simple as that. With no mana charm or + mana regen I can not stay stealth for more then 45 seconds
Lastly there is TW pvp, many factions do not really care for sins in TW because the vast majority of other classes are more useful. Adding this nurf will only make sins less wanted in TW and once again cause problems.~~Blood Red since 30~~0 -
FinalFatex - Harshlands wrote: »Ok, this is how I see it. First of all for your second thought; making it a passive skill will only make endgame sins slightly weaker and make lower lvl sins much worse. lvl 40-80 sins are not as overpowered as end game sins, at those lvls its not hard to be 1 shotted by many other classes. If lower lvls had say a 30 second dmg reduction and lvl 100s had a 10 second reduction it would cause a serious problem for lower lvl pvp and for pve.Shadow jump, learned first at level 29. Gets to a pretty nice range of 25.5 meter at level 59, could be effective starting as early as level 49 with 22.5 meter due to the fact that it be instant cast. (and don't complain, archers fight without the survivability of sins. This makes you stronger than archers.
1. We can not afford shadow jump at these low lvls, lvl 1 has to do or we can not get our other skills that are absolutely needed. Secondly I'm not sure if you have a sun but shadow jump is a littly buggy if the target is moving. If you jump to a target that is running you will land where they were when you cast it and by the time you get there and get control back they can be sever feet away making it kinda useless. This is prob why shadow teleport was created because the devs saw this problem of a laggy backed server and decided to fix it. Thirdly archers can range stun at those lvls we can not, they can kite we can not, they can kill from a far. Sins are then only melee class that is not HA and because of this we can not just run in all the time blades swinging.To begin with, just because you suck at getting monies and spirit doesn't mean that the class should be overpowered and affordable for everyone. Who do you mean by "We" other than yourself? Me myself had little to no problem with affording skills. (well except when me started getting sage skills.) 2nd, You has no idea how to code anything at all....your stupidity be showing, it be possible to code skills to cast their effect after the channeling/cast is done... >.>' The sin will still end up next to the target. (and me know the developers coded it properly as animation effects of skills like Pyrogram FOLLOWS THE TARGET. 3rd. Archers can't stealth at those levels.....GASP actually, all other classes can't so they should grant stealth to all classes....srsly your arguments be pathetic. Also yes shadow teleport & headhunt stuns....and is learned at level 59.
For the whole point of nurfing dmg after stealth, this is the only protection low (85 and lower) sins have. The majority of sins are pure dex bause other builds are not viable. We have super low health and defence and magic resistance most of the game and due to that it is VERY easy for casters to 1 or 2 shot us before we can get anywhere close to them. This is no different than what we do with stealth.Just nerf battle stealth. Also it be VERY hard for a caster to cast anything in 0.00 seconds. (again, instant cast teleport especially Shadow Teleport which stuns the target for 3 seconds as well. So removal of stealth completely will still give sins the 1st shot advantage. (Mages has no instant cast long range skill (only instant cast "offensive" skill be the wizzy sleep which has a 20 m range....) archers can normal shot that far, but they can't cast their own stun or anything to do much about it. (and archers will just suffer 1/2 damage reduction after they get off like 1-2 shots. Now clerics mayhaps could get their sleep off in time...except their range maxes at 28 meters (at sage/demon level...) so again insta stun teleport will work. Casters don't need to cast anything in 0.00 seconds, say a caster or archer takes 3 seconds to stun you. If you are not paying 100% attention and know its coming you are not likely to be able to react in that time. Now im not talking about duel circumstances here, im talking about random world pvp when you do not see it coming. Lets say a caster fly's up to my while i'm on the ground he can stun me from flight where I can not teleport to him and then he can drop to ground and start nuking whereby I still cant do anything. Me find it amusing you be in a pvp server and apparently don't know how to use the minimap & T key.
I do not see a difference between an archer or veno sneaking up on me while i'm doing something and stunning/1 or 2 shotting while i'm still stunned.Well, me has never had an archer or veno manage to buff up, check my equipment, triple spark, then attack me all while me was completely unaware because he/she managed to sneak up on me.We stealth up then double spark, buff, etc stun and 1 or 2 shot other classes just like they can do to us.
and force stealth away if the 1-2 shot fails. Only to come back after cooldowns are over.Just because we sometimes see the other classes coming does not mean we can do anything about it.The other matter is HA players. We have serious problems against HA players.As a class, you don't just stack -int gear. I cant say as for 95+ where I hear it gets better but lower than that any decent HA player will destroy us and nurfing our stealth against them will only make it much worse. Again I am talking about random world PKing here and organized pvp/dueling/TW is much different but I am red all the time. White names attack me quite a bit and I do not know they are going to attack me so they have plenty of time to check my gear (which only complete wusses do) and buff before surprise white attack pwnage comes may way. Sure if a red name comes that close I have a good idea of whats going down but white names are very unpredictable. I will agree with you that force stealth is dumb and I never use it unless i get ganked. Excellent, we has another vote to at least do something about battle stealth.
Now this is why I think stealth is not over powered. In it's current form, yes it be overpowered. Stealth has its drawbacks remember, it takes mana every second Mana be ridiculously cheap, even a few BMs and barbs me know get the event mp pots. Also Stealthing overall replenishes mana if the sin just pops one +mana regen over time apoc pot. we are in it and to compensate for this we need to buy skills Bad argument here, all classes have to buy skills...... that lower the effect that could be used getting much needed dmg skills and me sure that all other classes can skimp out on survival skills and can get only attack skills...*cough looks at stone barrier cough*, I have never met a sin lower then 80 who was not seriously spirit starved. Happens to all classes now because pretty much all people just power level.....except me since me actually bothered to quest/grind and still have about 14 mil spirit. secondly some sins (like me) get armor that has +mana regen ....you be a fail sin. x.x' on it causing us to loose several armor slots for much better armor making iu weaker. If a sin does not use this + regen then he will prob go into a fight already having a pot used or with low mana and possibly run out of it before the end. Sure mana pots are cheep but with pots any class can be godly. If a veno uses a fast cast pot then uses a pot to stop immobilization then uses her 79 skill to become invincible for 15 seconds what the hell is anything supposed to do? Fight only last long enough to use one pot maybe, ok a spirit charm can fix all of this I agree but that is a bit overkill. As for skill starving I have 3 lvl 85s-95s and I have never been this spirit starved or even close, I for the longest time did not have even 1/2 the skills I wanted and I have never seen it this bad for other classes. Finally if you want to call me a bad sin because I use Mana regen... I have been red since 30, I am not in a faction I am on most of the servers KOS lists and I have many people out to get me. If I am not stealth's when I am out in the world I am dead because several 95+ people are sticking sharp objects in my back, its as simple as that. With no mana charm or + mana regen I can not stay stealth for more then 45 seconds Ignoring the uselessness, availability, and cost of the detection pots to begin with, why does every other class have to lose their pot bonus to even try to detect a sin (And only for 15 seconds with a 3 minute cooldown)..... Also you be spirit starved because you probably leveled through triple bh and hyper frost....Me actually did quite a bit of zhen sessions on me wizzy which actually gave me quite a bit of excess spirit.
Lastly there is TW pvp, many factions do not really care for sins in TW because the vast majority of other classes are more useful. Adding this nurf will only make sins less wanted in TW and once again cause problems. Many factions don't care for sins because they be rather new compared to the other classes which mean most be low level and/or undergeared. (There be quite a few sins in the stronger factions in LC since people rich enough just made sin alts, power leveled, and geared up.
b:byedarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »archers can normal shot that far, but they can't cast their own stun or anything to do much about it
Yes, they can indeed stun, and a sage archer with a +2 range bow can stun someone 36m away, though they might need an apothecary to do their stun without channelling time.
b:chuckle0 -
Yes, they can indeed stun, and a sage archer with a +2 range bow can stun someone 36m away, though they might need an apothecary to do their stun without channelling time.
b:chuckle
There still be cast time. b:avoid
Me has yet to meet an archer that even carries around the no channeling pot.
Also, the sin can still run the....1 meter and just instant teleport and the archer needs to get a +2 range bow and pop the pot near instantly and hope there be little to no delay to begin with.
x.x'darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
To begin with, just because you suck at getting monies and spirit doesn't mean that the class should be overpowered and affordable for everyone. Who do you mean by "We" other than yourself? Me myself had little to no problem with affording skills. (well except when me started getting sage skills.) 2nd, You has no idea how to code anything at all....your stupidity be showing, it be possible to code skills to cast their effect after the channeling/cast is done... >.>' The sin will still end up next to the target. (and me know the developers coded it properly as animation effects of skills like Pyrogram FOLLOWS THE TARGET. 3rd. Archers can't stealth at those levels.....GASP actually, all other classes can't so they should grant stealth to all classes....srsly your arguments be pathetic. Also yes shadow teleport & headhunt stuns....and is learned at level 59.
When I say we, I mean Sins in general. I PVP and talk to 10-15 sins on a regular basis from 70-100 and not a single one of them has said that they can afford to get survivability skills until lvl 92, and I have heard the 92 from several sins as when you can actually afford the spirit. Also do you have a sin? if so what lvl is your sin and have you used shadow jump? Also im quite sure my coding skills are much better then yours and I fully understand how the devs have programmed the skills.
Me find it amusing you be in a pvp server and apparently don't know how to use the minimap & T key.What does the T key and mini map have anything to do with this? If I am fighting mobs with other classes around it is useless except looking for other red players because I dont know who is going to attack me or when. If i am sitting at Hidden Orchid or Silverpool waiting for PVP and there are lots of people around how will this help me from knowing when somone will decide to get the first shot?
~~Blood Red since 30~~0 -
Me find it amusing you be in a pvp server and apparently don't know how to use the minimap & T key.What does the T key and mini map have anything to do with this? If I am fighting mobs with other classes around it is useless except looking for other red players because I dont know who is going to attack me or when. If i am sitting at Hidden Orchid or Silverpool waiting for PVP and there are lots of people around how will this help me from knowing when somone will decide to get the first shot?
Hit T.
Check for red names.
See red name flying towards you.
Hit stealth.
Conflict avoided.
Let's face it. Being a sin always gives you the first hit, which is a huge advantage. The kicker being that if the sin is getting *****, all they have to do is force stealth, wait until all their **** is done cooling down, and then try again.0 -
Hit T.
Check for red names.
See red name flying towards you.
Hit stealth.
Conflict avoided.
Good job, you just restated what was said one post above you. And your rehash completely overlooks white names who you don't expect to attack you.Let's face it. Being a sin always gives you the first hit, which is a huge advantage. The kicker being that if the sin is getting *****, all they have to do is force stealth, wait until all their **** is done cooling down, and then try again.
Yes I agree its a large advantage, what i'm saying is that without this advantage sins would not be nearly as viable for PVP and would be seriously underpowered.~~Blood Red since 30~~0 -
FinalFatex - Harshlands wrote: »
Good job, you just restated what was said one post above you. And your rehash completely overlooks white names who you don't expect to attack you.
Yes I agree its a large advantage, what i'm saying is that without this advantage sins would not be nearly as viable for PVP and would be seriously underpowered.
Okay, allow me to rephrase.
See someone coming towards you.
Go stealth.
Conflict avoided.
Secondly, I'm not voting for the removal of shadow walk. I agree, removing that would be stupid. But how would the removal of forcing stealth make sins seriously underpowered? You still always get the first hit. You still have that skill which revives you. You still have a chance to avoid skills, things like stun. I don't see how being unable to force stealth in the middle of getting owned makes you underpowered. That's how it's like for every class. When you're getting owned...you either try to run away or you get owned. You don't just disappear and try again at your own liesure.0 -
Okay, allow me to rephrase.
See someone coming towards you.
Go stealth.
Conflict avoided.
Secondly, I'm not voting for the removal of shadow walk. I agree, removing that would be stupid. But how would the removal of forcing stealth make sins seriously underpowered? You still always get the first hit. You still have that skill which revives you. You still have a chance to avoid skills, things like stun. I don't see how being unable to force stealth in the middle of getting owned makes you underpowered. That's how it's like for every class. When you're getting owned...you either try to run away or you get owned. You don't just disappear and try again at your own leisure.
The point is that sins can not just stealth if a green blip appears on our mini map, it is not at all realistic to do that.
And quite a few people on these forums are saying that sin's should have no stealth at all. I will agree that force stealth may not be needed and hence is why I do not use it.~~Blood Red since 30~~0 -
There is nothing wrong with the stealth skill itself. The issue is in the ways players abuse it.
My idea is that everything you do, other than move or using items, brings you out of stealth, which it should anyway. It makes no sense to be able to spark, which is a huge burst of light, yet still remain hidden for example.0 -
FinalFatex - Harshlands wrote: »To begin with, just because you suck at getting monies and spirit doesn't mean that the class should be overpowered and affordable for everyone. Who do you mean by "We" other than yourself? Me myself had little to no problem with affording skills. (well except when me started getting sage skills.) 2nd, You has no idea how to code anything at all....your stupidity be showing, it be possible to code skills to cast their effect after the channeling/cast is done... >.>' The sin will still end up next to the target. (and me know the developers coded it properly as animation effects of skills like Pyrogram FOLLOWS THE TARGET. 3rd. Archers can't stealth at those levels.....GASP actually, all other classes can't so they should grant stealth to all classes....srsly your arguments be pathetic. Also yes shadow teleport & headhunt stuns....and is learned at level 59.
When I say we, I mean Sins in general. I PVP and talk to 10-15 sins on a regular basis from 70-100 and not a single one of them has said that they can afford to get survivability skills until lvl 92, and I have heard the 92 from several sins as when you can actually afford the spirit. Also do you have a sin? if so what lvl is your sin and have you used shadow jump? Also im quite sure my coding skills are much better then yours and I fully understand how the devs have programmed the skills. *cough, me know sins in game (most from 60-90) mayhaps lots of sins in harshland don't know how to grind or you just hang around with people who happen to be about as poor as you...the sins me know/met all have stealth, deaden nerve, and focused mind....zmog they just proved you wrong as those three be considered survival skills.
Me find it amusing you be in a pvp server and apparently don't know how to use the minimap & T key.What does the T key and mini map have anything to do with this? If I am fighting mobs with other classes around it is useless except looking for other red players because I dont know who is going to attack me or when. If i am sitting at Hidden Orchid or Silverpool waiting for PVP and there are lots of people around how will this help me from knowing when somone will decide to get the first shot? Well me know you be poor and all, but there be decently geared and competent sins that start off stealthed and just camp around meaning they'll always get the 1st shot. All they need to do is pop a mp regen apoc pot.
b:surrenderdarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Has anyone else noticed that every sin that argues their class isn't OP or that stealth isn't broken never actually has any valid points or a solid argument? b:question0
-
stealth is a half taught idea, because it makes no sense that a lv 96 cant see a lv 71 assasin
thats QUITE a large lv gap, we should be able to increase our detection lv, by blessings etc,
and i do knows sins who actually have a combo and it works 8 out of 10 times[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Tempest FTWb:bye0 -
Hamsta, what does grinding have to do with getting more spirit? Unless you die tons, spirit is always 1/5 of exp in ratio, except for cultivation quests.
However I do find the argument "I can't buy skills" absolutely pathetic. FinalFatex do you seriously think you are the only class who can't buy skills if you rush to level? Why don't you dump exp into a genie to get it to same level as you (actually I have two genies) so you get more spirit per levels?
Are you saying that sins should have "the cheap way" to beat others who actually farmed spirit and dumped exp, simply because you don't want to? Sins are know as a "cheap class" for a reason, a poorly skilled or poorly geared sin wants to beat people with better skills/spirit and gear. And you call it "not overpowered" sheesh.0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Hamsta, what does grinding have to do with getting more spirit? Unless you die tons, spirit is always 1/5 of exp in ratio, except for cultivation quests.
However I do find the argument "I can't buy skills" absolutely pathetic. FinalFatex do you seriously think you are the only class who can't buy skills if you rush to level? Why don't you dump exp into a genie to get it to same level as you (actually I have two genies) so you get more spirit per levels?
Are you saying that sins should have "the cheap way" to beat others who actually farmed spirit and dumped exp, simply because you don't want to? Sins are know as a "cheap class" for a reason, a poorly skilled or poorly geared sin wants to beat people with better skills/spirit and gear. And you call it "not overpowered" sheesh.
Ok what I am saying is... I have 4 characters 75-95, 3 of them I had no problem with getting spirit for what I needed. Only the assassin was a serious problem for me. I do not know why this happened but it did. I have talked to many other people about it and most sins say they are in the same boat as me with spirit and that they have had the feeling of much more on their non sin mains or alts. That is what I am saying.
As for the overpowered fact, Ok I will admin I can beat LA's and AA's 15 lvls higher then me with not much problem. BUT if they get the first attack off I am utterly screwed beyond belief this is what i'm trying to say. For a sin you really have to get the first few hits or you life becomes unbelievably hard.
I will also state that no one has the write to make up their mind about exactly how sins work unless they have a 50+ sin because I see people making comments all the time that are just plain false and if that individual had ever played this class would know how wrong they are.~~Blood Red since 30~~0 -
FinalFatex - Harshlands wrote: »Ok what I am saying is... I have 4 characters 75-95, 3 of them I had no problem with getting spirit for what I needed. Only the assassin was a serious problem for me. I do not know why this happened but it did. I have talked to many other people about it and most sins say they are in the same boat as me with spirit and that they have had the feeling of much more on their non sin mains or alts. That is what I am saying.
This is irrelevant. Every class has trouble with spirit, especially if you power level. Whether or not it's harder for Assassins to get spirit for skills doesn't really matter.
As for the overpowered fact, Ok I will admin I can beat LA's and AA's 15 lvls higher then me with not much problem. BUT if they get the first attack off I am utterly screwed beyond belief this is what i'm trying to say. For a sin you really have to get the first few hits or you life becomes unbelievably hard.
So let me get this straight... when someone hits an Assassin first the Assassin can't force stealth, teleport stun, or use a genie skill in retaliation? Oh.. wait, what about Deaden Nerves? With that up even if somebody one shots you you'd still have the ability to fight back. Just because someone else gets the first shot doesn't mean you can't fight back and using that as an excuse for losing or having a hard time just shows you have no clue how to play your class properly.
I will also state that no one has the write to make up their mind about exactly how sins work unless they have a 50+ sin because I see people making comments all the time that are just plain false and if that individual had ever played this class would know how wrong they are.
*sigh* So.. even though I've seen what 'sins can do, actually fought them, I don't get to comment about what they can do? If someone knows about a class, even if they don't actually play it they should be able to discuss it. Oh, by the way... you used the wrong version of "right" :O
Responses in red.0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »Hamsta, what does grinding have to do with getting more spirit? Unless you die tons, spirit is always 1/5 of exp in ratio, except for cultivation quests.
However I do find the argument "I can't buy skills" absolutely pathetic. FinalFatex do you seriously think you are the only class who can't buy skills if you rush to level? Why don't you dump exp into a genie to get it to same level as you (actually I have two genies) so you get more spirit per levels?
Are you saying that sins should have "the cheap way" to beat others who actually farmed spirit and dumped exp, simply because you don't want to? Sins are know as a "cheap class" for a reason, a poorly skilled or poorly geared sin wants to beat people with better skills/spirit and gear. And you call it "not overpowered" sheesh.
After doing the BH, WQ, etc.
b:avoid
Frost be pretty much just grinding mobs for exp/spirit.
b:avoiddarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
Categories
- All Categories
- 181.9K PWI
- 699 Official Announcements
- 2 Rules of Conduct
- 264 Cabbage Patch Notes
- 61.1K General Discussion
- 1.5K Quality Corner
- 11.1K Suggestion Box
- 77.4K Archosaur City
- 3.5K Cash Shop Huddle
- 14.3K Server Symposium
- 18.1K Dungeons & Tactics
- 2K The Crafting Nook
- 4.9K Guild Banter
- 6.6K The Trading Post
- 28K Class Discussion
- 1.9K Arigora Colosseum
- 78 TW & Cross Server Battles
- 337 Nation Wars
- 8.2K Off-Topic Discussion
- 3.7K The Fanatics Forum
- 207 Screenshots and Videos
- 22.8K Support Desk