End Game Archers
Rubix - Harshlands
Posts: 130 Arc User
Anytime when Im pking and I come across a 9x or 10x archer, they normally get owned pretty fast, I was really just wandering if with good refined gear and if a person knows to play the class, are 10x archers any good, or would the refines be better put to use for another class.
I have nothing to say.
Post edited by Rubix - Harshlands on
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Speaking on my own exp in LC with my barb i say yes if they get that lunar debuff bow we barbs are screwed cause if the debuff works there goes our hp and dmg with poison and titans, and they can kill us fast....0
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Tivas - Archosaur wrote: »Speaking on my own exp in LC with my barb i say yes if they get that lunar debuff bow we barbs are screwed cause if the debuff works there goes our hp and dmg with poison and titans, and they can kill us fast....
^ that
Archers who can't afford or think the lunar bow is too expensive say that this bow is overrated, but that comes from jealousy or whatever.
That purge is almost necessary late game because a fully buffed.......... uhm..
ANYBODY fully buffed is hard to take down for archers... so yes, once purge procs, they go bye bye (:0 -
Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »^ that
Archers who can't afford or think the lunar bow is too expensive say that this bow is overrated, but that comes from jealousy or whatever.
That purge is almost necessary late game because a fully buffed.......... uhm..
ANYBODY fully buffed is hard to take down for archers... so yes, once purge procs, they go bye bye (:
I have a twin socket +10 cv... and I still say its overrated. All these archers running around with +5 cv or below think they are the best thing since slice bread... only to have their **** handed to them. If you can't afford to get a cv beyond a +7/8 your better off getting the gold 99 xbow.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
I suspect that the archers you're talking about are simply... less than competent, shall we say. The difference between +5 and +8 is only around 200 more weapon attack. If they're really getting their asses handed to them as badly as you say, the problem isn't the weapon. It's the person wielding it.Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have a twin socket +10 cv... and I still say its overrated. All these archers running around with +5 cv or below think they are the best thing since slice bread... only to have their **** handed to them. If you can't afford to get a cv beyond a +7/8 your better off getting the gold 99 xbow.0 -
Rubix - Harshlands wrote: »Anytime when Im pking and I come across a 9x or 10x archer, they normally get owned pretty fast, I was really just wandering if with good refined gear and if a person knows to play the class, are 10x archers any good, or would the refines be better put to use for another class.
Most classes gets owned pretty fast by 95+ barbs, not just archers lol. Doubt you have problems with 9X clerics either for example. There is a reason barbs always ask other classes to 1v1 b:chuckle
Endgame barb versus endgame archer +10 refines Nirvana set g14/g15 weapons +12 etc blehbleh - outcome is still obvious. Barbs have harder hitting skills, zerk, armor break, the movement speed, they have 30% chance to debuff you, almost double the amount of hp and far more defenses, even more crit than archers from Demon Onslaught. Archers only have the range and higher base dmg. They're jail baits facing a barb 1v1 unless they have better gear or if the barb is a tool.
How ever the +30 blessing does change the balance a bit in favor of ranged classes.
Having a CV bow doesn't change that much tho since it rarely procs. Barb lvl 100% skill is far more effective for debuffing than any weapon with purge effect.0 -
TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »Most classes gets owned pretty fast by 95+ barbs, not just archers lol. Doubt you have problems with 9X clerics either for example. There is a reason barbs always ask other classes to 1v1 b:chuckle
Endgame barb versus endgame archer +10 refines Nirvana set g14/g15 weapons +12 etc blehbleh - outcome is still obvious. Barbs have harder hitting skills, zerk, armor break, the movement speed, they have 30% chance to debuff you, almost double the amount of hp and far more defenses, even more crit than archers from Demon Onslaught. Archers only have the range and higher base dmg. They're jail baits facing a barb 1v1 unless they have better gear or if the barb is a tool.
How ever the +30 blessing does change the balance a bit in favor of ranged classes.
Having a CV bow doesn't change that much tho since it rarely procs. Barb lvl 100% skill is far more effective for debuffing than any weapon with purge effect.
speaking of lvl 100 skills, I haven't gotten to 100 yet as you can see :P but I was wondering if you, or any other archer on these forums, have Blood Vow and how effective is it?
From the description it sounds amazing.
HP debuff, amp damage, some pretty legit damage, 100% hit..
Sounds like any class would go down a few seconds after you use this.0 -
Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »speaking of lvl 100 skills, I haven't gotten to 100 yet as you can see :P but I was wondering if you, or any other archer on these forums, have Blood Vow and how effective is it? From the description it sounds amazing.
HP debuff, amp damage, some pretty legit damage, 100% hit..
Sounds like any class would go down a few seconds after you use this.
You should ask Asterelle, Ast is known for having all the skills. And I heard that at least in PvE usage, it's good.If you disregard what I say because of who I am or because of the contents of what I said, you are a fool.
Everyone wants to be different, but when you're different you wish you were normal.0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »I suspect that the archers you're talking about are simply... less than competent, shall we say. The difference between +5 and +8 is only around 200 more weapon attack. If they're really getting their asses handed to them as badly as you say, the problem isn't the weapon. It's the person wielding it.
If memory serves, 5 and 8 has a bit more then 200 weapon attack. even at your suggested 200 more attack... at the usual of 1 phy attack = 5 base attack... thats over 1k more phy attack. Even with the pvp reduction... thats still over 250 more raw damage. So from this perspective 5 and 8 does make a difference.Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »speaking of lvl 100 skills, I haven't gotten to 100 yet as you can see :P but I was wondering if you, or any other archer on these forums, have Blood Vow and how effective is it? From the description it sounds amazing.
HP debuff, amp damage, some pretty legit damage, 100% hit..
Sounds like any class would go down a few seconds after you use this.
keep in mind that the 18% hp debuff is for BOTH sides. so unless you plan on spark purify it away... you'll be that much more killable. the exra 1.5x or whatever damage comes in the form of a thunderball... which seems to hit 300-500 per tick on bms. the extra damage comes in the form of a curse... so you'll be able to stack extreme on top of it. make good killing in tw... but its a bit risky in 1v1.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »I suspect that the archers you're talking about are simply... less than competent, shall we say. The difference between +5 and +8 is only around 200 more weapon attack. If they're really getting their asses handed to them as badly as you say, the problem isn't the weapon. It's the person wielding it.
lunar bow +5 vs 8 have 1k diff in char window (with skill the difference is more) but the main point after spark burst 2,3-2,4k difference (against robe with take aim maybe not bad [example for sage after 3rd spark].)
(between 3rd sparked +8 vs 11 the diff is more than 5,5k)0 -
Yeah, it's 255 more attack, not just 200. My mistake there. Even so, I don't feel it's enough of a difference to go from consistently losing to consistently winning fights. In my experience, PvP as an archer largely depends on staying alive until you get a lucky weapon proc or series of criticals. A purge proc makes a lot more difference against a fully buffed opponent than 250 more raw damage per shot.Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »If memory serves, 5 and 8 has a bit more then 200 weapon attack. even at your suggested 200 more attack... at the usual of 1 phy attack = 5 base attack... thats over 1k more phy attack. Even with the pvp reduction... thats still over 250 more raw damage. So from this perspective 5 and 8 does make a difference.0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »Yeah, it's 255 more attack, not just 200. My mistake there. Even so, I don't feel it's enough of a difference to go from consistently losing to consistently winning fights. In my experience, PvP as an archer largely depends on staying alive until you get a lucky weapon proc or series of criticals. A purge proc makes a lot more difference against a fully buffed opponent than 250 more raw damage per shot.
255 dmg comes out to be 1275 base raw... and in tw with my sage take aim thats an additional 1275 raw dmg over a +5. combine those two and a +8 would have 2550 pve and 637 pvp over a +5. its the same logic that when archers pvp with cv... they switch to sharpshooters for the additional 110 dmg... instead of the 3 dmg that 2 coin arrows give. regardless of skill... when an archer only manage to hit 3 digits on a robe while the robe is nuking you for 2-3k... the kill isn't going to come easy. and fyi... if you are really depending on a weapon proc (5%) in order to kill... then you have problems.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
So you're intentionally using the skill that magnifies weapon damage differences by the greatest amount, on a cultivation path that is generally considered inferior, to somehow prove the point that 255 more weapon damage is game-changing?
Furthermore, you're doing 637 more PvP damage, before defenses/resistances are taken into account. A fully buffed robe or LA user at endgame is going to have well over 50% physical damage reduction, making the difference less than 318 damage. So even at the absolute most extreme case, using a skill that's 500% weapon damage, you're doing 318 more damage, to the squishiest possible target.
Of course the kill isn't going to come easy. What I've been trying to say all along is that if you can't kill them with a +5 Heaven Shatterer, you most likely can't kill them with a +8 Heaven Shatterer, or a +8 TT99, either. That extra 255 weapon damage isn't going to magically make you a PvP god.
Regarding the purge proc, my point there is that when it procs against a buffed opponent, it's a pretty big deal. All of a sudden, they lose more than half of their physical defense if they're fully buffed, or more if they're a wizard.0 -
Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »speaking of lvl 100 skills, I haven't gotten to 100 yet as you can see :P but I was wondering if you, or any other archer on these forums, have Blood Vow and how effective is it? From the description it sounds amazing.
HP debuff, amp damage, some pretty legit damage, 100% hit..
Sounds like any class would go down a few seconds after you use this.
It has mostly PvE applications, but when you have full chi, 5 APS, and stunning blast to hold them in place, a barb will die very quickly, unless he invokes.5.0 "Pure" 8jun Sage Clawrcher of Dreamweaver0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »making the difference less than 318 damage
lets say u crit and maybe use e.poison+jonas bless then a bit more :P0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »So you're intentionally using the skill that magnifies weapon damage differences by the greatest amount, on a cultivation path that is generally considered inferior, to somehow prove the point that 255 more weapon damage is game-changing?
Furthermore, you're doing 637 more PvP damage, before defenses/resistances are taken into account. A fully buffed robe or LA user at endgame is going to have well over 50% physical damage reduction, making the difference less than 318 damage. So even at the absolute most extreme case, using a skill that's 500% weapon damage, you're doing 318 more damage, to the squishiest possible target.
Of course the kill isn't going to come easy. What I've been trying to say all along is that if you can't kill them with a +5 Heaven Shatterer, you most likely can't kill them with a +8 Heaven Shatterer, or a +8 TT99, either. That extra 255 weapon damage isn't going to magically make you a PvP god.
Regarding the purge proc, my point there is that when it procs against a buffed opponent, it's a pretty big deal. All of a sudden, they lose more than half of their physical defense if they're fully buffed, or more if they're a wizard.
of course i am going to use take aim as an example. thats how i kill... 4.5s stun follow by take aim. as a sage archer... i have no problem 2 shotting robe/la classes with 2 skills. and believe it or not... 300 damage is actually a lot. i know i for one would take 300 over ZERO anyday. and if i crit... that 300 would turn in to 600. according to you if i can't kill anyone with +5... then there is no point of going +8 cause i still can't kill them. you know... the difference between +8 and +5 is similiar to +5 and 0... and yet i see people go for +5. why is that? its cause the freaking added damage actually helps.
but since you don't think +8 is such a big deal over +5... i guess you don't use top ammo and atk charms when you pvp since each of those gives less dmg then the refines. guess what... that makes you the inferior archer compare to those who have the refines, ammo, and charms... even if you are a demon archer. cult path might matter when it comes to what type of skills you can use... but guess what... weapon refine matter even more. we archers are judged by our weapon before anything else. and have you not noticed that all the archers that are more skilled or perfered over you have a better weapon or a better refined weapon?
any half decent cv archer knows not to ever depend on a proc to get a kill. regular shatter is so unreliable against single targets that its next to useless. i don't know about you... but i get my kills while they are fully buffed. i am not going to wait around and pray for a debuff that as far as i am concerned... will never show up.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »of course i am going to use take aim as an example. thats how i kill... 4.5s stun follow by take aim. as a sage archer... i have no problem 2 shotting robe/la classes with 2 skills. and believe it or not... 300 damage is actually a lot. i know i for one would take 300 over ZERO anyday. and if i crit... that 300 would turn in to 600. according to you if i can't kill anyone with +5... then there is no point of going +8 cause i still can't kill them. you know... the difference between +8 and +5 is similiar to +5 and 0... and yet i see people go for +5. why is that? its cause the freaking added damage actually helps.
but since you don't think +8 is such a big deal over +5... i guess you don't use top ammo and atk charms when you pvp since each of those gives less dmg then the refines. guess what... that makes you the inferior archer compare to those who have the refines, ammo, and charms... even if you are a demon archer. cult path might matter when it comes to what type of skills you can use... but guess what... weapon refine matter even more. we archers are judged by our weapon before anything else. and have you not noticed that all the archers that are more skilled or perfered over you have a better weapon or a better refined weapon?
any half decent cv archer knows not to ever depend on a proc to get a kill. regular shatter is so unreliable against single targets that its next to useless. i don't know about you... but i get my kills while they are fully buffed. i am not going to wait around and pray for a debuff that as far as i am concerned... will never show up.
+8 is greater than +5 that is obvious
255 weapon damage is actually quite a bit and I think it's definitely worth it to spend the money for that added damage.
However, I do agree that an archer who can't keep up with a +5 Lunar Bow is still going to have quite a bit of difficulty keeping up with a +8 as well.
At 90 with my gold 80 bow (only +3) i can still kill any 9x class and just have difficulties with barbs.. even then I can still pack a punch and if i get lucky with crits, I can take them down.
But at end game (and i mean tt99 gear at least), in my previous experience with archers (2 garnet gem +9 lunar bow lvl 97) I still always hoped for a proc because taking down barbs fully buffed was... almost impossible
i always needed around 4 crits in a row or that proc... w/e the case may have been, it all depended on luck and that's something that us archers have to depend on a lot, it seems natural.
5% chance to debuff is better than nothing and since i spent the money on the bow I'm always going to be hoping and praying for a proc whenever I'm doing PvP.0 -
TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »Most classes gets owned pretty fast by 95+ barbs, not just archers lol. Doubt you have problems with 9X clerics either for example. There is a reason barbs always ask other classes to 1v1 b:chuckle
Endgame barb versus endgame archer +10 refines Nirvana set g14/g15 weapons +12 etc blehbleh - outcome is still obvious. Barbs have harder hitting skills, zerk, armor break, the movement speed, they have 30% chance to debuff you, almost double the amount of hp and far more defenses, even more crit than archers from Demon Onslaught. Archers only have the range and higher base dmg. They're jail baits facing a barb 1v1 unless they have better gear or if the barb is a tool.
How ever the +30 blessing does change the balance a bit in favor of ranged classes.
Having a CV bow doesn't change that much tho since it rarely procs. Barb lvl 100% skill is far more effective for debuffing than any weapon with purge effect.
+30 atk level does help ranged classes alot but also barbs to..i have yet to meet a LA with my +30 atk level to take my arma and survive unless the sin happened to have their avoid 1 hit skill on. coarse what it comes down to is the barb hitting the archer with armageddon or the lunar bow procing[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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