Requirements and tips for rebirth delta?

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

Hey guys,

I need rebirth delta (I think stage 4?) for my chrono quest, and I wanna know what I need for it stat-wise. Atm I have 4k hp unbuffed and 3.5k physical defense self buffed.

Also I've never done delta before (only gamma) and I wanna know what the tricks and tactics are for a wizard, cause I've heard it is not just about keeping DB up and keeping yourself alife like in gamma.

Also, as a last question, is it true that since the new frost and new bh, there are very few full deltas anymore? Cause I would really like it to aim at doing alot of full deltas during my 90-100 to level up, cause I hate frost and.. well I hate bh too, which leaves me with only wq cs and grinding.

Thanks all in advance!

Celia.

Adroit - Lost City

Well with that much hp/pdef you're gonna really need to be on your toes. When you take aggro you need to just kite, you really can't sit there and try to tank. You should also know that wave 3 subwaves 4 & 5 have lots of stun mobs, so just make sure someone in the party hits the mobs before the BB starts up (this can easily be you). It really has more to do with your party and how you work together than one person.. if the barb is really good they can take all aggro (rare), so most the time the party should be sharing aggro. The only real other way to fail is if on a stun wave (wave 3 or 9) the cleric gets knocked out of BB. The easiest way to stop that is just make sure all the mobs are hit somehow before they come into the BB.

Anyway, not really sure if I answered your questions, but you really need to learn your "tactics" on your own (it really needs to be more of a natural thing for you.. you can't think about it and then act).. and it is fairly difficult to find GV parties on lost city anyway.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

delta ish easy!

b:cute

hai celia<3

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

your pdef is pretty low, u might have problems, but its possible
my problem was hp under 4k :P



easy as pie is non-perfect squad
with 2 clerics, barb, bm, archer
its worth the lost beans...
i had 1 full run with only 1 tick like this ^_^


helpful too is
an archer with a high refined weapon (like 3 higher then yours)
using rings with hp modifers (damage doesnt matter, all u want is survive lol)
or refined physical rings >.>

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

And here I thought my 3,3k hp was nearing good enough for delta b:sad

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

you shard garnet? pdef makes up for hp >.>

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

In gamma you could stay in zhen all the time.
In delta, after wave 2 you start with dropping ultimate or two, zhen a bit, drop zhen when you take too much aggro, open zhen again when feeling safe.

HP charm is a must, event pots too. Expel in genie. Antistun pots can be helpful but those are more important to cleric, you can get away without using them.

Most important - pro squad, especially barb and BM who know their part and an archer with good weapon to share a bit of aggro and kill things fast.

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you shard garnet? pdef makes up for hp >.>

1,5k phys def b:surrender
I don't have my TT pants yet, should get a bump in def/hp when I get em though.
I shard a combo, but as I'm in the proces of getting new gear it's not fully sharded yet

Negimagi - Heavens Tear

around 2.5k pdef unbuffed and 4k hp unbuffed are the average amount that work well even in random squad.

Important things are all said in the posts above: expel, stun pots, and dropping DB. You can also un-equip your weapon if you don't want to drop DB. Dunno how it is on sanctuary. On HT, ppl only do Delta for RB and it's hard as hell to get a good barb/bm. I think most barbs quit after the production of the interval BM b:laugh

Adroit - Lost City

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

In gamma you could stay in zhen all the time.
In delta, after wave 2 you start with dropping ultimate or two, zhen a bit, drop zhen when you take too much aggro, open zhen again when feeling safe.

HP charm is a must, event pots too. Expel in genie. Antistun pots can be helpful but those are more important to cleric, you can get away without using them.

Most important - pro squad, especially barb and BM who know their part and an archer with good weapon to share a bit of aggro and kill things fast.

I dunno, I think every party is different. I used to go with this crazy pro barb (Guanaco) and he could hold aggro so well that I would open zhen and afk (go read forums or something) and just come back for bosses or stun waves. After I ran with him enough times I started going uncharmed because my charm would only tick on the last boss.. but I have had similar experiences to you with baddies barbs in my party.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1,5k phys def b:surrender
I don't have my TT pants yet, should get a bump in def/hp when I get em though.
I shard a combo, but as I'm in the proces of getting new gear it's not fully sharded yet

you are playing "hard mode" >.> ?




i died in bh delta today lols, didnt pot cause i thought the second cleric might heal b:shocked

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

I don't know what happened but delta is without blessing for me MUCH harder. I did easily delta without charm to wave 3. But after removed blessing I have huge problem to do even wave 2. What was changed? In my gear nothing. I was 2x kicked to 1K in wave 2!!! Never happened with blessing. Maybe I have to change strategy. (I'm telling without charm.)

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you are playing "hard mode" >.> ?




i died in bh delta today lols, didnt pot cause i thought the second cleric might heal b:shocked

No, I'm playing no-money-mode b:cry
For normal instances, BH,TT, ect, and grind, I'm doing fine. My gear isn't even that bad. I'll see if I can find time to make a sim of my gear, cause I can't find much I can get 700hp from

Kokki - Harshlands

4K hp and 3.5K pdef self buffed is too low to really be considered a AOE DD'er in delta.

I have 3.3K pdef UNBUFFED and 5.1K hp.

I can't delta without a charm no matter what ( do mind that i have rank 6 +10, and Sage DB ).
Only succesfull delta's ( full run ) i have been in are with two archers or with two BM's. And the archers both have to have lunar +10 otherwise if i drop zhen i still don't loose aggro till after the mobs are dead.

Yes 2.5K pdef and 4K hp is condered the minimum to make delta's worthwhile

Shevanel - Sanctuary

Ouch, Sage DB in Delta, as you would quite clearly be aware, is hardmode. Thats the reason you can't do it easily.
Stunning resets agro, as does it overwrite a BMs roar. Bringing more mobs to you.

I don't plan on getting Sage DB untill I have done my 100 culti.

PrettySammy - Sanctuary

Hmm, yeah sage DB is an absolute no no for delta really. No unless you cash shop till you have like 10k pdef and 10k HP.

As for delta I had similiar stats to yourself back at 90+ so it shouldn't be too hard. The main issue now is:

A: finding a good BM and barb who know what th hell they are doing with aggro
B: knowing when to drop DB and back off - distance shrink FTW
C: having enoough pots apoths and HP food
Charm replacement - I'd recommend either the teacher full defense one of the balanced one

You have raised one issue which is delta's in Sanctuary and yes they are on the decline. I think alot of other people prefer BH's and Frost may be due to time effort or charm resources, this I don't know. 3-4hrs per delta is alot longer though than Frost and I know most people power levelled with Frost + Hypers far easier thanI did through 250 full delta runs.

Anyhow all I can say is go try it, be persistant and try have some fun.

Toodles

CeliaZ - Sanctuary

Thanks alot all! I will give it a shot when I have time, guess getting experience is also a big part of learning to delta.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Kokki - Harshlands wrote: »

4K hp and 3.5K pdef self buffed is too low to really be considered a AOE DD'er in delta.

I have 3.3K pdef UNBUFFED and 5.1K hp.

Geez man you are level 100. Be more considerate for us lvl90-91s

Kokki - Harshlands

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Geez man you are level 100. Be more considerate for us lvl90-91s

My gear hasn't changed much since level 92, just some more refines but not alot. atm farming my TT99 gold which takes a while. I'm still wearing my Sky demon's pearl since the damned gold mat won't drop for me to get my TT90 gold neck

2.5K pdef is easily attainable for anyone with decent +4 Pdef ornaments and decent sharding

I'm only considerate if people actually try to do their best. But 3.3K self buffed is just god awful at 90+


I know sage DB is a big factor in my aggro pulling in delta, too bad you can't unlearn skills

I learned it mostly for TW, and because i do TW more then GV delta i learned it. but i made a GV/TW genie, and it has clooud eruption on it. So i pretty much get off all ulti's before the first is out of cooldown, then i build chi to start DB and i'm pretty much good to go

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Yeah I was talking mostly about refines, it's where HP comes from. You'd have to shard pdef to reach 3.3k self-buffed at 90 instead, or refine your ornaments and shard HP... either way, refining applies. And while it's not more expensive to refine at 90 than 99/100, what I was getting at was that people don't usually bother with high refines since this gear is kinda temporary.

Not saying 99/100 is forever (don't want to eat my own words, even ignoring nirvana) but at least a lot longer-term.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1,5k phys def b:surrender
I don't have my TT pants yet, should get a bump in def/hp when I get em though.
I shard a combo, but as I'm in the proces of getting new gear it's not fully sharded yet

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you are playing "hard mode" >.> ?




i died in bh delta today lols, didnt pot cause i thought the second cleric might heal b:shocked

Me tried "hard mode"
b:chuckle
2.2k hp and like 1.3k P def.
xD

Also Guanaco rocks your socks!

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

Alright, bringing this back from.. halfway down the page

I need some real advise :P

My current gear is this:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=fd68924a243313e9
(the OHT belt isn't on PWcalc, so I just used a mdef belt and chanced the stats so it's OHT phys def belt (it's +3)

I'm fairly close to my TT90 pants (got the antana's), and planning on getting everything to +3, should be easy with the crapload of mirages I'm getting from nien
So than it would look like this:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=9ef2203fed50a852

I put in 2 flawles citrines. I know that imacs are suposed to go in there, but concidering imacs are still expencive as hell, and flawless citrines practicly worthless now, I just figured I'd put in flawlesses and purge them when I have safed up enough for imacs (not leaving open, cause that would waste possible hp)

What can I improve to be able to do delta wave4?
My budged is almost nothing, I have a smal coin tricle from OHT daily and selling the perf stones, grinding in heaven with a OMA also generates some money

I'm also about to ding 92, and to tell ya truth I completely lost track on my str cap XD
I'm thinking it was 52, so than I should stop adding strenght. Am I right? Don't want to **** over char with to much str like I did with dex (yes, that was stupidb:surrender )

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

found your belt:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=c7a8940329929a81

get tt90 pants and put immaculate citrines in it, not flawles, these are your endgame pants (worst case sockets on pwcalc)

u should replace ur cape, anything with more hp... xd

stow that channeling gear, u dont need channeling >.> get a ring with 120+ hp for delta, take a physical attack ring, refine it to gain pdef xd


unlucky on sockets on your oht gear ;( have a few more tries, maybe u get sleeves with 3xpdef/hp and more sockets ,




take ur time improving gear, u dont wanna pay a charm for fails xd
also map2 reaally sucks, mobs hit hard + quests are solo-mode



i was borrowing +5/4immaCitrine gear from a friend on my first delta,
u have friends with super unbound gear who trust u=?

Adroit - Lost City

well your gear definitely has room for improvement.. but you shouldnt have too much of an issue passing a full GV. Probably the easiest way to increase your hp is restat a few more vit points, but I completed my first GV with about the same hp as you, but you gotta be careful with aggro. I remember I basically dropped an ult or two then opened zhen.. and dropped it when I took aggro from a few mobs. Then the trick is kiting until someone else takes some of the aggro. You should also keep in mind that I used to pass GV regularly uncharmed (about 5k hp unbuffed and +10 cv wand).. so you will actually have more survivability (if ur charmed) than I had and be less likely to take aggro. Guess my point is that you can pass it with your current gear if you come prepared with pots/good party and are careful.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

post a pwcalc of u adroit b:chuckle
pdef :P?




*pure arcane with bad geaR is worse xd u get more aggro and cant take anything xD
made me add 2 or 3 points QQ

Adroit - Lost City

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

post a pwcalc of u adroit b:chuckle
pdef :P?




*pure arcane with bad geaR is worse xd u get more aggro and cant take anything xD
made me add 2 or 3 points QQ

i cant post pwcalc atm.. im about 400 miles away from my computer (camping) and using my phone to check forums when im bored.. pwcalc is a pain to use when im on this phone.. but I can post it in a few days when I get back. Did you want my initial gear I used to pass GV my first time, the gear I used when I did GV uncharmed all the time, or my current gear?

MagicHamsta - Lost City

gasp

Adroit lost in the woods!
O_o

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

PWcalc is a bother to use even with a computer XD
It takes sooo long to get all the stats up and right

Problem on the OHT robe is that not many people make them. I felt pritty lucky I found one with good stats actually, dispite the single socket it's the best there was (and still is) available for it's price.
For the rings, because my current rings already both give some hp (70 and 80), it's hard to find any rings that really give anything more. Getting low lvl phys rings with some good hp mod won't help cause they refine bad, and high lvl phys rings with hp on em seem to be in short suply.
Same with capes I'm afraid, they'r hard to find with good hp. But I'm trying.

I scraped tougether a bunch of mirages and went to +3 my gear. Got lucky on the boots lol, first try succesful XD. The had went bad, something like 10 fails in a row before I got lucky XD. The cape was horrible, after like 20 fails in a row it's now +2 and I'm low on mirages again (well, some imporvement in hp XD)

I'll keep hunting for sleeves and TT3-1 squads XD
And who knows, I'm in a pritty big faction, could always try b:chuckle

EDIT: ofc, tnx on the advise

Ursa - Dreamweaver

ok, so my experience with delta comes from:
- +6k HP
- 6.5k pdef
- 11.8k magic attk.
^ self buffed stats.

I can do wave 2-3, finish the whole Delta without too much trouble never worry about a charm. But for that I need a good BM. Barb just won't cut it ... and I hate to see the poor barb trying to get aggro. Dropping DB is a solution, without chi aura will slow the killing and that will just overlap waves.

I've been in Delta with a number of different squad, and I was always successful when the BM did his job properly. There were times when I didn't even used ToP once during stun wave (I'm 95% of time uncharmed) and I haven't been kicked out of DB.

I've been in a Delta where BM had some lvl 60 NPC axes only. Barely got through wave 2, with a 70k burnt from charm. Other very unhappy experiences were when the archer or the other wiz had like a TT99 +3+4 weapon....No matter how I tried to share aggro, couldn't do it, and the killing was extremely slow. Same with archers that think just having a Lunar bow makes them gods.

Jones blessing (30% attk lvl) is a curse in delta. Get the daily reward one, 8% def lvl increase. That will really help you. 30% attk lvl will basically make BM/barbs life a living hell and you have huge to humongous chances to get to 1k with regards and kisses from archer mobs before wave 3. That blessing is nice to have for BMs and Barbs in getting and keeping aggro off DDs. Smart ones even switch (with the daily reward one) depending on needs.

Delta is all about how good BM and Barb are at sharing aggro and avoid being stunned while keeping aggro during stun waves. That's all about it.

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Delta is all about how good BM and Barb are at sharing aggro and avoid being stunned while keeping aggro during stun waves. That's all about it.

So is gamma :P
The bleed waves stacked up high back there. Only saw a few BM/barbs capable of holding aggro off of me on those waves. Saw bleed stack up to 800dmg a tick, with my 2k hp (and a str based genie with lvl 10 bloodcloth AND cautorize XD)

Ursa - Dreamweaver

I know, been in Gamma a lot...heh, it's actually a year almost since i left the Gamma range, but wait until you enter Delta.
Bleed in gamma would be a joke compared to the stun waves and the havoc they bring in Delta.