It's Cloud Eruption time again...

Nukesrus - Harshlands

Can someone with a decent LP genie and time to spare try something for me?

Zeal genie, 100 magic, just enough vit for CE.


How fast does your chi fill up? Is it worth having to equip during seal periods in TW for a free spark? Will it spark you by the time you go from west arch to west gate?


EDIT: probably needs 60-70 LP.

Adroit - Lost City

I've never actually used CE before, but I doubt it would be worth it. 100 energy means it gets 3 energy/sec back. CE takes 130 energy.. so you're talking almost 45 seconds to be able to use it.. and then switching back means your main genie is going to need to start gaining energy (like for another 1-2 mins for a full bar depending on build). I suppose if you used a full mag genie as your main it might be worthwhile.. but I would think a dex or vit built genie would be more useful. You might consider just using a chi pot and waiting on the cooldown before going back out.

Kokki - Harshlands

I have CE on my TW genie as lots and lots of chi is very nice to have.

( start with 399 chi, Ulti -> 199Chi, hailstorm ->204 Chi, Ulti -> 4 chi, CE + Spark pot ->295 Chi, Ulti -> 95 chi, Pyrogram -> 100/145 Chi, Zhen )

Also in TW the cost of chi pots can get pretty high in an 3 hour TW. One time i used 30 1.5 Spark chi pots in 1 TW. Chi stones are cheaper.

But actual switching genies just for CE, not worth it. At level 1 CE needs 130 energy and try getting that at a fast pace. Just make a specific genie for different purposes in game. I have a PVE/PVE/TW genie all with different skill sets.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver

since they screwed expel . i rebuild ed my own genie and took CE off its not that great in 1v1, cuz vs a real opponent u wont want to get chi boost, ud want something to help u keep alive, or catch ur opponent


but on tw its awesome

Borsuc - Raging Tide

I love Cloud Eruption, I wouldn't replace it with any other skill, especially seeing as the genie with it has 80 str points, which makes it a "str genie" and kinda bad for dex-based skills (I have another genie for those). At lvl4 with 80 str it gives me 152 chi, which I chose for a reason. (151 was needed for that b:sin)

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

since they screwed expel .

They didn't "****" expel they simply corrected it the way it was supposed to work, on friendly targets. No idea why people try to justify exploits.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

since they screwed expel . i rebuild ed my own genie and took CE off its not that great in 1v1, cuz vs a real opponent u wont want to get chi boost, ud want something to help u keep alive, or catch ur opponent


but on tw its awesome

What they did with expel? You cannot use it in PK now? If yes they should also FIX!!! BM's fist and attack rate.

Nukesrus - Harshlands

Yeah, expel no longer seals a target, which screws over quite a few mages.

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Ummmm, expel still seals the target in world pvp. I know because it saved my **** few times today.

Adroit - Lost City

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

Ummmm, expel still seals the target in world pvp. I know because it saved my **** few times today.

there is a new filter to stop "neutral" blessings. The reason expel works the way it does is because it is considered a positive buff, the immune to physical with a side effect of being sealed. As people start figuring it out, they will enable the filter and expel won't work on them >.>

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Nukesrus - Harshlands wrote: »

Yeah, expel no longer seals a target, which screws over quite a few mages.

No it doesn't, it makes mages use more normal skills instead of exploiting an instant-seal skill. (which was obviously overpowered, look at other genie skills in comparison, especially since immunity to physical damage was worthless for magic attacks)

If that makes mages weaker against certain situations (esp. physical classes), then time to accept imbalances in this game?

Exitium - Dreamweaver

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

No it doesn't, it makes mages use more normal skills instead of exploiting an instant-seal skill. (which was obviously overpowered, look at other genie skills in comparison, especially since immunity to physical damage was worthless for magic attacks)

If that makes mages weaker against certain situations (esp. physical classes), then time to accept imbalances in this game?

So youre saying the skill was overpowered but now that they "fixed" it it ruins the game balance even more? b:surrender

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

No it doesn't, it makes mages use more normal skills instead of exploiting an instant-seal skill.

when u get to 1xx-9x and start pking, and see that a 5 hits a sec bm can kill u in a duration of occult ice / that aoe stun thing u wil miss/want the protection expel gave.


i just love when ppl that got no clue about anything replays to this kind of stuff

Haiz - Lost City

You're supposed to use expel on yourself. You people are missing the whole point of it gives YOU protection, that is what it is supposed to do. I'm pretty sure expel will last long enough to go through his stun and occult ice. Use it the way it is intended to be used, as in on yourself and not abusing it on others.

Seems like you have no idea how it is really supposed to be used. All it was is an easy button before.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Exitium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So youre saying the skill was overpowered but now that they "fixed" it it ruins the game balance even more? b:surrender

The skill was overpowered, making magic classes better obviously. Now it's even more imbalanced because the magic classes lost an "exploit", which shows even more that magic classes are screwed in this game.

If a magic class skill was broken and dealt, for example, twice damage, and only with this glitch, the magic class was "competitive", then the magic class is obviously hugely underpowered, since it relies on a glitch to be competitive.

So what to do? Start complaining like me it might make the devs change the magic classes.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

when u get to 1xx-9x and start pking, and see that a 5 hits a sec bm can kill u in a duration of occult ice / that aoe stun thing u wil miss/want the protection expel gave.

You don't get it. If you think that without Expel you are dead meat, then the game balance is broken, you are playing an underpowered class or the 5aps BMs are playing an overpowered class and that should be fixed.

Exploiting a skill the way it was NOT supposed to be used does not solve the real balance problems. I've complained numerous times about the -interval system being broken, and I really laugh when people have a "solution" against it an exploit like Expel. Saying "stop QQing and learn to use Expel" (i.e use an Exploit, that's the solution to balance!). Since when are exploits solutions?

For the record, I love Expel, usually on myself. Yes I use it. No I don't exploit it by expelling others, I'm not here to "win by any means", instead I propose solutions and complaints about the imbalance in this game.

I don't give a damn about winning at all possible means, using exploits is never going to justify or solve the crappy balance in this game.

Nukesrus - Harshlands

Borsuc has a point; it was nice while it lasted, but it had to be fixed eventually. I never, ever used expel on my genie anyway.

Still sucks though that out of all the skills not working as intended, the one they fixed was one that indirectly buffed mages.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

The skill was overpowered, making magic classes better obviously. Now it's even more imbalanced because the magic classes lost an "exploit", which shows even more that magic classes are screwed in this game.

If a magic class skill was broken and dealt, for example, twice damage, and only with this glitch, the magic class was "competitive", then the magic class is obviously hugely underpowered, since it relies on a glitch to be competitive.

So what to do? Start complaining like me it might make the devs change the magic classes.

You don't get it. If you think that without Expel you are dead meat, then the game balance is broken, you are playing an underpowered class or the 5aps BMs are playing an overpowered class and that should be fixed.

Exploiting a skill the way it was NOT supposed to be used does not solve the real balance problems. I've complained numerous times about the -interval system being broken, and I really laugh when people have a "solution" against it an exploit like Expel. Saying "stop QQing and learn to use Expel" (i.e use an Exploit, that's the solution to balance!). Since when are exploits solutions?

For the record, I love Expel, usually on myself. Yes I use it. No I don't exploit it by expelling others, I'm not here to "win by any means", instead I propose solutions and complaints about the imbalance in this game.

I don't give a damn about winning at all possible means, using exploits is never going to justify or solve the crappy balance in this game.

well ye ur right. but i doubt they wil ever fix the int, if anything im pretty sure they will do another thing that will benefit them
while us casters getting even more screwed

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Well, I was never going to expect they would fix Expel, so I have a bit of hope though they would change the -int system. Well just a bit.

Exitium - Dreamweaver

Expel:
Expels a ally from the physical world.
Silences the target but grants
immunity to physical damage for 9.0 seconds.
For non-hostile units.

b:surrender Never read the description before, now I get why it was an exploit the way it was used to silence hostile targets. Its still useful if you do like Ursa showed in OHT to grind but who grinds now >.> And hows -int broken? I mean I know its op but isnt it supposed to be that way?

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

The skill was overpowered, making magic classes better obviously. Now it's even more imbalanced because the magic classes lost an "exploit", which shows even more that magic classes are screwed in this game.

If a magic class skill was broken and dealt, for example, twice damage, and only with this glitch, the magic class was "competitive", then the magic class is obviously hugely underpowered, since it relies on a glitch to be competitive.

So what to do? Start complaining like me it might make the devs change the magic classes.

You don't get it. If you think that without Expel you are dead meat, then the game balance is broken, you are playing an underpowered class or the 5aps BMs are playing an overpowered class and that should be fixed.

Exploiting a skill the way it was NOT supposed to be used does not solve the real balance problems. I've complained numerous times about the -interval system being broken, and I really laugh when people have a "solution" against it an exploit like Expel. Saying "stop QQing and learn to use Expel" (i.e use an Exploit, that's the solution to balance!). Since when are exploits solutions?

For the record, I love Expel, usually on myself. Yes I use it. No I don't exploit it by expelling others, I'm not here to "win by any means", instead I propose solutions and complaints about the imbalance in this game.

I don't give a damn about winning at all possible means, using exploits is never going to justify or solve the crappy balance in this game.

Absolutely true.

fulgida

Exitium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And hows -int broken? I mean I know its op but isnt it supposed to be that way?

-interval is broken because it builds chi so quickly -- 5 attacks per second gives 25 chi per second or a spark every four seconds.

Originally, blademasters built chi slower, per hit, than other classes, but this was broken so they revoked that. I believe unarmed attacks are scaled down, but fist/claw attacks are not.

Hypothetically speaking, fists should get less chi per strike than other weapons. However, assassins have incredible chi building skills so that would no longer be a good solution either.

To fix this, they would have to introduce some sort of chi depletion mechanism. For example, imagine a "location" had 1000 chi, and that every time someone gained chi it depleted the location's chi and chi building from normal attacks was scaled down in proportion to the location's chi. So if the location had 600 chi left a normal attack would get 3 chi instead of 5 chi.

Next have each person in the location add some amount of chi per second to the location (let us say 15 chi per second).

Next, have skills always give their chi (instead of scaled down) but then after they are used they pull chi from the location (scaled so they get 100% right when their cooldown ends).

Now, if you can deal with boundary conditions properly (and this could become a nasty issue), 5aps ceases to be so overpowered in PvE.

(PvP gets trickier -- the thing about 5aps in PvP is that you can easily step out of range, but you will probably be frozen so you either need damage immune or you need teleport. Another possibility might involve reflect, but that has been nerfed in PvP.)

But anyways, i hope this helps?

Joshcja - Sanctuary

for what it costs bm's to get a int set you can have a +10 rank 8 and just 1 shot the bm

int is powerfull but not overpowered in pvp

and seriosly

roll a bm and try to kill without -int on anyone with serious gear without back to back zerk and crits it dosent happen

Haiz - Lost City

Interval is much cheaper actually. With the interval you also get some decent survival gear that'll help you not get one shot.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

for what it costs bm's to get a int set you can have a +10 rank 8 and just 1 shot the bm

int is powerfull but not overpowered in pvp

and seriosly

roll a bm and try to kill without -int on anyone with serious gear without back to back zerk and crits it dosent happen

before high lv (30-95) a crit+zerk same time deadlier than most of other skill and have only luck requiment no chi and can work in aoe XD

in tw most suckes when a bm stun lock+dragon me and a archer with +10 or higher weapon kill me with critb:angry

Partypooper - Harshlands

Nukesrus - Harshlands wrote: »

Can someone with a decent LP genie and time to spare try something for me?

Zeal genie, 100 magic, just enough vit for CE.


How fast does your chi fill up? Is it worth having to equip during seal periods in TW for a free spark? Will it spark you by the time you go from west arch to west gate?


EDIT: probably needs 60-70 LP.

Quit debating and get it already.

Shadowfire - Dreamweaver

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

for what it costs bm's to get a int set you can have a +10 rank 8 and just 1 shot the bm

int is powerfull but not overpowered in pvp

and seriosly

roll a bm and try to kill without -int on anyone with serious gear without back to back zerk and crits it dosent happen

And pve-wise, the bm is then set for life and can farm high-lvl instances solo/duo and make much more profit than the +10 rank 8 wizard that must still run the instances in actual squads. But -int is fair, right?


On the topic of expel, the "fix" isn't one. If the skill was fixed, it would work how it does in pve, casting the skill on yourself when an enemy is targeted. However, all the devs did was add a filter that prevents other people from being buffed/sealed by the skill, without fixing the problem of the skill not casting on yourself. This is why the skill is now (mostly) useless in pvp, because to expel myself i have to change targets to myself, and then use it. This takes longer, and is much less likely to work.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Shadowfire - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And pve-wise, the bm is then set for life and can farm high-lvl instances solo/duo and make much more profit than the +10 rank 8 wizard that must still run the instances in actual squads. But -int is fair, right?


On the topic of expel, the "fix" isn't one. If the skill was fixed, it would work how it does in pve, casting the skill on yourself when an enemy is targeted. However, all the devs did was add a filter that prevents other people from being buffed/sealed by the skill, without fixing the problem of the skill not casting on yourself. This is why the skill is now (mostly) useless in pvp, because to expel myself i have to change targets to myself, and then use it. This takes longer, and is much less likely to work.

with a price tag like that?

oh and to solo high lvl instances would need +8-+10 refines with DoD/+2 def shading or vit stones

for almost 2 bill in coin sunk into a toon? yes i beleive thats fair

Haiz - Lost City

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

with a price tag like that?

oh and to solo high lvl instances would need +8-+10 refines with DoD/+2 def shading or vit stones

for almost 2 bill in coin sunk into a toon? yes i beleive thats fair

2 billion? Don't make me laugh uncontrollably.

150mil - tome of scroll
40mil - top golds
140mi - nirvana pants + pant golds
10mil - wrist golds
40mil - lunar cape
60mil - cv claws
30mil - 99 adorns (not sure how much these are tbh)

Oh look, you reached 4 attacks per second without any spark. It only costs what? 470million? Pretty sure I spent over 640 million for rank 8. If you really think getting all that to +8 will cost you 1.5 billion, you must be bad at buying stuff. Now gtfo these forums and stop saying getting an OP fist warrior is expensive. You don't need good refined **** as well, find an assassin and get blood paint.

Adroit - Lost City

Haiz - Lost City wrote: »

2 billion? Don't make me laugh uncontrollably.

150mil - tome of scroll
40mil - top golds
140mi - nirvana pants + pant golds
10mil - wrist golds
40mil - lunar cape
60mil - cv claws
30mil - 99 adorns (not sure how much these are tbh)

Oh look, you reached 4 attacks per second without any spark. It only costs what? 470million? Pretty sure I spent over 640 million for rank 8. If you really think getting all that to +8 will cost you 1.5 billion, you must be bad at buying stuff. Now gtfo these forums and stop saying getting an OP fist warrior is expensive. You don't need good refined **** as well, find an assassin and get blood paint.

QFT, just thought I'd add in that rank8 does not mean you're going to one shot the BM either.. with magic marrow/high hp/ability to use genie etc.. BM's have quite an advantage.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Haiz - Lost City wrote: »

2 billion? Don't make me laugh uncontrollably.

150mil - tome of scroll
40mil - top golds
140mi - nirvana pants + pant golds
10mil - wrist golds
40mil - lunar cape
60mil - cv claws
30mil - 99 adorns (not sure how much these are tbh)

Oh look, you reached 4 attacks per second without any spark. It only costs what? 470million? Pretty sure I spent over 640 million for rank 8. If you really think getting all that to +8 will cost you 1.5 billion, you must be bad at buying stuff. Now gtfo these forums and stop saying getting an OP fist warrior is expensive. You don't need good refined **** as well, find an assassin and get blood paint.

thats 4 aps with no refines roughly 3.5k hp and no other weapons but fists (realistic cost of 5 aps on sanc atm is about 600 mill atm if you dont decide to gimp your def with LA orns you left out green mat price)

no im shure that can tank with only bloodpaint (BP only heals DPS a high spike will still kill all but the best geared bm's and without cleric/barb buffs it gets even worse)

was replying to 5 aps and able to solo 3-3 would take def/vit stones in 3-4 socket armor high refines higher grade chest/legs for the def stones (nirvana) skill costs both lvl 10 sage and demon (was +10-+8 btw) add on rings hat andthe fact that the bm will want more than 1 weapon at 100+ and refines on those

total cost of making a bm with all that is about 1.7 bill with going prices

so sorry did overprice it just a bit

on a parting note 4 aps is only perma spark on paper since server lag and human reaction time take off about 1-2 seconds of spark each cycle

Exitium - Dreamweaver

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

thats 4 aps with no refines roughly 3.5k hp and no other weapons but fists (realistic cost of 5 aps on sanc atm is about 600 mill atm if you dont decide to gimp your def with LA orns you left out green mat price)

no im shure that can tank with only bloodpaint (BP only heals DPS a high spike will still kill all but the best geared bm's and without cleric/barb buffs it gets even worse)

was replying to 5 aps and able to solo 3-3 would take def/vit stones in 3-4 socket armor high refines higher grade chest/legs for the def stones (nirvana) skill costs both lvl 10 sage and demon (was +10-+8 btw) add on rings hat andthe fact that the bm will want more than 1 weapon at 100+ and refines on those

total cost of making a bm with all that is about 1.7 bill with going prices

so sorry did overprice it just a bit

on a parting note 4 aps is only perma spark on paper since server lag and human reaction time take off about 1-2 seconds of spark each cycle

The point was that getting 5 aps is cheaper than getting a rank 8 weapon. Now youre asking for a fully built bm... The wizzy with a rank 8 weapon will do some nice dmg but it stops there >.> Fact is that with 5 aps you can solo TTs and maybe you wont start with 3-3 right away but with all the profit I can tell you it wont be that long. Try to make me believe that a wizzy with a rank 8 weapon can make anywhere close to that much -.-

Adroit - Lost City

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

thats 4 aps with no refines roughly 3.5k hp and no other weapons but fists (realistic cost of 5 aps on sanc atm is about 600 mill atm if you dont decide to gimp your def with LA orns you left out green mat price)

no im shure that can tank with only bloodpaint (BP only heals DPS a high spike will still kill all but the best geared bm's and without cleric/barb buffs it gets even worse)

was replying to 5 aps and able to solo 3-3 would take def/vit stones in 3-4 socket armor high refines higher grade chest/legs for the def stones (nirvana) skill costs both lvl 10 sage and demon (was +10-+8 btw) add on rings hat andthe fact that the bm will want more than 1 weapon at 100+ and refines on those

total cost of making a bm with all that is about 1.7 bill with going prices

so sorry did overprice it just a bit

on a parting note 4 aps is only perma spark on paper since server lag and human reaction time take off about 1-2 seconds of spark each cycle

Green mat price is nonfactor. The only reason you would ever run an HH is for the gold mats.. when I've needed any green mats for whatever, guildies that run HH alot give them for free if they haven't already npc'd them. Green mats are dirt cheap and are negligible to the price of an end game character.

Def/Vit stones are nice, especially for pvp.. but flawless citrines work just fine. Same with +5 refines.. +8/+10 are great, but definitely not necessary for pve. Other weapons are also useful, although you don't need top of the line of everything. Calamities are cheap and just fine for axes, no BM is going to be DD'ing with axes anyways.. that's what the fists are for. Other weapons are basically the same, you don't need top of the line weapons.. finding decent cheap weapons to allow you to use your skills are all you really need.

You can always put more money in this game on a character, but you don't need to spend 1.7 billion coins for a good fist BM. I think everyone has already agreed that -interval is amazing, most say its unbalanced.. though your thought that it costs more than anything else so it is fair is just dumb. Rank 8 costs more, and doesn't guarantee anything. 5 aps will take just about anything down, and even rank8 +12 weps don't one shot a good BM. I remember seeing NyKage (amazing gears 5aps BM +10 HH100) 1v1 Ehee (amazing gears +12 rank8 mage) and when Ehee used an anti-stun pot and demon sparked.. NyKage tanked the spark and ended up winning. Just goes to say that getting rank8 does not "balance" the classes.