Venos without herc/nix?
Foxy_chick - Heavens Tear
Posts: 7 Arc User
So I'm back to PWI from a long break, and i was wondering If I'd want to continue playing on my veno, or start a tideborne. As a veno, so far I've been terrible at PvP, duels...etc since I'm kinda squishy and everyone goes to attack the veno, not the pet. Also, I was wondering If I'd be having any role in PvE parties, other than luring, since I wont be able to afford a herc/nix. I've ran around archosaur for a while, Almost every high lvl veno either got one of those.
So i was wondering, would this char be of any use without one of those incredible expensive pets?
So i was wondering, would this char be of any use without one of those incredible expensive pets?
Post edited by Foxy_chick - Heavens Tear on
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i got to lvl 90 w/o have nix/herc and im fine:D i was thinking many times to stop lvl..but since i lvl fast w cs and bh o.o i did't need stop lvl![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL0 -
Things a non-herc veno brings to the table:
Long range, cost-free (unless pet dies) luring
Amplify Damage - no other defense debuff skill lasts as long, and it stacks with others.
An extra DD - a high patk free pet (scorpion or dark wanderer, even a glacial walker or magmite) can out-DPS a herc that isn't tanking (i.e., not contributing any damage through reflection.) (A phoenix is queen of DPS among pets, but can't be used in an instance.) This is particularly valuable against [?] bosses, as damage isn't reduced for level for pets.
Purge - no other class can remove self-buffs from bosses.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga0 -
Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »Things a non-herc veno brings to the table:
Long range, cost-free (unless pet dies) luring
Amplify Damage - no other defense debuff skill lasts as long, and it stacks with others.
An extra DD - a high patk free pet (scorpion or dark wanderer, even a glacial walker or magmite) can out-DPS a herc that isn't tanking (i.e., not contributing any damage through reflection.) (A phoenix is queen of DPS among pets, but can't be used in an instance.) This is particularly valuable against [?] bosses, as damage isn't reduced for level for pets.
Purge - no other class can remove self-buffs from bosses.
Archers with Lunar Bows can.0 -
did't u read what she siad..she don't have money to get nix/herc..she ask for pet to USe..not herc /nix somthing else close to that![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL0 -
Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »did't u read what she siad..she don't have money to get nix/herc..she ask for pet to USe..not herc /nix somthing else close to that!
If you can't understand what's being said, don't reply. That was a good list of things a veno brings to a squad without needing a legendary pet.
Edit in response to below: You obviously have no idea what I'm saying, so I can't talk to you.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The family is a haven in a heartless world.
Once a Guardian, Always a Guardian. Element: Fire.0 -
Hisuna - Sanctuary wrote: »If you can't understand what's being said, don't reply. That was a good list of things a veno brings to a squad without needing a legendary pet.
i did't say she don't ned them but..a veno w/o cna fine play..LOL ..that she said if she can play w/o have herc/nix and the answer is YES![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL0 -
Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »i did't say she don't ned them but..a veno w/o cna fine play..LOL i know many lvl 100s w no herc/nix..they are good
if ur 1 that need ovwerpored stuff to play..why not sy it out?
Can't you keep your babbling to your own threads?
Tapout 0 -
Toxic - Dreamweaver wrote: »Can't you keep your babbling to your own threads?
i tell the true..i lvl w/o herc/nix im lvl 9x..so it work^^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL0 -
Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »i did't say she don't ned them but..a veno w/o cna fine play..LOL ..that she said if she can play w/o have herc/nix and the answer is YES!
I'm sure it's possible to play w/o them but, Would herc/nix venos always be preferred over other venos? IMO, hercs and nixs are just one more thing that prove to me that free MMO's suck and the more you spend, the stronger you get. just a matter of who's richer...0 -
Foxy_chick - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm sure it's possible to play w/o them but, Would herc/nix venos always be preferred over other venos? IMO, hercs and nixs are just one more thing that prove to me that free MMO's suck and the more you spend, the stronger you get. just a matter of who's richer...
i know..GM make those to earn money..but u need skils.
FOR cash shoping don't make u pro.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL0 -
Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »i know..GM make those to earn money..but u need skils.
FOR cash shoping don't make u pro.
GMs don't make the game, they just deal with the community. Developers make the game.
Yes, free MMOs suck because of the Cash Shop Advantage, but this game is kind enough to allow you to purchace cash shop items and gold using in-game currency. Keep in mind, there are a lot of MMOs that force players to use real money if they want cash shop items.
Edit: cash shopping does make you pro. Try beating someone your level with full +12 event gear sharded with vit stones. I dare you.0 -
Expecially for Aniella... explenation of Mayfly's post...Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »Things a non-herc veno brings to the table:
Long range, cost-free (unless pet dies) luring
Amplify Damage - no other defense debuff skill lasts as long, and it stacks with others.
An extra DD - a high patk free pet (scorpion or dark wanderer, even a glacial walker or magmite) can out-DPS a herc that isn't tanking (i.e., not contributing any damage through reflection.) (A phoenix is queen of DPS among pets, but can't be used in an instance.) This is particularly valuable against [?] bosses, as damage isn't reduced for level for pets. As you see... she first names different FREE pets, which can be used as DDs on bosses and [?]. Herc is mentioned to show that there are pets which are better DDs than it. Pheonix is mentioned to avoid fuss from other venos, who would come to bash this veno for not mentioning uber-awesome-QQ-bird. But Pheonix can't be used in instances (TTs, FCCs, FBs, BHs, Nirvana, Lunar Glade), so he can be forgotten in this case. So we are left we are left with Herc as better tank and lot of FREE pets which can outdamage it. So if you don't have Herc, you should get one of those FREE pets as good damage dealers
Purge - no other class can remove self-buffs from bosses.
As for purge - archers with purge bow, bms with purge polearm. But those are random weapon skills, so can fix it as:
Purge - no other class can remove self buffs from bosses on purpose/when they want (ignoring cooldown)
Also adding:
Spark tank and other players as needed - Venomancer is the only class which can send sparks to other players. Use it. It can speed up killing (BM's HF), can save squad (Cleric's BB), save tank (barb's invoke)
Bramble - keep melee's brambled. It helps keep aggro better.
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Venomancers with herc doesn't mean this person is cashshopper. There is also a possibility that venomancer is simply hard worker who saved the money. I never charged and got my herc by saving when prices already sky-rocketed high... and I know few more venos who did the same.
As for skill... Atm there are so few good venomancers who did at least half of what was said at the first part of this post with out asking. At this point it doesn't matter if you have herc or not, cause seems most of venomancers don't do it anyway. With so many useless venomacers around, Herc-venos get prefered cause they can do at least one thing - tank.
If you can prove yourself as skilled venomancer, then having or not having herc doesn't matter.0 -
Foxy_chick - Heavens Tear wrote: »So I'm back to PWI from a long break, and i was wondering If I'd want to continue playing on my veno, or start a tideborne. As a veno, so far I've been terrible at PvP, duels...etc since I'm kinda squishy and everyone goes to attack the veno, not the pet. Also, I was wondering If I'd be having any role in PvE parties, other than luring, since I wont be able to afford a herc/nix. I've ran around archosaur for a while, Almost every high lvl veno either got one of those.
So i was wondering, would this char be of any use without one of those incredible expensive pets?
PVP >
- The bees and scorpions hurt, expecially at high levels.
- As you level, it would be best for you to add physical defense stones instead of hp stones.
- As you level, think about how to use your skills defensively. i.e. for barbarian, use your fox skills to immediately steal their chi, mana and stop hp regeneration. A barbarian w/o mana or chi is really a sitting duck to your pet. Use the fox form confuse, amply maim and go to human form to use your hardest hitting magic spells (since they are weak to magic).
PVE >
- Fast casting is the key to keeping your pet alive while they tank. The rock looking pets are actually very good at high levels. Understand what specific skills they need to hold aggro, and learn to use your fox skills to help curse the boss so it loses accuracy, your pets damage is amplified, and understand what element your mob is and which of your skills are effective against them.
- Venos do much more than luring. A veno can handle 1 mob as thier pet handles one mob. They have two self heals (one if in fox form) and can do things to slow or curse a mob/boss in fox. Venos do have high int if in robe so need to be careful about getting aggro from the tanker. A Veno also has an important role to continually send the barbarian (or tanker) chi using a special skill they have. Venos are very powerful at higher levels are are able to solo ALL of the TT solo modes (eventually). Venos are able to methodically move through any of the fbs, self-heal - self-tank and I did my own fb79 (alone), and my culti bosses (just about all) for all three of my fairys.
BTW I was able to do the last 3 bosses in FB69 with a level 100 dodo and a level 70 cleric. There is alot to be said for leveling these 'free' pets up taking advantage of their high attack or defense skills.Yestermoon - SB | Dawnglory0 -
Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »Things a non-herc veno brings to the table:
Long range, cost-free (unless pet dies) luring
Amplify Damage - no other defense debuff skill lasts as long, and it stacks with others.
An extra DD - a high patk free pet (scorpion or dark wanderer, even a glacial walker or magmite) can out-DPS a herc that isn't tanking (i.e., not contributing any damage through reflection.) (A phoenix is queen of DPS among pets, but can't be used in an instance.) This is particularly valuable against [?] bosses, as damage isn't reduced for level for pets.
Purge - no other class can remove self-buffs from bosses.
veno long range for what? its the only range class that has the lowest range from all classes
no, those scorp/magmite pets dont outdps herc. herc still has good atk rate and decent atk to get more DPS than those.
interval bm's with speark has a better chance to purge than archers do0 -
veno long range for what? its the only range class that has the lowest range from all classes
no, those scorp/magmite pets dont outdps herc. herc still has good atk rate and decent atk to get more DPS than those.
interval bm's with speark has a better chance to purge than archers do
Dark Wanderer at Lv. 101
3403*.8 =2722.4
Baby Hercules at Lv. 101
3266*.8 =2612.8
Varicose Scorpion at Lv. 101
4078*.6 =2446.8
One thing to consider about the Scorpion is that every multiplier skill used is going to boost it's damage more than the other pets. When it comes to PvP, that 3x with no damage reduction is going to be far more significant on the Scorpion than the other two. The Dark Wanderer has a clear DPS advantage over the Herc.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
that why i left Dark Wanderer outside. Dark Wanderer is the only pet that has a little more advantage in dps over herc if none tank
the others, scorp/magmite are under herc dps. considering skills, i think its more of a waste of time with them then improving dps. if you calculate dps with bash and claw for example between Dark Wanderer and Scorpion, Dark Wanderer will come first because of the pure damage not skills0 -
Foxy_chick - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm sure it's possible to play w/o them but, Would herc/nix venos always be preferred over other venos? IMO, hercs and nixs are just one more thing that prove to me that free MMO's suck and the more you spend, the stronger you get. just a matter of who's richer...
It's half and half, half the time Frost/BH/HH parties would want a veno with a herc to tank it for them (however a herc will always be out damaged by someone who doesn't keep an eye on their DPS). As long as you do your job of luring, amping, debuffing, and giving sparks you'll be fine.0 -
Venos are very powerful at higher levels are are able to solo ALL of the TT solo modes (eventually).
I *so* had to lol on this one... eventually we'll be able to solo the solo dungeons. Wow.Venos are able to methodically move through any of the fbs, self-heal - self-tank and I did my own fb79 (alone), and my culti bosses (just about all) for all three of my fairys.
Nice for you. Luminous Architect will probably be the last cultivation boss for me, as the next ones according to PurpleMelon are the FB59 bosses who are dealing way more damage than my Magmite can swallow. FB69 is out of the question as well (only looked up the boss with the letter, though) and I wouldn't expect boss damage output to go down on FB79.
But well, I could eventually solo the solo dungeons. That made my day :-)Slow progress, game is getting way too grindy :-( Quests I still hope to be able to do some day: FB39, General Feng0 -
Yindra - Sanctuary wrote: »Nice for you. Luminous Architect will probably be the last cultivation boss for me, as the next ones according to PurpleMelon are the FB59 bosses who are dealing way more damage than my Magmite can swallo
Get a marksman or other ranged pet so that the bosses will do nothing but cast while you heal. When you don't have a herc or nix, you have to be far more careful about your pet selection to get the job done.0 -
Foxy_chick - Heavens Tear wrote: »So I'm back to PWI from a long break, and i was wondering If I'd want to continue playing on my veno, or start a tideborne. As a veno, so far I've been terrible at PvP, duels...etc since I'm kinda squishy and everyone goes to attack the veno, not the pet. Also, I was wondering If I'd be having any role in PvE parties, other than luring, since I wont be able to afford a herc/nix. I've ran around archosaur for a while, Almost every high lvl veno either got one of those.
So i was wondering, would this char be of any use without one of those incredible expensive pets?
Up to you, thats your choice what char you want to play.
PVPing as a veno is really easy to do, if your fighting melee classes, make sure you use summer sprint and kite them with frost scarab and ironwood scarab and venomous scarab, if they get close, hit them with stunning blow and continue to run, keep them from distance till they get whooped. You can also get a pet skill called slow. Doesn't matter what pet you have, they will target you and not your pet. So make sure you kite the melees with your wood magic. If your fighting a caster, use fox form and spam melee skills and keep using fox wallop. They go down rather quickly. If your fighting an archer now, stay in close range, they are not good with close range, fox form on them or spells, depending on what ornmaments they use.
Squishy veno? Get some more HP / Physical defense. You'll need it, doesn't matter what pet you have, if you can't take a hit, then its pointless.
Your meant to amplify and purge, and debuff. most important for your role in squad
My veno may not be high LVLed, but she can kick major butt b:pleased why would I need a herc / nix if I can just tank the mobs / bosses myself? Venoes can make cool tankers. If your not VIT with few DEX or LA, then yeah, probably you will need a herc / nix[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »Venoes can make cool tankers. If your not VIT with few DEX or LA, then yeah, probably you will need a herc / nix
How much HP you get per vit as Veno? -Now how much as Barb or BM? How many aggro skills does veno have? -How many does Barb or BM? How much matk does Veno get from mag? -Now how much does a Wiz?
Sure I end up tanking around fail wizzies, BMs, Barbs, and Archers, but building a veno as a tank?
In this event, we are scoring up their with Wizards. The event doesn't count amps, sage soul degeneration, reflect, pdef reduction, etc to our favor. Our strength is as DD, not tank.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
you do realize that most pvp or tw is in the air and those slow skill have no effect thee?
you do realize that you cant be vit and LA in the same time as a veno?
you do realize that frost scarab is always a waste of chi unless you go demon and learn the book?
you do realize that fox wallop and stunning blow are a waste of chi and by the time you go in melee range (other than purge/amp that has sme range) you are probably dead?
always listen to yulk coz his highest char is probably his 55 barb and has zero kills on any of his characters. he nver experienced high lvls or pvp
well on my server most wiz that are a factor score alot better than venos but there is also gear involved even if you do the trick with nix on a mob and you on another one. plus wizards like to do bids on bosses and kill a good chunk of the players around the boss in one shot xDIn this event, we are scoring up their with Wizards. The event doesn't count amps, sage soul degeneration, pdef reduction, etc to our favor. Our strength is as DD, not tank.0 -
How much HP you get per vit as Veno? -Now how much as Barb or BM? How many aggro skills does veno have? -How many does Barb or BM? How much matk does Veno get from mag? -Now how much does a Wiz?
VIT, p.def, elemental defense bonus in gears help too, Sparks can help with aggro management. Not that hard unless if assassin or psychic in squad lol
Sure I end up tanking around fail wizzies, BMs, Barbs, and Archers, but building a veno as a tank?
In this event, we are scoring up their with Wizards. The event doesn't count amps, sage soul degeneration, reflect, pdef reduction, etc to our favor. Our strength is as DD, not tank.
As far as I can tell, Ironwood scarab is the only real DD skill. DOTs are timed. To really DD, Spark works for DDing for any class. They may not get HP bonus as barb / BM, but they have HP heal / steal and soul transfusion. easy to get HP back upyou do realize that most pvp or tw is in the air and those slow skill have no effect thee?
you do realize that you cant be vit and LA in the same time as a veno?
you do realize that frost scarab is always a waste of chi unless you go demon and learn the book?
you do realize that fox wallop and stunning blow are a waste of chi and by the time you go in melee range (other than purge/amp that has sme range) you are probably dead?
always listen to yulk coz his highest char is probably his 55 barb and has zero kills on any of his characters. he nver experienced high lvls or pvp
well on my server most wiz that are a factor score alot better than venos but there is also gear involved even if you do the trick with nix on a mob and you on another one. plus wizards like to do bids on bosses and kill a good chunk of the players around the boss in one shot xD
I noticed slow don't work in air long time, which is better off to force your opponents on ground.
I saiid VIT or LA, not VIT and LA. You can get VIT in equipment.
You failed in that arguement there, you do realize frost scarab slow lasts 9 seconds right? I done this already. Combined with summer sprint, its easier control.
Again, fox wallop is meant for pesky casters, I got beat by a veno that used fox wallop on my cleric, my spells got slowed down and was interupted more often. Stunning blow is lso situational, so far for 5 seconds is really easy to get away
Again, melee range against melee is tricky, its meant when they about to reach you, you need to use immobilize... but against archers and casters, you must be really silly to stay at range LOL. Especially archers, you forgot archers do more damage at range than melee? Exactly, I done this against archer, go read the last post on that thread about me saying PVP is garbage, you will see screenie of me dueling an archer twice my LVL which lasted a bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3GwMUZt7AQ check the VID. This archer was clearly in melee range. Yes fail fight, you will see it, the archer was cheating too lol
I did some duels to experience, not PK, besides, PK is bugged.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
Yulk, you added words in your quote of me. You think Ironwood is only real DD skill. You seem to think that other dd's can't out dd you without your pet if given equal stats. Are you a troll or are you going to apologize for misquoting me, and talking out your butt?Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0
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Yindra - Sanctuary wrote: »I wouldn't expect boss damage output to go down on FB79.
You'd be wrong about that. 79 is an order of magnitude easier than 69, provided you're able to lure archer mobs.
The bosses in there are just a cakewalk.
In general though - a veno with a herc can do more than a veno without one.
But a veno without one can still do a lot.0 -
Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »In general though - a veno with a herc can do more than a veno without one.
But a veno without one can still do a lot.
Kinda what I wanted to hear. I hope I feel less like trash now when a veno in my pt summons her herc. What makes this kinda more sucky, is that the cost of hercs seems impossible to achieve without spending real $.
<--Foxy_Chick~Ops wrong avatar.0 -
Kinda what I wanted to hear. I hope I feel less like trash now when a veno in my pt summons her herc. What makes this kinda more sucky, is that the cost of hercs seems impossible to achieve without spending real $.
<--Foxy_Chick~Ops wrong avatar.
There's certainly little value in having a SECOND herc in a squad. I'm always ashamed that my other pets aren't sufficiently levelled to usefully contribute.0 -
i pk alot..even take lvl 100s in duel w no prob..so don't need realy a owerpowred pet..just need to know ur moves and..others wekness. u will be a fail venon if u relying to much on pet..[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL0 -
Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »There's certainly little value in having a SECOND herc in a squad. I'm always ashamed that my other pets aren't sufficiently levelled to usefully contribute.
I've raised a Dark Wanderer to 101 and despite my plans to use it in FB79, I don't. There are too many magic mobs between phys ones which slows me down considerably. With the Herc out, I can keep a good pace. For tanking Stygean, well it only takes a Sin, Psy, or Claw BM in squad to steal aggro. I'd say there's a lot of value in having a second Herc there. If the argument was bout FF(FC), I'd agree.Be kind: Help the GMs to depopulate the servers.0 -
I'm mainly thinking of the bosses - only one herc (at most) is going to be the tank, so why not do something more useful with the second (and third, and fourth, and fifth... there's a LOT of veno's in our faction) pet.
Admittedly, 79 is an odd case because there you can easily tank two bosses at once.0
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