The Economy

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Jennalicious - Sanctuary wrote: »

The economy sucks. It has for a while now and it shows no signs of any improvement anytime soon. Because of this, the game is trash. Find a new game.

Then for the love of FSM, and all things Holy - if you don't play this game anymore, GTFO the forums.

The whole "I don't play anymore, I just waste my time plonking newbies in the forum" **** is played out and *seriously* depressing.

I realize Those Of You That Have Self-Righteously Quit This FAILzor Game are yards better than us - I mean, OBVIOUSLY.

So why do you insist on lectureing the rest of us losers? Don't you have another game or 5 to "I've been here since the start and I'm much better than you" than this one?

RedMenace

\<sigh>
\\pointless rant
\\\<wipes spittle from monitor and goes back to work>

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Then for the love of FSM, and all things Holy - if you don't play this game anymore, GTFO the forums.

The whole "I don't play anymore, I just waste my time plonking newbies in the forum" **** is played out and *seriously* depressing.

I realize Those Of You That Have Self-Righteously Quit This FAILzor Game are yards better than us - I mean, OBVIOUSLY.

So why do you insist on lectureing the rest of us losers? Don't you have another game or 5 to "I've been here since the start and I'm much better than you" than this one?

RedMenace

\<sigh>
\\pointless rant
\\\<wipes spittle from monitor and goes back to work>

Same for you and your lecturing everyone else on what they are or are not allowed to complain about....

BTW spelling lecture for you.. Drop the E when adding ING b:chuckle b:bye

Vienna - Dreamweaver

'' That happens to most F2P MMOs. It so cool for the first year, then it's nothing.''

I agree. After some time developers getting to greedy and PWI is nothing different. PWI have tun to an ordinary hardcore (coin) grinder and nothing else, which is a killer for major of population ( casual players ). Im even not supriced that i dont see many newbies anymore, mostly alts. But by so many upcoming mmorpgs in this year, it won't be hard to find something else to play.

Magicgabe - Lost City

I make money by "buy-low-sell-high". It aint all that hard. You only need about 300k to get started. I made around 700k so far this week by just doing that. Your investment of 300k will increase exponentially. People forget that liquidity has its own value. Also, I don't have to work hard either. This week I've only been playing during the 9pm nein beast events really. sriously, stop complaining. End game gear is supposed to be expensive. Yes, packs have done wacko things to the economy, but there's a bright side to them. Do any of you remember when flawless shards used to cost millions? I do. Any of you remember the days when a cleric HAD to have an MP charm in HH? I do. My life has been made better with tokens and packs. Yes I've charged zen before($60 in the past two years). I bought a few things that I can apprecite( wings, inventory space, a 79 skill). But hey, i got a total of 21 months out of this game so far. Thats around 2 dollars a month. Will I continue to play? yes.

Reshanta - Sanctuary

All I've read in this thread is people wanting ways to make everyone broke, which is just as detrimental to an in-game economy and fun factor.

Nakhimov - Lost City

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Then for the love of FSM, and all things Holy - if you don't play this game anymore, GTFO the forums.

No.

So why do you insist on lectureing the rest of us losers? Don't you have another game or 5 to "I've been here since the start and I'm much better than you" than this one?

I have as much right to be on these forums as any current or future player. I do play other games now, yes, but I was active on these forums during my play time as well, and I'm telling people pretty much the same things I did then. The fact that I quit has little bearing on my forum posts.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Sanctam - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So I've been thinking a lot about the economy of Perfect World lately.

everybody has

Now, right now we are seeing the largest inflation of the value of coin in awhile.

False. There was a time gold was up 500-600k for a good while, and it wasnt a 2-3day sale time. To me atm seems almost a stabalization, not an inflation.

So yeah. Thoughts?

make a token only pack? they trade for useful **** lol

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Someone must do time travel to stop Anni Pack from coming, but . .
Maybe their serious choice to make Anni Pack contain such items . . is because they were in emergency ? Of needing quick amount of money or saving something ? b:surrender

Then at last don't make Anni Pack (and many other pack) contain end game gear, because i am sure what makes people want to buy it so much (cause gold inflation) because of end game inside it.
(i don't think aerocraft, mount, gem, token of best luck, is the main reason people want to buy it so much)

And i am also tired if someone brag about current economy to me, i am trying to not think about the economy. b:shutup

MagicHamsta - Lost City

*facepaw*
Even a hamster can understand monies better than most of the human population...
....and we don't even use monies!
Dx

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

False. There was a time gold was up 500-600k for a good while, and it wasnt a 2-3day sale time. To me atm seems almost a stabalization, not an inflation.

Yeah, I think I'd have to agree on that. Before it was purely pack driven. Now it seems to be corrected rather than inflated as the gold prices usually dip after a few weeks of pack sales rather than increases. After packs, stones and orbs are taken out we'll see where were sitting at, but it doesn't look like gold will be dipping below 400k for some time to come.

TigerLily - Lost City

Its not so much packs now, its all the x2 events leading to no one charging gold.

Many of those people that use to cash shop heavily dont need to anymore, they have pretty much all event/Nirvana gear they need, they have amazing chars that allows them to solo/duo speed farm most high lvl instances in 20-30 min.

When you have all the gear you want and can make massive amount of money farming without any bigger effort, you really wont spend irl cash.

Even with packs in cash shop, gold was down at 350+ something before all x2 events started.

People are pretty funny tho, they think x2 events benefit the lower lvl and poor people, since they get more DQ drops from grinding, or can get that 80 weapon in 2 runs. While they're doing that, grinding happily for 300k per hour thinking they get rich, endgame geared 100+ farmers are making 50 mil each day in 3-3. Than people wonder why gold is 500k and complain about cash shoppers for some odd reason, when its the other way around, not enough people cash shop anymore b:surrender

Lythianaa - Dreamweaver

I think I'm trying to see how the PWI economy is doing more and more and understand it a bit better from reading this thread. I am still new to the whole merchanting thing, but I do have to agree that 2x does mess things up often. We got much cheaper TT mats now since they are overfarmed and the 2x drop rate grants more items. We have molds that are dropping in price as well, or have dropped. The packs aren't gone. And since it's 2x drop, more coins and the prices go up due more coins going around.

No idea, but sometimes I like 2x, sometimes I don't. I think it's subjective but once you visit the AH or west district, b:cry

Nukesrus - Harshlands

Someone needs to start a player petition to remove the 10 mil big note from the Best Luck rewards. Then PWI could safely:

1: Increase best luck drop rate, encouraging MORE people to buy packs, thus increasing their bottom line.


2: Wrestle the economy back under control slowly.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

everybody has


False. There was a time gold was up 500-600k for a good while, and it wasnt a 2-3day sale time. To me atm seems almost a stabalization, not an inflation.


make a token only pack? they trade for useful **** lol

500-600k gold? Are you talking about when Annis first came out? I think it went up that much because people all thought that they were a limited thing and won't come back for another year or so.

I've always thought 2x events do more harm than good. The only people who actually get any sort of real substantial profit out of 2x's are those high levels farming high level instances. Low levels are happy that they farmed their tt90 gear in half the time while high levels are making 50 100 mil every other day. Pump that money into buying gold and gold price hiked and then we all suffer :P.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

500-600k gold? Are you talking about when Annis first came out? I think it went up that much because people all thought that they were a limited thing and won't come back for another year or so.

I've always thought 2x events do more harm than good. The only people who actually get any sort of real substantial profit out of 2x's are those high levels farming high level instances. Low levels are happy that they farmed their tt90 gear in half the time while high levels are making 50 100 mil every other day. Pump that money into buying gold and gold price hiked and then we all suffer :P.

Its honestly a brilliant move on the part of PWE, so they wont stop it. Think about it, so many dont understand the destructive effect of 2x events. PWE can throw these events, make a huge chunk of players happy & cheer. Meanwhile, the price of gold goes up, which causes the supply side to grow, thus more people charging zen (to sell it, but PWE doesnt care what reason its bought for).

Players cheer (due to lack of knowledge) at 2x
PWE makes more money

Its win win (sort of), except the game itself suffers for it.

Nukesrus - Harshlands wrote: »

Someone needs to start a player petition to remove the 10 mil big note from the Best Luck rewards. Then PWI could safely:

1: Increase best luck drop rate, encouraging MORE people to buy packs, thus increasing their bottom line.


2: Wrestle the economy back under control slowly.

Been trying to draw people's attention to this problem forever.

Petition Signed.

Kokki - Harshlands

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

No, it's not. It's the majority of regular cash-shoppers, merchanters and farmers who are farming their asses off with their 'cash-shopped end-game gear' and are no longer spending real money, but still burn up gold at ridiculous prices.

Example: Me farming 3-3 for gold mats, selling them and buying Ocean Orbs. For each Ocean Orb that is purchased with in-game coin, that drives the gold prices higher. I'm not going to sit around to wait for my buy price, I'll just purchase gold from the sellers with the lowest offers.... hence drying up the market for lower gold prices and increases everyone's offers to buy.

I'm only a casual cash shopper, but most of the major cash shoppers... the ones who regularly sell gold are no longer doing that, instead they are purchasing gold at higher prices because they no longer cash shop because they don't need to. They sit there and farm now, and end up using the profits generated from farming Nirvana or HH to buy gold.

Why should I spend another cent in-game when I can farm 3-3 like mad during 2x, use that money and the money I get from merchanting to buy the gold I need?

The 'general population' isn't spending 100m coin to buy a several Ocean Orbs to further refine their gear. They certainly aren't doing it with in-game coin either. Only the absurdly geared are.

I'm a 5aps BM. I have all of my end-game gear already. All I am currently doing is refining. I just got all my armor to +5. I have two +10 weapons, one +10 refine was completely farmed with in-game coin. Do you think I'm going to spend any more real-life money for refines? lol. Not a chance. Will it hurt and drive the gold prices because I'll be buying hundreds in gold with farmed money? Absolutely.

If I buy 75 gold with coin right now, I would raise the low sell price from 499k to 510. That's if I only want one Ocean Orb. That would also purchase 1/3 of the currently offered Gold for sale. If I were to buy 3 with in-game coin, I would have purchased all the gold currently in the AH. Would it be replenished, sure, over the span of a few hours. Think that wouldn't drive prices at all? You're high.

Go look at your Gold Trader. What would happen to prices if just one person bought 3 Ocean Orbs with in-game coin. What would that immediately do to prices?

The effects of 2x is finally starting to show in the gold trader. Of course it wasn't immediate because the connection isn't direct.

Also, let me add that there are more factors to this as well, I'm just posting one example of why the prices of gold are skyrocketing. Nein Beast is also introducing a lot of coin thorugh excitement and ecstasy cards as well now. Perfect Tokens of Best Luck are great contributors to the coin supply as well.




That's probably the first thing I've seen you actually say that I can agree with. .

^

This

Last night i dried up all the gold in AH by buying 3 dragon orb ocean for only my weapon.

That jacked up the prices from 411K instantly to 420K over the course of 2 minutes.

And i still have gold in auction house to buy, because i only got 2 orbs, and like 53 gold for the third one.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Kokki - Harshlands wrote: »

^

This

Last night i dried up all the gold in AH by buying 3 dragon orb ocean for only my weapon.

That jacked up the prices from 411K instantly to 420K over the course of 2 minutes.

And i still have gold in auction house to buy, because i only got 2 orbs, and like 53 gold for the third one.

Exactly And, we're only two people... there are dozens of people on my server thinking and doing the exact same thing. Gold was 440k right when the Ocean Orbs were announced. A friend bought up ALL the gold in the AH before the maintenance. After, it never went lower than 460k. Right now it's at 500k high buy and 505k low sell, however the bulk of the gold is being offered at 510k and there is only about 100 gold visible in the GT window. If I bought 75 gold with coin right now I would bump the price of gold to 515k. Would it come down or would the bidding price come up? It's hard to say but more than likely it would increase slightly rather than go down. That's just one Ocean Orb.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

People are pretty funny tho, they think x2 events benefit the lower lvl and poor people, since they get more DQ drops from grinding, or can get that 80 weapon in 2 runs. While they're doing that, grinding happily for 300k per hour thinking they get rich, endgame geared 100+ farmers are making 50 mil each day in 3-3. Than people wonder why gold is 500k and complain about cash shoppers for some odd reason, when its the other way around, not enough people cash shop anymore b:surrender

Actually, it's the same thing.

Without 2x the 100+ farmers would make 25 mil each day, and the grinders 150k per hour.

The ratio is the same.

Of course you wouldn't agree, but the obvious problem here is, high level people with uber gears who just farm too much. If you NERF drop rates, the ratio is still the same. In fact, lower drop rates is worse and here is why.

All that accomplishes is making the ungeared people struggle to get their gear more (because the crafting process is static, i.e it costs a certain amount of mats). Which would make the difference between the already geared and the lower levels even higher.

Think if getting to 100 required, I dunno, a year. Think of a lowbie who makes 100k per day and a uber geared who makes 25 mil per day. Now, what helps the lowbie more, getting easier to 100, or him staying at 100k/day income for a year in contrast to the uber geared one?


If you are a high level and concerned about the economy, you are one of the problems. Not 2x. Don't blame something else for your excessive farming.

Jennalicious - Sanctuary

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Then for the love of FSM, and all things Holy - if you don't play this game anymore, GTFO the forums.

The whole "I don't play anymore, I just waste my time plonking newbies in the forum" **** is played out and *seriously* depressing.

I realize Those Of You That Have Self-Righteously Quit This FAILzor Game are yards better than us - I mean, OBVIOUSLY.

So why do you insist on lectureing the rest of us losers? Don't you have another game or 5 to "I've been here since the start and I'm much better than you" than this one?

RedMenace

\<sigh>
\\pointless rant
\\\<wipes spittle from monitor and goes back to work>

^ Another fanboy ^

If you don't like what I type here, then you can GTFO. Why do I do it? Because I can. QQ more. b:pleased

At least you have accepted the fact that you are a loser. You're one step above most others on the PWI 12 step program.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

lol, but it s 2x which encourage OP 100lvls to farm instances and over-flood market with super cheap mats and nerfing prices by even /10 sometimes

without 2x, prices would drop 'naturaly', much, much slower.
i remeber that from 1-2, when we started to farm it.
are u aware that on my low 70s i was able to earn 400-800k per just one TT 1-2 run?
lol i remember that our main concerns were about herced venos who speed up lowering prices greatly

now you can make similar money on 90s only in TT2-3 (and 2-3 is exception, because u wont make that in 3-1 or 3-3 without gold drop).


so not rly- 2x wont make getting to 100 for lowbie easier. it will produce tons of 90lvl ppl with +1 gear and without maxed skills. Then when they finally reach 100lvl, nirvana III will be implemented for 110+ lvls only and farming tt or nirvana I will be unprofitable (i reserve rights for names :P).


pwi economy is becoming bit like oligarchy, where just few most wealthy can earn money..

Borsuc - Raging Tide

I agree that 2x encourages people to farm more... but, it's not the 2x effect per se that is "harming" the economy, it's people farming more. You can blame 2x for having that psychological effect, if you want. I agree with that.

Likewise, when people blame 2x for making TT mat prices cheaper in the market... it's not the 2x they actually blame, it's people farming more. 2x encourages more people to farm TTs. Because, halving the prices of TT mats shouldn't be a problem as long as you get double mats (well actually it is only a small part, because people get their gear faster that way so less demand). It doesn't warrant though the fact that prices drop so much. It's simply because more people farm.

But it doesn't, actually, change the ratio between different type of farmers (high lvl versus grinding lowbies).

(for example, if people get twice as many coins during 2x, then double gold prices is not a "bad" thing compared to before, and gold raises much lower anyway, it's not as affected by 2x)

And I never said 2x helps get to 100 easier (well it does but only a tiny bit), that was only an example with exp :P

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Likewise, when people blame 2x for making TT mat prices cheaper in the market... it's not the 2x they actually blame, it's people farming more. 2x encourages more people to farm TTs.

Now you're mindlessly arguing semantics. I would hope that you're bright enough to realize the difference is not a difference at all. 2x = more people farming = 2x making mat prices hit bottom. The net effect is the same. The only exception is that mat prices don't drop to 1/2 of their original value, more like 1/3-1/4. When supply exceeds demand, prices drop to nothing. Getting a rare mold used to be a nice treat... now there's not really such a thing as a rare mold, which is good for you, cause the game would be too difficult for you if it were.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

You are right that it does drop to 1/3-1/4 or more, because like I said, it's the psychological effect of more people finding it "worthy". Especially DDs. (not that I didn't fall for this before, but now I am calculating my chances instead from pwdatabase.com after I squad up, depending on squad :P). If this wasn't true (psychological effect), worst case scenario would be 1/3 (less demand BECAUSE the crafting process requires same amount) but obviously it's worse than that. It's also because more people run TTs to craft their own instead of buying.

So it's really the people to blame here, for the most part.