Humans vs. Untamed vs. Elves vs. Tideborn

Longknife - Harshlands

Blademaster and Wizard vs. Barb and Venomancer vs. Archer and Cleric vs. Psychic and Assassin. Who wins?


My money's on either the Untamed or the Tideborn, personally.
Also spare me the "evury race is gud!!1 it depends on ur skill and believing in da hart of da cards!11 YUGIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH" ****. This thread is meant to be semi light-hearted, and comments like that always just kill any and all discussion right at the start, anyways. That's no fun. :C


Now gogogogo lemme hear your bets.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Before these thread start getting replies let me put on flame shield. b:cool
Just in case if i see some little flame . . to escape before they become too big.

Human.
Stun + 5aspd + bids ? b:faint
BM has their ncrease move speed (2), leaps, and wizard can teleport, they can use those to buy time. If enemy team has dangerous buff up.

Untamed come close because veno keep barb sparked + bramble and sent air pet or fast moving pet to make mage class busy, veno can goes feral concentration if everyone focus on her. Or veno can help amplify or debuff the melee class. Well you know barb . .

Elves actually pretty nice too because of they were both ranged class with metal damage.
If they can keep them self safe from bad status, they can quickly bring down someone. Archer can just go do full attack and cleric revive archer if archer died ? b:chuckle I dunno if using BoA and BB is a good thing. o.0

For tideborn . . somehow i feel they more like goes to individual battle, where they just goes 1 vs 1. Because assassin is not so strong if it a team battle.

Btw don't think i am really suggesting cleric to revive arche.r xD

truekossy

I play the fish in defense mode. Then I sacrifice the melted butter tosummon the furries in attack mode.

Longknife - Harshlands

The only counter I see for the 5aps BM is either a silence skill or a Psy's Psychic Will.



Human vs Tideborn I can see this way:

Match starts, Sin is invisible, forcing the two to focus on Psychic. Psychic's Earth Vector can't outcast a Wizard's Force of Will and can't stun a BM with Will of the Bodhisatva, so the Psy would want to start with a Psy will. Sin's Shadow Teleport outcasts Wizard's Force of Will, stunning the Wiz for 3 seconds, giving the Sin opportunities to use other ailments. Wiz is probably doomed here unless the BM backs him up. BM backing him up might be a bad idea though, cause that gives the Psy a perfect chance to AOE both the BM and Wiz together. On the other hand, the BM can only Roar of Pride to stun the Psy, and then the Sin will probably be done with the Wiz by the time Psychic Will/Roar of Pride wear off, so the BM would be fighting 2v1. Another option for Psy at the beginning is Soulburn on the BM, which would basically be a suicide assault that would kill both of them OR it would force the BM to leave the Psy alone.


Reason I put my money on either Untamed or Tideborn is because those seem like the two extremes. To me, Untamed have the best combined defense and the Tideborn have the best combined offense. I'd actually say the Humans have the best combined offense, but the Tideborn are a close second, and they have very nice tricks up their sleeves to cover their defense. (stealth, Psy will, Soulburn)

Shevanel - Sanctuary

you act as if an end game wizard would get owned that easy by an end game sin.

Theres genies, Apoths etc that can help. As soon as sin sleeps/stuns/silences the wizzie, all he has to do it his Expel and silence the sin for ~11 seconds. THEN what? Wizzie has all the time in the world to finish off the sin.

I think archer will pick off wizzie as wizzie picks off barb as barb and BM wrestle it out as veno picks off cleric and psy with nix. Heavens flame + Sutra Mountain seize and black Ice dragon wouuld kill everything I'd imagine. Unless HF misses sin..
IDK, fun idea, Im biased towards a mage and BM combo, as I've done it a bit.

Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary

Wizzies and bm's have skillsets that allow for comboing, at least significantly more than sin and psy. But yeah, it comes down to skill. I voted humans anyway. I would think untamed could come next, but they dont have very good heals :x

Longknife - Harshlands

Shevanel - Sanctuary wrote: »

you act as if an end game wizard would get owned that easy by an end game sin.

Theres genies, Apoths etc that can help. As soon as sin sleeps/stuns/silences the wizzie, all he has to do it his Expel and silence the sin for ~11 seconds. THEN what? Wizzie has all the time in the world to finish off the sin.

I think archer will pick off wizzie as wizzie picks off barb as barb and BM wrestle it out as veno picks off cleric and psy with nix. Heavens flame + Sutra Mountain seize and black Ice dragon wouuld kill everything I'd imagine. Unless HF misses sin..
IDK, fun idea, Im biased towards a mage and BM combo, as I've done it a bit.

K two things:



1) I meant this as 2 on 2. It's not all 8 classes brawling together, it's 2 on 2, and which race would rank best when pit against all the other races. Why? Cause if it's 2 on 2 on 2 on 2, then there's tons of possibilities as to who goes after who. If it's 2 on 2 however, then it's pretty logical. For instance, in my Human vs. Tideborn example, it's absolutely logical for the sin to immediately stun the wizard, otherwise the Psychic is doomed. (not to mention wtf those guys hurt like hell) This way, we can sort of see a path of how things would go down in an "ideal" situation.


2) Let's leave apothecary and genies out of this. Why? Well by your logic, then every single **** on the battlefield could expel. Like, your argument was "the wizzie would expel the sin." I could easily say "oh yah?! The sin would get his expel genie off first!" We'd also see "YA well the BM would use a magic resistance herb!" arguments, which are kinda bleh too. There's no way to prove who would get theirs off first, and thus it's absolutely useless to include apothecary and genie skills in this. The only genie skills I'd even consider including are the ones exclusive to a specific class.

VenoProwl - Raging Tide

Bramble Hood works in this situation, everyone AoEs together, everyone dies. b:laugh

Longknife - Harshlands

Y'know what's sad is, no matter what class match-up I think of....


Elves...kinda suck. 8D

Hypnos - Raging Tide

I say human win...

Zerk Spear (lunar) BM is a force to reckon with...more deathly than 5aps BM in pvp tbh...great range, high spike damage, high enough dex and vit.
Endgame wiz ... hard to kill...hit like a truck...yea the wiz may even have more def than mdef w/o BM buff. With bm buff... >.>
Psychic will get sleep by wizard (sorophic whysper- instant) while the bm approach and start stun lock the psy.
So yea...Human > Tideborn.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

If everyone confused what i pick on my earlier post, it was human. b:bye

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Y'know what's sad is, no matter what class match-up I think of....


Elves...kinda suck. 8D

Kinda . . agree . . b:surrender

Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear

sin and psy , well timed it s a combo stun lock kill x)

Longknife - Harshlands

Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »

I say human win...

Zerk Spear (lunar) BM is a force to reckon with...more deathly than 5aps BM in pvp tbh...great range, high spike damage, high enough dex and vit.
Endgame wiz ... hard to kill...hit like a truck...yea the wiz may even have more def than mdef w/o BM buff. With bm buff... >.>
Psychic will get sleep by wizard (sorophic whysper- instant) while the bm approach and start stun lock the psy.
So yea...Human > Tideborn.

Yeah thought of that too. The Psy would be put to sleep OR the Wiz would be stunned. The entire fight would practically depend on that.
I still think I'd be in favor of the Tideborn winning there though. If the Wiz is stunned, it's pretty much game over. If the Psy is put to sleep before the Wiz is stunned, the Psy could still be an issue for the BM with a combo of White voodoo, SoR and Soul of Silence. Then again, a wiz with both Earth shield and the BM phys defense buff is also no easy kill. Tough call.

Really it actually kinda looks like the Humans and the Tideborn are the most threatening instead of the Tideborn and Untamed, mostly because a Wiz can immediately sleep or silence a target and a sin can immediately stun a target, while both BMs and Psys are quite threatening opponents themselves with a nice lineup of status ailments. Barb/veno and Archer/Cleric lack any instant-cast ailments, and their ailment lineup simply doesn't compete with that of a BM or Psy.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Everyone not forget how many stun BM have right (also the aoe stun) also Wizard Force of Will. b:surrender
And see 2 skill that has same effect on Assassin and BM (Maze Steps & Will of the Bodhisatva) BM version last 5 second longer.
And don't forget psychic don't have direct escape skill like Wizard, but psy have Psychic will now i am confused again. b:surrender
And these also about who get focused . . BM and Wizard both has decent magical defense and physical defense after using their skill.
It's just human has more disable & escape skill, on tideborn only assassin has lots escape skill. b:surrender
I think these depend if the assassin get stunned & disable lock or not . .
Eh maybe not .. i forget Assassin is class that playing can play around with luck . . tidal protection, focused mind, deaden nerves . .
Well need more replies.

Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Everyone not forget how many stun BM have right (also the aoe stun) also Wizard Force of Will. b:surrender
And see 2 skill that has same effect on Assassin and BM (Maze Steps & Will of the Bodhisatva) BM version last 5 second longer.
And don't forget psychic don't have direct escape skill like Wizard, but psy have Psychic will now i am confused again. b:surrender
And these also about who get focused . . BM and Wizard both has decent magical defense and physical defense after using their skill.
It's just human has more disable & escape skill, on tideborn only assassin has lots escape skill. b:surrender
I think these depend if the assassin get stunned & disable lock or not . .
Eh maybe not .. i forget Assassin is class that playing can play around with luck . . tidal protection, focused mind, deaden nerves . .
Well need more replies.

3 skills that slow (with 2 of them by 80%), 2 stun, 1 anti negative effect, immun to phys dmg, soulburn (bm try to hit with 5aps = suicide), silence buff, white voodoo, heal over time, seal, increase oponent chan by 80%, instant chan

But yeah psy don t have lot of escape skills b:scorn

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

3 skills that slow (with 2 of them by 80%), 2 stun, 1 anti negative effect, immun to phys dmg, soulburn (bm try to hit with 5aps = suicide), silence buff, white voodoo, heal over time, seal, increase oponent chan by 80%, instant chan

But yeah psy don t have lot of escape skills b:scorn

How you match wizard distance shrink, it can be used to escape enemies with dangerous buff or coming to them suddenly. Can be used to escape soulburn too and if assassin coming to disable wizard, BM can stun assassin right after that. Then wizard use Soporific Whisper together disable lock assassin. (if assassin luck skills not tackle in)
BM weapon is not just fist or claw right, they have spear that can reach long range and aoe in a line. And if humans target psy one of them eventually will get soulburn so i guess it better to focus on assassin ? Especially because psychic soul skill asking to get attacked.what humans have to watch is not stay to close so they not get stunned by psychic Earth Vector but still close enough so BM can save Wizard if wiz can't escape from assassin disable.

And if assassin decide to coming in stealth with maze steps on to run away if got disabled, the battle will just goes to run around for awhile but BM Will of the Bodhisatva has shorter cooldown than Maze Steps. I guess it's also race for BM & assassin who get chi first . . (sin hand down on that one . .)
Somehow i feel what deciding is assassin lucky skill tackle in or not . . b:surrender
Escape death, escape damage, escape bad status ?!

Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear

I ll answer you in pm don t wanna necro more b:bye

Jiblet - Sanctuary

This sounds fun....I'll find me a BM if any sin/psych on Sanc want to partay (or any other class for that matter?)b:laugh

Sedokk - Harshlands

HUMANS FTW!!!

but seriously, i dont know, i just hit 30 so i dont know whats good for pvp or not XD

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I ll answer you in pm don t wanna necro more b:bye

Lol wut ? Necro what ? o_0 b:surrender These thread is made today by Longknife.
Ho i am sorry if me make you angry or something like that . .
I only have 3 day left before Short Semester begin, please no serious business or serious debate.
I just left the thread kk . . cya . . b:bye
Note : I won't check my personal message box.

Kai_Umi - Heavens Tear

I m not angry XD

PS: As you won t check your pm here is what i said :

To make short try to stay out of range of a psy earth vector, soulburn or w/e 28.5 metter range especially with 80% slow on you or if you get seal. And if any danger is coming a psy can just holly path away / use immun to phys / or white voodoo and tank the dmg with vigor and buble of life assuming the psy don t fight back and the sin let you do.

Longknife - Harshlands

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

How you match wizard distance shrink, it can be used to escape enemies with dangerous buff or coming to them suddenly.

Oh snap....


I wonder what happens if a Wiz Distance Shrinks and a Sin Shadow teleports said Wiz....
At the exact. same. time... 8O

Can be used to escape soulburn too

wat

Lyonna_S - Sanctuary

To be honest, none of them win or lose

Human : you need them to strengthen u up
Proof : Bm's defend buff, Bm's stun, Bm's run, Bm's aoe, wiz's buff, wiz's heal, wiz's aoe and high DD etc.

Elves : you can't stay alive or being fast without them
proof: cleric (this explain everything already), Archer's high DD and sharptooth and speed's buff

Untamed : they keep u alive and good at luring
Proof: Barb's aggro skill, barb's high HP, veno's luring skill and their herc and bramble and etc.

Tideborn : They are good at DD and surviving and luring
Proof: Psy and sin's high DD, their shell and their bloodpaint buff's, psy's heal, sin's luring skill

so... I vote nuffin :P

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Oh i see Kai_Umi.

Well what i mean by escape from soulburn is just get out from there with distance shrink (after receiving soulburn buff, and it safer if wiz using demon shrink) and not attacking (same with BM just run too maybe with leap then regular move speed skill) BM must be always close to Wizard but not so close to escape from enemy team aoe. Especially because Assassins may just go stealh, that where BM may need leap skills. If assassin decided to follow Wizard (that just using distance shrink) with Shadow Jump (or just come close with stealth) BM have to quickly come there to stop assassin from making fun of the Wizard. b:laugh At these part assassin might pick to flee or take risk of keep killing the Wizard. If assassin decide to flee humans can try to use genie skill like alpha male to reveal sin back right after disappear. These need good communication between BM and Wizard especially to read what's going on, especially if the psychic always trying to use Glacial Shards or Earth Vector while they were close with assassins. (well it's team battle after all) Also Wizard will gain more physical defense from BM Aura of the Golden bell. And, hey everyone has genie. b:pleased
Though there another thing to be counted, psy can cast SoSilence to assassin so assassin can escape from disable lock and kill wiz quickly. (lol wut sin already has luck skill to escape those things, psy add more) And i think psy will keep using white vodoo and focus on disable humans rather than dealing damage so assassins can kill the humans without being killed. Wizard can also chose to disable psychic quickly with Force of Will if BM can keep assassin disabled long enough. These team battle actually can sound like lucky or not fight, if both team play pretty good.

Hm why i am the only human here ? b:surrender

Jiblet - Sanctuary

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh i see Kai_Umi.

Hm why i am the only human here ? b:surrender

You're not:P

Longknife - Harshlands

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh i see Kai_Umi.

Well what i mean by escape from soulburn is just get out from there with distance shrink (after receiving soulburn buff, and it safer if wiz using demon shrink) and not attacking (same with BM just run too maybe with leap then regular move speed skill) BM must be always close to Wizard but not so close to escape from enemy team aoe. Especially because Assassins may just go stealh, that where BM may need leap skills. If assassin decided to follow Wizard (that just using distance shrink) with Shadow Jump (or just come close with stealth) BM have to quickly come there to stop assassin from making fun of the Wizard. b:laugh At these part assassin might pick to flee or take risk of keep killing the Wizard. If assassin decide to flee humans can try to use genie skill like alpha male to reveal sin back right after disappear. These need good communication between BM and Wizard especially to read what's going on, especially if the psychic always trying to use Glacial Shards or Earth Vector while they were close with assassins. (well it's team battle after all) Also Wizard will gain more physical defense from BM Aura of the Golden bell. And, hey everyone has genie. b:pleased
Though there another thing to be counted, psy can cast SoSilence to assassin so assassin can escape from disable lock and kill wiz quickly. (lol wut sin already has luck skill to escape those things, psy add more) And i think psy will keep using white vodoo and focus on disable humans rather than dealing damage so assassins can kill the humans without being killed. Wizard can also chose to disable psychic quickly with Force of Will if BM can keep assassin disabled long enough. These team battle actually can sound like lucky or not fight, if both team play pretty good.

Hm why i am the only human here ? b:surrender

I don't mean to sound disrespectful but it really doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about. :U

First thing is you mentioned genies, which I've already stated were a bad idea to include, since I'm trying to focus on which race would win. If every single one of them has Bramble Rage and Expel and Second Wind, then it kinda takes away the point of it being a battle among races; it just becomes a genie battle. Who will win: Genie A or Genie B? No way for us to tell.

Second is, if you wanna run from Soulburn, you run from it. Using Distance Shrink is gonna make Soulburn tick on you, which is gonna friggin' hurt. Other than that, the Psy has more than enough ways to freeze a wizard (wizards have no stun or immobilization immunity, unlike the BM), so if I wanted to Soulburn a wizard, I'd use Earth Vector first. Soulburn's cast is too long, and if I do it on an unstunned wizard, I'm basically inviting him to cast BIDS. So yeah, I'd stun the Wiz first, and then he really wouldn't have much of a chance to run at all, probably. I could still get Glacial shards off before he'd be unstunned.
If you mean that I'd have that window to cast Soulburn BECAUSE the Wiz has already been stunned by the Sin....you've seen how many ailments a sin has? That'd be a total waste; that Wiz is NOT getting out of a lock without some really impressive help from that BM. Soulburn doesn't do **** unless the target is doing something. If the BM were retreating to help the wiz, a FAR better option would be to Soulburn the BM. Then the Sin would be free to keep the Wiz in a lock, and if the BM tried to stop the Sin, he'd be hurting himself. Even if he managed to kill the sin, the whole time Soulburn would be ticking on him AND the Psy would be AOEing. He'd be dead in no time.

Now ok, one tick of Soulburn via Distance Shrink may not be so bad, but when you suggest the BM Tiger leaps and uses his speed skill to escape soulburn, well, you might as well suggest that the BM run full speed at a wall of knives.

Third, BM and Wizard being together AT ALL would be a huge mistake. Like half of a Psy's moves are AOEs, all of them have an ailment and Psys cast pretty damn fast. It's the same thing with Psy and Sin, too. You'd never want those two next to each other or the BM and Wiz would nuke them.


And then here:

Though there another thing to be counted, psy can cast SoSilence to assassin so assassin can escape from disable lock and kill wiz quickly.

I dunno what you're even talking about here. Either way, there's no way in hell I would give my SoS to a target who's not even going to need it most of the fight (he'll be invisible or stun-locking his target) when it may be -THE- move that saves me from the BM.

The other thing is that the sin can go stun immune too. The BM coming to save the Wizard wouldn't be able to simply Roar of Pride and that's that. Personally, I think the physical damage Sin would have a much easier time killing the magic wiz than the physical BM would have killing the physical + high evasion sin.


Also, the thing about Psy vs. Wiz is that the Wizard does win 1v1. It has Force of Will and the sleep skill, both of which actually cast faster than Psy spells. If a sin stuns however, that's literally all we need to disable the Wiz for good. Psy has a 6-second stun AOE, so if the BM were to immediately go after the sin, then the Psy would be free to AOE the BM and Wiz (BM would probably be stun immune thanks to WoB). The Wiz would then be stunned by Earth Vector and the sin would actually be free to help kill the Wiz OR go after the BM. The Psy would have a full 6 second window to attack the wiz, whereas the sin is still capable of silencing the BM. Keep in mind the Psy is AOEing the entire time, so while it's not actually stunning or freezing the BM due to WoB, it is dealing heavy damage. Psy also has an AOE that reduces accuracy, which I would imagine makes quite a difference between the BM and sin. Combined in a fight like that where the Psy can AOE both, the two would easily be able to disable the wiz and BM long enough to kill them.


It'd be a much better option for the BM to forget the Wizard and go after the Psy, imo. Even if the Psy uses Psychic Will, the BM can still stun the Psy, which would stop his damage dealing. If the Wizard was able to put the Psy to sleep before the sin stuns the wiz, then the BM should be able to kill the Psy, or at least severely injure it. If the sin kills the wiz and the BM kills the psy, then I think the humans would actually stand pretty good odds.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

I don't mean to sound disrespectful but it really doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about. :U

First thing is you mentioned genies, which I've already stated were a bad idea to include, since I'm trying to focus on which race would win. If every single one of them has Bramble Rage and Expel and Second Wind, then it kinda takes away the point of it being a battle among races; it just becomes a genie battle. Who will win: Genie A or Genie B? No way for us to tell.

It's because Kai_Umi involving usage of genie on Psychic earlier (holy path).
And of course psy will disable first before cast soulburn, >.< my scenario were begin from psy casting soulburn regardless of the humans get disabled or not. (since that's why i am always saying why they must keep distance in case someone get stun)
Well sorry, but i am to tired to reply again (wall of text !!) or too lazy now. b:surrender
Bye bye . .

volst

I vote for untamed. Barb 1-shots the wiz with armageddon (purged and debuffed wiz is squishy), while veno brambles making the bm useless. Barb can get 5 aps too, so it all boils down to who has the reflect buff. Both untamed can reduce damage taken so they can never be 1 shotted. That phoenix/herc can be annoying too when it stuns you.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Longknife, I always like to read your posts man, you're one of those few who actually puts thought into phrasing them nicely and very easy to understand.

I wonder if you people actually know that Sporific Whisper (wizard's sleep) has a 20 meter cast range and a 2 minute cooldown, and lasts only 4 seconds. Force of Will as the "initial disabling ability" is a far better approach...

volst wrote: »

Barb 1-shots the wiz with armageddon (purged and debuffed wiz is squishy)

Not if Barb gets stunned by BM.

Futurelord - Dreamweaver

b:sad Whats with the elven hate? We elves do just fine against all races when we know what we're doing....someone cash shop a cleric and see what its potential is... now............assassins hurts me buttb:sad but nothing a shield here and there cant fix. pysical and magical shield ftw! down goes the wizard...."hey bm!" "huh?" -Sleep, debuff, spark, tempest- "Hi!"b:chuckle

yashino

Human vs. Untamed. vs. Elves vs. Tideborn vs. Credit Cards


Fixed the title for you b:cute