Are Venomancers really hated?

Xeries - Heavens Tear

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There's no real overt hate any more.

But it is still incredibly rare to see people specifically ASKING for a veno. (And worse, people often ask for a DD and then throw you out because what they MEANT was an archer-or-wizard)

Sins get the real hate now, because they are the current 'unfair' class in PVP.

Doesn't matter if venoes get hated, and I loled at sins getting hate in PVP. I can handle in light armor better than them b:chuckle. Yes, I am an LA melee veno. I don't really die because of my P.DEF multiplying and unlike pure robe venoes, I can take my own hits and survive fine by my own without pet take hits for me.

Assassins are a joke to venoes even if venoes are arcane users, I definitely know this on the PVE side. When venoes get hercs or even rare pet skills to solo their own TTs and FBs while the assassin cannot.

Sure they get overpowered gears, but they can't handle well still. If their secret weapon is stealth only, then assassins are just weak.

tweakz

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your powers aren't determined by your pet, but by your own skill: Your reaction to a sudden squad wipe, knowing when to chi the barb or cleric, knowing when to debuff, knowing what to lure, and also knowing how to keep yourself alive without the dependance of your pet.

You can't do stuff like this as a veno without a pet:

Howl - reduces mdef for a while by 36% at level 5.
Threaten - reduces enemies physical atk by 36% for 15s.
Solo more than one World Boss without pots.

Pets are extremely empowering. The skills you're mentioning are pretty basic and come quick and easy with experience.

In most FF squads, a Herc is what gets you in the door. You could boast of your skills all you want to and probably just get blacklisted. Same thing is going to happen with Nirvana, BH, etc. Nobody goes into an instance with a squad worrying about whether their veno can react to a sudden squad wipe, most appear to ignore the lazy venos that don't debuff, most don't mind telling you what to lure, or worry about if you know how to keep yourself alive. They're more apt to notice and care if you don't use a pet.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

You can't do stuff like this as a veno without a pet:

Howl - reduces mdef for a while by 36% at level 5.
Threaten - reduces enemies physical atk by 36% for 15s.
Solo more than one World Boss without pots.

Pets are extremely empowering. The skills you're mentioning are pretty basic and come quick and easy with experience.

In most FF squads, a Herc is what gets you in the door. You could boast of your skills all you want to and probably just get blacklisted. Same thing is going to happen with Nirvana, BH, etc. Nobody goes into an instance with a squad worrying about whether their veno can react to a sudden squad wipe, most appear to ignore the lazy venos that don't debuff, most don't mind telling you what to lure, or worry about if you know how to keep yourself alive. They're more apt to notice and care if you don't use a pet.

True, pets are empowering. I never said they werent. And yes, i use a pet, lol. -.- I was just saying in common situations, you arent going to find too many venos with lots of added skills on their pets to help in a squad. Most pets are just "there". Herc serves a tanking/DDing purpose, but not a debuffing purpose, so this leaves the debuffing up to you. Other pets serve a DDing purpose or a luring purpose, but those pets wont always have debuffs on them and they wont always be the best lurer. (Sorry but I see alot of fail sauce venos on my server) b:cry

OMarvelous - Sanctuary

Sanc IS full of a lot of lazy venos...kinda irritating. The other day I saw a veno do some kinda flip thing in fox form and I believe her health dropped to about half health. I had to ask her what she was doing because

a)In all my time playing I rarely see venos in fox form much less doing things while in fox form

b) Whatever she was doing seemed like a good thing to me it was just so rare to me I had to ask :P

Also had a really great veno in my squad the other day, I had to pull her aside and thank her. It was a refreshing change.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

OMarvelous - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sanc IS full of a lot of lazy venos...kinda irritating. The other day I saw a veno do some kinda flip thing in fox form and I believe her health dropped to about health. I had to ask her what she was doing because

a)In all my time playing I rarely see venos in fox form much less doing things while in fox form

b) Whatever she was doing seemed like a good thing to me it was just so rare to me I had to ask :P

Also had a really great veno in my squad the other day, I had to pull her aside and thank her. It was a refreshing change.

Hmm, that veno, sounds like my kind of veno. (about the whole foxform ordeal)

Normal veno goes....

*Sees herd of mobs running towards her*

*Panics..... Ahhhhh!.....*

*Jumps up hoping not to get hit*

*Mob smacks too many times*

*Dead veno*

I go....

*Sees a herd of mobs running to me*

*Jumps in foxform, and runs to mob(s)*

*Smacks em dead*

but, really... 90% of venos on Sanc are lazy. Im just glad im not one of them b:surrender
Seems my favorite thing to do on my veno is tank... maybe i shouldve been a barb
(i body tank too) b:surrender

XylolyX - Heavens Tear

There's a great deal of Veno hate out there around Tusk Town...Since there's fewer mobs and smaller spawning areas venos get blamed for KSing quite a bit.

So yes, prior to lvl60 there's some veno hate...and afterwards I guess there's some. I won't know until I level my veno.

kenlee

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your powers aren't determined by your pet, but by your own skill: Your reaction to a sudden squad wipe, knowing when to chi the barb or cleric, knowing when to debuff, knowing what to lure, and also knowing how to keep yourself alive without the dependance of your pet.

when you get to 100 and squad with a bunch of endgame other classes like bm/archers/wiz you wont have to worry about any of that. in worst case you will feel like a leech since they will aoe the hell out of any instance w/o worrying about any kind of help from venos. most of the good barbs around will tell you that only noob barbs ask for chi, good clerics rarely need chi.. the only classes that need are DD's. lure is not that much needed, pet will deal less damage than you and so on...

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

kenlee wrote: »

when you get to 100 and squad with a bunch of endgame other classes like bm/archers/wiz you wont have to worry about any of that. in worst case you will feel like a leech since they will aoe the hell out of any instance w/o worrying about any kind of help from venos. most of the good barbs around will tell you that only noob barbs ask for chi, good clerics rarely need chi.. the only classes that need are DD's. lure is not that much needed, pet will deal less damage than you and so on...

I have already been in squads like this before. Not random squads, but with ppl i know.
Take Fcc for example: I have a herc, and I offer to tank all bosses but fragrance to help the barb, but instead the sin ends up tanking all the bosses, cause he out DDs my herc with his 4.00 atk/s. Did I feel useless in squad at first? Yes. Do I now when I squad with him for fcc? No, because its one of the best squads I go with. It goes by so fast, and its a break for me (from when i have to tank 99% of the time) I just make sure amplfiy damage and myraid rainbow is constantly on the bosses.

When I said your powers arent determined by your pet, i wasnt talking about beggining game, middle game, or end game. I was talking about in general, you shouldnt be a veno who hides behind his/her pet all day.
You should try to be an asset to squad, even if they say they don't need you. You might still be appreciated.

kenlee

well they dont bring you for nothing. at least you can still amplify at bosses and stuff. yea sins/bms are scary, so many times ive seen bosses dying in like 15 sec. FC is already an easy place, try aoeing fb99 xD... well not you but those scary bms. btw i outdd my pet in nirvana and all bosses are [?]. better weapon and refines finally shows up

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

kenlee wrote: »

well they dont bring you for nothing. at least you can still amplify at bosses and stuff. yea sins/bms are scary, so many times ive seen bosses dying in like 15 sec. FC is already an easy place, try aoeing fb99 xD... well not you but those scary bms. btw i outdd my pet in nirvana and all bosses are [?]. better weapon and refines finally shows up

Lol ya i havent been that far.....

still need to go in Seat of torment for chrono. b:shocked

Aeremay - Harshlands

ehh, most venos, they stand in BH's with their hercs, doing nothing, while i'm the one doing all the amping, and DDing. to think about it, i have no herc, and no nix. i'm an ultra poor veno. that is quite lazy who does nto have time to grind for money. sooo, i'm not sure if i'm a fail~? -gigglesnort- oh well, i'm only good for PvP, thanks to being HA

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

^ you dont sound fail to me. I'd rather have a veno without a herc or nix doing their best in squad, than a veno with a herc/nix dragging everyone behind. And i wouldnt say HA is a pvp only build. I'm HA and I've hardly even pvped.

Aniella - Harshlands

Im veno..only things i do..is do quest/bh/grinding/pvp..uh nothing else-.-' its hard to get fc squad and tt squad..cuz i don't have herc..its a bit stupid that this game make legedary pet..(cuz they are not)..all got em..by speed their food mony on game..LOL

Don't want waste my real monyzh on kid stuff..I don't make monyzh..
well i got 50m free..by play normal and a bit luck.used them on gear and pet scrolls for my pets!.
.i realy like have diff pets that others. .i like dd in fc (nobody whants meh to dd and lure + give chi) xD
But since im vit veno i got bad dg. so i can only lvl on cs! + nobody do bh79...
i understad why ppl hate venos..cuz venos are noob class..and many venos..Think pet do everything..so they realy don't learn how to play w their skills.
venos got elemet atks..most of them are skils to stun/take down def and wood dg over time.

I have seen venos in pking..that stay in foxfrom and let their pet kil ppl..xD.most nix ppl do this..well its oNLy em! they don't even Know what skills are..:o..they sux more then lvl 1..cuz they think pet do everything..but tahs wrong..


In pvp i use my pet as a skills..i use his bleed..its a skils..and only pet can use it..after bleed i useironwood..cuz it take down pdef- bleed is pdef over time..so they i make that "pet skills"be better..and do more dg on ppl + mobs


Other classes learn to play their char at lvl 1..venos at lvl 20+..well some never learn how to play..xD Maybe cuz thay never read about the skils..and what effect they do + when to use it!


When i pk i meet a nix veno..lvl 97..he said i sux and he say he can kill meh in 1 hit!..<--(He thinks he was best cuz he got powerful pet..but never care baout his skils)

He tried pk meh 3 times..but failed..cuz i stuned him and took away bleed..so his nix did't do much dg. owned him 5 times..and then he said it was waste of mony use mony on bee!

bee w bleed + claw = 10m
Nix = 75m! uh is that waste of coins uh no

Sawfly is free and i used game monyzh on it..xD lol its not waste of monyzh like spend 200dollar on game..LOL

So ofc many venos are so stupid in that way, they think they are best cuz got legenary pets <- all got em..wrong to be caled legendary! buts tahs wrong..pet do only 60% of the work..

Venos that use weaker pet..learn mroe about their skils..then owerpowered cash shop ppl. and thay are not hated..cuz they don't talk bullsihit about.."IM THE BEST"

kenlee

there is one reason they go in fox form in pk you noob, they get much better pdef to resist a fight. i only saw you once and didnt even had to move a finger just pet killed you in 1 sec

and again, you keep asking in wc for a claw pet skill but thats not 10mil at all

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

kenlee wrote: »

there is one reason they go in fox form in pk you noob, they get much better pdef to resist a fight. i only saw you once and didnt even had to move a finger just pet killed you in 1 sec

and again, you keep asking in wc for a claw pet skill but thats not 10mil at all

The person above you makes no sense at all. b:sweat

And frankly doesnt even sound like they know how to play their class.

Would probably be one of the venos i have hate for if i was on that server

/facepalm

RawDawg - Heavens Tear

Most venos are hated because they suck in squads, not because they are venos.

A general trend is that a veno will buy a herc and hide behind it, and call it a day. No reason to learn any other skills or get good gear, and why should they learn anything about how squads operate?

A veno is like any other class: good ones are appreciated and bad ones shunned.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

RawDawg - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Most venos are hated because they suck in squads, not because they are venos.

A general trend is that a veno will buy a herc and hide behind it, and call it a day. No reason to learn any other skills or get good gear, and why should they learn anything about how squads operate?

A veno is like any other class: good ones are appreciated and bad ones shunned.

^This. +1

Glad I dont hide behind my herc all day.

I come before my herc b:thanks

truekossy

I tend to sit in the middle of hands in TT, put herc on stay, and then exit the circle.


Then I laugh while watching herc fail to tank the explosion.

queenfate

I am one veno that will never own a herc. It is amusing that a lot(I am not going to say most) venos that have hercs do hide behind them and don't learn skills, yet if you don't have one it can be hard to find a squad. This is kind of like another game I play where a person could have a pet 50 to 100 lvls higher than them. No need to learn my class I have this Evo 3(insert pet type here).
I love my Kowlin, she debuffs, I use my skills and heal her and I am happy. Can I solo TT's and whatnot? No I can't but I am fine with that. I know some players of these games are not going to get this concept but I do not compete with other people. I couldn't care less what so and so has as far as gear/pet. I make enough to keep me going and that is what matters to me.

Aniella - Harshlands

kenlee wrote: »

there is one reason they go in fox form in pk you noob, they get much better pdef to resist a fight. i only saw you once and didnt even had to move a finger just pet killed you in 1 sec

and again, you keep asking in wc for a claw pet skill but thats not 10mil at all

Foxform is good but u must use it rigth..like if u are in foxfrom u can't use important skils like stun and irownood! And its also steal much of ur mp..and a Bm/barb stun u..
Y can't make to get out of foxfrom before ur dead! If u was in human u had a change to put barble hood on u and able to use lucky scrab.

Oh i never saw some1 kill meh in sec? lol the u must dream^^ well i got my smaxy claw:P long time ago.

Atm u can never understad..or learn what others think..u maybe must try learn how to think about others^^

For meh..u erect like a 12 years old kid..that only think he is better then other! and forget think about others....well i care about others..but not abput u..cuz u don't even saw the poit..

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

I am one veno that will never own a herc. It is amusing that a lot(I am not going to say most) venos that have hercs do hide behind them and don't learn skills, yet if you don't have one it can be hard to find a squad. This is kind of like another game I play where a person could have a pet 50 to 100 lvls higher than them. No need to learn my class I have this Evo 3(insert pet type here).
I love my Kowlin, she debuffs, I use my skills and heal her and I am happy. Can I solo TT's and whatnot? No I can't but I am fine with that. I know some players of these games are not going to get this concept but I do not compete with other people. I couldn't care less what so and so has as far as gear/pet. I make enough to keep me going and that is what matters to me.

Never say "never" you might get one someday. but i do agree, alot of venos rely on the pet.

kenlee

Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »

blah blah blah

you dont even know what are you talking about hence you suck at pvp and also no big guild want you

Aniella - Harshlands

kenlee wrote: »

you dont even know what are you talking about hence you suck at pvp and also no big guild want you

u never seen meh pk ..so better shut up^^

lol i know 100% my skills and what they are for i can play my char! most ppl don't know what that means.:p big guilds only look at the ouside..never the skils and the way to play..its a big mistake they take there. and i don't whant to join kylin and Zulu..they sux..they are 2 vs 1..how can they learn play? i will be in guild there its ppl that can play.

queenfate

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

Never say "never" you might get one someday. but i do agree, alot of venos rely on the pet.

No offense but I can say never, I don't like them. They are ugly and I don't want one lol. I buy pet packs from cs to sell, not to save to get a herc.

kenlee

Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »

u never seen meh pk ..so better shut up^^

lol i know 100% my skills and what they are for i can play my char! most ppl don't know what that means.:p big guilds only look at the ouside..never the skils and the way to play..its a big mistake they take there. and i don't whant to join kylin and Zulu..they sux..they are 2 vs 1..how can they learn play? i will be in guild there its ppl that can play.

how i never saw you since you dont have any idea who i am
if you are better than any ky/zulu why dont you make your own faction and try to take land from them?
how can your sis play much better veno than you and also have legendary pets?

Aniella - Harshlands

kenlee wrote: »

how i never saw you since you dont have any idea who i am
if you are better than any ky/zulu why dont you make your own faction and try to take land from them?
how can your sis play much better veno than you and also have legendary pets?

why u QQ so much!..why not leav this forum..u are not better then others..anyway im not say im better then zulu/ky..but im not 2 vs 1..i always 1 vs 1!

well u will never know meh:p cuz im not same person as before...u better shut up!

:P i can find out how u are..i think i alredy KNOW^^

kenlee

if you are looking for 1 vs 1 then try duels maybe... there is no fair rule in pk. what if you find out? you are still 1-2 shots to me... enjoy raging

LeirtA - Lost City

Whoever says they use a regular pet and can still use their nuking and debuffing skills when soloing or tanking bosses in a squad are pretty much lying or has more than -30% channelling.

I have tried the magmite, kowlin, armored bear before getting the herc. The herc basically has a higher survival rate and requires less healing than any other regular pets. I can still amp, nuke and do any other things I want to do with the big fat yellow blob. At some bosses I pretty much have to spam heal and the herc barely stays alive. When I use a kowlin or the armored bear I end up just spam healing without being able to do anything else and it takes a longer time to get the mob finished. Time which I don't have to play the game longer than usual due to having studies to cope with.

In any and every MMORPG we play, there is never and no fairness in pvping. Players will always try and use any advantage they have available just to win. That includes getting their friends or guildies to help. You want fairness in a MMORPG? Too bad you won't find it here.

It doesn't necessarily mean a herc user is competing with someone else for the honors of being the best character. Sometimes its about pushing your veno and yourself to the limits of the game boundaries for the fun, accomplishment and satisfaction.

I'm not bashing the non herc users but just trying to present my point of view of why I use the herc.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

queenfate wrote: »

No offense but I can say never, I don't like them. They are ugly and I don't want one lol. I buy pet packs from cs to sell, not to save to get a herc.

Yes, they are pretty ugly. But, don't judge the pet by it's looks. While it isnt nessecary to have, it can still help you in the long. Help you farm gears, so you dont have to worry about finding a squad.
I got my herc at lvl 75, by llvl 79, it was tanking 3-1, and 2-2 squad mode (with other ppl)
when i got my heal pet at lvl 83. I went in and soloed squad mode of 3-1 and 2-2 to get mats i needed for my TT90 gear.

90% of my TT90 mats were gotten this way.

queenfate

LeirtA - Lost City wrote: »

Whoever says they use a regular pet and can still use their nuking and debuffing skills when soloing or tanking bosses in a squad are pretty much lying or has more than -30% channelling.

I have tried the magmite, kowlin, armored bear before getting the herc. The herc basically has a higher survival rate and requires less healing than any other regular pets. I can still amp, nuke and do any other things I want to do with the big fat yellow blob. At some bosses I pretty much have to spam heal and the herc barely stays alive. When I use a kowlin or the armored bear I end up just spam healing without being able to do anything else and it takes a longer time to get the mob finished. Time which I don't have to play the game longer than usual due to having studies to cope with.

In any and every MMORPG we play, there is never and no fairness in pvping. Players will always try and use any advantage they have available just to win. That includes getting their friends or guildies to help. You want fairness in a MMORPG? Too bad you won't find it here.

It doesn't necessarily mean a herc user is competing with someone else for the honors of being the best character. Sometimes its about pushing your veno and yourself to the limits of the game boundaries for the fun, accomplishment and satisfaction.

I'm not bashing the non herc users but just trying to present my point of view of why I use the herc.

If your comment about competing was directed at my comment then allow me to clarify please. That was not in any way meant as a blanket statement. I was referring to those that do try to keep up with the joneses so to speak. If that is not you then great. I was merely stating that I play for fun and that in itself is subjective depending upon who you are talking to. For some it IS fun to try and get the uber gear or uber pet at any cost.
I have no desire to play tank with my pet, if I wanted to solo I would farm, which coincidentally is what i prefer to do lol. I am not trying to say my way of playing is the way everyone else should. But on the flipside of that I don't like being considered a failed veno just because I CHOSE not to have a herc.