What's archers' role?

Admante - Dreamweaver

What do we do that assassins can't do better?

Ranged DD? Sins can spark much more often with a bow than us and more than make up for the lack of bow mastery.

AoE DD? Mobs die so fast in FC that barely two iterations of barrage hit each pull.

1v1 PvP? Erm, I'm not going into the obvious.

Bosses? Bloodpaint + fast hits with dagger > fists that use a stat which archers don't specialize in.

There's barrage and heaven shatterer, though two things are hardly a reason to play a class.

I can honestly see no reason not to reroll either BM or sin.

Hypnos - Raging Tide

how about STA ;o

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

Alot people like their sin's. yes they'r fun. but they'r not really as cool as u think. many archers QQ cos they get baten so easy 1v1 of them, yes sin has no prob kill archer, but for usefullness i have to say sin is overrated.. fist bm, archer and wiz, thats all ya need for dd, it covr it.
except the 1v1 pvp i dont rate sin over archer for anything. sure they have some cool looking stuff, but nothig new rly except stealth and atatck rate debuff. amps, which other classes cover rly.
sin jsut cheap version to go for perma spark cos of chi skills lol.

Meanpie - Lost City

Admante - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What do we do that assassins can't do better?

How about spin in a circle with a bow? Ok so who cares?

Ranged DD? Sins can spark much more often with a bow than us and more than make up for the lack of bow mastery.

We can shoot from farther away and faster. I've not seen many sins with -interval on their bow. And you are assuming that they are Demon Sparking. I've seen quite a few Sage Sins.

AoE DD? Mobs die so fast in FC that barely two iterations of barrage hit each pull.

Yeah, so when you run a FC with a 95+ squad the mobs die really fast? But not when you run with an 85 squad. Plus there are a whole lot of other uses for AoE DD outside of FC. TW for example?

1v1 PvP? Erm, I'm not going into the obvious.

Really now...they aren't that much terribly better at 1vs1 PvP. And what about group PvP or TW?

Bosses? Bloodpaint + fast hits with dagger > fists that use a stat which archers don't specialize in.

STA FTW!

There's barrage and heaven shatterer, though two things are hardly a reason to play a class.

How about the best ranged DD in the game?

I can honestly see no reason not to reroll either BM or sin.

I might just be a little to obsessed with being an archer but don't you think you are giving them more credit than they deserve? It's not like they do everything we do better than we do it plus a whole lot more.

Zhadi - Archosaur

All classes have their strengths and weaknesses.

Archers have an insane range that sins can't ever reach with a bow.
Sometimes this range is what barely keeps them out of a boss's AoE.

Archers have STA = wiping out 20% of a boss's HP in a single shot

Archers have both magical and physical attacks meaning we can do our full normal damage to both robed and heavies. Sins will rely on a extremely high attack speed and demon spark to take out heavies, if theyre lucky.

In PvP Archers are the snipers. I don't know what kind of sin prefers using a bow for PK or TW when they have great stealth and dagger skills to use, but point is, they're not snipers like archers are.

Here are extra miscellaneous reasons:

Gameplay may be funner to you if you prefer to kite rather than being kited.

If you like to change your skin color and both your face and the rest of your body matches.

If you don't like fish.

Archers are sexy.

Don't complain about how "nerfed" we are.
If you want to reroll, reroll.
I prefer archer over sin hands down even though I do get owned by them 1v1 PvP.

Magicgabe - Lost City

Archers seem to have a good efficiency at killing in a group. They can quickly hit off the last HP of some target and they can do this to many targets without moving. BMs and barbs have to move. Wiz have to channel a lot. Alot of their spike damage seems to come from crits which is mana and time efficient. Then's there's that STA skill that's purty nice. Then there's the group speed buff. Slow people love it when running around dungeons. I don't know a lot about archers but I still appreciate them a lot still.

ugysekell

Archer's role? "The cheap DD" xD

- Archers can grind with minimal amount of HP/MP pots.
- Archers have extreme range and low repait cost.
- Archers can kill most mobs before they could attack.
- Archers can PVE with cheap gear because most mobs can't even reach them. A melee class has to spend lots of money on good armor, especially Sins, because LA isn't the best thing to melee with. =P
- With Winged shell, and Second wind, Archers have decent survavibility.
- Archers don't have to buy lots of skills to kill effectively. Get passives, blazing, shell, frozen, knockback and you're done. Normal attacks and crits are your friends. Make good genies with your spirit and sell them for millions. AoEs and others are optional, depends on your playstyle. I personally only maxed out the skills I mentioned.
- Archers look sexier than Sins... and other classes. Bow = sexiest weapon, hands down.

Admante - Dreamweaver

Sins can spark at least 2x more often than us with a bow. Regardless of sage or demon, that is a lot of damage.

Can you really say archers are better snipers when sins can stealth, triple spark, power dash, wolf emblem, and pop up with a stun?

Sins can easily go from massive dps interval mode into big hits spike damage mode with chill of the deep. Oh look, another weakness we have that they filled.

And yes, I already mentioned barrage as a very big pro for archer. Still, it's only one skill costing two sparks that we can't get constantly.

One more thing: the developers actually thought out evasion for sins and gave them the ability to evade skills or spells as well.

I'm not complaining about archers being nerfed; this is just another rant about tideborns.

ugysekell wrote: »

Archer's role? "The cheap DD" xD

- Archers can grind with minimal amount of HP/MP pots.
- Archers have extreme range and low repait cost.
- Archers can kill most mobs before they could attack.
- Archers can PVE with cheap gear because most mobs can't even reach them. A melee class has to spend lots of money on good armor, especially Sins, because LA isn't the best thing to melee with. =P
- With Winged shell, and Second wind, Archers have decent survavibility.
- Archers don't have to buy lots of skills to kill effectively. Get passives, blazing, shell, frozen, knockback and you're done. Normal attacks and crits are your friends. Make good genies with your spirit and sell them for millions. AoEs and others are optional, depends on your playstyle. I personally only maxed out the skills I mentioned.
- Archers look sexier than Sins... and other classes. Bow = sexiest weapon, hands down.

The cheap part further reinforces the fact that archer potential is far below assassin potential.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

Admante - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sins can spark at least 2x more often than us with a bow. Regardless of sage or demon, that is a lot of damage.

Can you really say archers are better snipers when sins can stealth, triple spark, power dash, wolf emblem, and pop up with a stun?

Sins can easily go from massive dps interval mode into big hits spike damage mode with chill of the deep. Oh look, another weakness we have that they filled.

And yes, I already mentioned barrage as a very big pro for archer. Still, it's only one skill costing two sparks that we can't get constantly.

One more thing: the developers actually thought out evasion for sins and gave them the ability to evade skills or spells as well.

I'm not complaining about archers being nerfed; this is just another rant about tideborns.



The cheap part further reinforces the fact that archer potential is far below assassin potential.

Reroll sin. you'll get dissapointed so high as you rate assasin.

Archalt - Sanctuary

I have a few sin friends in faction who always QQ because they have to spend a lot on gear and upgrades, otherwise they are squishy as hell. I often do instances with some of them, and they can die pretty fast if they are not cautious. With a crappy gear, I can survive longer than them with a good one. b:surrender Range = win.

TigerLily - Lost City

I dont think any class has a specific role anymore in this game.

Everyone is pretty much a DD, and everyone is pretty much a tank. Dont even need clerics anymore with BP and event pots.

Any interval build mele class (barb, BM, sin) will out dmg a traditional bow archer, doesnt matter if you're +12 refined. If you wanna compete in terms of pve have to do the same build/gear wise.

Only role archer still have is for group pvp. There is no other class with massive phy ranged dmg/aoe, which is why archers still are highly needed for TW.

Some bosses needs ranged tanks to, which archer is best class for.

Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver

archer can combo to hit at 150- 200k at 1.33 speed. in pve

in tw.. archer can tab.. hit attack kill in 1-2 shots .. tab again kill again and so on

where as assassin has to run to the target. in the time it take a sin to kill 2 targets an archer can kill 5-6. if you factor in BOA at 10-20 people on aoe sin cant even come close to the killing spree.

1v1 sin are great. but still can be countered by simple things like expel and apoc.

Sin can be better pve dps with out as much in the way of gear.

Bobobobobo - Lost City

Archers are for the style looking, and epicness of metal skill posing (female only).
+ they are fun to play.
Is that not enough for you?

Neveiah - Sanctuary

Archer in my opinion are the sniper. And help Stun and Shatter defenses so tanker can go in for kill. AOE archer skills aren't as good as some of the other classes. but its ranged. so huge advantage. when you don't have to be right next to the targets getting hits

Cavalieri - Sanctuary

PVE: Sharp Tooth Arrow

PVP: Sins are probably better then anything else when it comes to 1v1 PvP. In mass PvP however archers and sins have a completely different role.

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Well I dont see how a ranged DD is not that great when it comes to PVE. Even if assassins can spark more or deal more damage, they would also need to hold back more or else they would end up tanking the darn thing. So in the end, its sort of the same damage output.

And I fail to see how an assassin can spark more using a bow. When using a bow, they cant spark any faster than an archer (unless theyre gonna use chi pots / genie skills) since the attack rate would be the same (provided both use the same gear). They dont have anything that increases their atk rate when using bows now do they?

Other reasons I can think of why I like being an archer and why they are still useful:-
1.) Archers have 4 AoEs to work with and if used properly this can clear mobs much better than having an assassin kill 1 by 1.
2.) STA -> already been said many times
3.) Elven Alacrity for other slower classes to escape? Pretty sure a sin cant make a cleric run faster even if they wanted to :P
4.) Being ranged, we can often stay in the back lines and observe the surroundings better which would help us alert other squad members of incoming walkers or players depending upon situations.
5.) Pretty sure we perform better with bows than similar levelled assassins using a bow considering we do have masteries, skills, etc for it.

On the downside, we dont compare to an assassin's ability in 1on1 PVPs which I dont give a damn about since I dont duel or go pk here in PWI. At best, I would like to TW for which we would still be useful for sniping.

Pretty sure, you being 99 and all, are well aware what an archer is capable of and not. You really dont need us telling But if you still feel assassins are better, prefer their gameplay style better, make one yourself.

In the end, my role is to have fun and I enjoy the most on my archer than an assassin. Thats all I need.

Brigid - Harshlands

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And I fail to see how an assassin can spark more using a bow. When using a bow, they cant spark any faster than an archer (unless theyre gonna use chi pots / genie skills) since the attack rate would be the same (provided both use the same gear). They dont have anything that increases their atk rate when using bows now do they?

Switch to dagger -> Wolf Emblem -> Inner Harmony -> Back to bow. That's an extra 150-200 chi every 60 seconds, plus higher critical damage.

WnbTank - Archosaur

Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »

how about STA ;o

Venomancer skill called Sage Soul degeneration, I think, reduces 20% of max hp. It`s also 92 lvl skill so way more easier to obtain than sage/demon STA. Now, go pick something else . Sure sins can`t do that, but as venos are so popular class and sage being more favored path, at least on my server, there is quite a good chance that veno got that skill .

RainZ - Raging Tide

From my experience i think archer excel most in TW situation where there are a lot of people... With the range archers have its harder to target and kill an archer compared to melee classes whu hav to charge to the front line... Also the lack of defense archers have are being compensated by the range and being secondary targets in TW.... What i mean is that tab button gives the enemy that is closest to you and in Tw the catas and clerics are main targets except maybe when you open up barrage...

Being an archer in tw is pretty fun ^^

Islamey - Dreamweaver

From my experience i think archer excel most in TW situation where there are a lot of people... With the range archers have its harder to target and kill an archer compared to melee classes whu hav to charge to the front line... Also the lack of defense archers have are being compensated by the range and being secondary targets in TW.... What i mean is that tab button gives the enemy that is closest to you and in Tw the catas and clerics are main targets except maybe when you open up barrage...

+1
Do you have ANY idea how miserable assassins are in TW?
You get smacked around by every AoE you could name when you're invisible, and you're a high priority target once you reveal yourself.
The downfall of the assassin is that they are melee, and ranged DD dominate TW.

Venomancer skill called Sage Soul degeneration, I think, reduces 20% of max hp. It`s also 92 lvl skill so way more easier to obtain than sage/demon STA. Now, go pick something else .

The key difference is that STA is AoE.

And help Stun and Shatter defenses so tanker can go in for kill. AOE archer skills aren't as good as some of the other classes. but its ranged.

The reason to play archer is because you can BoA with heaven shatter and area purge.

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

can a low lvl sin kill a high lvl sin? no they can not, with detect invis skill the way it is.. just 1 lvl lower.. u can not see ur enmey

so sin is locked in a arm race, wops i mean lvl race

can a low lvl archer kill a high lvl arhcer? of course u can, is there preasure for archer to lvl pass 101? nope, not really at all

kdanger8

Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver wrote: »

archer can combo to hit at 150- 200k at 1.33 speed. in pve

in tw.. archer can tab.. hit attack kill in 1-2 shots .. tab again kill again and so on

where as assassin has to run to the target. in the time it take a sin to kill 2 targets an archer can kill 5-6. if you factor in BOA at 10-20 people on aoe sin cant even come close to the killing spree.

1v1 sin are great. but still can be countered by simple things like expel and apoc.

Sin can be better pve dps with out as much in the way of gear.

also archers have a better survivability in tws and such then sins. granted yes sins can go invis but once they are knocked out what are they going to do? they die very easily. while archers on the other hand we can wing shell or wings of grace or elven and apo to get away un harmed while sins are just stuck getting pounded on. i find sins excel in 1v1 but in tw archer will always be more valuable in the mass killing department. im not saying sins are not useful in tw which they are but again its only on a 1v1 scale where they jump a cleric or something while others are not paying attention. but for me id take an archer over a sin to tw any day of the week

Admante - Dreamweaver

They have skills to completely avoid hits and deaden nerves. That's hardly helpless.

If you call sins squishy, archers aren't any better in that department.

Zhadi - Archosaur

Admante - Dreamweaver wrote: »

They have skills to completely avoid hits and deaden nerves. That's hardly helpless.

If you call sins squishy, archers aren't any better in that department.

range
10char

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

range
10char

shadow teleport

Zhadi - Archosaur

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

shadow teleport

what's that have to do with survivability?

Brigid - Harshlands

L10 Shadow Teleport has a 35m range. That's longer than archers' range.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

what's that have to do with survivability?

archers have the lowest survivability in pwi unless they can constantly sage spark and that only aplys to pve

for pvp sins have god mode
bms hanve hp stuns and marrows
barbs have gobs of hp
for wizzies...stone barrier +disgusting control skills
psys have white vodoo and will
venos have hood FF feral multiple imunity and instant heals +control skills
clerics have 3 shells heals and control



archers have 1 shell that instapoofs 1 that takes forever and a 1/2 to cool off and only blocks 30% the worst armor in game and a pair of control skills that can miss and either dont work 100% or eat a spark

you do have rangein pve and can kill rather fast in tw but archer survival vs well refined people is a joke (unless your really really really good at kiteing)

PinkArrow - Heavens Tear

I played both and I like archer more

Joshcja - Sanctuary

PinkArrow - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I played both and I like archer more

pleasestop +1ing your post count and ride into a sunset..or the sun either way

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear

Admante - Dreamweaver wrote: »

1.Sins can spark at least 2x more often than us with a bow. Regardless of sage or demon, that is a lot of damage.

2.snipers

1.Our atk rate is the same when using a bow,no?

2.Check up the definition of a sniper.I don't think dagger-wielding assasins count as sinpers.=.=