Can BMs replace Barbs as Tanks

_Neve_ - Heavens Tear

its easier for a barb too hold agro than it is for a bm, they just have the skills for it.
even though fist bms do pretty good cause of their attack speed. axe bms have alot more trouble holding agro than fist bms do. exspecially later with the -int gear and alpha male almoust any bm can do a pretty good job.
i always prefer barbs tanking - i just feel safer^^ even though i must say i really enjoy tanking myself when im on my little 75 axe bm - and when the rest of the squad just slows down with the attacking a bit she usually does a pretty good job

Daose - Harshlands

Well, I divide tanking in two two areas, single's and hordes.

If there are multiple mobs, I've found that a BM is much better with crowd control due to the amount of AoE's they possess, so you don't have to worry about the cleric getting hunted down.

For tanking 1 mob/bosses, I think Barbs are better simply due to aggro skills and higher HP. Although as some have said -int fist keeps aggro pretty well.

Jennalicious - Sanctuary

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Leeeroooyy Jennkinnnnsss

At least he has chicken.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

must spend a lot of time in the FB that has all the KFC chickens in it! ^_^

Jennalicious - Sanctuary wrote: »

At least he has chicken.

Quilue - Sanctuary

this is the kind of thread that pisses people off.

can bms replace barbs as tanks?
can sins replace archer as DDs? even ranged DDs?
can psychics replace wizards?
which is better DD? bm or sin? wizard or psy?
can venos replace a whole squad? or is that BMs now?

LmmortaIity - Heavens Tear

Rcilis on Heavens Tear can...13k unbuffed hpb:shocked

hopaqo

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

this is the kind of thread that pisses people off.

can bms replace barbs as tanks?
can sins replace archer as DDs? even ranged DDs?
can psychics replace wizards?
which is better DD? bm or sin? wizard or psy?
can venos replace a whole squad? or is that BMs now?

Don't see why it should. It is important question something not just me many interested in. Tanking is generally left to Barbs simply because of their inherent build. However you hear comments that BMs can do pretty good job too. So simple question anyone knowledgeable please give us your insights, is it feasible, pros/cons, etc etc.

So again why?? Anyone can simply ask any question they want and if someone does not like a question then simply free not to answer it. There are many who are genuinly ineterested in answers and insights.


All the questions you listed are legitimate questions and everyone simply free to ask if they want to, and we're simply free if we want to answer or not.

XxIfritxX - Lost City

lol ...depend on boss I say...
lets say same Lv BM and barb for a drum boss in HH ...BM imight get 1 shotted from drum first hit LoL....

ArchSeraph - Dreamweaver

Early on, BMs will not compare to Barbs, as early play is based mostly on the composition of your stats, while equipment isn't as important. Early BMs lack the HP, defense, and aggro-control skills that Barbs have, which make them ineffective tanks.

Later on, the game shifts to a focus on gear over level, and it is indeed hard to compete with just about anything that has the damage output of an effective interval character. I find that competent barbs are more effective than BMs because they use their experience as a tank throughout the game to the table, while BMs just double-click -> spark -> double-click and hope it maintains aggro. Should they lose it, it takes time to reacquire, and most BMs simply run around trying to reacquire it as they don't have the skills necessary to grab it instantly (such as Roar, unless they are tank-minded and use Alpha Male).

BMs can be effective tanks at higher levels (85+, in my opinion), however that doesn't mean that competent barbs have lost their place. It just means that squads aren't reliant on barbs in their composition at that point.

sixftbadger

Surely any 'tank' is only ever as good as the elf throwing heals at it?

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

this is the kind of thread that pisses people off.

can bms replace barbs as tanks?
can sins replace archer as DDs? even ranged DDs?
can psychics replace wizards?
which is better DD? bm or sin? wizard or psy?
can venos replace a whole squad? or is that BMs now?

I agree with you... BM maybe good at aggro with only by -intervals gears, barbs are naturals at tanks. There is pros and cons about every class. Barb will never be replaced by a BM or herc or anything. What would barbs be for anyways if they can't tank? DD with Armageddon? NTY I don't like using such a skill designed for Leroy Jenkins. Besides, barbs are better at keeping aggro in AOE IMHO, only a dumb barb would try and aggro one at a time, barbs can spark faster than BMs, no matter how hard BMs try. Beastial rage is the answer, that will make them perma spark really fast. BMs always need heals, barbs don't sometimes, depends on the situation.

+1 to this... + I am not mad at the OP or threads like this at all.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

sixftbadger wrote: »

Surely any 'tank' is only ever as good as the elf throwing heals at it?

Nope, Look at Cheezdude, high interval tanks dont need heals for most bosses. hell wiz heal will be enough for a large portion of bosses

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree with you... BM maybe good at aggro with only by -intervals gears, barbs are naturals at tanks. There is pros and cons about every class. Barb will never be replaced by a BM or herc or anything. What would barbs be for anyways if they can't tank? DD with Armageddon? NTY I don't like using such a skill designed for Leroy Jenkins. Besides, barbs are better at keeping aggro in AOE IMHO, only a dumb barb would try and aggro one at a time, barbs can spark faster than BMs, no matter how hard BMs try. Beastial rage is the answer, that will make them perma spark really fast. BMs always need heals, barbs don't sometimes, depends on the situation.

+1 to this... + I am not mad at the OP or threads like this at all.

No fast nirvana squad has a barb tank, unless its a fist barb. they're replaced. look at 3-3s now, its mostly fist bms tanking(or tanking the runs that are literally 3 times as fast) WB..Lol Also fist BM or ranged archer most are tanked that way most effectively.
Barb can spark faster then BM? So the ability to generate 375chi in 15 seconds is something a barb can do continuously? mkayyyy
Bms need less heals then barbs sorry buddy, triple spark regains hp, and some use healing fists, the sage ones take 25% less damage too so...ya.. b:bye

Joshcja - Sanctuary

XxIfritxX - Lost City wrote: »

lol ...depend on boss I say...
lets say same Lv BM and barb for a drum boss in HH ...BM imight get 1 shotted from drum first hit LoL....

i spank 1-3 drum

all night long d^.^b

Vaktoth - Sanctuary

XxIfritxX - Lost City wrote: »

lol ...depend on boss I say...
lets say same Lv BM and barb for a drum boss in HH ...BM imight get 1 shotted from drum first hit LoL....

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

i spank 1-3 drum

all night long d^.^b

At your current level of course, how about when you were 60?

Telarith - Sanctuary

Vaktoth - Sanctuary wrote: »

At your current level of course, how about when you were 60?

60 = 1-1. Unless you're trying to say 60 barb is able to tank a higher TT instance someone else must open. Course at that point, why would they be taking the 60 barb instead of another tank who is of level?

Mik_scorpius - Heavens Tear

BM's can, very correctly, tank a lot. And, as said, barbs are specialized tankers, so they're better at tanking single targets due to their ability to sustain huge damage and keeping aggro.

BM's excell in other areas, such as AoE control, stun, DD'ing, and reservetanking. If anything goes wrong, a BM can usually save the day. In the cases where there are lots of mobs, BM's often have the tank role since we (axe version) get aggro on most mobs with heavy AoE.

Barbs can tank most single bosses np - Their strength lies in the ability to take and hold aggro more efficiently than any other class. They can also take heavy punishment from high crit hits before going down.

As for the discussion of other classes - certainly, you can always argue for some class to be better than some other class, but usually you can do with another class. If you need a DD there are many options - if you need a tank there likewise are options. Cleric is the only one
that is actually always needed (unless the tanker is a veno of course).

Please stop these endless discussion about what class is better than the other - all classes have their strengths, and it's in using the variety of classes and builds available that you have fun in this game - don't limit yourselves to stereotypes.

And lastly, as respond to a question earlier:
Yes, BM's can tank FB59. I personally can solo it with only BM buff unwined, so yes we can tank it. We can also tank FB69, 79 and 89 - and probably 99 too (never tried). The bosses we have difficulties with are bosses such as Lord of Percussion (drum) because of his high crits. Aside from that, with a good cleric, we can do virtually the same as barbs.

hopaqo

Mik_scorpius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Please stop these endless discussion about what class is better than the other - all classes have their strengths, and it's in using the variety of classes and builds available that you have fun in this game - don't limit yourselves to stereotypes.

Like I mentioned above it is not BMs better than Barbs or Barbs better than BMs. But like question clearly stated how are BMs when it comes to Tanking. Solely anylyzing and comparing Tanking capabilities of Barbs and BMs.
Surely more in depth knowledge we have the better.

And lastly, as respond to a question earlier:
Yes, BM's can tank FB59. I personally can solo it with only BM buff unwined, so yes we can tank it. We can also tank FB69, 79 and 89 - and probably 99 too (never tried). The bosses we have difficulties with are bosses such as Lord of Percussion (drum) because of his high crits. Aside from that, with a good cleric, we can do virtually the same as barbs.

Did you solo FB59 when you were L59, and also did you find it more challenging Tanking yourself than suppose if a Barb was Tanking and you were DD. What about BHs, TTs for example. Have you tried Tanking them or know any BMs that do Tank.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

hopaqo wrote: »

Did you solo FB59 when you were L59, and also did you find it more challenging Tanking yourself than suppose if a Barb was Tanking and you were DD. What about BHs, TTs for example. Have you tried Tanking them or know any BMs that do Tank.

BM can tank all BH 100s as can archer and wiz (well geared sins too now)
TTs...BMs can tank all TT boss much harder but doable for archer and sin too

Telarith - Sanctuary

A lvl 62 and under completed a FB59 with a BM tank. They were using swords, so DD had to hold back a bit. We tried using the wizzie to tank the water boss, but not enough health so ended with BM tanking that as well. Other than that one part, went pretty easy. So doable.

Susylu - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

BM can tank all BH 100s as can archer and wiz (well geared sins too now)
TTs...BMs can tank all TT boss much harder but doable for archer and sin too

I have yet to meet a bm that can tank certain world bosses (not enough hp for it) but other than that we can tank just about anything yeah.

Then again with the right gear, you can tank just about anything with the melee classes.

Mik_scorpius - Heavens Tear

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I have yet to meet a bm that can tank certain world bosses (not enough hp for it) but other than that we can tank just about anything yeah.

Then again with the right gear, you can tank just about anything with the melee classes.

Indeed!

Again, it is pointless to talk about what classes can do what. With the right gear all classes can tank and DD insanely! Build and gear plays a huge role in this game. The class skills are just the third of the three determining factors: Gear, build, skills. And skills are the only ones that are 100% determined (even though you can choose your focus of course).

And as a respond to your post, hopaqu, then no - I did NOT solo FB59 at lvl 59. Honestly no class can do that. I can solo the FB at my present level and ever since I was 90 (as said, gear means a lot).
However, my cleric could solo his own BH29's at lvl 45 b:laugh

Knownase - Heavens Tear

For the most part at 90+, anything can be consider a tank with the right gear.


Barbs are just.....there now. lol


Archers, BMs and Sins with very nice -interval gear can make anything ALOT faster.


Want 20 minute Nirvana runs or very short 3-3 runs? Have a fist BM/Archer/Sin tank. :P

Jiblet - Sanctuary

Hey, don't forget us wizzies...everybody KNOWS that we're the best tanksb:laugh