Are debuffs worth learning?

ILubby - Raging Tide

I was wondering if the debuffs/seals worth any good as I noticed they debuff you as well
And will it make THAT difference if you debuff a boss in a squad or something? Will that make you steal aggro? Should I max my buffs and heals first then focus on them as they are not primary?
Oh and a high lvl cleric told me - when I groupped to kill Fugma - not to heal, I will steal aggro, so I just need an explanation on how can a cleric steal aggro,....especially those ghoul like mobs in the hall of deception in BH29(Qingzi) <----died couple times because of them, yes the squad was just watching b:angry

NinnaXXX - Sanctuary

ILubby - Raging Tide wrote: »

I was wondering if the debuffs/seals worth any good as I noticed they debuff you as well
And will it make THAT difference if you debuff a boss in a squad or something? Will that make you steal aggro? Should I max my buffs and heals first then focus on them as they are not primary?
Oh and a high lvl cleric told me - when I groupped to kill Fugma - not to heal, I will steal aggro, so I just need an explanation on how can a cleric steal aggro,....especially those ghoul like mobs in the hall of deception in BH29(Qingzi) <----died couple times because of them, yes the squad was just watching b:angry

well debuffs are pretty usefull in my opinion, and yes buffs and heals(ironheart) should be maxed first.You can steal aggro if you heal tank before he hits the boss or group of mobs atleast once if there is a group of mobs you shouldnt heal before you see him agrro all mobs.

Qlngfu - Archosaur

ILubby - Raging Tide wrote: »

I was wondering if the debuffs/seals worth any good as I noticed they debuff you as wellfor PvP, max all. for PvE, max all. P/Mdeff debuff is usefull against bosses and will make things for a tiny weeny faster, sleep and paralize got potential to save you or your squad members in alot of cases. if a bosses got a nasty aoe, purify yourself after debuffing!


And will it make THAT difference if you debuff a boss in a squad or something? Will that make you steal aggro? Should I max my buffs and heals first then focus on them as they are not primary?max your primary heals anfd buffs then lvl your debuffs when you got alot spare sp and coin.
Oh and a high lvl cleric told me - when I groupped to kill Fugma - not to heal, I will steal aggro, so I just need an explanation on how can a cleric steal aggro,....especially those ghoul like mobs in the hall of deception in BH29(Qingzi) <----died couple times because of them, yes the squad was just watching b:angrywhat NinaXXX wrote..make sure to tell your squad to aoe the mobs if they are bunched up or you will die a very very painfull and noobish dead -.-

b:cute

O.o
^_^ fruitloopz

Mendolin - Sanctuary

they are more important in your later levels than they are for you right now... but thats just my opinion

Reichle - Sanctuary

I was beginning to wonder the same thing! And of those debuffs, which is most important/useful?

Mendolin - Sanctuary

Reichle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was beginning to wonder the same thing! And of those debuffs, which is most important/useful?

All depends on what you as a cleric find more important.

Elemental Seal- If you want to hit harder (other than your phys attacks) and the other members of the magic class to hit harder.

Dimensional Seal- If you want your melee party members to hit harder and your phys attacks to hit harder.

Silent Seal- If you want to immobalize a mob moving towards you and hit it a couple times to possibly kill it before it reaches you.

Chromatic Seal- Sleep the target and kite, then if you are comfortable- hit it to null the sleep and continue.


For me- I use Elemental and Dimensional the most for PVE and Elemental, Silent and Chromatic for PVP

TheDan - Sanctuary

Just learn to use a bow for when you run out of mana, then you won't be completely useless b:victory

Reichle - Sanctuary

Mendolin - Sanctuary wrote: »

All depends on what you as a cleric find more important.

For me- I use Elemental and Dimensional the most for PVE and Elemental, Silent and Chromatic for PVP

Thanks so much! Ah teh awesomeness of forums pleases me again....+.+

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Dimensional Seal's effect can be done by a barb or veno as well but elemental seal's effect can only be done by a veno's 79 skill. Better max elemental seal first.

Balthier - Dreamweaver

I use all the debuffs alot lately. They are super useful for many situations pvp or pve.

However! I hardly used them at all pre lvl 80. Mostly only Elemental/Dimensional seal on TT bosses and such. So they are hardly vital till later lvls, unless you plan to pvp alot early on.

I'd say put them on your 3rd priority list, which means get them when you've got every other vital skill first. You'll easily max them out at around lvl 80 anyway, when SP gets abundant.

Aya__ - Heavens Tear

elemental and dimensional seal - i use at bossess, they speed things up a lot. bigger squad means more visibke effect. and dont worry about debuffing yourself, someone else is usually tanking anyway...
silent seal: i maxed it after bh 79 without bm - useful for stopping runners in place, also can prevent some damage from melees
chromatic seal - i use ot to sleep things i want to run away from and in rare duels i get into
careful: silent and chromatic will not work on bossess.

worth learning? definitely yes, but i leveled heals, attacks and buffs first.

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

I'll typically use elemental and dimensional at bosses, unless there's a veno in party with me using ironwood which iirc has a stronger effect than a cleric's dimensional (though I could be wrong).

The other two I basically use if I grab one too many aggros and need to get out of town.

Padixeric - Sanctuary

i use elemental on bosses too, a lot actually...

about dimensional - ecatomb states:
veno (Ironwood Scarab)
Reduces enemy's physical defense by 30% for 10 seconds

cleric (Dimensional Seal)
Reduces your own
physical defense by 30% of equipment value to reduce enemy's
physical defense by 30% of equipment value. Lasts 20 seconds.

barb (Penetrate Armor)
Reduces target's
physical defense by 30% for 10 seconds and
increases your threat level.

therefore if i have veno or barb in squad for a boss (seldom missing both of them) i see the phys debuff as their job

in some cases clerics debuff might be higher, you'd have to check phys def of the bosses for that though. (and have a higher one yourself !)
but since venos are used to cast ironwood and barbs to penetrate armor anyway... no use in competing for the debuff imho


and about purify oneself, that's only needed if boss has aoe, otherwise i dont bother with it

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

Padixeric - Sanctuary wrote: »

in some cases clerics debuff might be higher, you'd have to check phys def of the bosses for that though. (and have a higher one yourself !)
but since venos are used to cast ironwood and barbs to penetrate armor anyway... no use in competing for the debuff imho

That's basically my thought as well, as I am way too stupid to calculate the exact figures for each boss.

AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear

I like them. Short answer is yes. But not a priority.

Thelas_Carr - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just learn to use a bow for when you run out of mana, then you won't be completely useless b:victory

LOL, Better to learn the value of MP Event food an not run out of mana in the first place! b:chuckle

On the topic of clerics with bows... I had a person that INSISTED I use a bow on the Frozen Heads in the big EXP room of the FCC instance. No matter how many times I explained "I have 46 DEX, I'm a cleric, our kill rate will go down if you want me to use a bow..." She kept saying "No, you'll kill two heads with a bow and only 1 with your Cyclone, so USE A BOW DEMMIT!" -_- Since I can only use a L3 Bow (Sparrowhawk), I miss the target maybe 30% of the time and when I do get a hit, their physical damage reduction means I didnt' get a kill in one-shot.

So clerics and bows? No, unless you have some nerf-build that has over 100 DEX (which probably means you sacrificed MAG thus the "nerf-build" moniker).

For those of you thinking this would be better, just don't demand we use a bow in FCC head-room... it hurts the whole squad. b:surrender

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Dimensional seal and veno's ironwood debuff has the same % but things are different when its converted into sage/demon skills.

Cleric's is fixed at 40%.
sage/demon(one of those) veno gets 40% but the other one gets a 20%(not sure about this number) to make the def 0 instead.

The best would still be barb's devour(50%) but since it consumes chi, most barbs are not used to having it as part of their macro.

Magicgabe - Lost City

Debuffing is highly situational but also useful.

Here's what I used them for

metal resist mag mobs....dimensional seal-->plume(til death)

phy attack mobs .....elemental seal--->freeze--->cylclone-->wield--->cyclone and then kite till death

bosses....i've seen my damage amped by 30-50% from this

BMs - potentially one-shoteable when slept, elemental seal, and tempest

Archers ... their defense drops like a stone when debuff(or so it seems)

Elemental seal stacks nicely with wizard undine for insane damage from wiz

I do have a question though,

From what I can recall, dimensional seal debuff has a similar icon to other phy debuffs that barbs and venos use. So does the debuff take current deff - .3(equip def)
or simply .3(equip deff+(buff)equipdeff)? Cause of case one is true, then deffense is only lowered by 10-15% on against venos and wiz. Which could make it less usefull in PvP.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

I wish I had lots of more coin on me as all my debuffs are lvl 1.What would be one to lvl up a little?

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

Depends on your style, Mysti.

My suggestion for one to level would be either elemental seal for helping kill bosses faster, or chromatic seal to help with kiting, as well as stunning mobs in instances if a DD grabs aggro. One chromatic can stun the mob long enough for the tank to grab aggro back.

Reichle - Sanctuary

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Depends on your style, Mysti.

My suggestion for one to level would be either elemental seal for helping kill bosses faster, or chromatic seal to help with kiting, as well as stunning mobs in instances if a DD grabs aggro. One chromatic can stun the mob long enough for the tank to grab aggro back.

Thaz awesome. o_o I did not kno this.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Depends on your style, Mysti.

My suggestion for one to level would be either elemental seal for helping kill bosses faster, or chromatic seal to help with kiting, as well as stunning mobs in instances if a DD grabs aggro. One chromatic can stun the mob long enough for the tank to grab aggro back.

Thanks......

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

I my debuffs.

Maxed my defense reductions (both of them) in my 7xs...it's like RB, except you can DD and heal too (albeit not as powerful as RB, but the DDing more than makes up for it). In PvP, these can give you quite a bit of oomph, enough to bypass someone's charm.

Maxed Silent Seal in my 8xs...this skill is somewhat useful for runners, or for far away melee mobs aggroing you for some odd reason. Best part is, unlike sleep, you can still attack the target, making it great for grinding or soloing mobs and the like. In PvP however, this skill is great. Use it on a melee class, and you have ~10-20 seconds of DD time without even being touched. Use it on an archer up close, and you have ~10-20 seconds of half-damage (aside from those pesky lightning skills).

Maxed Chromatic Seal in my 8xs too...definitely has it's uses; accidentally get aggro from a mob? Sleep it and let the tank deal with it. In PvP it's great too. When you're running low on health, or just want to set up a nuke, use it and you'll get ~20 seconds of down time, where you could set up a heal chain, throw every debuff imagineable, or set up a catshop with the title "*yawn*", get out, and resume the fight.

One thing about maxing your movement debuffs is that you can setup a freeze/sleep chain where melees can't do anything b:chuckle

EDIT: Just did the above to some barb, he relogged b:chuckle

Aya__ - Heavens Tear

Thelas_Carr - Sanctuary wrote: »

LOL, Better to learn the value of MP Event food an not run out of mana in the first place! b:chuckle

On the topic of clerics with bows... I had a person that INSISTED I use a bow on the Frozen Heads in the big EXP room of the FCC instance. No matter how many times I explained "I have 46 DEX, I'm a cleric, our kill rate will go down if you want me to use a bow..." She kept saying "No, you'll kill two heads with a bow and only 1 with your Cyclone, so USE A BOW DEMMIT!" -_- Since I can only use a L3 Bow (Sparrowhawk), I miss the target maybe 30% of the time and when I do get a hit, their physical damage reduction means I didnt' get a kill in one-shot.

So clerics and bows? No, unless you have some nerf-build that has over 100 DEX (which probably means you sacrificed MAG thus the "nerf-build" moniker).

For those of you thinking this would be better, just don't demand we use a bow in FCC head-room... it hurts the whole squad. b:surrender

ummm... i have dex 5, carry lvl _1_ bow, and use it on heads... even with my abysmal accuracy i rarely miss and if i hit it _is_ oneshot... and i actually came to carrying a bow by myself, i did heads both with cyclone and with bow and decided bow works better.
also was on one run when noone else had bow on them so i lent my mighty lvl 1 bow with equally mighty lvl 1 arrows to bm, so they had easier job on oceania master's hands...

Qlngfu - Archosaur

i always end up using my crit arrows in heads room so i dont bother with bows anymore b:surrender

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

How do you equip crit arrows without a bow?

Torsay - Sanctuary

Thelas_Carr - Sanctuary wrote: »

So clerics and bows? No, unless you have some nerf-build that has over 100 DEX (which probably means you sacrificed MAG thus the "nerf-build" moniker).

Gold OHT armor can be better for level 100 LA cleric than TT99 gold armor. So LA clerics dont really need dex over 100 but max 99 exactly.

Nerf-build? I dont think so. I dont need super expensive gear to be albe to stay in front line in most of the dungeon runs. So I dont have to wait for unsure bms and barbs in FC for example.

While you as a full mag just wait to heal their asses there. Chicken.

Sure if you got super good gear then full mag is better.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Torsay - Sanctuary wrote: »

Gold OHT armor can be better for level 100 LA cleric than TT99 gold armor. So LA clerics dont really need dex over 100 but max 99 exactly.

Nerf-build? I dont think so. I dont need super expensive gear to be albe to stay in front line in most of the dungeon runs. So I dont have to wait for unsure bms and barbs in FC for example.

While you as a full mag just wait to heal their asses there. Chicken.

Sure if you got super good gear then full mag is better.

I won't say anything against this... but maybe you'll respect the arcane build a bit more when I two shot you?b:cute

ILubby - Raging Tide

Thank you guys, this is very informative, I'm really close on maxing my buffs (IH is maxed >>> stream of rejuvenation next ) so Imma work on debuffs a bit.

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

How do you equip crit arrows without a bow?

Just unequip your wep, equip a lvl 1 bow, equip arrows, take off your bow.
However, crit arrows do absolutely nothing except trick your character sheet into thinking you have a slightly higher crit rate, you don't actually crit more.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

^Ok.Thanks I won't probably use them just give them back to my archer as I get 3% with attandance ring now.