I are 89 D= Demon or Sage? @_@

Brigid - Harshlands

Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »

Yes, and I hate that because it makes quoting you a pain.

Sorry b:surrender

Also, I do not like having to point out that you are wrong. Nevertheless, for example: an archer with sage winged blessing has 34m range, but if they have a weapon which adds +2 range that works out to 36m range. But I can not figure out how your comment here makes sense:

?

And please do not try and tell me that you are not capable of adding 34 and 2? Please?

And also do not try and tell me that you can not use holy path or elven alacrity or a charger orb or whatever else (like maybe accelerate + wind force) to quickly move out of range of a ranged opponent but into a range that you can attack from, once you have them frozen or stunned? (Though I will agree that with weaker opponents they will die before they get out of stun. Stun might one shot them if they are weak enough.)

My point is, the only target where having 36m range will let you do this that having 32 meter range won't, is another archer. Caster classes' range maxes out at 30, for level 11 skills (well, except demon Mountain Seize at 35m). The only classes who can be outranged by a Sage archer that can't be outranged by a Demon archer are, well, Demon archers. And the only difference that going from 34m range to 36m range with a +range weapon makes is being able to outrange the aforementioned Demon MS, and Assassins. As I said before, if the assassin isn't in stealth, they're going to either die very quickly anyway or immediately Shadow Escape.

Anyways, for burst dps: I need to find out if sage stormrage eagelon actually reduces magical defense. If it does, in PvP, that combined with sage 20% max health reduction (which can be damage even if it is not inflicted directly) combined with a no channelling pot and a properly chosen skill sequence might give some decent burst dps?

(I just hate that I had to point this out -- this possibility has been sitting there staring all of you in the face since 2008 and I think maybe only 3 archers reading these forums have ever given the slightest hint that they had considered the issue. Instead, most everyone goes on and on about how sage archers have no source of burst DPS as if repeating something that is not true will make it right ...or something.)

That's pretty much the only thing I was thinking that might have some potential, and with Sages' chi gain skill, it may actually be feasible. I won't deny that it can lead to nice burst DPS, but I doubt it can lead to burst DPS higher than that of Demons.

20% decreased defenses is less than a 20% increase in damage, and 5% less HP to have to get through (80% vs 84%) really isn't enough to counter 12% lower critical hit chance and ~43% higher attack rate. It isn't so much that we haven't considered it, so much as we have, and found it wanting.

Quilue - Sanctuary

i heard sage stormrage actually decreases mattack and pattack similar to myriad blade...

Linwiz - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

i heard sage stormrage actually decreases mattack and pattack similar to myriad blade...

Defense not attack http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillpwi.php

Brigid - Harshlands

Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »

But I would not call demon wizards archers, even if they do have decent dps.

See, now you're just being nitpicky. And basing your cultivation choice on the ability to outrange one skill that only level 99+ demon wizards have is rather silly. Especially since the aforementioned wizard can still use Distance Shrink to get either into range, or out of range, depending on which way they're facing when you froze them. Do I really need to point out every single possibility before you're satisfied?

Have you even thought about fighting heavy armor opponents?

Yes. More than that, I've actually done it. And I'd still rather have 12% increased critical hit rate. Unless I crit at least two of my metal skills, I'm not going to get through their charm. Probably won't get through a barb's charm with my metal skills regardless of what I do, really. Having an extra elemental attack in the form of Frost Arrow may be useful, sure, but you have to keep in mind that it costs chi and suffers from the close-range penalty.

Plus, I'd rather play to an archer's strengths (taking out soft targets) than attempt to mitigate my weaknesses at the expense of my strengths.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Linwiz - Lost City wrote: »

Defense not attack http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillpwi.php

i know what ecatomb says, jeez.

http://www.ecatomb.net/my/skillmy.php

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=555662&page=2

TigerLily - Lost City

Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »

Y

Anyways, for burst dps: I need to find out if sage stormrage eagelon actually reduces magical defense. If it does, in PvP, that combined with sage 20% max health reduction (which can be damage even if it is not inflicted directly) combined with a no channelling pot and a properly chosen skill sequence might give some decent burst dps?

.

Sage Stormrage only gives 20% magic/phy def reduction of equipment value. Which isn't the same thing as a 20% reduction. So on a fully buffed player its not more than a 3-4% loss of reduction. Its pretty much like getting debuffed by a 3x cleric b:chuckle.

I know at least 10 things you're better of using sparks for as archer if you wanna deal dmg than Stormrage - like triple spark or Blood Vow b:surrender.

The zooming powder that gives instant channeling is very god tho, however its only for 5 sec and a lot of players have anti metal on genie or they can domain/immune it and than you have the 10 year cool down before you can use a pvp pot again which leaves you rather defenseless <.<

Also you still need to crit on every single metal skill after the charm ticked, if you wanna kill anyone that actually matters, which is harder for sage since 12% less crit.

Quilue - Sanctuary

does TigerLily has sage stormrage? b:question

if so, can you confirm if it does decrease defense?

Telarith - Sanctuary

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Sage Stormrage only gives 20% magic/phy def reduction of equipment value. Which isn't the same thing as a 20% reduction. So on a fully buffed player its not more than a 3-4% loss of reduction. Its pretty much like getting debuffed by a 3x cleric b:chuckle.

That skill should stack with the metal debuff for a total of 70% damage reduction, which would make its debuff better as it would have a greater effect with deminishing returns on defense. Not sure if that would actually make it worth the 2 sparks, and if doing an assist likely someone else has a higher mag def debuff, but could be worth looking into. Would also boost the skill damage if it is used after Thunder Shock. But you'd still be looking at finishing them off after charm tick and not spiking passed it.

Brigid - Harshlands

Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »

If I am being nitpicky, I would be being nitpicky about your use of the word "only".

Because non-Demon Wizards can learn Demon Mountain's Seize? Or perhaps there's some way to learn it before level 99 that I'm unaware of?

If you're referring to my previous use of the word "only", then yes, perhaps I neglected to mention one skill, used by one class, that can still counter it using Distance Shrink.

That particular tactic with that particular skill works against a variety of classes, and has an overpowering over demon archers and can also trump demon wizards (sage stun works against them and even their freeze will sometimes seal). But the added range can also help when fighting other classes since its just a bit extra that they must deal with. Though, granted, your chance of sealing someone using movement debuff immune is small, its still better than for demons.

Of course it works against a variety of classes. The thing is, it works against the same variety of classes, with the exception of a Demon archer, whether your Winged Blessing is Demon or Sage. 2 extra meters of range is not enough to buy you more than a fraction of a second, at best.

If someone's using a movement debuff immunity, I'm not going to waste a spark trying an Aim Low, in the hopes that it will proc a 25% chance. That spark is far better used on Winged Shell, Wings of Grace, or Elven Alacrity, depending on the situation.

Yes, Sage Aim Low has a chance of a 5-second seal. Demon Aim Low has a chance of a 3-second stun. Yes, Sage Stun lasts 1 second longer. Demon Stun gives +10% critical. I won't deny that Sage Stunning arrow is nice, but it's not nice enough in my mind to justify passing up Demon Quickshot and the increased critical from the passives and STA/Stun. I don't win most fights by keeping the opponent stunned, I win them by going past or through their charm. Crits help with both, and are basically necessary against HA.

I am curious about your "I've actually done it". Were you using sage stormrage eagelon? Or triple spark? Or both (that is unlikely but possible)? If so, can you report on your gear and your opponents?

Demon Spark, yes. Eagleon in any form, no. Have much better things to use 2 sparks on.

Equipment is decent, but not great. Bracers of Blood Moon, Rank 4 top/L87 mold top, FC green legs and boots, Sky Demon's Pearl, Demon Slaughter Belt, 3* Helmet of the Righteous with +236 PDef and +4 Vit, 2 Rings of the Heavenly Lord. Everything's refined to +2/3, and sharded with 3 or 4 G6/7 Citrines. Total of 3.9k HP, ~2.9k MDef, ~3k PDef, all unbuffed.

Weapon is currently rather poor. +3 Vast Land, 1 G7 garnet. Have Demon Quickshot, Lightning Strike, and Blazing Arrow.

Really can't give you much information about opponents, as they vary. Typically high 8x/9x, with gear on par with or better than mine. I'm well aware that my low refines are handicapping me, but as I'm not a cash shopper, I need to retain enough operating capital to merchant properly.

Finally, with regards to debuffs: I've heard that debuffs only have half of their nominal effect in PvP, but I've never bothered actually testing. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Telarith - Sanctuary

The half effect could possibly be referring to a target that is fully buffed. With the Magic Shell adding +60% mag def, it would mean you'd essentially be neutralizing that as opposed to a full on debuff without the use of a purge proc or veno assist. Only thing I can think of them meaning off the top of my head.

Zhadi - Archosaur

forget skills, forget everything.

This is the main reason to go Demon.

1
Demon Archers say: Demon is the way to go!
Sage Archers say: It's really up to you. Choose whichever path you want ^^

2
Demon Archers: always completely happy they went demon
Sage Archers: Some are happy, but a lot of experienced players say that they are nerfed.

As simple as that.

kerenta

Sage for me. I hate PVP and I find Sage better for PVE.

Hario - Lost City

My first post in forums...b:victory but I feel like i have to speak out to keep people from making the same mistake i did. As a sage ea with almost all of my sage skills...i truly regret it. Sure sage ST speeds things up in pve, but nowadays higher lvls eas just pop on -int gears and fists and go to town on bosses with perma 3 spark anyways (which you cant really do with sage unless you're completely decked out with -int gears) Listen to Lily and go demon, that's what I plan to do thanks to the new addition to the boutique even though it's going to be expensive as hell getting 4050 tokens again for the demon ea skill set among other miscellaneous skills (thank God i got quickshot already) and actually getting sp and coins to learn it all over again, its worth it...trust me. Both my friend and I have +10 cv bows and he's demon, we have roughly the same gears (mine's actually a little better) and he takes aggro from me 99% of the time in pve which means he out DDs me 99% of the time. I don't even need to begin to explain why demon eas are better in pvp because that horse has been beaten to death so many times. So all in all, sage isn't really good for much.


edit: i just realized my avatar is lvl 88 for some reason..but ask Lily...i am 100

Zhadi - Archosaur

Hario - Lost City wrote: »

My first post in forums...b:victory but I feel like i have to speak out to keep people from making the same mistake i did. As a sage ea with almost all of my sage skills...i truly regret it. Sure sage ST speeds things up in pve, but nowadays higher lvls eas just pop on -int gears and fists and go to town on bosses with perma 3 spark anyways (which you cant really do with sage unless you're completely decked out with -int gears) Listen to Lily and go demon, that's what I plan to do thanks to the new addition to the boutique even though it's going to be expensive as hell getting 4050 tokens again for the demon ea skill set among other miscellaneous skills (thank God i got quickshot already) and actually getting sp and coins to learn it all over again, its worth it...trust me. Both my friend and I have +10 cv bows and he's demon, we have roughly the same gears (mine's actually a little better) and he takes aggro from me 99% of the time in pve which means he out DDs me 99% of the time. I don't even need to begin to explain why demon eas are better in pvp because that horse has been beaten to death so many times. So all in all, sage isn't really good for much.


edit: i just realized my avatar is lvl 88 for some reason..but ask Lily...i am 100

Zhadi - Archosaur wrote: »

forget skills, forget everything.

This is the main reason to go Demon.

1
Demon Archers say: Demon is the way to go!
Sage Archers say: It's really up to you. Choose whichever path you want ^^

2
Demon Archers: always completely happy they went demon
Sage Archers: Some are happy, but a lot of experienced players say that they are nerfed.

As simple as that.

Nuff said?b:bye

Fyren - Heavens Tear

Am i the only one who still have this http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=263481 bookmarked eventhough i was already demon when i read this? All you sage archers do yourself a favor and buy that Celestial Schism Mold. Also why would anyone playing an archer not have pvp as their focus?

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Fyren - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also why would anyone playing an archer not have pvp as their focus?

For roleplaying purposes. The character Elena Costel has a full background regarding her origins.

Demon made sense for her, in-character.

Illyana - Dreamweaver

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

does TigerLily has sage stormrage? b:question

if so, can you confirm if it does decrease defense?

Sorry, just saw this.

TigerLily is wrong. Sage SE reduces physical and magical damage of the target by 20% for the duration of the skill (30 seconds).

TigerLily - Lost City

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sorry, just saw this.

TigerLily is wrong. Sage SE reduces physical and magical damage of the target by 20% for the duration of the skill (30 seconds).

Do you have it learned? I only have it in my bank, never had spare sp to learn it. Never meet or seen any sage archer that used it either everyone has it in bank lol. Just know what it sais on the book - reduces targets physical and magical defense based on 20% of equipment value which would be a kinda nonsense debuff. But the translations on the books here in general tends to get mixed up.

On PW MY-EN is sais that Sage SE reduces -20% of targets magic and phy attack. Maybe thats more accurate. Actually would be pretty useful in group pvp if you wanna nerf some major DDs spike dmg. In terms of 1v1 still seems like a waste of 2 sparks.

Archalt - Sanctuary

I went Sage and I'm happy with it. c: I don't have to be Sage OR Demon to pwn in PVE... But it's a nice extra, some Sage skills are pretty useful... but I only got 3, because I do not need more power. Overkill much. xD

Fyren - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also why would anyone playing an archer not have pvp as their focus?

Just because people think Archers at good at PVP, that doesn't mean every Archers MUST PVP. Any classes can be good at PVP with the right gear. I've played many MMOs, and I mainly play Archers because I like the fight style and I love bows. Yet, I hate PVP. I don't see the point of it. Even though I have an Archer, I would fail at PVP because I only tried it once in an other game years ago and hated it. xD Archers are fun to play and very good at PVE, too... unfortunately, many people forget about this. :c

Aquilez - Sanctuary

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've never gotten the whole "****" thing, to be honest. I do realize it's an in-joke and everything (stormrage, etc.) but aside from the metal skill poses, there's nothing I can see that would lead to that conclusion. :P Eh.

tt90 armor looks way to **** for us b:cry

/NiKi - Lost City

Aquilez - Sanctuary wrote: »

tt90 armor looks way to **** for us b:cry

would u like a dress more like clerics and mages?lol
i dont think LA looks **** for males.arcane for males is worst..a guy in a dress b:chuckle
but again everyone wears fashion so isnt really matter anyway.
arcane hh90 for females is smexy tho b:dirty

Aquilez - Sanctuary

/NiKi - Lost City wrote: »

would u like a dress more like clerics and mages?lol
i dont think LA looks **** for males.arcane for males is worst..a guy in a dress b:chuckle
but again everyone wears fashion so isnt really matter anyway.
arcane hh90 for females is smexy tho b:dirty

well, anywhere you look mages use robes, so is kinda natural thing. TT90 LA chest armor is what makes seems ****, that is the only thing that made me have clothes XD

on topic: i would say go demon, i was saved a few times because of the increased atack rate and crits. some wizard could hit me for 4-5k while i hited back for 1,5-2k(normal shots) , and still i could take that wiz a few times thanks to the 10% crit from stun shot + atack rate from quickshot