Make killing monsters worth my time.

Barbarian - Dreamweaver

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

bidding a little too low or a little too high or in too great quantities, etc... etc... etc...

Probably THE most important thing to learn.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

The Auction House filters need to be fixed so people can sort and browse items more easily. They need to add a way to sort the auctions of a particular item by price, so you can immediately see which listing has the lowest price, like how the gold sales window is automatically sorted.

a big +1 to this

Yindra - Sanctuary

redhog2 wrote: »

How about not doing your dailies b:shutup

Well, I don't do BH, just the School Teacher thing. Which doesn't make me rich. However, I find that the games work much better if you aren't too concerned about getting uber-gear. I'll never have "TT" stuff, or whatever the uber-gear is, but I don't really care a lot either.

Still, let the trademutants discuss their trademutant worries. Casuals aren't involved with that anyway. I do my quests, then I do my dragon quest (mostly while being AFK) until the levelup, maybe with a few One Man Army and Crazy Stones thrown in (can't do them daily, as it costs about 25K and I hate spending more than I get). I could do FB19s and FB29s, but I'm not in a guild. Don't know whether the exp would be worth it either. I'm currently on my way to my 5th million --- so really, I couldn't care less about "TT" and whatever gear, or whether it costs 500M or recently dropped to 300M because "the economy is dead". Or did it go up to 800M? Who cares.

And yes, the 2x drop was noticeable, and a nice bonus. It affected DQ items and even normal gear drops as well; I still think it helped on the gear front. Yes, I do look at every item of the correct types and compare it to what I'm wearing. Not that any trademutant would care about that, though --- if it doesn't glow and has a pricetag of at least 1000M it's just trash, right?

Come on, there are more people in the game than just trademutants and "pro" gamers running bosses 24/7 to get an edge in their PvP ****.

Atreana - Lost City

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I really, really dislike this statement.

It may seem strange, but I like grinding. It's weird, but I actually enjoy playing the game. I like to click on a target, and press a few keys which result in the death of said target.

I do not believe blame should be assigned upon someone who simply wants to play their class.

Well said. I created a character to pew pew and not to mew mew in the game.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

Atreana - Lost City wrote: »

Well said. I created a character to pew pew and not to mew mew in the game.

+ another one.

I play to play. I for one have lvl 7 craftsman and tailor and working on blacksmith from (i know this sounds foreign) grinding for my own mats. Yes i use alts where the drop rate seems better but still some people like to play rather then play salesman all day. This isnt Perfect World Tycoon. at least not for me

Kilala - Lost City

PlumDumb - Heavens Tear wrote: »

welllllll since im not a fail oracler..or a failllllll exp stone user.Ive been doing pretty well paying my repair bills,pots and anything i need on my alt by just doing my quest and getting money drops on that and of course..farming mats..mids and high mats are awsome profit.I can farm for 30 min and go back to arch and make 300-500k in arch just selling to a cat shop.If your grinding for coins..coin drops are stank but dq and armor are good(remember to repair your found armor then sell it to the merchant for more coinage)

i call these people alts or nobody's and i dont give nobodys respect.Jus how i rollb:pleased

EthikaII - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Um... Waffle isn't a cleric, man. ._.

And if you can make 150k an hour with regular grinding, good for you. There was a time I could do the same... back when I was lv60, which was a good year or so ago. Now I can't get practically anything unless 2x is on. The last quest I did involved Firebath Phoenixes. After killing somewhere between 75-80 of these I noticed that I'd gotten a grand total of five DQ items. That's one DQ for every 15 mobs or so.

I realize it's random and all, but at some point you have to question it. There's been a general consensus in these past few months that DQ drops were nerfed.

lol... glad you pionted out the cle/ric<Archer thing. and this is how i feel.non x2 grinded is useless now. it feels as if the drop rate has be lowered completly as a excuse to have x2. back well before x2 and Tb expansion i could grind 4 mil in 3 or 4 days(for a Nein) on aurum? spectors. why is it in most games the coin drop amount always increaases as you lvl here it stops at 200+-300+. Iv never seen even 400 coins drop. and someoen already mentions the exp you get from a mob doesn't change from mid to higher lvls.which is very much bs.and for you guys saying catshop. catshop with what ? i spend my money stocking up on mp or repairs then i end up with nothing and grinding doesn't get me good drops it gets me 3-4 armor drops with **** adds that no one would even want. A piece of armor with vit+4 and no sockets nothing else isn't worth my time in ah.I want the drop rate to increase like it was well before Tb expansion. I know most ppl can feel it has dramaticly dropped.

Back to the guys talking catshop. i don't buy charms/teles/eventpacks/GS/trianing esotericas's/D. Orbs/socket stones/dyes. to put in a cash shop. if i were to get any of that to constantly sale in a cash shop it would require me to grind money to get. seems to contradict itself.there was a time i could buy pots,fashion,a new mount,skills. and it was even during the **** times of gold being around 400k.

_Seadrop - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It may seem strange, but I like grinding. It's weird, but I actually enjoy playing the game. I like to click on a target, and press a few keys which result in the death of said target.

I do not believe blame should be assigned upon someone who simply wants to play their class.

Same here...

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

PlumDumb - Heavens Tear wrote: »

(remember to repair your found armor then sell it to the merchant for more coinage)

That doesnt work. If your repair cost is 9800 for an armor drop, you'd make 9800 more by selling it. Its a net 0 operation;

(fully repaired sale - repair cost) = unrepaired sale.

Dont bother with the repair.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

EthikaII - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Back to the guys talking catshop. i don't buy charms/teles/eventpacks/GS/trianing esotericas's/D. Orbs/socket stones/dyes. to put in a cash shop. if i were to get any of that to constantly sale in a cash shop it would require me to grind money to get. seems to contradict itself.

You're correct, but only to get started.

I have a low-level alt on Lost City where my first 250k came from just playing and grinding, but after that the money to buy stuff to sell comes from the profits. It's a snowball effect.

So probably I've spent 6 hours playing to get the first 250k, then maybe a grand total of 2 hours of active cat-shopping/merchanting to turn that 250k into 11 million. (Plus, of course, a whole bunch of leaving the computer running while I'm working/sleeping/doing other things, but that doesn't cost me any of my time.)

Olba - Sanctuary

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

So probably I've spent 6 hours playing to get the first 250k, then maybe a grand total of 2 hours of active cat-shopping/merchanting to turn that 250k into 11 million. (Plus, of course, a whole bunch of leaving the computer running while I'm working/sleeping/doing other things, but that doesn't cost me any of my time.)

One of these days, when you're walking down a dark alleyway, a mob of hooligans will beat you up and steal all of your treasures. I'm sure of it. I've seen it. No, that's wrong, I was informed of it by a greater power.b:cute

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

One of these days, when you're walking down a dark alleyway, a mob of hooligans will beat you up and steal all of your treasures. I'm sure of it. I've seen it. No, that's wrong, I was informed of it by a greater power.b:cute

Yeah yeah yeah... I've heard it all before. *eye rolls*

Meur - Dreamweaver

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Now we all know, before hypers, before oracles, and before the discovery of delta there was killing mobs for experience. This monotonous task is now outweighed by the huge number of coin sink daily quests, which consume a large amount of time and people's income. With these holes constantly in our wallets... how does one break even? So many just blanket it with 'mercantilism' as the quick answer. But how far does that really take us?

One needs something to put in the cat to make the cat make cash. But, in reality, some of us would much rather level than perouse cat shops and scour the AH for bargains and mistypes on prices. The only other logical answer is to farm.

With these tokens in effect, the mat market is easily a no win situation, especially for wines. What else can we farm? DQs and gear drops of course! But theres just one problem. Monsters dont drop diddly squat.

This is a petition to make killing 1v1, or aoe, etc worth while again. Monsters at the 80+ range just do not drop enough loots to make up for these huge coin and time sinks put in place. The do not yield even half the exp avaliable from these time consuming dailies either. I humbly impose there be a permanent 1.5x exp/drop rate put in place on anything but boss monsters.

Logically, I can see this as a way to finally break even and make money, instead of having to charge gold whenever I want a new gear. I do not have the time, nor want to make the effort to give in to the nickel and diming of the major cash shopping community. I should not have to pay money to keep up gear wise and level wise with my rivals and friends for pve/pvp purposes. I should not have to wonder where I am going to get coin for tommorows dailies.

Make monster killing worth doing again! While were on this same topic, there is the issue of reputation. Currently, the 3 rep per 80 mobs isnt cutting the cheese. Such mundane tasks should yield greater reward. I also impose that one man armies and justice quests be bolstered in terms of reputation earned. One should not have to pay nearly 4300$ just to experience the final rank.

Some of us free players have needs too you know?

RED = Where GMs stopped reading.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Meur - Dreamweaver wrote: »

RED = Where Dev's stopped reading.

Agreed b:surrender.

EDIT: Ironic how my 1,000th post is about Dev's only caring about the money lol.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Yea, can't deny how good merchanting is.

When the tiger backs came out recently, I took the 5mil I had been saving up and started buying and selling tokens. Sunday night I had managed to get 30mil from all that, which I promptly spent and now feel stupid for because I have nothing to merchant with QQ.

But still, 5mil to 30mil and I didn't do anything, Just go look at my other computer once in a while to modify my catshop.



Of course I have 2 computers and accounts, I'm aware not everyone will be able to do that.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Della_Brown - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If you're making 200 transactions in a day, are you:
1. Buying low from another cat-shop or a lowball auction, to sell it higher yourself,
2. buying and reselling the same items in a shop, or are you
3. doing a lot more work than I am?

I spend 10-15 minutes, over typically 3-4 hours of play, checking cat shops and the AH, when I have to be wandering around Arch anyway.

The amount of transactions has nothing to do with how hard or little I work, my catshop does both, I just need to make sure I'm stocked up, and that isn't difficult at all. My profit margin is smaller than my competitors, but I do far more volume than they do. I don't really work for my profits, I'm extremely lazy and prefer my shop to do the work for me.

I haven't noticed any particular difference in the time I am sitting on items (maybe I sell most of them too low at the AH?), and it's much easier to sit on them for a few days in the mailbox or AH, instead of my inventory or safe. I don't bother with the AH on anything I won't be making 100k+ on, since the fees can eat into it a good bit if you're only making tens of thousands of coin in profit, and have to relist it a few times.

Yeah, the AH is a waste of time and money to sell. Listing and selling fees just make it profit prohibitive, but if you don't want to cat shop, then yeah, it works if you just use it from time to time.

I used to play the mid and high mats... I would make 2-4m profit a day, but that was far too much effort to keep a shop buying and selling maintained. I haven't done it in a while, but I don't think it's as profitable as it used to be, seeing that cheap tokens have been around for a while now. The new save feature for merchanting would make this so easy, but I've already found my niche and am doing quite well at it.

If you are nearing endgame, not needing space for quest items and items for future uses, and you can make much more than a lvl 20-25 that was started off with profits from a lvl 45 grinding during 2x drops, some of which included spending millions of coin on clothing, I just don't see how I'm doing poorly. You should be making much more than I am.

I didn't say you were doing poorly, just that your method doesn't work for me... I'm too lazy, it's too much work, and I don't want my money held up in items I may or may not be able to unload quickly. i'm really talking about the most profitibility with the least amount of effort.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

I used to play the mid and high mats... I would make 2-4m profit a day, but that was far too much effort to keep a shop buying and selling maintained. I haven't done it in a while, but I don't think it's as profitable as it used to be, seeing that cheap tokens have been around for a while now. The new save feature for merchanting would make this so easy, but I've already found my niche and am doing quite well at it.

I used to do that but with a huge supply of cheap tokens around, there's really not much money to be made there.



I buy tokens and resell them a little bit higher, when packs are in the cash shop. Then a few days before they leave I stock up and resell a few days after they leave. After that I try a little bit of everything, the most money seems to be in mirages and perfect stones.





But, back on topic. I agree. I haven't grinded on regular mobs in.......


Actually I can't even remember the last time. No point in doing so when I can get xp much faster doing FC, and get money much faster doing TT.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

I used to do that but with a huge supply of cheap tokens around, there's really not much money to be made there.

Yeah, but it might be about time to start buying a lot of mats cheap in anticipation of token packs leaving again... but like I said, I'm far too lazy and it does take a bit of regular maintenance, price changing to make it worth the hassle. I'd rather sell refining aids and charms which have a higher profit margin, but much lower turnaround rate... And I'm still too lazy for that lol.

_Lyra - Lost City

The sheer amount of coin that is in circulation on the server is ridiculous. The LAST thing we really need is an increase in coin drops from mobs. And the very idea of BH, crazy stone, and world quest is to create a coin sink for the game (which is, arguably, not altogether very efficient atm). BH takes up coins for tele back and forth, crazy stone directly exchanges coin for exp, and wq takes anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour out of everyones daily grinding capabilities. The general idea is either A) level fast or make money.

The only way to do both easily and efficiently is by investing real money into the game. Which is, as you can figure out, the main point of a F2P game.

Della_Brown - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah, the AH is a waste of time and money to sell. Listing and selling fees just make it profit prohibitive, but if you don't want to cat shop, then yeah, it works if you just use it from time to time.

If I buy at 600k, and sell at 1.1 mil, the fees don't do that much. Far lower margins still work well for bulk CS items that have good demand.

I didn't say you were doing poorly, just that your method doesn't work for me... I'm too lazy, it's too much work, and I don't want my money held up in items I may or may not be able to unload quickly. i'm really talking about the most profitibility with the least amount of effort.

I find keeping up with items, at least until the early 40s, is a PITA, or costs tons of coin later (if I buy banker and DQ items, I lose way more than the benefit of saving them early, FI). I'm also naturally a pack rat, and try to plan ahead, so my next goal is a super inventory stone. I also haven't found a good niche for a shop. I figure I'll do that as well, regularly, once I have spare room to randomly collect in-demand items to build an inventory, to find niches.

While I can pull off buy low sell high for some things, where people get X out of it, but it takes a little effort to find whatever it is cheaper than normal, or takes added time and effort to get just what you're looking for (take pigments as an example)...I don't understand enough about how a gambler behaves to be willing to try buying/selling packs or tokens.

I guess the thing that works for you, and makes some sense, seems to take less work.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah, but it might be about time to start buying a lot of mats cheap in anticipation of token packs leaving again... but like I said, I'm far too lazy and it does take a bit of regular maintenance, price changing to make it worth the hassle. I'd rather sell refining aids and charms which have a higher profit margin, but much lower turnaround rate... And I'm still too lazy for that lol.

I dunno, last time tokens were gone the prices went up a bit but, there were so many tokens in the economy that the prices really didn't rise that much. And with the length of time these tiger packs will be in the shop I really don't see tokens going up too much.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually your cow & chicken example illustrates that people are taking a loss, you're just hiding it in logistics.

The Cow farmer doesnt realize that for his gallon of milk, he could get a dozen eggs on the open market, so he gives 2 gallons to Bob, who is sheilding him from this knowledge. Likewise, the Chicken farmer doesnt realize he can get a gallon of milk from just 1 dozen eggs, so He gives 2 dozen to Bob just for his gallon. The middle-man, Bob, effectively manipulated the market by hiding information, and got free goods for putting in no real work other then running what is effectively a scam. The chicken got less then the value of his goods, and so did the cow farmer, meanwhile Bob took advantage of them both and walks away with free goods.

As was pointed out, logistics adds value to the economy too. If Bob has found a chicken and cow farmer who wish to exchange their goods, why is he obligated to give that information for free? Should be chicken farmer be obligated to give away eggs for free just because he's figured out a way to raise chickens that lay eggs? Should Intel be required to give away the designs for their processors simply because they're information and not a material product?

In in-game terms, I played around a lot with different locations and prices for my shop. It took a lot of trial and error, a lot of time, and a lot of note-taking for me to find good locations and what buy/sell prices "worked" in those spots to let me acquire stuff as quickly as I could sell it.

You call this "shielding" others from this knowledge as if I obtained it for "free" with "no real work". It wasn't free - I put a heckuva lot of work into learning it. And that work allows me to make the market more efficient and scrape a slightly bigger profit as a result.*

If the cow and chicken farmer wish to put in the work to find each other so they can exchange their goods without Bob taking a cut, then more power to them. But in practical terms, they don't do it because they find it easier and cheaper to let Bob do it even after he takes a cut.

I learned this while helping manage a business at a previous job. I thought we could save money by buying equipment directly from manufacturers. We did get it more cheaply, but the additional busywork of finding the manufacturers, establishing accounts with them, negotiating prices, making separate orders and filing the extra paperwork, and dealing with returns when an order went bad, it just wasn't worth it. In the end we went back to ordering from a consolidating wholesaler who charged higher prices, but vastly simplified our procurement process.

If a economics of the market favor no middlemen, then that's what will arise naturally. If most players looking to buy stuff were willing to set up cat shops buying them directly, then that's what they'd do, and there would be no room for merchants acting as middlemen. But most players don't do that, so the middlemen who are willing to do it provide that service for them, taking a cut out of the transaction. If you really think it's a scam, then stop buying from/selling to shops and AH. Your income will be reduced because NPC buy prices are lower. And you'll waste a lot more time grinding for all the drops and mats you need instead of being able to buy them.

*I actually do give this information away for free on a limited basis. If anyone in my faction asks for market prices on an item, I tell them. If someone asks in WC for a price check on an item, I tell them. I probably wouldn't do that with a real business, but this is a game and I have no problem with helping improve others' enjoyment of the game.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I really, really dislike this statement.

It may seem strange, but I like grinding. It's weird, but I actually enjoy playing the game. I like to click on a target, and press a few keys which result in the death of said target.

I do not believe blame should be assigned upon someone who simply wants to play their class.

Perhaps "blame" was too strong a word. I was speaking more of a cause/effect relationship.

Sneakret - Heavens Tear

I believe that coming into the upper levels, the grinding seems to be much less efficient as the drop rates degrade along with the exp/sp values in order to make the lvl cap slightly less obtainable.

A large reason for this occurrence I think comes from the "Westernization" brought into the game play. They give examples of the play in ones originating from the same areas ex: BoI having mobs that don't aggro or do considerably less damage.

Imagine for a moment fighting mobs ex: lvl 98 gooths, that do 400ish per hit on LA doing roughly 130 a hit and even less on a HA class. Couple this with +hp gear and it becomes a joke. The prime issue here being that while the damage and aggro ranges have been increased, the drop rate has not been set to follow such changes.

Long and short of it is, you're killing tougher mobs than those playing the Malaysian version, but not seeing a correlative change in drops to adequately reflect the adjustments made in difficulty.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

I see people saying that increasing drops even a little will do horrible things to the economy. I think someone even said that if anything coin drops should be reduced. Is no one thinking about the hundreds of millions of coins being dumped into the economy every week through TW?

Maybe they should, dare i say it, lower TW pay instead of the drops.

compensate them some other way. say bound, faster mounts and aerogear only available through holding TW land. let the director of each land (or whatever the npc i called) provide free but again bound attack and defense blessing and/or charms. TW only fashion but also bound that you have as long as you have land. when you lose the land the fashion disappears. How much money is pumped into the economy on a weekly basis from tw 400mil? I'm not complaining that on most of the servers the majority goes to one faction but that is a ton of money that causes inflation.

Let the flames begin

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I see people saying that increasing drops even a little will do horrible things to the economy. I think someone even said that if anything coin drops should be reduced. Is no one thinking about the hundreds of millions of coins being dumped into the economy every week through TW?

Maybe they should, dare i say it, lower TW pay instead of the drops.

compensate them some other way. say bound, faster mounts and aerogear only available through holding TW land. let the director of each land (or whatever the npc i called) provide free but again bound attack and defense blessing and/or charms. TW only fashion but also bound that you have as long as you have land. when you lose the land the fashion disappears. How much money is pumped into the economy on a weekly basis from tw 400mil? I'm not complaining that on most of the servers the majority goes to one faction but that is a ton of money that causes inflation.

Let the flames begin

Less than the amount of coins introduced into the server through best luck tokens.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Less than the amount of coins introduced into the server through best luck tokens.

very very true those too. wouldnt have been nearly as bad if the 10mil wasnt an option.

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

whoa, when did i write this..? since when do i use proper grammar? warning, alcohol does adverse things to you, children.