Fist > Anything else

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Aradorn - Harshlands wrote: »

First of all if you think sage (for you heaven) worse then demon i think you wrong.

besides if any BM in endgame get fisure and heaven's flame sage, its make alot more damage mostly in 1vs1 against ha, but it sure does alot too in group PVP.

Almost all of the people that I've known to go sage were talked into it mainly for the Aura by people who weren't BMs... which isn't really all that much better. The difference between lvl 11 sage and demon buff doesn't make a whole lot of difference to heavies, it's more wanted by LA and AA users.

Masteries give you 15% more damage, however that 15% is very misleading... it's only 2-4% more calculated damage, and as an axe user that can easily be compensated for by a higher grade garnet or an extra + on our weapon, whereas the extra 1% crit, which is relatively meaningless is harder to come by after stacking all your crit bonuses, so it's really a toss up.

So that leaves you with a handful of other skills, some of which are better with sage, some of which are better than demon. When I think of a BM I think of Dragons and Stuns. That is basically what the BM's primary purpose is. Draogons = 9 seconds of amp. Roar never misses. Drake Bash 7.5 seconds. Hell spark 25% speed increase. I think the usefulness of these skills in both PvP and PvE to be superior and that's why I picked demon. H

As for PvP, it's more about skill than cultivation, because seriously, anyone who sees HF being cast is going to get out of the way fast. In 1v1, sure the extra fire damage would be a nice bonus against heavies, but overall 3 more seconds of amp damage will be far more beneficial. For PvE, demon clearly wins with higher dps and a more beneficial HF.

Far more BMs regret going sage than demon though, but if the demon spark gets nerfed, it won't make as much of a difference.

Devoted - Lost City

Taeknight - Lost City wrote: »

LOL didnt read 2nd page, this was actually a troll post because i was bored, not because i found out fist were the best

And bleh, devoted u shouldnt talk in class forums, kuz well, your the most fail archer ive ever fought KTHXBAI

Cept you haven't fought me. Last time I ever pvped on this account you were still 8x. I'm not bad for having the exact same gear (minus +3 g7 cv bow) since january 2009

weren't you a blade warrior? you did have a +5 hh blade or sth and like a +2 xs. priorities man.


why shouldn't I be posting in class forums should I post on my wr account or sth?

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Almost all of the people that I've known to go sage were talked into it mainly for the Aura by people who weren't BMs... which isn't really all that much better. The difference between lvl 11 sage and demon buff doesn't make a whole lot of difference to heavies, it's more wanted by LA and AA users.

Masteries give you 15% more damage, however that 15% is very misleading... it's only 2-4% more calculated damage, and as an axe user that can easily be compensated for by a higher grade garnet or an extra + on our weapon, whereas the extra 1% crit, which is relatively meaningless is harder to come by after stacking all your crit bonuses, so it's really a toss up.

So that leaves you with a handful of other skills, some of which are better with sage, some of which are better than demon. When I think of a BM I think of Dragons and Stuns. That is basically what the BM's primary purpose is. Draogons = 9 seconds of amp. Roar never misses. Drake Bash 7.5 seconds. Hell spark 25% speed increase. I think the usefulness of these skills in both PvP and PvE to be superior and that's why I picked demon. H

As for PvP, it's more about skill than cultivation, because seriously, anyone who sees HF being cast is going to get out of the way fast. In 1v1, sure the extra fire damage would be a nice bonus against heavies, but overall 3 more seconds of amp damage will be far more beneficial. For PvE, demon clearly wins with higher dps and a more beneficial HF.

Far more BMs regret going sage than demon though, but if the demon spark gets nerfed, it won't make as much of a difference.

there are a couple more reasons as to why demon is blatantly obvious, some are well known but a few aren't really common knowledge

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

there are a couple more reasons as to why demon is blatantly obvious, some are well known but a few aren't really common knowledge

Couple other skills that sage has better, but I realized I had written more than I intended and stopped. lol

Aradorn - Harshlands

as bm's use as stuns + dragons all the way you right about this.
my choose with sage was more about the chi save.
its hard for bm that stuns all day long in TW to get fast chi.
besides the skill you get in 89 that gives you 50 chi, i save more chi on roar and sometimes in
drake bash too.
sure the sage always wanted by buffs, but as you said it doesnt make much diffrence between the sage and demon buff.
the diffrence is not that big between the two, each one picks the one suited is play style more. or pick the thing that kinda complete the lacks he find in is class.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Aradorn - Harshlands wrote: »

as bm's use as stuns + dragons all the way you right about this.
my choose with sage was more about the chi save.
its hard for bm that stuns all day long in TW to get fast chi.
besides the skill you get in 89 that gives you 50 chi, i save more chi on roar and sometimes in
drake bash too.
sure the sage always wanted by buffs, but as you said it doesnt make much diffrence between the sage and demon buff.
the diffrence is not that big between the two, each one picks the one suited is play style more. or pick the thing that kinda complete the lacks he find in is class.

because 50 chi a minute is worth anythign at all

you didnt read the demon skill list verry well did you?

Kristoph - Lost City

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

because 50 chi a minute is worth anythign at all

you didnt read the demon skill list verry well did you?

Yes, 50 chi per min you can get for free without engaging anything is worth a lot. Especially if your Roar only costs 25 chi etc.


I'd take demon over sage anyday as a BM, but don't even bother trying to deny how incredibly useful the chi skill is.

Aradorn - Harshlands

the 50 chi was just one exemple.
sure alot take demon over sage, to each is own.
i still went sage cause for me it complete alot of things in my play style.
but if you want to say that the 50 chi skill dont worth, you dont know **** or you never went in TW or group pvp.

CruiseWolf - Heavens Tear

Here is a nice video i found on youtube, if it allows me to post.

Awesome Vid on youtube click here

Only posting this coz i cant find a sage bm clip,i am too lazy.

Also i know this is on another server and yes things change, so plz no QQ just watch the last part of the clip after the quick TT run. So then u will see what a fisty can do using axe and pole paths with fist.

Aradorn - Harshlands

tbh there is more demon bm's then sage, and its clear why.
but everybody choose what fits to is play style and the things he find lacks in is class.
sure the stuns are awesome and the dg is even better, but what i need that lacks in my opinion in this class work better in sage.
about the video, i saw it before and its cool..
one thing i dont understand is why somebody put the charm bar on they hp..

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

Yeah that bothers me a lot. Can't see your Hp and just blindly hope that you tick in time...

CruiseWolf - Heavens Tear

2 reasons why im going demon on my bm is :

I dont pay to play the game, never have, prolly never will, so any speed gain is nice. Sure some say chi is more important (50chi sage skill, really dont see the point because they say you can spark more having that skill), not really on fist bm, usually gain it fast and with 3spark you gain more chi while effect is on than sage spark(no speed gain and using chi skill), coz hit faster = more chi gain

2ndly at 99 if i ever get there and get the skill drakes breath bash and cyclone heel, ill be happy, Drakes only coz the 135% fire weapon gain for 15sec, Specially since you can cast it and switch to other weapon (axes in my case) b4 its cast is release so you still keep the 2sparks and gain the fire attb for 15sec( still uses mana tho), then do HF and back to fists and nice damage thereb:bye.

I enjoy the damage with dragon bane(25% more crit gain lol puts me on 40%b:dirty not a real big damage loss like the description says on ecatomb, besides drakes breath bash will give damage back and buddah's fists also gain for me) then drakes breath bash (with canceling effectb:bye) then HF and hit normal with fists.
Will be really fun if i can get demon HF also one day, 9sec effect for debuff is sweet.

Thinking now i wonder if the fire damage effect still works on axes when i swap, will test tonight. would be nice for when i aoe grind but prolly get hit more then i need to might throw in a aoe stun before i do it.

Im only lvl82 on my Bm just wondering, i have -0.05 interval wrists and i can get up to 2hit/sec with my genie(Relentless Courage and got str genie lvl 80) after i did cyclone heel.
Does that genie skill increase speed when demon spark is cast? or does it stay the same. Knowing many got more -interval than i do, would be easier to see gain or not.

Also is there more speed gain using demon spark and then cyclone heel or is it just a waste of timeb:surrender?

Telarith - Sanctuary

CruiseWolf - Heavens Tear wrote: »

2 reasons why im going demon on my bm is :

I dont pay to play the game, never have, prolly never will, so any speed gain is nice. Sure some say chi is more important (50chi sage skill, really dont see the point because they say you can spark more having that skill), not really on fist bm, usually gain it fast and with 3spark you gain more chi while effect is on than sage spark(no speed gain and using chi skill), coz hit faster = more chi gain

2ndly at 99 if i ever get there and get the skill drakes breath bash and cyclone heel, ill be happy, Drakes only coz the 135% fire weapon gain for 15sec, Specially since you can cast it and switch to other weapon (axes in my case) b4 its cast is release so you still keep the 2sparks and gain the fire attb for 15sec( still uses mana tho), then do HF and back to fists and nice damage thereb:bye.

I enjoy the damage with dragon bane(25% more crit gain lol puts me on 40%b:dirty not a real big damage loss like the description says on ecatomb, besides drakes breath bash will give damage back and buddah's fists also gain for me) then drakes breath bash (with canceling effectb:bye) then HF and hit normal with fists.
Will be really fun if i can get demon HF also one day, 9sec effect for debuff is sweet.

Thinking now i wonder if the fire damage effect still works on axes when i swap, will test tonight. would be nice for when i aoe grind but prolly get hit more then i need to might throw in a aoe stun before i do it.

Im only lvl82 on my Bm just wondering, i have -0.05 interval wrists and i can get up to 2hit/sec with my genie(Relentless Courage and got str genie lvl 80) after i did cyclone heel.
Does that genie skill increase speed when demon spark is cast? or does it stay the same. Knowing many got more -interval than i do, would be easier to see gain or not.

Also is there more speed gain using demon spark and then cyclone heel or is it just a waste of timeb:surrender?

Each attack speed buff over-writes the previous one, they don't stack. So don't use wind shield after demon spark.

CruiseWolf - Heavens Tear

K thanks for info

Aradorn - Harshlands

the thing is that i find dragon bane helpful mostly in PVE, i dont find myself using dragon bane in PVP and canceling it with the triple spark. but if you say drake breath make it the same so tbh i have no idea.
never got this far into fist but will go soon, and has you said good interval is hard to get if you dont CS. but its still posible with some hard work in the game.
anyways have fun and good luck with your BM

Kristoph - Lost City

Aradorn - Harshlands wrote: »

the thing is that i find dragon bane helpful mostly in PVE, i dont find myself using dragon bane in PVP and canceling it with the triple spark. but if you say drake breath make it the same so tbh i have no idea.
never got this far into fist but will go soon, and has you said good interval is hard to get if you dont CS. but its still posible with some hard work in the game.
anyways have fun and good luck with your BM

I haven't cash shopped anything this year since I started my BM, yet I have -0.15, will be -0.20 at 90 and I doubt I'll have any problem making enough money for -0.25 at 95 if I resell the frost fists. It's easily possible.

Taeknight - Lost City

weren't you a blade warrior? you did have a +5 hh blade or sth and like a +2 xs. priorities man.


Ok, i got the hh80 blades as a pk drop, and my xs was +4, i still have it xD

And LOL, +5 is a mirage refine, i can get +6 with just mirages b:shutup