I need some help regarding Fox Form for Venomancers

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

I would appreciate it if I get opinions and some facts from you guys on why is it good or not important to have Fox Form? I want to now before I get to a high level and realize I should've got it earlier. I saw a post on the 'what you don't want to hear a high level saying' and someone said 'I don't have Fox Form' which kinda scared.

Thanks for reading and answering. I really appreciate it. :]

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

You might want to read this first.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=198681

GasLeak - Dreamweaver

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I would appreciate it if I get opinions and some facts from you guys on why is it good or not important to have Fox Form? I want to now before I get to a high level and realize I should've got it earlier. I saw a post on the 'what you don't want to hear a high level saying' and someone said 'I don't have Fox Form' which kinda scared.

Thanks for reading and answering. I really appreciate it. :]

You get a lot of extra pdef in fox.
You get Amplify Damage for increasing your / everyone else's damage output.
You get Purge for removing buffs on target.
Stunning blow for freezeing running mobs.
Leech for some HP gain if necessary.
At level 79 you get a massive aoe debuff with a chance to cause 0 pdef and/or 0 mdef.

You wont need fox form (or rarely) when you go pew pew some random mobs for quest, but you DO need it for FB, TT, PK, FC, Rebirth, TW, Duels, Lunar...basically everything that doesnt involve pew pew'ing random mobs.

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

You might want to read this first.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=198681

In that thread, she said: "Here's the trick with fox form:
When you transform into a fox, all your attacks are now melee, or physcial.
What determines your damage in fox form is your weapon's physical attack
and your own STR stat, or physical attack. BUT! You can't use melee weapons
in fox form unlike barbarians because the skill description reads that you must
either be bare handed or use a magic weapon. And, to top it off, all your
equipment is locked in fox form so you can't change to a melee weapon
either after transforming."
My strength is not that high because I put most of my points towards Mag, Dex, and Vit...

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

GasLeak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You get a lot of extra pdef in fox.
You get Amplify Damage for increasing your / everyone else's damage output.
You get Purge for removing buffs on target.
Stunning blow for freezeing running mobs.
Leech for some HP gain if necessary.
At level 79 you get a massive aoe debuff with a chance to cause 0 pdef and/or 0 mdef.

You wont need fox form (or rarely) when you go pew pew some random mobs for quest, but you DO need it for FB, TT, PK, FC, Rebirth, TW, Duels, Lunar...basically everything that doesnt involve pew pew'ing random mobs.

Thanks! That helped me greatly! I really didn't know it was good against bosses but I'll get it. xD

Michael_Dark - Lost City

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Thanks! That helped me greatly! I really didn't know it was good against bosses but I'll get it. xD

You really won't find yourself needing fox form skills early on. The higher you get, the more useful and necessary fox form skills become.

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

You really won't find yourself needing fox form skills early on. The higher you get, the more useful and necessary fox form skills become.

Should I get it now or just wait till I'm level 70-90+?

Nudefoxy - Lost City

imao fox form is cheap to get question is are u arcane or heavy, cause if u arcane then u dont need it but if u are heavy then yeah get it

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Nudefoxy - Lost City wrote: »

imao fox form is cheap to get question is are u arcane or heavy, cause if u arcane then u dont need it but if u are heavy then yeah get it

Completely and utterly wrong im afraid. Fox form has some awesome skills needed for TT or FF such as purge and amplify damage, regardless what armour you get the skills are still extremely beneficial.

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Completely and utterly wrong im afraid. Fox form has some awesome skills needed for TT or FF such as purge and amplify damage, regardless what armour you get the skills are still extremely beneficial.

Yes, because I heard that purge is really effective and good against bosses in FBs and TTs.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yes, because I heard that purge is really effective and good against bosses in FBs and TTs.

Only those that buff themselves like the ape in TT2-1, TT2-2, TT2-3. Amplify Damage can be used against every single boss and increases damage done, its about as good as you could wish for, more damage = faster kill = less mana usage = win.

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Only those that buff themselves like the ape in TT2-1, TT2-2, TT2-3. Amplify Damage can be used against every single boss and increases damage done, its about as good as you could wish for, more damage = faster kill = less mana usage = win.

So do I need to get all the skills with Fox Form or just Amplify and Purge?

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

Just focus on the skills:
- fox form: for physical defense. This is always useful. When you're running away, you want more physical def. When you're healing you pet, while taking AOE damage, go into fox form to take less damage.

-amplify damage: common sense really. More damage = awesome.

There really is no point of purge if you're going PvE until about level 70. Level 1 of purge will suffice.

Barrossa - Harshlands

Always keep fox form updated (no matter what build) and use it for bosses. For normal grinding human form is generally better.

The main skills that you should always keep up-to-date:
1. Amplify Damage: use on any boss, unless he has AOE that will kill you (Farren, Rankar, Wyvern....)
2. Purge: very important for bosses that self-buff. An example is the Quillhog King (culti-boss) who brambles himself. Especially if a pet is tanking that can be disastrous.

Get one lvl from the rest of the skills, test them and decide what you like and seems useful to you.

When fighting bosses a veno should change to fox and back if possible so you can use fox debuffs and Ironwood Scarab at least.

Nudefoxy - Lost City

true fox form is good but only if u got the money to spend for fox spells

Barrossa - Harshlands

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So do I need to get all the skills with Fox Form or just Amplify and Purge?

You can't learn the next skill in a skill tree if you don't have at least 1 lvl from the skill above it. That doesn't mean that you need to lvl all of them to 10.

In my personal opinion, it's good to get the skills in the tree after Amplify Damage and Purge too because it's better to actually have tested what each skills does and not having to rely only on other people's advice.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So do I need to get all the skills with Fox Form or just Amplify and Purge?

Read Barrossa's post, she explained it well.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just focus on the skills:
- fox form: for physical defense. This is always useful. When you're running away, you want more physical def. When you're healing you pet, while taking AOE damage, go into fox form to take less damage.

-amplify damage: common sense really. More damage = awesome.

There really is no point of purge if you're going PvE until about level 70. Level 1 of purge will suffice.

You need more than level 1 purge for ape man of the cooldown is far to long.

Nudefoxy - Lost City wrote: »

true fox form is good but only if u got the money to spend for fox spells

Wrong again, you dont need to be true fox form to use the skills, 90% of veno's i know only use fox form for certain things and skill benefits.

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

Barrossa - Harshlands wrote: »

Always keep fox form updated (no matter what build) and use it for bosses. For normal grinding human form is generally better.

The main skills that you should always keep up-to-date:
1. Amplify Damage: use on any boss, unless he has AOE that will kill you (Farren, Rankar, Wyvern....)
2. Purge: very important for bosses that self-buff. An example is the Quillhog King (culti-boss) who brambles himself. Especially if a pet is tanking that can be disastrous.

Get one lvl from the rest of the skills, test them and decide what you like and seems useful to you.

When fighting bosses a veno should change to fox and back if possible so you can use fox debuffs and Ironwood Scarab at least.

Thank you for this info ^^

Michael_Dark - Lost City

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Should I get it now or just wait till I'm level 70-90+?

Don't wait past 7x to start... but you're probably getting to the point to where you should start leveling amp and purge. Level the skills that you use most frequently. Amp should be leveled as you can... purge is great for PvP, and probably not very useful earlier, but later it's a godsend... perhaps a veno can give you a bit more insight.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You need more than level 1 purge for ape man of the cooldown is far to long.

Wouldnt be doing ape at 6x, would you?

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wouldnt be doing ape at 6x, would you?

She is asking in advance what to get, if you want to give her a level by level guide go ahead, but im saying things for her to work towards and point her in the right direction.

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

She is asking in advance what to get, if you want to give her a level by level guide go ahead, but im saying things for her to work towards and point her in the right direction.

And did I not say, that will suffice until level 70?

Heck, you might as well say max all skills, since that is the right direction eventually.

Phenoix - Heavens Tear

fox form is a defense increaser for venos . which in turn helps u survive pulling bosses mobs and other nasties also good against aoe attack.. better defense better chance of liveing .. the skills amplify and purge are a must on some bosses .. i suggest u get those skills and try to keep them updated as much as u can...the other skills on fox form aren't used much plus most veno change back and forth from fox to human to maximize damage output but is mainly for bosses .. plus also if pet dies u can alwas fox form and run away with less chance of death...........

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

And did I not say, that will suffice until level 70?

Heck, you might as well say max all skills, since that is the right direction eventually.

You dont need to max all skills so no it wouldnt, most veno's use foxform for amplify damage and purge so they should be leveled as much as you can once you start doing instances with your friends, faction or even BH so you get a feel how to use them and when.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You dont need to max all skills so no it wouldnt, most veno's use foxform for amplify damage and purge so they should be leveled as much as you can once you start doing instances with your friends, faction or even BH so you get a feel how to use them and when.

Amplify should always be leveled when it's available... purge is a great skill but not really needed often till later in the game...

Sage Soul Degeneration = b:dirty

There are a bunch of other foxform skills, but I don't see them being all that useful, granted I haven't leveled my veno all that high. I'd say your 79 skills are more important than the rest of the foxform skills, but that may just be my ignorance speaking.

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

Thanks so far for all these pieces of information guys. ^^ So what I'll get is fox form with the two important skills and then I'll see the rest because updating skills cost so much spirit now >.<

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Thanks so far for all these pieces of information guys. ^^ So what I'll get is fox form with the two important skills and then I'll see the rest because updating skills cost so much spirit now >.<

Concentrate on your human forms you use more and then slowly upgrade the fox form skills you can, by the 70's you will be drowning in spirit b:chuckle.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Why hasn't this been moved to the veno forum yet?

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So do I need to get all the skills with Fox Form or just Amplify and Purge?

Fox form - If you play as a caster and don't get hit often, you can leave it at level 1. Leveling it increases the defense and accuracy bonus, and decreases the amount of mp lost if you're full. No big deal really.

Purge - You want this to at least level 8 by the time you start doing TT 2-2. Before then, you basically only need to purge once that I can think of (Quillhog King) so you can leave it at level 1. TT 2-1 Cosmo does not self-buff. TT 2-2 and 2-3 Cosmo buff every 25 sec if I remember right. Unfortunately the shortest you can get the cooldown on Purge without going Demon is 30 sec. So to keep him purged you need to take turns purging with another veno. Level 8 has a 50 sec cooldown, so will let you do this. PvPers will want it max level.

Melee Mastery - Only needed if you fight in fox form.

Curses

Amplify Damage - Max this ASAP. This is your meal ticket into TTs and FBs. If you don't have it/don't use it, people are less likely to group with you in the future. A level 10 Amp applied as often as possible in a 6-person group is like adding a 7th person's worth of damage. Well worth the few sec it takes to apply every 30 sec.

Soul Degeneration - Meh. Stops hp and mp regen. Not really needed unless you get Sage Soul Degen (which is one of the best skills venos get period). Some people claim it's useful for bosses which regenerate, but you can only have one curse on a boss at a time. It'd have to be some crazy regen to be more beneficial than Amp. Some fox venos use it as a stopgap to span the time when Amp is off. Can be skipped IMHO.

Crush Vigor - PvP curse skill. Reduces chi. Since mobs have no chi, it's useless in PvE, though the Demon version has a chance to give you a spark. Can be skipped IMHO.

Attack Skills

Fox Wallop - One of the best DPS fox skills if you're arcane or light. Above ~2700 p.atk, your regular attacks start doing more DPS, so not a good choice for most heavy foxes. Need at least level 1 to get access to the other fox skills.

Befuddling Mist - Also a good DPS skill, slightly better than Wallop. For arcane and light builds to maximize DPS in fox form, you need to spam Wallop and Mist. Be careful, it is a small radius AOE. Also decreases the accuracy of the target, so you should not use it on bosses if the tank (with Bramble) is having trouble keeping aggro (except for herc - its pdef buff reduces its evasion to zero so it will always be hit).

Stunning Blow - Highest DPS fox form skill, but costs a spark. If you factor in the spark cost, it's a poor skill. However, it freezes the opponent, which is very handy for runners or if someone pulls aggro off the tank. Around the level you first get it, it does enough damage that it can be used to interrupt spellcasting. Get at least level 1, level up if you want a longer freeze duration.

Leech - Fair damage, has a 80% chance to heal you. Spamming it will allow you to survive certain AOE mobs without need potions or cleric heals, so get at least level 1. It does good damage when maxed, so arcane and light can spam it in between the above two skills. But I'm not sure the mana cost is worth it.

Consume Spirit - Gain back some MP for a loss of HP. Best used in combo with Leech. However, it does piddly DPS (same damage as a regular attack, but takes nearly 2.4x as long). I found it more efficient to Soul Transfuse and Leech back the lost hp. You can level it to 1 to try it out, but it can be safely ignored.

Malefic Crush - Pathetic skill. High damage but the long channel + cast time makes it the second-weakest DPS skill (only Consume Spirit is worse). The 2-spark cost makes it even more worthless. You are better off using the chi in an advanced spark eruption and using other attacks. The mana burn may be useful in PvP. Its only saving grace is it's AOE. But for the time needed and two sparks, there would have to be about 15 mobs in its AOE range for it to be better than adv. spark eruption. Safe to ignore.

Special

Myriad Rainbow - One of the three level 79 veno skills you can make with Apocalypse pages. Has a chance to do none, any, or all of the following 4 effects: reduce pdef to zero, reduce mdef to zero, 9 sec poison DoT, 9 sec bleed DoT. This one is arguably the best since it's AOE so has a chance of landing the debuffs and DoTs on everything without range. Otherwise, it's the same as the caster version with a shorter range.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

I'll repeat what's already been said so it becomes very clear:

- Fox form is a necessary must, regardless of your build.
- Max Amplify Damage. You will be using it against any boss you can imagine to make it go faster, squad or solo, and if you don't have it you're going to find a lot of squads will replace you for a venomancer who does.
- Max Purge only when you're considering TTs 2-1 and above. A level one purge won't suffice for 2-1 ape, by the way, because the cooldown is far too long. Technically, purge doesn't need to be maxed, so you can focus on other skills too, but put simply the higher level purge, the better.
- Fox Form Myriad Rainbow. It's a 79 skill for venomancers and if you don't get it you need to be slapped upside the head. Seriously, get the fox form Myriad first, because it's an AoE debuff.
This makes it incredibly useful in RB because that 0% physical defence and/or magical defence will really help pummel mobs into the ground that bit faster. (Although sadly it can be hard for venomancers to get into an RB squad, but fox form Myriad remains the most useful of either of the 79 Myriad skills. )

- If you're going sage, you'll want to consider grabbing Soul Degeneration and maxing it. It's much like the archer's STA - except it decreases max HP by 20% instead of the 16% a level ten (or Demon) STA induces.

Toxic - Dreamweaver

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'll repeat what's already been said so it becomes very clear:

- Fox form is a necessary must, regardless of your build.
- Max Amplify Damage. You will be using it against any boss you can imagine to make it go faster, squad or solo, and if you don't have it you're going to find a lot of squads will replace you for a venomancer who does.
- Max Purge only when you're considering TTs 2-1 and above. A level one purge won't suffice for 2-1 ape, by the way, because the cooldown is far too long. Technically, purge doesn't need to be maxed, so you can focus on other skills too, but put simply the higher level purge, the better.
- Fox Form Myriad Rainbow. It's a 79 skill for venomancers and if you don't get it you need to be slapped upside the head. Seriously, get the fox form Myriad first, because it's an AoE debuff.
This makes it incredibly useful in RB because that 0% physical defence and/or magical defence will really help pummel mobs into the ground that bit faster. (Although sadly it can be hard for venomancers to get into an RB squad, but fox form Myriad remains the most useful of either of the 79 Myriad skills. )

- If you're going sage, you'll want to consider grabbing Soul Degeneration and maxing it. It's much like the archer's STA - except it decreases max HP by 20% instead of the 16% a level ten (or Demon) STA induces.

A lvl 1 purge WILL suffice for ape in 2-1 because...he doesn't self buff in that one. But for sure max it for 2-2. And everything else that's been said.

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'll repeat what's already been said so it becomes very clear:

- Fox form is a necessary must, regardless of your build.
- Max Amplify Damage. You will be using it against any boss you can imagine to make it go faster, squad or solo, and if you don't have it you're going to find a lot of squads will replace you for a venomancer who does.
- Max Purge only when you're considering TTs 2-1 and above. A level one purge won't suffice for 2-1 ape, by the way, because the cooldown is far too long. Technically, purge doesn't need to be maxed, so you can focus on other skills too, but put simply the higher level purge, the better.
- Fox Form Myriad Rainbow. It's a 79 skill for venomancers and if you don't get it you need to be slapped upside the head. Seriously, get the fox form Myriad first, because it's an AoE debuff.
This makes it incredibly useful in RB because that 0% physical defence and/or magical defence will really help pummel mobs into the ground that bit faster. (Although sadly it can be hard for venomancers to get into an RB squad, but fox form Myriad remains the most useful of either of the 79 Myriad skills. )
- If you're going sage, you'll want to consider grabbing Soul Degeneration and maxing it. It's much like the archer's STA - except it decreases max HP by 20% instead of the 16% a level ten (or Demon) STA induces.

What's the difference between Sage and Demon? I have heard someone ask a Cleric before but I didn't know it applies for other classes too.