Assassin Second Impressions

SoulWispher - Sanctuary

Hello there
I was here some weeks ago talking about my first impressions about the Assassin
(http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=7376032)
I was level 29 back then and I had many problems dealing with mobs in general(Tons of Hp Pots).

When I got Bloodpaint the Hp Pots usage went down a bit,still need 1 every 2 mobs or so.
At lv.50 my attack starts to become decent and the Hp Pots usage went down to 1 Pot every 3 or 4 Mobs.Thanks to the Rising Dragon Strike + Spark i was finally able to kill mobs reasonably fast(The longer I take,more the damage I receive).

At lv.59 things starts to go better with the Inner Harmony/Rising Dragon Strike/Tackling Slash I can cast a 2x Spark almost at every mob,recovering 20% of my Hp and dealing finally good damage,the Pots usage now is low,aganist Physical mobs at least.

But now,I start to wonder,what excactly I should be good at?

Damage Dealer?
Nope,axe BM of same level deals equal or more damage than me,not to talk about endgame Fist BMs(>.< )

Tank?
You kidding,I had to shard all my equip with Average Garnets to have a decent Defence but needless to say,aganist magic mobs I get heavy damage,and the bloodpaint + Sparks isn't enough.

Uhm,then what?
That's the question,then what?,let's compare a bit Sin Vs BM.

I have trouble taking more than 2 mobs Physical at time,I got the Armor of Barbarian Shaman(Lv.43 Legendary LA),with 4 Sockets all Average Garnets,all rest of my equip is 3-Stars Type with all the Magic Res + Protection Necklace + Protection Belt.Most of my equip have + Physical Defcence Bonus and some have + Dex bonus while my weapon is the Cloud Thorn(Lv.56 Legendary Dagger),with 2 Flawless Garnets refined +2...and I can barely take 2 mobs.A BM of my level with crappy equip(Compared to mine at least),said he can take like 8-10 Physical Mobs at time...you should be kidding.
Also aganist Magic Mobs BM can use Alter Magic Defence(Or whatever is called),which lowers their Defence but increase their Mag Def making em(Not sure of this),better Magic Tanks than LA users,not to mention their Self-Buff Golden Bell(Or whatever is called),which adds 60% more Phsyical Defence(Not sure).

And the thing that sounds really really really bad,is that they can get buffed with Bloodpaint.

They got a lot of stuns,while the only decent debuff I have is the Rib Strike which is good indeed but not sure how much it is,the Puncture Wound(Or whatever is called),was good at lower levels but now its almost useless,the Sleep attack may be good in some situations but you can't touch your target(Stun is way better than Sleep).Bleed + Sleep deal lame damage aganist BMs/Barbs.
The only Stuns we have only Stuns for 3 secs(At level 1 at least),and even cost a spark,3 seconds in this game are like 1,5 Seconds in real,which means almost useless.
Also the so-called Focus Mind have a quite low Evasion and cannot but keep up all the time.

Its cool to be an Assassin because of stealth,instant teleport,2 speedup Skills,but that's not useful in the end.

So really,what Im supposed to be good at?

Somebody - Raging Tide

we got 2 stuns, yes the instant teleport = 3 seconds but the other one maxed is 5 seconds
the teleport stun is great cause we can get to the ranged DD's instantly and stun them at the same time. thus keeping us safe.
bloodpaint endgame works a lot better cause you get more dmg (and later even -interval gear)
rib strike = 50% reduced attack speed. thats awesome on any boss, mobs even and it deals good dmg.
fighting against 2 (or more) mobs, use your sleep/seal/stun wisely. sleep one, and smack the other for 6 seconds (maxed sleep) while only having to deal with 1 mob.
use wolf emblem to do even more damage with ur crits you already have so much!
power dash + wolf emblem = AWESOME. i get 50%+ crit rate with 230% dmg on every crit

and currently at level 91 with almost full TT90 i'm tanking TT 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, 2-1, 3-1 without much problem with 1 cleric (89 cleric at that moment) i got 5.1k hp with all gear on +refines/shards
i kill any class except for BM/Barb really fast. didn't have much problem with HA veno even xD

so ya... lower levels are hard, but end game we get a lot stronger

ACLucius - Archosaur

This is what the Assassin is. (Just to clarify, it was directed toward a Venomancer who was asking about Assassins and how she should work with them in a squad. Should you need any clarification on anything in there, feel free to ask)

ACLucius - Archosaur wrote: »

Expect Assassins to do their debuff(s), provide auxiliary tanking if the Barb/Blademaster dies and there is no other Barb/Blademaster to replace them, and provide good damage. Should the Cleric die, it is the job of the Assassin to try to gain aggro of the boss and lure it as far away from the squad as possible. We might die, but part of our job is to try to save to squad when possible, and if we can, Shadow Escape once the boss is out of range of the squad and will reset. So once you see that Cleric's HP hit zero, unless you are POSITIVE that your pet can tank fine with just your heals, stop attacking and let the Assassin gain aggro. While doing that, run in whatever direction you can to get far from where the Assassin will probably lead the boss, just to make it easier on them and help keep them from dying.

If you are on a boss without a strong AoE and the Assassin (as many do) has Tangling Mire, try to time your increased damage skills with theirs. As an example, whenever I use Tangling Mire, I also use Subsea strike and then get back my 2 sparks for a double spark so I can do extremely high damage (usually 8k criticals with normal attack). If you amplify damage at the same time as that, the boss will take an extremely large amount of damage over a short period of time. Using these skills combined with a Venomancer's amp skill, I have seen Rankar die within 45 seconds (had no magic DD's besides Venomancer) due to the extreme DPS each person could apply.

Expect Assassins to save the squishy classes whenever possible. Usually we can always teleport to the mob, so it shouldn't be a problem reaching them. So if you draw aggro and an Assassin heads straight towards the mob, run towards the Assassin and don't attack the mob after that unless you know exactly what skill they used. Sometimes I use Tackling Slash causing them to freeze, sometimes I use Deep Sting to sleep them. If you attack them while they are asleep, you cancel it and it just wasted our efforts.

If an Assassin is fighting two+ mobs all at once, and the rest of the squad is busy with their own, DON'T HELP! We have our Deep Sting, two stun skills, and Tackling Slash. An experienced Assassin will sleep one, freeze the other, move out of range and kill one of them. If they can't do that, they will Shadow Escape and reset the mobs. Attacking when they plan to SE will only draw aggro to you.

If you have the Assassin saying they will go kill a guardian in a BH, let them. Any build of Assassin should be able to easily take on any mob in a BH without problem. Our Blood Paint, spark/double spark, and Second Wind will keep us alive. If it doesn't, it is a failure of our own.

Basically, if you can't afford to help or don't think you can, then don't help the Assassin. We have more than enough ways to deal with multiple mobs in multiple situations, so don't worry about us too much unless you can do so safely. If the Assassin dies in such a situation, then it is their own fault. However, if you are having an Assassin do the job of a tank, treat it just as it is, a non tanking class tanking. We will need any help you can provide when doing the job of a tank. This means debuffs, heals, support, shared aggro (especially with your pet). I don't tank because I am good for tanking, I do it because it is necessary at the given time.

I am not going to say that every single Assassin out there will know all of these, but this is how our class works. You should always check to see if they are able to do these things before you start the instance so you know what to expect and how to work with it.

By the way, yes, you are a DD, a better one in 1v1 than a Blademaster. If you spam your double spark, you will do extremely high DPS, and will steal aggro very easily from the Blademaster your level who tanks and uses Stream Strike.

Kuroi_Sin - Dreamweaver

SoulWispher - Sanctuary wrote: »

Damage Dealer?
Nope,axe BM of same level deals equal or more damage than me,not to talk about endgame Fist BMs(>.< )

Here is your first problem. You are comparing us to BMs. And also even if a BM does, say 2,000 per hit, he hits that .83 times per second. You hit that 1.25 times per second. And when it comes to endgame Fist BMs... Nothing but a 5 APS endgame Assassin can beat that DPS. Besides you are, I assume, around 6x. Why compare yourself to a 9x-1xx player?

And I must respectfully disagree with ACLucius. We are squishies. We can tank somethings, but the way you word it, it sounds as if you expect us to be as effective as HA BMs. An LA Melee Damage Dealer isn't made for tanking. Even though Archers can tank with LA, that is because their ranged attacks force the boss to attack in pure magic. And since LA has a decent magic defense, they take less damage than if they were in LA getting hit with melee and magic (like an Assassin). And please don't tell me that I "just don't know my class." I have taken a lot of time that I could have spent getting an uber high level to practice and learn. And don't forget that there isn't just ONE way to play a class. HA venos are a prime example of this. And the Fist BMs used to be called fail until they ended up killing everyone. There may just be a misunderstanding from word usage, and I mean no offense by this post.

<.< I can get very opinionated and arguementative...

ACLucius - Archosaur

Kuroi_Sin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Here is your first problem. You are comparing us to BMs. And also even if a BM does, say 2,000 per hit, he hits that .83 times per second. You hit that 1.25 times per second. And when it comes to endgame Fist BMs... Nothing but a 5 APS endgame Assassin can beat that DPS. Besides you are, I assume, around 6x. Why compare yourself to a 9x-1xx player?

And I must respectfully disagree with ACLucius. We are squishies. We can tank somethings, but the way you word it, it sounds as if you expect us to be as effective as HA BMs. An LA Melee Damage Dealer isn't made for tanking. Even though Archers can tank with LA, that is because their ranged attacks force the boss to attack in pure magic. And since LA has a decent magic defense, they take less damage than if they were in LA getting hit with melee and magic (like an Assassin). And please don't tell me that I "just don't know my class." I have taken a lot of time that I could have spent getting an uber high level to practice and learn. And don't forget that there isn't just ONE way to play a class. HA venos are a prime example of this. And the Fist BMs used to be called fail until they ended up killing everyone. There may just be a misunderstanding from word usage, and I mean no offense by this post.

<.< I can get very opinionated and arguementative...

Well, I think then that you may have misunderstood me. No, we are not built for tanking, and we never should if we have the choice. However, if the tank dies and there isn't a Blademaster/Barb to take his place, we are next in line and better step up to it. I would never endorse an Assassin taking up the position as tank willingly. However, we must be able to if necessary. If we can't, that is when we have to be able to lure the boss away as far as possible so that the Cleric can revive any who died. If we can Shadow Escape to reset the boss after, then we do. If we die, then that is just us fulfilling our duties, as we are the most likely to get away and survive, being we can have a variety of speed skills other classes don't have.

Asheera - Raging Tide

SoulWispher - Sanctuary wrote: »

Damage Dealer?
Nope,axe BM of same level deals equal or more damage than me,not to talk about endgame Fist BMs(>.< )

rofl, think you confuse damage per hit (DPH) with damage per second (DPS) here. Axe BMs maybe hit harder or similar but a lot slower than daggers (or fists for that matter)

I steal aggro from axe BMs without even trying. Also killed a mob while 2 BMs jumped on another (in bh59) of same type, and I killed it faster.

Heck I usually steal aggro from barbs even if a few levels above me, if I do one of my nuking combos (of course with Wolf Emblem active):

- wait 245+* chi > double spark > Inner Harmony > Power Dash
- wait full chi > double spark > Rising Dragon Strike > Subsea Strike > Inner Harmony > Power Dash

(chi gaining skills ftw b:cute)

*number depends on your inner harmony level, 245 is for level 1. I have Harmony on level 4 right now so I need less, 230.

2nd combo will also help out the rest with DPSing, and the tank to hold aggro also, but I still steal it. I love Shadow Escape though :P

SoulWispher - Sanctuary

True that Axe BMs are slower,but also true is that they got lots of AoE attacks and with the HA armor they can take many more mobs than us at once,AoE em and you got the higher damage.
With all the equip filled with Garnets I can take 2 or max 3 phy mobs on me thus no matter how much damage my AoE deals(The 8 secs cooldown one is quite nice,still don't have the other one),it will be less than a BM AoE Vs 10 mobs.

And yes,im comparing to BMs because this is a competitive game is natural to compare each others and BM/Barbs are the most similar class to us,not talking about they can be buffed with Bloodpaint....

(btw im 59 Spirit-Farming Exp-Infusing while I get all the skills I need(And learn to use em))

Anyway,maybe we aren't just made for that I guess

Bladed_Tony - Raging Tide

But now,I start to wonder,what excactly I should be good at?

Very plain and simple u are a damage dealer.. no more no less.. assassins (like fist bms) are made for 1 on 1.. very quick dps and high crits especially when use ur crit increase skill.. And are sometimes very essential to a squad running a TT or doin a boss run.. At times u might steal aggro and that proves how much dps u are doin..

while the only decent debuff I have is the Rib Strike which is good indeed but not sure how much it is

Rib Strike is a very good skill for both PvE and PvP.. PvP: when u are fighting a BM or barb, especially if the bm is using axes, makes their attacks much slower and less likely for them to kill u.. in PvE: can be used to slow the attacks of bosses making it less of a repair bill for ur tank and cleric..

so ya... lower levels are hard, but end game we get a lot stronger

The way i see it.. Assassins and Psychics were made for endgame or close to end game.. their skills make them very good and their crits are insane

and about comparing classes.. i would say a sin is a mix between a BM and a Archer..

Averian - Lost City

I am starting one now and it seems like this class. Is like a fist BM? Btw I stopped for a pretty long time so I am not sure what is going on. But from all these posts, it seems like it is like a fist BM but in a way different because of the skill and it is made mostly for boss runs and well, saving the squad during boss runs? More or less it does that job a little right?

Trawne - Lost City

Averian - Lost City wrote: »

I am starting one now and it seems like this class. Is like a fist BM? Btw I stopped for a pretty long time so I am not sure what is going on. But from all these posts, it seems like it is like a fist BM but in a way different because of the skill and it is made mostly for boss runs and well, saving the squad during boss runs? More or less it does that job a little right?

if you REALLY want a comparison then sins are like a fist BM with more crit, more DPH and slightly higher DPS at the cost of tanking ability.

sins can be really great tanks end game with blood paint and high end gear, especially as sage if the skills posted in another thread are correct.

i fully intend to use my sin as a tank/HH farmer


if you want to see how well a sin can do even with average gear, look for the post Killermate made about soloing BH79