HA Sin
Comments
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repeatttttttWaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »HA assassins are lame, they lack crit, dps, and attack speed, basically everything a normal assassin is made for. normal sins can tank just fine in LA, no need for crappy HA.
dont say fists either, because they have worse dps than daggers by a large amount
. ive done the math.
HA, fist, claws, etc on assassins is foolish.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
advice to fledgling archers:
Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.0 -
Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »and whats more, the atk rate on a dagger compared to fists are MUCH higher.
Actually you're wrong there. Fists are at a base 1.43 atk/s, whereas daggers are at 1.25 atk/s. That's 0.1 interval faster. In fact, one of the reasons people even use fists on sins is because Deicide is faster than any sin dagger in the game and it allows you to reach 5 APS much easier. Whether that's sane or not, I wouldn't know.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
even with faster attack speed, when both at +12, and 5.0, the math shows that daggers have a huge advantage over claws/fists. theyre significantly weaker, and gimping yourself for a less than pure build is even more dumb.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
advice to fledgling archers:
Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.0 -
WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »even with faster attack speed, when both at +12, and 5.0, the math shows that daggers have a huge advantage over claws/fists. theyre significantly weaker, and gimping yourself for a less than pure build is even more dumb.
Well, I'd guess that reasoning for claws is that getting that 5 APS is much cheaper.
Though yes, they'd probably still do much better as a BM or clawrcher.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Actually you're wrong there. Fists are at a base 1.43 atk/s, whereas daggers are at 1.25 atk/s. That's 0.1 interval faster. In fact, one of the reasons people even use fists on sins is because Deicide is faster than any sin dagger in the game and it allows you to reach 5 APS much easier. Whether that's sane or not, I wouldn't know.
personally, id rather improve on effectiveness as a class even if its more expensive rather then go an easy and cheap route and in the end be pure ****.
this is something that has been argued since even BEFORE tideborns were released. yet people still insisted on using fist/claws on a sin and saying they will do higher DPS rather then look at obvious facts. even right now people are still doing it. hell look at the title of this thread and the OP for pure hard evidence.
i will never understand the pure lack of common sense on these forums.0 -
yes. instead of getting stuck yourself at 2.x speed with daggers those players use deicide to go 5.0 the easy way. one reason is that you can perma spark. another reason its actually better dps since more time sparked and the multiply speed for dps is much better. of course at same attack speed (4/5 - perma spark) daggers are much better, nobody in the right mind would argue that. its not really needed to go HA but since you spend extra points on str and physical atk with fists is better with str you can use 1-2 pieces of HA for extra hp/pdef. they use this fist build for tanking TT/CoA/nirvana not pvp, just for farming purpose only. when you get the money for your end game goal then restat back to pure dex. now it comes in my mind the nien event where some archers, full LA, were using deicide instead of bow. obviously they were on top of the list.Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Well, I'd guess that reasoning for claws is that getting that 5 APS is much cheaper.
btw you can still use sin skills, its easy to switch weapon if you put them as a shortcut on your skills bar. if you really have extra atk speed, like all -int items and deicide you can probably use CoD and still have 5 aps with deicide which i think its impossible with daggers. for this require to have demon CoD0 -
Couri - Raging Tide wrote: »
Flame On all 'HA Sins are FAIL' peoples.
Survivability shows in lvl 90 barb full tt90 green in tiger.
ok i know alot of ppl think the idea of "thinking out of the box" is cool. like HA venos,sword wielding clerics, etc etc. Now onto the idea of a heavy armor sin. I tihnk purely this is kinda fail for a few reasons. while it is true an assassin is like a fist bm with Light armor a sin is considerably weaker with Heavy armor. Clammier aka Curse_ is a HA sin on the heavens tear server and this is my reasoning for fail. my alt bm _Crones_ was in pk and i walked outside of west gate. My alt bm is lv81 and had nothing on but npc'd lv60 HA plate ,leggings, and lv lvl41 helm. with under 3k hp Clammier could not one hit me and he even used Rising Dragon Strike. Seriously if he had been a LA user he'd had more dex and he coulda 1 hit me and done enough dmg for me to die 2-3 times over.
LA user P atk - http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=866e9c7a75d6f0bb
HA user p atk - http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=677696718c2bbc99
used the same shards for the armor all +10 the phys atk is showed the HA is demon sparked while the LA is sage sparked. this being the case id still go LA on a sin which i did on HT server. HA may have more hp but you need your armor to wear good daggers/other equips mean while a LA user would have this purely so any points the HA used in str for armor could be put in dex more extra atk power making a LA assassin more powerful. theres also the thing about sins using deicide claws which i personally think is crazy, reason i bring this part up is alot of LA/HA sins i see use claws as a primary weapon. If you a HA sin use deicide as a primary cuz the str you have powers it up for atk since claws use str for power and daggers use dex for power. LOL i dont care i just wanted to put it out there if your a heavy armor sin...LEVEL YOUR DAMN SKILLS!!! you may have 5.0 with claws or whatever but in pvp use your real weapon and use your damn skills correctly. Bloodpaint is good for thing and at lv10 it extends to 30 minutes which i think is a +. Focused mind is a must for either way of demon/sage sin. But if your a HA sin u better go demon and yes you better learn Demon Wolf emblem to get back some of the crit dmg you lose for not having the dex the LA user can have.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
When you counter, you don't let them cut you...
When you protect someone, you don't let them die...
When you attack, KILL!!!!
I've found my resolve.0 -
Hitman Legend have -0.05 not -0.1 interval
if you stopped before posting and read the post above yours you would know why sins go HA. do you think they go HA for survivability in pvp? lol, that would be the most fail reason to go HA0 -
Correct. Base attack, ☆Deicides hit for 498-673, while their dagger equivalent (☆☆Lunar Dissector) hit for 759-1138 and have far better bonuses for a sin than the claws.WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »even with faster attack speed, when both at +12, and 5.0, the math shows that daggers have a huge advantage over claws/fists. theyre significantly weaker, and gimping yourself for a less than pure build is even more dumb.
At +12, as you were mentioning, ☆Deicide hit for 1285-1460, while ☆☆Lunar Dissector hit for 1471-1850. Also note that the claws require level 95, while the daggers can be worn at 80.
Yet, taking aps into consideration, at +12, ☆Deicide hit for 2142-2433/s, and ☆☆Lunar Dissector hit for 1839-2313/s. Simply speaking dps, ☆Deicide are the better choice as far as Lunar weapons go.
If you want to compare ☆Deicide to another lvl 9x, -int dagger (which would be☆☆Hitman Legend), at +12 again, ☆Deicide still win. This time by 1006-1089 dps.
Now granted, this is assuming all the info in the PWdatabase is correct.Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Correct. Base attack, ☆Deicides hit for 498-673, while their dagger equivalent (☆☆Lunar Dissector) hit for 759-1138 and have far better bonuses for a sin than the claws.
At +12, as you were mentioning, ☆Deicide hit for 1285-1460, while ☆☆Lunar Dissector hit for 1471-1850. Also note that the claws require level 95, while the daggers can be worn at 80.
Yet, taking aps into consideration, at +12, ☆Deicide hit for 2142-2433/s, and ☆☆Lunar Dissector hit for 1839-2313/s. Simply speaking dps, ☆Deicide are the better choice as far as Lunar weapons go.
If you want to compare ☆Deicide to another lvl 9x, -int dagger (which would be☆☆Hitman Legend), at +12 again, ☆Deicide still win. This time by 1006-1089 dps.
Now granted, this is assuming all the info in the PWdatabase is correct.
lunar disector is a warsoul weapon...
pwdatabase is off on refines, it treats weapons all the same, when its well known fact axes/bows get better damage per refine; yet pwd treats claws/fists in same category.
more proof is off in the fact that lunar disector is G16, it would refine WAY higher than deicide.
1390-1691 is barrier thorn nirvana, a g13 comparable weapon.
1285-1460 is deicide, a lunar g13
1230-1508 is hitman legend, NOT counting its 2 max attack mods, blowing both deicide and barrier thorn out of the water if you're rich enough for rank 8
try pwcalc, its usually more accurate for checking refines. fact of matter, daggers will always > fists. fists on sin= stupid.0 -
Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »lunar disector is a warsoul weapon...
pwdatabase is off on refines, it treats weapons all the same, when its well known fact axes/bows get better damage per refine; yet pwd treats claws/fists in same category.
more proof is off in the fact that lunar disector is G16, it would refine WAY higher than deicide.
1390-1691 is barrier thorn nirvana, a g13 comparable weapon.
1285-1460 is deicide, a lunar g13
1230-1508 is hitman legend, NOT counting its 2 max attack mods, blowing both deicide and barrier thorn out of the water if you're rich enough for rank 8
try pwcalc, its usually more accurate for checking refines. fact of matter, daggers will always > fists. fists on sin= stupid.
i agree here but lenn Hitman legend is weapon of the sages weapon which is at least rank 6 to obtain.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
When you counter, you don't let them cut you...
When you protect someone, you don't let them die...
When you attack, KILL!!!!
I've found my resolve.0 -
the point was to show he was off in comparisons. you need rank 8 armor to reach 5 attacks with hitman, which makes them cacapoopoo unless you're rich.0
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Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »try pwcalc, its usually more accurate for checking refines. fact of matter, daggers will always > fists. fists on sin= stupid.
I was originally going to, but I've heard a lot of QQing about how inaccurate it was as well. Thanks for the correction.Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
its only inaccuracy is inability to calculate attack speed properly.Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »I was originally going to, but I've heard a lot of QQing about how inaccurate it is as well. Thanks for the correction.0 -
Ah. Good to know.Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »its only inaccuracy is inability to calculate attack speed properly.Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »its only inaccuracy is inability to calculate attack speed properly.Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »Ah. Good to know.
It's actually "proper", mathematically. It's just that the rounding in PWI is strange. Last I checked, there was no consensus whether the game even rounds APS down or up. If memory serves, there were even examples of both in the game, which would make it even stranger.
As for PWcalc, the current incarnation also has some issue with Tideborn TT weapons being Grade 0. Before that, they only had an incomplete list of them.
And Typhyse, you should know that Frost weapons require level 85, Lunars 95. And that the key argument for Deicides is reaching 5 APS cheap, even if it does less DPS, you'll still be better than clawarchers due to Bloodpaint and Subsea Strike.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
I knew it Lunar claws requiring 95, and Lunar daggers requiring 85 did not make sense. Yet another PWdatabase fail. We really need a mod in thereb:lipcurl. Heck, it still have the lvl 130 gear from when this game was p2p.Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »And Typhyse, you should know that Frost weapons require level 85, Lunars 95.
Bloodpaint heals according to damage dealt, not hits dealt. Aside from the constant heal from higher APS, DPS is better heal and damage output. Furthermore, I was arguing for the claws, not against then. So why are you telling me the point of the claw argument?Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »And that the key argument for Deicides is reaching 5 APS cheap, even if it does less DPS, you'll still be better than clawarchers due to Bloodpaint and Subsea Strike.Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
Typhyse - Sanctuary wrote: »I knew it Lunar claws requiring 95, and Lunar daggers requiring 85 did not make sense. Yet another PWdatabase fail. We really need a mod in thereb:lipcurl. Heck, it still have the lvl 130 gear from when this game was p2p.
Well, PWDB is PWDB.Bloodpaint heals according to damage dealt, not hits dealt. Aside from the constant heal from higher APS, DPS is better heal and damage output. Furthermore, I was arguing for the claws, not against then. So why are you telling me the point of the claw argument?
Um, what? Obviously a claw sin is better than a clawarcher, since they'll be wearing the same armor and have the same build and same DPS, so it comes down to support skills. And Bloodpaint pretty much dumps everything an Archer could offer.
Also, I find your comparison of Deicide and whatever else it was to be flawed. You cannot just compare the on-weapon damage and make an accurate conclusion from there, since the multipliers that come afterwards are different. That is, Deicides will have a smaller multiplier due to being based on str whereas daggers are based on dex. And of course, due to the same reason, their crit will also be different. And essentially, Wolf Emblem will be a plus factor for the daggers as well.
Also, there's the issue of APS. If you're comparing the same gear, then Deicides have at least -0.1 interval more, at most -0.2 interval. If you're unfairly favoring the daggers to get 5 APS on both, then your comparison is pointless, as daggers out-do Deicides from the start.I am Olba. Not Ol, not Baze nor Blaze. And even less would I go by Olblaze. Please, take a second to read a person's username.
If you see b:cute be sure to take a second, calm look at anything I said.0 -
LUNAR DISECTOR is the warsoul weapon, ghost cry thorn is the frost dagger.0
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Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »Well, PWDB is PWDB.
Um, what? Obviously a claw sin is better than a clawarcher, since they'll be wearing the same armor and have the same build and same DPS, so it comes down to support skills. And Bloodpaint pretty much dumps everything an Archer could offer.
Also, I find your comparison of Deicide and whatever else it was to be flawed. You cannot just compare the on-weapon damage and make an accurate conclusion from there, since the multipliers that come afterwards are different. That is, Deicides will have a smaller multiplier due to being based on str whereas daggers are based on dex. And of course, due to the same reason, their crit will also be different. And essentially, Wolf Emblem will be a plus factor for the daggers as well.
Also, there's the issue of APS. If you're comparing the same gear, then Deicides have at least -0.1 interval more, at most -0.2 interval. If you're unfairly favoring the daggers to get 5 APS on both, then your comparison is pointless, as daggers out-do Deicides from the start.
Word. I did not think to take stat multipliers into consideration.
---Edit---
However, you are saying daggers out-do Decides. That's what I said anyway; so your point in saying that was unfair was what...? All you did was make my case even stronger.
You have said this previously.Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »LUNAR DISECTOR is the warsoul weapon
I'm aware of this.Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »ghost cry thorn is the frost dagger.Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0 -
If you all think a sin with claws is dumb because its not a sins weapon and HA. THEN WHAT **** DO YOU THINK OF A BARB WITH LA & CLAWS? Everyone thinks that is cool, but its the same concept.
Not matter how much you cash shop you'll never be as good as the equally geared player that went the proper path.It's a game and I'm proud to be a stupid fail demon barb!
My EPIC Fail Demon Barb has 40k/48k HP and my stat points are as follows:
VIT 552 STR 310 DEX 60! b:surrender0 -
If an HA sin goes with claws/fists, I'm fine with that. At least they are taking full advantage of their build. They are essentially a pure auto-attacking, LA (or HA), claw/fist-BM with Bloodpaint.
I see nothing wrong with this.
Oh yeah, BTW: Necro...Demon_Troll: "takes on the appearance of an innocent archer but turns into a mindless idiot once you hear him speak"
~Spazz~0
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