IH vs SoR

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Me and a friend were discussing IH and the demon/sage effects, my friend saying sage>demon, me saying sage=demon. My argument was that if you need the extra 10% or whatever it is, at that point you would probably need to SoR. My friend thought spamming SoR was preposterous and ineffective. This went on for a little while, mainly about SoR's HPS vs IH's HPS, and I ended up creating this:

Zoho Sheet - IH vs SoR

Discuss.

P.S. Before anyone pulls the IH and SoR don't stack argument, look here.

/ gellus - Heavens Tear12

To spam SoR would burn so much MP it would be physically painful to watch.

Though not 89 yet, I have decided sage, because I want the 10% added HP. Get a few of those stacked and I can help DD a bit. Husband and I will go into FB89 and such alone, and the battles can get quite long if I don't help with a bit of damage.
True the MP regen would be nice if the barb did not have an MP charm. For my play style and my husband's equips that doesn't count.
If I don't pay attention for a few seconds, throwing out a stream is always a life saver for my husband, and after that can get back to the IHin.

Sage/Demon rejuvenation. Both are fine really, neither really give a boost in healing, other than the fact that it's level 11... (If I am wrong please correct me. As far as I know, sage gives you 30 more chi and demon gives target some added pdef for a bit)

As with any sage/demon argument, it depends on how you yourself play b:thanks

Magicgabe - Lost City

in my 1 1/2 years of playing PW, I not found a good use for SoR.

IH has

pro
- fast channeling
- HoT...meaning it heals every second giving you a high hps
- reasonable mana consumption
- reasonably strong

con
- no one-shot heal
- unable to lvl after lvl 51(except sage/demon)

SoR has

pro
-huge oneshot heal

con
- long channeling
- woopping MP consumption
- small HoT

note: for many reasons, large one shot heals are ineffective.

So, basically I'd say IH is a better deal over all.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

SoR is another useful heal but one of most understaminated cleric spells ever

disapproved by clerics that simply are not able to use it without killing tank - yes, when tank gets hard hits you need a bit of nerve and feeling to use it with it long channel time (in those cases, there is no way that ih could outheal dmg, so sor is a must- not a choice)

and often ppl dunno when to use it - it shud be used to heal big chunks of hp (yeah, not everybody gets that part)

i use it in 2 cases (with high hp barbs):

-on hard boss/few mobs when barb gets hard hits: till his hp is 'steable' combos 2ih/sor/1ih/2sor etc

-on easy bosses: 2ih+SoR or 2xSoR which allows me to DD 5-10times in a row between (it s very comfortable and 1/3 HP is still a lot)


spamming ih usualy takes more mp cuz very often clerics just overheal too much (i notice that 2/3 clerics i squad with overspam ih awfuly)


oh and btw
when tank die on ur IHs i doesnt mean he was too weak -it means that u should use SoR

Aadi - Lost City

When I decided demon/sage, I barely took into account the 99 skills like SoR...just because I have about a 5% chance of ever hitting that level.

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

SoR is another useful heal but one of most understaminated cleric spells ever

disapproved by clerics that simply are not able to use it without killing tank - yes, when tank gets hard hits you need a bit of nerve and feeling to use it with it long channel time (in those cases, there is no way that ih could outheal dmg, so sor is a must- not a choice)

and often ppl dunno when to use it - it shud be used to heal big chunks of hp (yeah, not everybody gets that part)

i use it in 2 cases (with high hp barbs):

-on hard boss/few mobs when barb gets hard hits: till his hp is 'steable' combos 2ih/sor/1ih/2sor etc

-on easy bosses: 2ih+SoR or 2xSoR which allows me to DD 5-10times in a row between (it s very comfortable and 1/3 HP is still a lot)


spamming ih usualy takes more mp cuz very often clerics just overheal too much (i notice that 2/3 clerics i squad with overspam ih awfuly)


oh and btw
when tank die on ur IHs i doesnt mean he was too weak -it means that u should use SoR

Actually, on easy bosses, I tend to prefer Purehearted (go ahead...laugh or call me a fail cleric but it works for me and I've yet to have complaints) over Stream. If the boss is easy enough (or I'm confident in the tank) where I'm comfortable enough to take pot shots at it, then it's usually easy enough that the extra half-second channel time won't make or break my ability to heal them. And at level 11 the one-shot heal is stronger than that of a level 10 Stream's (not counting the Healing-over-time). Even better, with the Sage variant it costs about half that of Stream. Perfect for a stingy Cleric like me. b:dirty

That being said...I do agree that Stream is an extremely useful tool for the active Cleric, and tends to shine at later levels. Especially if you're ambitious enough to go Demon and get the level 11 version. Granted, I wasn't one of those people. XD

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually, on easy bosses, I tend to prefer Purehearted (go ahead...laugh or call me a fail cleric but it works for me and I've yet to have complaints) over Stream

Yes Blessing is a decently powerful heal, it just takes too bloody long to cast. Oh the easier boseses I have a macro set up that just alternates IH and Wellspring. Harder bosses I just spam IH. I really only use stream when IH just isn't quite keeping up and I need that blast heal power. Spamming stream is too much of a mana burn to be effective.

At one point I was in a 2-3 run with a cleric that insisted on using only wellspring and chromatic healing beam. Needless to say, I spent the entire time keeping the tank alive. Was a scary run. Anyway, this made me wonder about why they would consider doing that, so I made a chart. It's a little easier to read than the above posted chart I think, although not as detailed on the MPS and stuf. still, it's good info.

Isaphet - Heavens Tear

Big combo for a tank that is nearly dead.

Wings of Protection + Stream.

Wings is an instant cast and should keep a decent tank alive long enough for stream to knock their hp back up. Not sure if you should ever really need this in a pvm situation, but there are always times when a poor squad will **** up (or a good squad pushes themselves to the absolute limit) and, if you play it right, you can pick up the pieces.

Also Demon Stream on a player when they are about to enter a dangerous spot in a TW can have awesome effects.
Wings > Stream > purify > IH > Wellspring > IH. TW heaven

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually, on easy bosses, I tend to prefer Purehearted (go ahead...laugh or call me a fail cleric...

pureheart is most understaminated cleric spell ever xD

Tojop - Dreamweaver

In my experience, stream of rejuvination does nothing that wellspring/ironheart can't do. That being said, good luck finding sage or demon ironheart blessing.

drmarley

Sage/Demon IH is very obtainable now. I got mine from a random book and Isaphet bought his for relatively cheap (~10 mil).

Demon Stream is the best heal in the game. That +pdef makes a very, very, very big difference when healing heavies. At end game, demon stream spam is very expensive... it's mana intensive though - but tbh so is spamming Demon IH.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

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mulanrouge

^ Agreed with Paramedic


SoR --> shines in later levels and is used more if something happens and you fall behind or there is a random aggro issue. WILL be very useful later on

IH/Well --> this combo is the ultimate and works most of the time


there are other combos with other heal skills and they are all boss/instance dependent. with 8 heal macros, 5 of them are for very specific bosses and or instances with varying heals based on aoes, hits and random aggro b:cute

the thing to remember though is SoR will eat your mp if you continually spam it and there really is no need. however, there are great uses for it and as such will come in handy in the more difficult instances (such as 3-3) when soloing as the healer.


Side Note --> i have all sage heal skills and i can assure you they can be a mp drain IF you are not sure of the person, place, boss, etc that you are healing for. once you learn it is easy to know when to heal and when not too. it also helps to know the tank and in higher instances (like 3-3), archers become your tank b:cute

Tojop - Dreamweaver

Paramedic, I think you misunderstood me. Maybe in territory wars having that extra healing is necessary, fair enough. But besides that?

I said stream does nothing that ironheart/wellspring can't do; I'm never in a spot where stream would keep someone alive but the other two wouldn't.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

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_Neve_ - Heavens Tear

<--- completly agrees with Paramedic

Ahira - Lost City

Its personal preference really and it can depend on how much -chan you have. SoR is a useful heal but I've gotten by fine with IH and WS so its still at lvl1 for me. b:surrender I dont really recall any pve failure's which would have been prevented by SoR. But similarly SoR could have been helpful in some situations where we might have been struggling a bit. (Cant really remember where tho- havent been in a pt wipe for 12months+ xD).

Looking at it from a different point of view- Paramedic suggested using SoR so you can also DD for several seconds. GG you crazy- why would you suggest wasting so much mana using SoR as well as DD'ing! b:shocked Tsk tsk you've brought shame to the rest of this mana conserving cleric community! b:angry

Demon SoR is very good though so I will get round to getting it at some point and back to the OP, yes you should get SoR -i'm sure you'll find uses for it.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

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Tojop - Dreamweaver

Actually, I got in the habit of using wellspring a lot when I started doing Frost Covered city. Ironheart just wasn't cutting it when I had to heal bms. Now I kind of use it out of convention when healing a barb and needing more than ironheart. Honestly I never even considered blessing of the purehearted, but I'm starting to.

NinnaXXX - Sanctuary

hmm, i use most of them time IH and welspring, SoR is more like an emergency healing for me when IH isnt enough, purehearted havent yet rly used it like only for chi when im waiting for squad cause of the low mp cost , only used it for easy bosses but very rarely .

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

sorry, there will be 4s for BofP and 5 s for 2WS (i counted cooldown wrong)

also fixed SoR vs IH and WS comparsion, tho conclusion stay same

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Problem is SoR and BoP is that sometimes, they don't wait for your heal. IH or Sor, it is up to your personal preference. I would agree with Tojop that until late game, theres nothing that IH won't take care of. I would also agree with Para that the SoR heals better than IH or IH WS combo.

My conclusion? Experiment yourself and stick to whatever you are comfortable with.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

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Tojop - Dreamweaver

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

conclusion is to use all skills according to specifications :P

This. Now if we could just convince the archers to use their damn metal debuff...

Raviste - Heavens Tear

Demon SoR is just amazing in 3-3 when you're the only cleric and have 3-4 BMs to heal. A real life saver at Emperor and Armageddon, especially when someone missed the spark at Arma and got oneshotted. That SoR cast is strong enough for the tanking BM's charm to not tick while I res others.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Raviste - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Demon SoR is just amazing in 3-3 when you're the only cleric and have 3-4 BMs to heal. A real life saver at Emperor and Armageddon, especially when someone missed the spark at Arma and got oneshotted. That SoR cast is strong enough for the tanking BM's charm to not tick while I res others.

Yea, Bm's charm is definitely more important.

Raviste - Heavens Tear

Lol, what? Event pots are dirt cheap, and I don't wear an MP charm. I keep my BMs happy, and I get constant 3-3s. What's wrong with that?

/Billion - Heavens Tear

I use both regularly in BHs and TTs and i must say having both is a life saver.

Sometimes there are positions you are put in where IH does not have enough power behind it to heal thru the bosses damage and get the tank back up. This is were SoR comes in.

Lets face it, unless you got 10+ weapons your heals arent great. If your tank ends up down near the 50% mark you DONT want to have him sitting there for long incase boss crits again and takes the barb down. What do you do? 2-3 IHs to get the barb steady for a few seconds then start the SoR. Yes, it does have a long cast but honestly, you dont want to be healing a 20k hp barb with IHs alone. Youll be there all day.

For example, today in my BH69s i was solo healing a 87 barb with 12-14k hp. Pole musta crit or something because barb was floating at around 90-100% hp then dropped to 60% or so.

Instead of stacking 20+ IHs to get him back up to full i just casted 3-4 IHs then threw him a SoR (level 8). Bam tank was back floating at around 100% and then i was able to keep him up there with just IHs.

I personally was very skeptical of SoR in the beginning. On a piece of paper it doesnt look like its a good skill. Take my word for it, its worth the high coin/spirit number for it.

I cant really see a reason for having it under 80. But once you enter bh69s/79s is when i started using it more.

Curls - Sanctuary

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually, on easy bosses, I tend to prefer Purehearted (go ahead...laugh or call me a fail cleric but it works for me and I've yet to have complaints) over Stream. If the boss is easy enough (or I'm confident in the tank) where I'm comfortable enough to take pot shots at it, then it's usually easy enough that the extra half-second channel time won't make or break my ability to heal them. And at level 11 the one-shot heal is stronger than that of a level 10 Stream's (not counting the Healing-over-time). Even better, with the Sage variant it costs about half that of Stream. Perfect for a stingy Cleric like me. b:dirty

That being said...I do agree that Stream is an extremely useful tool for the active Cleric, and tends to shine at later levels. Especially if you're ambitious enough to go Demon and get the level 11 version. Granted, I wasn't one of those people. XD

I have to say I use Purehearted with stacks of IH. I started doing this because I could not tell whether IH and SoR were canceling one another out. I was not able to get a straight answer from anyone in game. The combination of stacks of IH and Purehearted or WS depending on how much HP was needed to top off Barbarian has worked well but at 65 I have not hit any of the really hard bosses.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Curls - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have to say I use Purehearted with stacks of IH. I started doing this because I could not tell whether IH and SoR were canceling one another out. I was not able to get a straight answer from anyone in game. The combination of stacks of IH and Purehearted or WS depending on how much HP was needed to top off Barbarian has worked well but at 65 I have not hit any of the really hard bosses.

1. At level 65, Wyvern can be considered as one of the hard bosses.
2. Theres a tread in here disproving that IH and SoR doesn't stack.
3. Only use your purehearted if the tank has enough HP to last thru the channeling time.

__Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver

Curls - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have to say I use Purehearted with stacks of IH. I started doing this because I could not tell whether IH and SoR were canceling one another out. I was not able to get a straight answer from anyone in game. The combination of stacks of IH and Purehearted or WS depending on how much HP was needed to top off Barbarian has worked well but at 65 I have not hit any of the really hard bosses.

Jewelscalen, Feng/Wyvern, Kong and Krimson aren't hard at 65 and below? This is news to me. o_O