Effect of STA on EXP in Frost

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Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
edited February 2012 in Dungeons & Tactics
This was brought up in another thread and I thought we should look into it.
TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »
You're not suppose to STA on bosses in frost. Any archer that does that should be kicked from squad and pked lol. The exp you get from kills on mobs/bosses are often based on their hp, when you STA they get less hp and you also get less exp.

Its a pretty big chunk of exp the party looses if the archer starts using STA on the bosses in Frost actually.
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
Has it been CONFIRMED that the use of STA will permanently reduce the EXP you gain from a monster or boss? As in, honest to god confirmed. Not just "Well maybe might be"

I keep hearing a bunch of **** about this skill and everybody else seems to be getting different messages too. Some FC squads will threaten to kick me if I don't STA and others threaten to kick me if I do.

There's a split opinion, apparently, on whether STA permanently reduces EXP, or whether it will only reduce EXP gained if a mob dies while the debuff is still present.

So yeah has anybody actually sat down and done multiple testing on this to confirm how exactly this works? I'm getting sick of people in FC squads not being able to make their minds up and telling me to STA or not STA, and kicking me if I do or don't do it.

-edit-
To reiterate once again:

- Some people think STA will permanently reduce your EXP whether a boss/mob dies with or without the debuff, because the damage doesn't 'count'.

- Some people think STA will only reduce EXP on a boss/mob if they die while the debuff is still present.

The latter explanation would make more sense because if the boss dies with the debuff present, it's max HP is less and therefore you get less HP. However, even in 90+ squads, FC bosses aren't doomed to die in 30 seconds, so if the latter is true, you should be able to STA on any bosses that will die after 30 seconds, when the debuff disappears and bosses max HP returns to normal.
Celestyna - Heavens Tear wrote: »
I had an archer explaining this to another archer in squad recently and was showing the effect on a mob i can confirm at least with the skill still in effect the xp from the sharptooth'ed mob was a great deal less than the one which was full hp. (same exact mobs, same squad killed back to back. one with sharptooth one without)

We did not use it on any bosses and each squad if run with different levels will change the amount of xp you get. So its hard to say if it changes the xp if the skill is no longer in effect
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"Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
Post edited by Divine_Death - Dreamweaver on

Comments

  • Hhlolz - Harshlands
    Hhlolz - Harshlands Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    I have been seeing most of the EA's doing it, i have told them all not to use it cuz it takes away exp, a small % believed me and here is the thread finally.
    *Faildom*
    I don't need a Squad
    Level a Venomancer to 90.
    Aug 12, 2009
  • FitHitDShan - Sanctuary
    FitHitDShan - Sanctuary Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    This has been much discussed in the archer sub-forum. Here is a compelling test that indicates how the skill interacts with the game mechanics. You can pop out of that post to the thread itself for more discussion and links to other tests/examples.

    The long and short of it is that your experience for killing things is determined from the amount of damage your squad does and a sharptooth at the beginning of a fight means the thing dies after less damage has been dealt. For the mobs (including the harder mobs that some people seem to think are mini-bosses) in frost that is probably an issue. For the real bosses, it seems more of a toss-up. Most squads I've discussed this with prefer a quicker boss kill (less chance to mess up and quest experience unaffected anyway) so we do the skill.
    "?" IS my avatar.
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    You mean, this thread?
    Sharpened Tooth Arrow Explained

    Linked to this post as evidence.
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Thank you. So by that thread, STA on a FC boss is ok since killing it after STA should give you the same exp and you are not likely to kill them under 30 seconds.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Hhlolz - Harshlands
    Hhlolz - Harshlands Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Dude trust me, i have seen the proof myself, exp is lower with STA.
    *Faildom*
    I don't need a Squad
    Level a Venomancer to 90.
    Aug 12, 2009
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Hhlolz - Harshlands wrote: »
    Dude trust me, i have seen the proof myself, exp is lower with STA.

    I dunno...I mean, the other poster actually has evidence supporting their claim...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Brigid - Harshlands
    Brigid - Harshlands Posts: 1,332 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Thank you. So by that thread, STA on a FC boss is ok since killing it after STA should give you the same exp and you are not likely to kill them under 30 seconds.
    No. If you read carefully, it DOES reduce the boss EXP.
  • Divine_Death - Dreamweaver
    Divine_Death - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,491 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »
    No. If you read carefully, it DOES reduce the boss EXP.

    That person did have more exp from mob that didn't have STA, but s/he contributed that to mob gaining back HP during the wait for the STA to wear off.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Closing this for excess letter Q's" - hawk
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    1) No STA - Default XP

    2) STA first - Least XP

    3) Deal greater than or equal to 16% damage, then STA - Same XP as (1)

    HP reduction does not have any effect on amount of damage necessary in this case, so there is no XP reduction. 20% for Sage STA, etc.

    4) Attack but don't kill, putz around for 10 minutes, attack to kill - More than default XP.

    Target recovered some HP during those 10 minutes, and so you need to deal more damage than it's normal (max) HP to kill it. Not practical, but included for explanatory purposes.

    Note:

    It is unknown what is the mathematical relationship between HP Reduction % and XP reduction, as well as whether or not the squad size affects it. See here. I don't feel like reinstalling the game, so I'm not going to do the research.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    The reason an archer doesn't insta grab aggro after casting a skill that does 200k "damage" is that the "damage" inflicted by the debuff doesn't count. There never were rising red numbers for that and that hp just disappears into nothing.

    It's as if someone outside the party helped you do damage. You get less mob xp but xp from quests is of course unaffected.

    Now if you take a long time to kill something it regenerates hp allowing you to deliver more damage.


    Really its a bug as you should get full xp for killing a mob no matter how you kill it.
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The reason an archer doesn't insta grab aggro after casting a skill that does 200k "damage" is that the "damage" inflicted by the debuff doesn't count. There never were rising red numbers for that and that hp just disappears into nothing.

    Aggro? Tangential point?
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Aggro? Tangential point?

    Corroborative evidence.
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited March 2010
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    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Corroborative evidence.

    Ah, I see now. Apparently I had failed to make the necessary logical leap.
  • Kritical_x - Heavens Tear
    Kritical_x - Heavens Tear Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    iT'S just a myth. It does not reduce xp..Check claws... Maybe BM's should not be invited? as well as venos have same effect on Bosses. So re check what it's for? Maybe just faster kills. I have done both STA on mobs, and not STA i have always recived the same HP. I solo FC and recived the same XP STA'd or not STA'd so stop saying it does if you do not even play a freakin EA. So Stuff the arrow up your rear, and stop saying archers are bad to have in squad if we STA. Our BV will merk any HF any day. kthnxbai :3 b:pleased
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Props on Sig to Starchief From Sanctuary :) Thnx
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited January 2012
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    1) You're wrong, I just verified in FF as a result of your post.

    2) Necro.


    The only way to negate the XP loss is if you deal enough damage on your first and second hit that it exceeds 85% of the monster's HP. You then make back some of the XP, up to and including 100%. I'm not sure why it also includes the second hit; probably some lag thingy going on.

    If you don't believe me go in there and use a lower level bow and see.
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    1) You're wrong, I just verified in FF as a result of your post.

    2) Necro.


    The only way to negate the XP loss is if you deal enough damage on your first and second hit that it exceeds 85% of the monster's HP. You then make back some of the XP, up to and including 100%. I'm not sure why it also includes the second hit; probably some lag thingy going on.

    If you don't believe me go in there and use a lower level bow and see.

    No... he could be right. The exp that he would otherwise not get cause he sharp the boss could all be made back by his LACK of "killing" speed.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

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  • ILLeism - Heavens Tear
    ILLeism - Heavens Tear Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    2) Necro.

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  • krittycat
    krittycat Posts: 4,187 Community Moderator
    edited February 2012
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    Closed for necro.

    Sorry about the delay.b:surrender
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