Herc skills

kirastarmoon

some ppl say stun skill on herc is useless, and they say get flesh ream instead to hold aggro
that a good idea or?

SupaRoyalty - Lost City

kirastarmoon wrote: »

some ppl say stun skill on herc is useless, and they say get flesh ream instead to hold aggro
that a good idea or?

bash b:victory

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

You want to replace pounce with bash I did at lvl30.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Welll.....

It's not as clear cut as most people say, in my opinion.

Pounce, used properly, really really rocks.
Stun is a great thing to have - it makes catching lured mobs much safer (especially with ranged mobs) and its damage increase from the enhanced attack speed isn't to be sneezed at either.

It makes losing control of a couple of mobs (due to careless use of an AOE, say) safer, since you can stun them and regain aggro quickly whilst they can't attack.
It is, in many ways, better than roar since the stun is instant - where roar won't cause them to switch target until after their attack cycle completes.


But.

It doesn't hold aggro very well on a long fight. And for that reason, at level 82, I switched to bash.
The increased damage output is icing - and although it took me a while to get the hang of it, it actually makes AOE use a bit safer, since I can see when the bash has gone down (and once a monster has been bashed, the aoe won't steal it)

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Depends on what you use your herc for and what your role in the squad is.

If you are always the "other veno", than keeping pounce or getting Roar would be more beneficial, since it would help you with crowd control (pounce), or to regain aggro in case the main tank goes down or you need to get aggro from other mobs (Roar).

If you are going to be the main tank for a party, and mostly you will be running BHs/FBs, than bash would be a better choice, since it would hold aggro better on those mobs/bosses.

If you are going to mostly party and tank <?> mobs, than it does not matter since reflect + pet attack is more than enough to hold aggro. You could keep pounce (cheapest option), put a bash for extra damage, put claw for extra damage (expensive) or blessing of the pack for extra HP (expensive)

If you mostly solo, it does not matter either, since you will be mostly spam healing, although having pounce/roar would be nice to get mobs off you if you mess up.

Other alternatives include putting "blessing of the pack" to increase the HP of the herc, which usualy enables the herc to tank some bosses that otherwise would be impossible. Although if you pretty much only solo, you may want to look into the skill CLAW, which increases the damage of the herc, which would make a difference if you are spam healing.

/ gellus - Heavens Tear12

Depends on what you like.
I never liked the pounce so I changed it to bash. Works just fine for me.

SeaStorm - Heavens Tear

Started with roar....worked great when I was second/lower lvl veno....in 80s started getting more requests were I was the solo veno...ran into aggro holding issues with having higher lvls in squad. Changed out to bash, no more issues

Note: if you and squad are higher than the mobs/lvl # boss you're killing...anyone can and will steal aggro off herc...including waiting to hit till boss is at 75% hp. Granted now that I'm at the last lvl for my current BH sets if my squads are carefull the herc will retain the aggro...

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

flesh-ream is pvp, bash is pve
FR does less damage than bash because of the longer cool down, and doesn't generate as much aggro

FR's bleed effect has less damage reduction than the other pet skills in pvp.

pounce, the stun generals minimal aggro, as there is no damage done, the increased attack speed will generate some aggro. the biggest problem that i have with pounce is when you are dealing with mobs that run. examples: archers in 1-x, 79, most of the mobs in eden, sori's in 69. If you stun a mob that runs after the first melee hit or 2, its runs are reset and will run again after stun wears off. if you intend on taking any of these dungeons with your herc, pounce will do more harm than good.

kirastarmoon

thx all for the info , it's helps me allot b:cute

AngelOfLies - Heavens Tear

well i konw a veno who said flesh ream is better than bash, becuase its a aggro skill and adds blead to the mob. personally i think roar on a herc is a horrible idea, i'd either get bash or claw on a herc. bash is a nice aggro hold, and claw increases the attack of the herc. going from what my veno uses, glacial walker which has bash lvl 1 and icicle lvl2. i find that if i wait awhile b4 casting out my heavy dmg skills he holds aggro nicely, or recently ive been hitting ironwood as a starter, then casting both bash and icicle, deals 70% more dmg and holds aggro nicer in the start.

Gasoline - Lost City

kirastarmoon wrote: »

some ppl say stun skill on herc is useless, and they say get flesh ream instead to hold aggro
that a good idea or?

For pve i say use Bash. It helps holding and taking agro back, far better than any other skill and it also does good dmg.

I often use 2 Hercules in TT. One has Bash and mine still has Flesh Ream. The lvl 97 herc with Bash always gets agro first if tank dies or agro resets. Even tho my herc is 3 lvls higher.

Flesh Ream holds agro to, but its really only better than Bash if youre planning on using herc for pvp as well as pve. I still have Flesh Ream on my herc since i use to do cube. It helps a lot in rooms with open pvp.

But if you already have a land pet for pvp or not planning on doing any pvp at all - just get Bash.

Pounce is kinda pointless if you're gonna farm, not like you can stun bosses in TT <.< Some venos use Roar, i guess is useful if you wanna grab agro quick if some archer in party grabs it. But with Bash you rarely loose agro in the first place in TT.

I guess if you're tanking FBs Roar will be more useful since you will loose agro all the time.

HimeJunsei - Sanctuary

My question is:

BASH or CLAW ?

Bash at lvl 5 = 200% dmg
Claw at lvl 5 = +30% dmg
BASH is a cast type skill dependant on cooldown, CLAW is a passive skill (1hr).

Now I have Bash atm and I'm still not happy. So I took a look at how many hits herc does before BASH triggers again. I noticed normally 6 hits, then bash triggers, sometimes 7 hits.

So then i thought this:

6 normal, hits, 7th hit is BASH
1500/1500/1500/1500/1500/1500/3000 = 12.000
and then did math on CLAW:
1900/1900/1900/1900/1900/1900/1900 = 13.300

Then extended math more, changing number of hits before BASH occurs:

7 normal, hits, 8th hit is BASH
1500/1500/1500/1500/1500/1500/1500/3000 = 13.500
and CLAW:
1900/1900/1900/1900/1900/1900/1900/1900 = 15.200

5 normal, hits, 6th hit is BASH
1500/1500/1500/1500/1500/3000 = 10.500
and CLAW:
1900/1900/1900/1900/1900/1900 = 11.400

4 normal, hits, 5th hit is BASH
1500/1500/1500/1500/3000 = 9000
and CLAW:
1900/1900/1900/1900/1900 = 9500

3 normal, hits, 4th hit is BASH
1500/1500/1500/3000 = 7500
and CLAW:
1900/1900/1900/1900 = 7600


so.... do i get claw or not?

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

HimeJunsei - Sanctuary wrote: »

My question is:

BASH or CLAW ?

Bash at lvl 5 = 200% dmg
Claw at lvl 5 = +30% dmg
BASH is a cast type skill dependant on cooldown, CLAW is a passive skill (1hr).

Now I have Bash atm and I'm still not happy. So I took a look at how many hits herc does before BASH triggers again. I noticed normally 6 hits, then bash triggers, sometimes 7 hits.

So then i thought this:

6 normal, hits, 7th hit is BASH
1500/1500/1500/1500/1500/1500/3000 = 12.000
and then did math on CLAW:
1900/1900/1900/1900/1900/1900/1900 = 13.300

Then extended math more, changing number of hits before BASH occurs:

7 normal, hits, 8th hit is BASH
1500/1500/1500/1500/1500/1500/1500/3000 = 13.500
and CLAW:
1900/1900/1900/1900/1900/1900/1900/1900 = 15.200

5 normal, hits, 6th hit is BASH
1500/1500/1500/1500/1500/3000 = 10.500
and CLAW:
1900/1900/1900/1900/1900/1900 = 11.400

4 normal, hits, 5th hit is BASH
1500/1500/1500/1500/3000 = 9000
and CLAW:
1900/1900/1900/1900/1900 = 9500

3 normal, hits, 4th hit is BASH
1500/1500/1500/3000 = 7500
and CLAW:
1900/1900/1900/1900 = 7600


so.... do i get claw or not?

Bash, 300k, claw 30mil+. Claw will not generate aggro, since its a buff.

So depends on what you want to use your herc for.

Krouse - Harshlands

sorry to interrupt in this thread but it seems as it fits here better then starting a new topic.

I do agree on bash to hold aggro since the skill itself increases aggro instead of only the higher damage aggro holding. i can get aggro back on boss when i bash it, but can't get it back that easily just by damage

i'm using my veno pure PvE doing solo BH's with my girlfriend as an assassin and TT solo runs.
Would anyone advise me getting blessing of the pack instead of another skill? if so what kind of skill would you drop for it? drop bash or one of the mdef/pdef buffs?

Solandri - Heavens Tear

HimeJunsei - Sanctuary wrote: »

so.... do i get claw or not?

Been tried before. You gain DPS but you lose aggro holding ability. Be sure that's what you want before you spend the money on Claw for it.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=249742

Krouse - Harshlands wrote: »

Would anyone advise me getting blessing of the pack instead of another skill? if so what kind of skill would you drop for it? drop bash or one of the mdef/pdef buffs?

Without the mdef/pdef buffs, the herc is just a glorified cub/armored bear with high attack. You don't want to lose those skills. The herc's damage, while high, is nothing spectacular. And the reflect damage helps it considerably at holding aggro. So you don't want to remove that either.

If you can afford a Bless scroll, then you can afford to buy another herc. Remove pounce on the second herc and put Bless in its place. Use the Bash herc for regular grinding. Use the Bless herc for bosses which can one- or two-shot your Bash herc.

tweakz

Claw would be better placed on a DD pet like Varicose Scorpion, Dark Wanderer, or Ranged Tanker.