BH29: A new gig?

Aaragontium - Sanctuary

When I joined a BH29 squad, I was told that one of the members needed 5k from each squad member. Somehow I knew this wasn't for wine, so I told this leader that clerics don't pay for the privilege of running BH's.

The leader eagerly offered to pay my fee. I didn't think anymore of it. The squad had two barbs.

We go through the dungeon, get ready to kill Qingzi, and the veno tells us 'its time to pay up'. This level 60 veno is warning the barbs not to steal agro from him. I'm thinking WTF?

So finally I speak up and tell everyone "I'll heal the barbs. Someone kick that veno."

With the things that PWE is doing to this game, I should be more supportive of the entrepreneurial spirit. I guess my biggest problem is that while this guy is charging for his Qingzi killing service, I have to spend real money on a charm to keep everyone alive.

Was I too harsh? The veno only PMed me once after he left

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

For what was that 5k from each squad member ?
Did she also paying that fee ? (but she want to tank ?)
That venomancer has enough lv (60) there no need to heal her, her pet can tank easily.
(quingzi right)
I guess that 5k from each squad member actually for paying her ? o.0

Baruna - Lost City

I'm a bit confused but.... the veno was the one demanding payment?

If you are talking about MP charm, you DON'T need one for Qingzi in order to keep the tank alive.

Nieka - Harshlands

lol i wouldnt pay someone to waste my charm lol.

dont worry though cause a cleric can solo a bh29 a little later in the lvl's anyway b:chuckle

Aaragontium - Sanctuary

My understanding was that the level 60 veno was charging everyone in the squad to kill Qingzi for them. Without a cleric in the squad, the veno would have got his coin.

Roseary - Sanctuary

Aaragontium - Sanctuary wrote: »

My understanding was that the level 60 veno was charging everyone in the squad to kill Qingzi for them. Without a cleric in the squad, the veno would have got his coin.

got her* coin?

Either way, BH's are made to where a squad of similar level can tackle it easily no problem if they can work together. Qingzi squads are 40's-49's and a 4-6 person group can take it easily. You weren't to harsh on that Veno, you were fair protecting your coins/charm and your fellow players.

Flickerfae - Sanctuary

Charging for the "service" of killing stuff as a squad is ridiculous. Maybe if it was a difficult boss, and the rest of the squad just sat by and watched the one solo... maybe.

And a Veno? A barb, I can understand (repairs), and clerics can use a bit of extra coin for their mp charms, but a veno? They don't go through mp nearly as quickly as other magic classes, and, if they play right, they never have to repair anything. What, was she earning Herc money by scamming lowbies? b:question

You did the right thing. Honestly, I think I'd have called BS the first time payment for running an unwined BH was mentioned. Good for you.

hilltrot

5,000 gold is cheap. My opinion - Why bother even charging? If I want to grind gold on my 39 veno I can easily get 100,000 gold in half an hour without the hassle of dealing with anybody. A level 60 veno probably felt that their time was being wasted but was going to help out. Probably charged the fee so that they wouldn't take her for granted.

There is no way you would have to heal the barbarians, or anyone for that matter, if they weren't incredibly stupid and incapable of knowing how not to steal aggro.

Since the barbs weren't that smart, I assume that you were unable to kill the boss. ( You didn't say.)

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver

hilltrot wrote: »

5,000 gold is cheap. My opinion - Why bother even charging? If I want to grind gold on my 39 veno I can easily get 100,000 gold in half an hour without the hassle of dealing with anybody. A level 60 veno probably felt that their time was being wasted but was going to help out. Probably charged the fee so that they wouldn't take her for granted.

There is no way you would have to heal the barbarians, or anyone for that matter, if they weren't incredibly stupid and incapable of knowing how not to steal aggro.

Since the barbs weren't that smart, I assume that you were unable to kill the boss. ( You didn't say.)

If you feel your time is being wasted, you don't go. Simple as that.

And I'd assume that with a Cleric and 2 Barbs (along with other peeps probably), SOMEONE would be capable of tanking the boss that wasn't the Veno. Hell, Cleric can solo it at high 3x if they have decent gear, plenty of pots and some time to kill.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

This Veno is purely running the FB for you in like another rpg I play.When this happens you do nothing except tab the pillar and let the Veno do all the work.

Aadi - Lost City

Mysti, it's BH not FB. Unlike FB, the veno doesn't get anything out of it.

As for the OP...you made a mistake when you said "clerics don't pay for the privilege of running BH". No one should pay for the privilege of running BH29. Class has nothing to do with that.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

hilltrot wrote: »

5,000 gold is cheap. My opinion - Why bother even charging? If I want to grind gold on my 39 veno I can easily get 100,000 gold in half an hour without the hassle of dealing with anybody. A level 60 veno probably felt that their time was being wasted but was going to help out. Probably charged the fee so that they wouldn't take her for granted.

There is no way you would have to heal the barbarians, or anyone for that matter, if they weren't incredibly stupid and incapable of knowing how not to steal aggro.

Since the barbs weren't that smart, I assume that you were unable to kill the boss. ( You didn't say.)

i dont see anywhere that the barbs werent smart. Its not hard for a barb to keep aggro from similar levels in the 40s or to tank qingzi. I mean I tanked qingzi multiple times for bh in a squad of 4x (1 cleric) with a freakin fist bm only using single spark to up my dps.

Agree with whoever it was that said if its a waste of time dont go. Theres no reason to charge for bh29 if you dont want to do it dont.

Sylredrae - Sanctuary

I agree with Lady... sometimes it's hard to say no, but if you don't want to go, you don't have to. Plus, I find that charging everyone 5k for bh29 (which is so short it's not worth using wines) is ridiculous. Being charged for wine for bh69 and up isn't something I like, but there is a good reason for it. That veno had nothing like that backing her up, except perhaps greed. I don't think you were too harsh with her, and I hope you still succeeded in killing Qingzi. ^^

Choze - Dreamweaver

LMAO, thanks for this story, made me laugh anyway. You simply found someone hopin to exploit noobs!

Lets face it, venos can run that bh at absolutely no cost. If people felt like donating for the help, so be it. However I really can't see this as a smart way to spend time with a 60+ veno to make moneyb:laugh

If ya wanna help, help. Charging noobs is like taking candy from children though IMO.........

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Ok.It is BH not an Fb but still if a Veno asks for money then let them do all the work and you just do nothing.You could always leave.

Jlora - Sanctuary

Newbie veno b:chuckle jejejeje

hilltrot

Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i dont see anywhere that the barbs werent smart. Its not hard for a barb to keep aggro from similar levels in the 40s or to tank qingzi. I mean I tanked qingzi multiple times for bh in a squad of 4x (1 cleric) with a freakin fist bm only using single spark to up my dps.

You don't see how needlessly stealing aggro and forcing a much lower level cleric to heal you and waste spirit charm isn't smart? When you could go get popcorn, do nothing, and watch the show instead?

? ? ?

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Wouldn't want to group with you.

XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver

hilltrot wrote: »

You don't see how needlessly stealing aggro and forcing a much lower level cleric to heal you and waste spirit charm isn't smart? When you could go get popcorn, do nothing, and watch the show instead?

? ? ?

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Wouldn't want to group with you.

You don't see how the OP, the Cleric in question, was the one ENCOURAGING them to take aggro and boot the Veno in question? Or how the Veno was, on the other hand, discouraging such action so they could justify wrestling what you've already ADMITTED to be a pittance of coin from a bunch of lowbies (assuming OP is to be believed of course)?

Even worse, you don't see how you yourself could be considered to be encouraging people to stand around like a bunch of lazy twits while 1 or 2 people do the work, when one should be taking the chance to actually stop and learn how their class works in a more simplified group environment before taking on situations where their inability to act and react could cause a party wipe?

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Wouldn't want to group with you. b:surrender

Maragon - Dreamweaver

hilltrot wrote: »

You don't see how needlessly stealing aggro and forcing a much lower level cleric to heal you and waste spirit charm isn't smart? When you could go get popcorn, do nothing, and watch the show instead?

? ? ?

? ?

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Wouldn't want to group with you.

You dont see how healing is a clerics main job in a squad? You didnt see that the OP's cleric was 41 last time he updated his sig and that a 4x can level almost daily off only BH and that a 4x squad is more than sufficient to blow through fb29? If the cleric is using a spirit charm thats his decision and I'm not goin to flame him for it but it really isnt necessary. The only time after the free one at level what 5 that i used a charm was a mp charm to tank and heal the OHT bosses in the swamp and that was with a free one from the treasure quests. You dont see that all a cleric should need to heal for qingzi is a few mana pots if the DDs are doin a good job?

You dont see how posting on a blank avatar implies you dont want to claim what you post?

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Wouldn't want to group with you. mmkthnxbai

back on the actual topic again... if someone asks to charge for bh29 find a new group.

Aaragontium - Sanctuary

@Aadi: You are correct. A very arrogant statement on my part. I did lack context at that point.

The two barbs in the squad were rolling along with the situation. Since there were no alpha issues between them, there was no doubt that the BH could be completed (which it was).

Mostly, I thinik I was insisting that things be done the way the always have.

hilltrot

First the poster gave little context. He didn't say what level cleric he was playing, just that he was playing one. When that sig was updated - who knows. Can't even tell if it's correct. He's also playing two clerics - which one was it? What level were the Barbs? Who knows? Hey, he recently posted and he still won't say.

But I do know the following.

1. He joined a group and was told that some one wanted 5,000 gold to play a dungeon.

2. He agreed to stay with the group despite knowing this. The barbs agreed to this as well.

3. The veno was there to expedite their journey to the last encounter.

4. The cleric agreed to stay with this party until the very end, then suddenly flip-flopped and changed his mind at the last encounter. In short, he and the barbs lied.

5. The cleric and the barbs didn't mind getting the free ride up to the final boss. So the "holier than thou" belief of you gotta earn your level doesn't hold water. If the cleric really believed that he would have not stayed with or joined the party to begin with. Yes, in WoW, many times I would instantly apologize and quit before an instance started if the party was being leveled by a higher up. Sorry, I don't take the holier than thou stance. To each their own. (I do believe in keeping your word if you can.)

6. The implication was that the veno was kicked, he did not leave because he wasn't paid.

7. The veno was warning the barbs not to steal aggro at the last encounter which means that they probably stole aggro before then and (s)he didn't want them getting killed. The implication throughout this is that the barbs are a much lower level than the veno. A level 60 barb could easily solo this. They've been laying back for dozens of fights up to the final encounter. Why not wait one more?

At this point I do need to clarify. There is nothing specifically said about the barbs doing something stupid. I made above paragraph's assumption that the barbs must have been stealing aggro to necessitate the veno's warning. They must have been either a really low level or really bad to feel to need to pay a character 30 levels higher to do a dungeon.

I also wish to apologize for wording the last part of my last message in such a way as to cause a couple of people to flame me.

But think about it, you invite someone to a party or join a party agreeing to a set of terms. At the very end, you break the agreement. Not because of some real life event intruding on the game like your kid just broke his arm and you gotta bring him to the hospital.

No! You break it because you don't want to have to fulfill you side of the bargain. You don't stop and tell the venomancer, "Sorry, here's your pittance of gold, we'd like to try the final encounter ourselves and learn our classes. Please stand back let us try to take this guy ourselves."

Their response to the veno is "Thanks for the ride, but you should have asked for your money first." Then one of them runs to a public forum and starts bad-mouthing the veno for asking for terms which the cleric and barbs agreed to. (Until they found "Jesus" and repented of their sinning ways.)

And people on this forum are cheering this guy on?

They're like the guys who marry a woman, use them and their family to help put themselves through med school and then divorce in a no-alimony state as soon as soon as the internship is over. But he doesn't stop there. He runs to the local "church" and tells everyone how she was a **** for having sex with him before they were married. Totally without class.

So yes, I assumed the worst when it came to the barbs' and cleric's ability. I think I have good reason to believe they aren't that great. I'm not taking my cleric or veno or any other character into a party with people who think it's alright to kick someone at the final encounter.

I will not cheer this guy on.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

hilltrot wrote: »

Semi-coherent ramblings

you are right we dont know when that sig was last updated for all we know this cleric was lvl 48-49 doing this bh. yea he has 2 clerics but according to the sig one is 14 what is that lvl doin in bh29? just a bit of common sense says that he was at bare minimum lvl 40 when he did this considering as he had said it was a BH run

Barbs much lower? and a lvl 60 veno being 30 levels higher? what in the world are lvl 30 barbs doing in bh29? if its tabbed then the veno was doing a tabbed run and had no reason to charge then either.

should they have kept their word? yea. but if the veno was so demanding of the money why didnt they get it before starting?

Aaragontium - Sanctuary

There seems to be some question regarding my level.
I was running my FB. My level was appropriate. I evaluated this run as one that could be completed. Had the run been a failure, I would not have been so eager to come here and talk about it, no? Was then and still am a Level 46 cleric farming my full skill set.

Yes the barbs and I got a free ride - if you could call it that. From all appearances, everyone was doing their job. Although a higher level, there was no obvious indication that the veno was carrying the squad. I was certainly not coasting my way through with my feet on the dashboard. I didn't spend a lot of time observing the veno. My job is to watch the barbs.

I truly do not know if the veno actually got kicked, or if she left the squad due to lack of payment.

I believe the warnings about not stealing agro to the barb were to facilitate the veno in fulfilling her contractual obligations. With the barbs taking agro, and a cleric there to heal them, it would have been hard to justify the payments made. I never really heard the details of the agreement made but am fairly certain the service was for killing Qingzi.

The barbs were well mannered. Had they been competing with the veno, or competing with each other, the situation could have been very different. A dead cleric is the first indication of squad issues. They were also level appropriate. This is the primary reason they needed to be the ones to complete the run. It was, after all, their run.

The squad did have an agreement with the veno. And that issue could have been pressed. I do not know if any of the members paid the veno or not. I did sense some reluctance in paying from the other team members, but am unable to provide anything more specific on that. The veno never provided me with any details of the agreement. The veno never pressed the agreement with me, only explained that she was helping them out, and then resorted to name calling.

I have to wonder how this scenario got set up in the first place. I suspect that the veno and the squad leader were working together. Perhaps the two of them formed the initial squad. But how could the others have come to such a squad? Were they so scared that there would be no cleric that they felt they had no other choice? Or did they simply see that there was value in an implied guarantee for a successful run?

This choice is much like buying wine for BH29. Who here would support the decision to do that? Split, the costs would be similar.

On the subject of BH29. To me, this is the training ground for much of the game yet to come. Bad habits learned here will be with you for a while.

Consider the 29 run of 4x players with a 5x Blademaster who generously agreed to help out. This person then charges everything he can, steps aside, and watches to see how many people die. Who is at fault here? The kid LHAO at the keyboard? What of the squad members who silently cross their fingers hoping the kid is done having his fun?

The success of the run is everyone's responsibility. The barbs need know what they can and cannot do. The people moving on from BH29 need to know what is and what is not normal or acceptable.

At the end of the run when someone says "I need 2 more times", what do you do? Do you lecture them on the merits of reverse stacking their BH's, or scold them for not reading the forums? How about the troublemaker mentioned above? Do you take the time to point out how wrong he is for being bad?

In this one situation, I had the chance to fix things without having to stand on a soap box. Although not perfect, I believe my actions demonstrated characteristics important for success in the game.

Rabid_Cleric - Harshlands

Blah blah blah too much Q_Q

Just pay the veno already! It will prolly be cheaper anyways, with all the pot comsuption and repair bills.

Narinika - Harshlands

i'm a lvl 60 veno but i can't solo bh 29 i don't have a herc but i have a magnite

Sarieanna - Raging Tide

LOL?? b:chuckle

Charging money to run BH/FBs...simply LOL. If it was wined or one of those hard ones [to pay for repairs, etc] then I'd understand.

But 29? LOL b:chuckle

XDarkJessX - Lost City

me smells a trollb:angry
either the veno or the cleric but somebody is trollingb:shocked